DRAM overclock complete Noob dumb question

[pcwolf]

I'm in my 60s. Been networking and geeking since the 1970s. I do my research. Reread @1usmus guide about six times over.
Got Taiphoon and DRAM-calc and r/overclocking under my belt. Ready to enter values directly into UEFI bios myself, and turn off XMP

QUESTION:
Do I proceed by selecting, one by one, separate Primary timing values in order :: Reboot :: Test ?
Or, is there a full set of values (all Primary, eight or ten Secondary) I should try all at once?

More simply ... one by one, or groups of values all at once?

Any replies shining a light on my ignorance are welcome. Thanks

 

[sneekypeet]

Most motherboards will take multiple changes at once, but I have seen a few in the past not like it so much.

All you can really do is to try it both ways, primaries, then the others, or slam in the entire profile at once.

Changing it in smaller groups would allow you to see an issue along the way, where if the entire profile wont work, you have no idea why. Easier to diagnose groups of four or five than 30 or more at once.

 

[NoJuan999]

I personally ran Thaiphoon Burner to identify my Exact RAM IC's then input that info into the Ryzen DRAM Calculator.
Thaiphoon Burner (reads RAM information for use in the Calculator):
http://www.softnology.biz/files.html

DRAM Calculator Instructions:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/27694284-post3363.html

But, I did NOT just input the results of the DRAM calculator intop my BIOS.
I took it one step at a time.
I tried tighter primary timings (tCL, tRCDWR, tRCDRD, tRP) first, then tested for stability.
Then I tried to tighten some secondary timings (tFAW, tRAS and tRC) and tested for stability again.
Then I tried tighter tRFC, tRFC2 and tRFC4 and tested again.

 

[Apocalypsee]

I personally ran Thaiphoon Burner to identify my Exact RAM IC's then input that info into the Ryzen DRAM Calculator.

But, I did NOT just input the results of the DRAM calculator intop my BIOS.
I took it one step at a time.
I tried tighter primary timings (tCL, tRCDWR, tRCDRD, tRP) first, then tested for stability.
Then I tried to tighten some secondary timings (tFAW, tRAS and tRC) and tested for stability again.
Then I tried tighter tRFC, tRFC2 and tRFC4 and tested again.

This is what I do too.

Most of the improvements come from the primary timings, the other timings are there if you really wanted to squeeze every bit of improvements that you can get if you hit frequency wall, or you wanted the best at the frequency you wanted.

Also do tune voltages as well, DRAM can handle certain range of voltages so start the middle of that range and when you wanted to tighten the timings you can try to raise the voltage. Provided the RAM are adequately cooled.

 

[Zach_01]

First primary timings as a set then others in small groups.
Ryzen 3000 will benefit most by primary, tRFC,tRC, tRAS, tFAW.

After you find a working set, then you can fine-tune each one by one.

 

[TheLostSwede]

There's no need to enter all the settings. The quick and dirty eat to good, but maybe not super tuned performance is to set CAS and tRFC as low as you can. Then tune the secondary memory timings a bit. You might have to tweak a few other things as well. I posted screenshots of my UEFI settings in a thread somewhere that had a similar question. Setting all the sub timings in a waste of time imho.

 

[pcwolf]

Thanks, Swede!

I tracked down that thread, "[RAM] DDR4 3200 Mhz speed not working"
Buildzoid's video explanation of Ryzen of mCLK - uCLK - fCLK alone was worth the search.
Your thorough explanation by page four about the relative importance of timings and voltages, along with your screenshots, were well worth two hours of my time, too.

I am learning that this overclocking requires: 1) rigorous logic, and 2) thorough documentation. I think you are not lost!

Man ... that Ryzen Master is a pretty handy tool, after all.

I dual boot Manjaro + Win10, and before I started on this memory stuff I only thought it was pretty eye candy.
Now that I'm tuning it in, I find myself spending more time in Windows. Which is not a great thing, but Ryzen Master beats the snot out of rebooting into UEFI bios to test.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Thanks, Swede!

