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Does 120hz give FPS gamers online an advantage? if the game supports 120 fps

Aquinus

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#26
On a 120hz display theoretically you see the next frame about 8.3 milliseconds faster than at 60hz. The only problem is that your braining isn't running any faster and your reaction time isn't going to be improved at all so regardless of how quickly it displays the next frame, it won't give you an "edge" in FPS games. It will look smoother, less ghosting might help, but that is about it. But when push comes to shove, it's a matter of skill and practice more than what hardware you're using.
 
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#27
Tearing is an artefact of having vsync off, not the framerate being rendered, so yes you will see it. Using triple buffered vsync gives you the best of both worlds, where tearing is eliminated and lag minimised.
The Triple Buffering you have in your Control Panel is only for OGL ;) The program you used to be able to Force D3D Triple Buffering doesn't work anymore(I can't think of the name of iit, Need Sleep:ohwell:) DXOverrider?:confused:

But alot more games have it "baked in"
 

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#28
@Phusius: are you thinking again of getting rid of your 2560.1440 for a 120hz 1080?
No, I sold my 1440p on Ebay for $30 more than what I paid for it because ran in to some financial issues. Picked up the third best rated monitor off Newegg.com an Acer for $129.99 free ship no tax, at least until I get back on my feet financially someday. Honestly It is not bad for an old non-LED, I like it so far.
 

qubit

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#29
The Triple Buffering you have in your Control Panel is only for OGL ;) The program you used to be able to Force D3D Triple Buffering doesn't work anymore(I can't think of the name of iit, Need Sleep:ohwell:) DXOverrider?:confused:

But alot more games have it "baked in"
Damn, I thought it worked with DX now? Maybe it doesn't, I'll double check it at some point.
 

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#30
No, I sold my 1440p on Ebay for $30 more than what I paid for it because ran in to some financial issues. Picked up the third best rated monitor off Newegg.com an Acer for $129.99 free ship no tax, at least until I get back on my feet financially someday. Honestly It is not bad for an old non-LED, I like it so far.
Acer FTW! Mine is sitting next to my bed ;)
 

qubit

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#32
A really good player on a 60Hz monitor is still going to pwn you even if you have a 4 gazillion Hz monitor.
Patience and practice makes you better and gives you the edge, not your monitor.
Just saying. ;)
Ya had to rub it in, didn't ya. :cry:

That's exactly what happens at our lan party. Some 13 year old boy pwns me every time and he's playing UT on some crappy laptop that's doing 20-40fps, while mine is doing a nice steady 60fps. I can nail him at times too, though. ;)

Just for a laugh, we swapped laptops and this predictably made my humiliation total! :laugh: It was the funniest thing you ever saw.

On top of that, he said he felt more comfortable on his laptop than mine. :wtf:
 
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#33
A really good player on a 60Hz monitor is still going to pwn you even if you have a 4 gazillion Hz monitor.
Patience and practice makes you better and gives you the edge, not your monitor.
Just saying. ;)
Not that I am a N00B PWNER!!111 by any means I haven't touched BF3 in 6 months not even to test out my 7970. But I ALWAYS have V-sycnh on. I bet if I turned ioff I would be WORSE because I am totally "tuined" to 60fps;)
 

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#34
I never touch V-Sync unless tearing is very noticable ,i can deal with a low level of tearing but once i see entire frames being noticably tore then i can't live without it.

But as stated, overall player skill is most important then how fast your monitor updates.
 

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#35
Which is why we are still "stuck" with the 60hz standard still. It USED to be "tough" to hit/maintain 60fps and Auntie Mabel checking her email on her Dell is neither going to know or care about her FPS or refresh rate. Outside of us gamers it's a non-issue.

GFX cards have advanced pretty quickly in Features and Power. Monitors are not keeping pace
My point was, that V-sync off = tearing. No matter what the refresh rate of the monitor is or how fast the GFX card is.
 
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#36
My point was, that V-sync off = tearing. No matter what the refresh rate of the monitor is or how fast the GFX card is.
It depends on the engine. Some tearing is worse than other. For instance, Rage (id soft's) looks like an untracked VHS tape, while Source games and BF3 barely have any tearing (IMO).

I personally don't notice tearing unless its REALLY bad - to me, as an FPS gamer, control input LAG is a death sentence, especially if you are going online. Your performance just plummets.

When you say FPS gamers, I am assuming someone like me, who has a mouse-pad the size of a couch pillow, low to mid DPI DeathAdder or some other high speed sensor mouse and plays FPS for that bit of adrenaline. FPS gamers to me are people that can, in the middle of a run, jump up, do a full 180, and hit someone in the head with a shot in far under a second, and that complain about shot reg on servers with a low TIC rate.

These are the type of people that back in the day used to hack their intellipoint to get the USB to poll at 1000hz instead of 250 to get that bit of a microsecond edge. And have entire forum threads on optimum sensitivity, and also are developing a time machine to go back and assassinate the people responsible for mouse acceleration and mouse smoothing.

For those people, being able to see and control to 120 FPS is much more important than not having any tearing, so yes, it gives a noticeable advantage. For everyone else - i am sure that it is nice to have, and it makes things a bit smoother - but an advantage if any is minimal.
 
