Does an AMD Sempron 3000+ Support Compare exchange 128?

[eidairaman1]

Windows 11 requires UEFI and doesn't support BIOS. UEFI is from July 2005 (it's technically older, but the EFI specification is a Intel-only thing).

That board is from September 2006 at the latest. It's unlikely it has UEFI (it's not even mentioned in the manual).

Alternatively, check with coreinfo if your processor supports LAHF/SAHF and CMPXCHG16B

Coreinfo - Sysinternals

Coreinfo is a command-line utility that shows you the mapping between logical processors and the physical processor.

docs.microsoft.com

Since tpm was bypassed im sure there is a way to bypass uefi requirements.

 

[windwhirl]

Since tpm was bypassed im sure there is a way to bypass uefi requirements.

My understanding is that since BIOS is not supported, the OS doesn't know how to handle itself in a BIOS environment.

 

[lexluthermiester]

My understanding is that since BIOS is not supported, the OS doesn't know how to handle itself in a BIOS environment.

That would be incorrect. Most of the systems I tested 11 with have been legacy BIOS based, not UEFI as many of them predate UEFI. That testing was deliberate as I wanted to prove microsoft's requirements and limitations were complete and utter nonsense(read bull$hit) and their claims without merit on any level. I was far from the only one to do testing like this.

 

[Patriot]

My understanding is that since BIOS is not supported, the OS doesn't know how to handle itself in a BIOS environment.

How to Install Windows 11 on Legacy BIOS without Secure Boot or TPM 2.0

Want to Install Windows 11 on a Legacy BIOS without Secure Boot and TPM? Well, here's a workaround that works 100%.

allthings.how

Seems to suggest it can be installed without UEFi

 

[eidairaman1]

That would be incorrect. Most of the systems I tested 11 with have been legacy BIOS based, not UEFI as many of them predate UEFI. That testing was deliberate as I wanted to prove microsoft's requirements and limitations were complete and utter nonsense(read bull$hit) and their claim without merit on any level. I was far from the only one to do testing like this.

How to Install Windows 11 on Legacy BIOS without Secure Boot or TPM 2.0

Want to Install Windows 11 on a Legacy BIOS without Secure Boot and TPM? Well, here's a workaround that works 100%.

allthings.how

Seems to suggest it can be installed without UEFi

Tpm and secureboot tweaks to os installer help

It's all over youtube

 

[Mussels]

Its a 2 slot board with 2x1gb sticks installed. Should be enough to run Windows 10, just not fast.

It'll be rough on whatever storage you use for your C: drive with a lot of writing and reading to the page file

Unless you have a genuine need, stick with an older OS, or a lightweight one like the various flavours of linux.

Edit: Ah i see, a for fun project. Yeah its a hardwall for sure, not something you can work past sadly.

 

[QuietBob]

Alright, "burned" the iso to a USB using Rufus which has an option to remove the install requirements.

However I am having issues getting the system to boot into the installer. I keep getting stuck at the windows logo and it won't go further

USB IS bootable in another computer, so I'm not sure what's going on.

This may have to do with the installer itself. I had the same issue when I integrated the Win10 installer into a Win7 ISO. Such USB stick would work on newer architectures, but not on my minimum systems. The regular Win7 ISO worked on both.

You could try installing Win11 on a newer PC, and then just swap the drive in to see if it boots.

 

[windwhirl]

That would be incorrect. Most of the systems I tested 11 with have been legacy BIOS based, not UEFI as many of them predate UEFI. That testing was deliberate as I wanted to prove microsoft's requirements and limitations were complete and utter nonsense(read bull$hit) and their claims without merit on any level. I was far from the only one to do testing like this.

No, what I meant is that the OS loader might be sending a command to the firmware, clearly expecting a UEFI response, not a BIOS one nor getting an error back (with actual BIOS, not UEFI+CSM, not recognizing that command due to not existing in BIOS).

For example, according to UEFI specification, time management seems to be able to be done through a UEFI runtime driver (a special driver that remains loaded and functioning in memory even when the OS takes over) and its functionality and behavior seems to be implied to be different from "PC-AT" (that is, BIOS).

So, really, my line of thinking was more into whether the OS is trying to execute a UEFI-style call/command and obviously failing. Though I can't find if UEFI+CSM is supposed to offer exclusively BIOS style interfaces/calls/etc., or if it offers both UEFI and BIOS style at the same time.Nevermind, Intel's CSM specification says that the firmware will simulate all required BIOS style structures/drivers/etc., for legacy OS that require it or go through a normal EFI boot if not needed.