I tracked down that thread, "[RAM] DDR4 3200 Mhz speed not working"
Buildzoid's video explanation of Ryzen of mCLK - uCLK - fCLK alone was worth the search.
Your thorough explanation by page four about the relative importance of timings and voltages, along with your screenshots, were well worth two hours of my time, too.

I am learning that this overclocking requires: 1) rigorous logic, and 2) thorough documentation. I think you are not lost!

Man ... that Ryzen Master is a pretty handy tool, after all.

I dual boot Manjaro + Win10, and before I started on this memory stuff I only thought it was pretty eye candy.
Now that I'm tuning it in, I find myself spending more time in Windows. Which is not a great thing, but Ryzen Master beats the snot out of rebooting into UEFI bios to test.

Did you manage to get it all working?

 

[pcwolf]

Thanks for the follow-up, Swede!

I am working my way through things, complicated by the UEFI being flaky. Hard to tell when my timings affect the boot, or when it is some kind of mismatched "Auto" setting in UEFI. I am guessing this is to be expected and all part of the process. I won't say part of the "pleasure" of overclocking

ASRock UEFI also has two pages with duplicated memory timing entries. When I set DRAM timings on "OC Tweaker" and check the second page under "AMD CBS" all the entries show settings as "AUTO" so that basically TRIPLES my work if I must go back and forth between the two to test if there is any difference between setting one, or the other, or both.

One truly irritating thing is that there are so many different names for the same thing. There is no "fCLK" "mCLK" "uCLK" switch that I can find. CPU-Z stubbornly shows my North Bridge at 950Mhz while it is booting and running well at 3800Mhz so the other two must be at 1900Mhz, I can only assume. CAS latency shown on Aida64 is also stubbornly stuck around 74.2ns when this is a very high quality kit of b-die and I see so many lows in the 60s or less.

I have learned that after each successful setting and boot cycle, to save a User Default UEFI to use as fallback when something doesn't work. There are five slots for saving these defaults, so I am gradually building a ladder of successful changes.

So ... as I say ... to be expected.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Thanks for the follow-up, Swede!

I am working my way through things, complicated by the UEFI being flaky. Hard to tell when my timings affect the boot, or when it is some kind of mismatched "Auto" setting in UEFI. I am guessing this is to be expected and all part of the process. I won't say part of the "pleasure" of overclocking

ASRock UEFI also has two pages with duplicated memory timing entries. When I set DRAM timings on "OC Tweaker" and check the second page under "AMD CBS" all the entries show settings as "AUTO" so that basically TRIPLES my work if I must go back and forth between the two to test if there is any difference between setting one, or the other, or both.

One truly irritating thing is that there are so many different names for the same thing. There is no "fCLK" "mCLK" "uCLK" switch that I can find. CPU-Z stubbornly shows my North Bridge at 950Mhz while it is booting and running well at 3800Mhz so the other two must be at 1900Mhz, I can only assume. CAS latency shown on Aida64 is also stubbornly stuck around 74.2ns when this is a very high quality kit of b-die and I see so many lows in the 60s or less.

I have learned that after each successful setting and boot cycle, to save a User Default UEFI to use as fallback when something doesn't work. There are five slots for saving these defaults, so I am gradually building a ladder of successful changes.

So ... as I say ... to be expected.

Did you update to the latest UEFI release? It makes a huge difference on the Ryzen 3000 CPUs.

You shouldn't have to set the timings in multiple interfaces, one or the other should do.

They're not all the same thing, just do the ones that you're certain about and leave the rest on auto or normal.
Don't forget to set the infinity fabric clocks as well, as that's separate from the FSB and is not found in the memory timing settings.
950 implies that you're running the infinity fabric at a 2:1 ratio, rather than 1:1.

You should also have an option to save multiple settings, although I'm not familiar with your specific board and UEFI, but it's a fairly common feature these days.