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#37
My point was, that V-sync off = tearing. No matter what the refresh rate of the monitor is or how fast the GFX card is.
Preaching to the choir ;)
 
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#38
You realize that statement is almost a contradiction?:wtf:

120hz=120fps (V-synch limited) I would get no pleasure out of playing at 120fps on a 60hz monitor because V-synch would have to be disabled to achieve it so it would be tearing something awful(double the FPS the monitor can render)

That is the purpose of 120hz monitors. To be able to smoothly render frames higher than the "standard" 60hz. That is where the responsiveness comes in to play getting it above 60fps
I had to lol after I read what he said too.. 120 hz requires 120 fps and vice versa. Otherwise you're stuk, limited..
 
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#39
A really good player on a 60Hz monitor is still going to pwn you even if you have a 4 gazillion Hz monitor.
Patience and practice makes you better and gives you the edge, not your monitor.
Just saying. ;)
I can tell you that FPS does matter. A few of the guys in the BF3 clubhouse noticed their games improved when they gained more FPS. I was one of them. The reaction time was far better and my score per minute sky rocketed. So I gotta say yeah......120Hz monitor is gonna improve your skill in SOME games.
 
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#40
Any options for 120hz IPS 27" high res low latency? I'm thinking only modded / old catleap will come close?

cheers
 
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#41
Any options for 120hz IPS 27" high res low latency? I'm thinking only modded / old catleap will come close?

cheers
Yes there IS ;)

There is some great info there as well.
 

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#43
Sometimes higher framerate can affect gameplay in a bad way, lol.

Yeah, framerate can certainly affect a game engine negatively all right. For example, running the original Unreal Tournament on fast modern hardware with vsync unlocked can cause the game to run too fast, unevenly too. It tends to happen above around 6-700fps or so if I remember correctly.
 
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#44
Any options for 120hz IPS 27" high res low latency? I'm thinking only modded / old catleap will come close?

cheers
IIRC it wasn't actually doing 120hz... it strted to double or wtv after ~82 hz or something
 

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#45
I can tell you that FPS does matter. A few of the guys in the BF3 clubhouse noticed their games improved when they gained more FPS. I was one of them. The reaction time was far better and my score per minute sky rocketed. So I gotta say yeah......120Hz monitor is gonna improve your skill in SOME games.
Technically, No. You (and the other BF3 players) already had the skill, a better frame rate just allowed for you to use that skill more effectivley. Same with any hardware.
The monitor (or FPS increase) didn't improve your skill ... at all.

That being said, having greater response and higher accuracy from your hardware is always an advantage when gaming if you're good enough to take advantage of it.
 
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#46
Yes, it gives you an advantage.

Im running on a 120hz. Switched to it back in BFBC2. Significantly raised the clarity when moving the camera (provided I was above 80 fps, which was doable with bfbc2). That amount of clarity made enemies more decipherable. Tested it out with CoD, and it was capping at 120fps which made stuff really clear and less blurry.

Bf3, good experience overall (but was getting just 70fps from it, and dipping to the low 40s on huge maps).

Good pc horsepower, hi fi headphones, responsive mechanical keyboard, accurate gaming mouse, fast monitor... combine those, and it would narrow the bottleneck down to the player and his skills.
 
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#47
my moniter kills me in gaming... its getting to where some of the colors seem to bright while others are too dark. Darker colors tend to blur together... makes playing CS1.6 a PITA. its also at a low 60hz... back when i had my high end crt I could score kill after kill... now i'm lucky to hit the guys at all. so i just stick to single player games now. the poor view angle doesn't help any. Its a really old viewsonic from 2004-2005.

I had a set of Tritton AX 51s... the rounded ones not the newer square shaped ones. those helped my gaming quite a bit too.. so much that i was constantly accused of hacking lol
 

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#48
my moniter kills me in gaming... its getting to where some of the colors seem to bright while others are too dark. Darker colors tend to blur together... makes playing CS1.6 a PITA. its also at a low 60hz... back when i had my high end crt I could score kill after kill... now i'm lucky to hit the guys at all. so i just stick to single player games now. the poor view angle doesn't help any. Its a really old viewsonic from 2004-2005.

I had a set of Tritton AX 51s... the rounded ones not the newer square shaped ones. those helped my gaming quite a bit too.. so much that i was constantly accused of hacking lol
It sounds like that monitor has significant input lag. I'll bet if it was run side by side with a CRT monitor that it would be very obvious.
 

W1zzard

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#49
What happens if vsync is on 60hz and your gpu doesn't have enough power to produce 60fps?
Just to clarify on this:
With normal VSync on, if the card can't reach 60 FPS it will drop to 30 FPS, next step is 20 FPS.

from one of my reviews: "Traditional V-Sync merely sends frame data to the screen after every full screen refresh. This means if a frame arrives slow, because the GPU took longer to render it, it will have to wait a full screen refresh before it can be displayed, effectively reducing frame rate to 30 FPS. If rendering a frame takes longer than two full refreshes, the frame rate will even drop down to 20 FPS."

NVIDIA adaptive VSync or one of the FPS limiter tools out there will use a different approach, which doesn't cause the drop to 30 FPS
 

Mussels

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#50
i thought triple buffering was what made it not drop to 30.


i always run with Vsync on, and i get FPS all over the place. only in old openGL games without triple buffering, did it have to be divisible (EG, 15/30/60)