 

[RyzenMaster.sys]

Microsoft has stated UEFI has been a requirement since Windows 8 IIRC, meaning Windows 10 also has UEFI as a "requirement" but yet works fine. It seems that UEFI is more of a recommended feature than a hard requirement.

I actually just updated my 8 year old laptop that originally had Windows 8 to Windows 11 using the USB I had prepared. I'm typing from it now. Because I formatted the USB for use with legacy systems, It required me putting the laptop in CSM mode, disabling UEFI, in order to get it to boot to the USB I had created. This showed Rufus worked its magic and the installer did not flag me for having secure boot disabled, no TPM, and an unsupported CPU (i5 3337u).

I also tried the USB formatted for UEFI systems on the MSI AM2 board and it did the same thing as the legacy formatted USB did.

The BIOS for the MSI AM2 board is from mid 2009, the latest for the board.

Thinking back, the Windows 10 Installer should have run on the Pentium 4 630 and LGA775 board. I think the w11 installer should definitely run here as well.

From what I understand the minimum requirements for the installer are lower than the OS itself.

In fact, I tried to install w10 onto my Pentium 4 511 w/ a dell 478 board a long time ago and had this same problem where the installer wouldn't load. I remember I somehow managed to get it to boot to the installer in the end... If only I could remember how. I think I had to prepare the USB differently. I never did install it on that system because I didn't have an IDE drive then.

Is there any possibility to install Windows 11 not from USB? Its larger than a CD or DVD.

Is there any way to fool the requirements checker if I were to update to 11 from within settings in Windows 10?

 

[lexluthermiester]

No, what I meant is that the OS loader might be sending a command to the firmware, clearly expecting a UEFI response, not a BIOS one nor getting an error back (with actual BIOS, not UEFI+CSM, not recognizing that command due to not existing in BIOS).

For example, according to UEFI specification, time management seems to be able to be done through a UEFI runtime driver (a special driver that remains loaded and functioning in memory even when the OS takes over) and its functionality and behavior seems to be implied to be different from "PC-AT" (that is, BIOS).

So, really, my line of thinking was more into whether the OS is trying to execute a UEFI-style call/command and obviously failing.

Ah I see what you mean, accessing the system clock. That has not been a problem for any of the systems I've tested.

Is there any way to fool the requirements checker if I were to update to 11 from within settings in Windows 10?

Yes, there's a guide somewhere here in the forums.

 

[RyzenMaster.sys]

I got the Athlon to boot the Windows 10 installation media and will go ahead and install it fresh that way. I have never felt the Windows installer be this unresponsive before

Once that installs I'll go and try to update to Windows 11 through Windows update.

While I could put in a drive with Windows 11 already installed and try to boot to it, it seems like cheating.

 

[eidairaman1]

I got the Athlon to boot the Windows 10 installation media and will go ahead and install it fresh that way. I have never felt the Windows installer be this unresponsive before

Once that installs I'll go and try to update to Windows 11 through Windows update.

While I could put in a drive with Windows 11 already installed and try to boot to it, it seems like cheating.

Ive installed windows on 1 rig just to move it to another, its not cheating, just ensure you dont activate it and the wifi/ethernet are disabled. No drivers until its planted in home system...

 

[RyzenMaster.sys]

I couldn't get w10 to boot after install. It just got stuck on "getting ready" after I tried 2 times.

So I broke down and just threw in the SSD from my laptop with a fresh copy of Windows 11... and it booted fine.

I kinda feel like I cheated but eh.

 

[windwhirl]

I kinda feel like I cheated but eh.

Who cares? You did it

 

[eidairaman1]

I couldn't get w10 to boot after install. It just got stuck on "getting ready" after I tried 2 times.

So I broke down and just threw in the SSD from my laptop with a fresh copy of Windows 11... and it booted fine.

View attachment 221214
I kinda feel like I cheated but eh.

It's a solution to a problem. Heck i've reinstalled windows along side itself.

 

[RyzenMaster.sys]

Now the question is, can I find something older that will work?

I might try that pentium 4 630 even though it probably won't work

 

[QuietBob]

I couldn't get w10 to boot after install. It just got stuck on "getting ready" after I tried 2 times.

You should've probably waited longer at this step, like maybe two hours? I'm pretty sure the installer was still doing its thing. Anyway, glad that you finally managed to boot it. Win11 on a single core AMD CPU confirmed!

Now the question is, can I find something older that will work?

The slowest Intel CPU to support LAHF/SAHF seems to be the Celeron D 355 (Prescott-256) from December 2005. But AFAIK CMPXCHG16B wasn't supported until Core 2.
The Pentium 4 HT 630 has no support for LAHF/SAHF to my knowledge.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I couldn't get w10 to boot after install. It just got stuck on "getting ready" after I tried 2 times.

So I broke down and just threw in the SSD from my laptop with a fresh copy of Windows 11... and it booted fine.

View attachment 221214
I kinda feel like I cheated but eh.

The question is though, how did it perform? Was it a usable or stuttery mess?

 

[eidairaman1]

Now the question is, can I find something older that will work?

I might try that pentium 4 630 even though it probably won't work

Did you get it on the E6 Sempron?

 

[theFOoL]

- use RuFus in MBR for a WiN11 USB Installer
- Use the Reg Bypass LINK
- once booted the installer hit F10+Shift
- enter regedit.... Then import the Reg File "Just place in the root of the USB 'Root is the location of you see every file/folder'

 

[RyzenMaster.sys]

You should've probably waited longer at this step, like maybe two hours? I'm pretty sure the installer was still doing its thing. Anyway, glad that you finally managed to boot it. Win11 on a single core AMD CPU confirmed!


The slowest Intel CPU to support LAHF/SAHF seems to be the Celeron D 355 (Prescott-256) from December 2005. But AFAIK CMPXCHG16B wasn't supported until Core 2.
The Pentium 4 HT 630 has no support for LAHF/SAHF to my knowledge.

Pentium 4 HT630 will not boot to the w11 SSD. It does the same thing as when I tried a w10 64 drive: Windows logo then reboot. It can't even get to a recovery menu. I think both w10 and w11 both require LAFH/SAHF.

Did you get it on the E6 Sempron?

Will try now, but it's probably not going to run.

The question is though, how did it perform? Was it a usable or stuttery mess?

Not exactly speedy, I'll time some things and give you a frame of reference in a minute.

 

[HenrySomeone]

The Cedar Mill P4s (631, 641, 651, 661) seem to run Win 10 just fine...
Using Pentium 4 in 2020 with Windows 10 - YouTube

 

[RyzenMaster.sys]

The Cedar Mill P4s (631, 641, 651, 661) seem to run Win 10 just fine...
Using Pentium 4 in 2020 with Windows 10 - YouTube

Probably 32 bit

 

[HenrySomeone]

At 1:05 mark he says the cpu he has (641) is compatible with Win 10 64 bit and therefore I assume that's also the version he is using. It also ties in with what someone already mentioned higher up in the thread - that you need min a 65nm cpu from Intel and Cedar Mill series IS 65 nm (the forerunner on that node before Core 2 duos in fact). This means that the oldest Intel CPU that could run Win 11 would be Pentium 631 and the weakest probably Celeron 420.

 

[RyzenMaster.sys]

I have a handful of PGA478 boards, but can't really do much with them right now.

The ones with onboard GPU have only ide and I don't have any ide hard drives. The one board with SATA has no onboard graphics and for expansion it supports agp only. I don't have any agp gpus. I have an Nvidia MX4000 AGP on the way, probably will be here Friday.

The question is though, how did it perform? Was it a usable or stuttery mess?

I installed graphics drivers before trying to get some times because I was having some graphical issues. Installing the drivers took FOREVER because first Windows update decided to run in the background and then defender decided to run a virus scan, all hogging the CPU slowing it all down.

Athlon 64 3800+
MSI AM2
4gb ram
GT740 2gb
240GB Gigabyte SSD
Mostly fresh Windows 11 Home

From power pins bridged to Windows logo was 20 or so seconds.

From power on pins bridged to login screen was a whopping 3 minutes 15 seconds.

If I tried to use it immediately after desktop loaded it would be extra slow, so I then let it sit at the desktop for a bit to idle down.

Some programs open very quickly, in only a second or 2, like WordPad and paint.

Firefox takes about 10 seconds to open the application and load all the ui elements, then about another 10 seconds to load the default homepage, but that could be impacted by my internet.

Shutting the PC down takes a bit as well.

One thing I will mention is that thermals for the CPU are probably sub optimal due to the fx8320e stock cooler I was using and the thermal paste application likely having air in it.

Did you get it on the E6 Sempron?

As for the sempron, the board actually has pcie and sata which is nice, but it doesn't work properly with any of the newer SSDs I have tried since it's SATA 1. It just shows ide drive error and won't boot to the gigabyte SSD (which is <1yr old) and Windows 11. It will work with my decade old Samsung 830 ssds but cannot boot to Windows 10 x64, which is basically the premise with the original post. I don't think getting it working there is going to be possible.