 

[moproblems99]

ASRock UEFI also has two pages with duplicated memory timing entries. When I set DRAM timings on "OC Tweaker" and check the second page under "AMD CBS" all the entries show settings as "AUTO" so that basically TRIPLES my work if I must go back and forth between the two to test if there is any difference between setting one, or the other, or both.

I also have the ASRock UEFI...happy, happy, joy, joy.

I need to double check but I am pretty sure I don't do it in OC Tweaker because I found the settings better laid out in the other section. It also seems to show correctly in other tools.

I find it interesting you are seeing 950 for controller speed when you have everything else set at 1900. I'll need to check mine.

 

[Zach_01]

One truly irritating thing is that there are so many different names for the same thing. There is no "fCLK" "mCLK" "uCLK" switch that I can find. CPU-Z stubbornly shows my North Bridge at 950Mhz while it is booting and running well at 3800Mhz so the other two must be at 1900Mhz, I can only assume. CAS latency shown on Aida64 is also stubbornly stuck around 74.2ns when this is a very high quality kit of b-die and I see so many lows in the 60s or less.

I suspect you either run your
DRAM multi X19 with MEMCLK==UCLK (Unlikely)
or
DRAM multi X38 with MEMCLK 2:1 UCLK (I doubt you set this)
or
DRAM multi X38 with MEMCLK/UCLK in auto mode and the board run it on 2:1 ratio (probably this)

This is why you get so high latency. UCLK is running half the MEMCLK speed. I other words the memory controller running half the DRAM speed.
You need to find the MEMCLK/UCLK mode in there and set it to MEMCLK==UCLK for them to run on same 1900MHz speed.

 

[moproblems99]

So I did a quick run and my frequencies are coming out as expected. Granted I am x570 and you are x470 but I think we have similar UEFI. If I had to do it again, I would probably have bought Gygabyte or....ew...MSI.

I'll post the results shortly. I haven't purchased AIDA because, frankly, I haven't cared enough to bother. Until I get a better GPU to push these pixels, the tweaks just don't have much impact.

 

[Zach_01]

So I did a quick run and my frequencies are coming out as expected. Granted I am x570 and you are x470 but I think we have similar UEFI. If I had to do it again, I would probably have bought Gygabyte or....ew...MSI.

I'll post the results shortly. I haven't purchased AIDA because, frankly, I haven't cared enough to bother. Until I get a better GPU to push these pixels, the tweaks just don't have much impact.

Maybe you can tell him where to find the MEMCLK==UCLK

 

[moproblems99]

Maybe you can tell him where to find the MEMCLK==UCLK

As far as I know, there isn't. From what I can tell, setting XMP is what sets the uclk but that is only a guess from reading others. It seems that setting XMP sets both memclk and uclk except controlling fclk and memclk is possible independently where uclk does not appear possible. That said, I have not spent a ton of time with this as I have been super lazy and actually playing games.

And for you Zach, have experimented with dropping LLC to 4 or 5 yet?

 

[Zach_01]

As far as I know, there isn't.

Not even in yours? an X570 board?

And for you Zach, have experimented with dropping LLC to 4 or 5 yet?

For what matter are we talking about here?

 

[Schmuckley]

I'm in my 60s. Been networking and geeking since the 1970s. I do my research. Reread @1usmus guide about six times over.
Got Taiphoon and DRAM-calc and r/overclocking under my belt. Ready to enter values directly into UEFI bios myself, and turn off XMP

QUESTION:
Do I proceed by selecting, one by one, separate Primary timing values in order :: Reboot :: Test ?
Or, is there a full set of values (all Primary, eight or ten Secondary) I should try all at once?

More simply ... one by one, or groups of values all at once?

Any replies shining a light on my ignorance are welcome. Thanks

How to lower ram timings: Lower the 4 settings cL,trcd,trp,tras) 1 setting at a time.one notch at a time .lower it..reboot..see if post..lower 1 more..reboot..etc..until you don't POST;then go back to the last one that worked..this will put you in the ballpark.

I am pre-DRAM calc, and that saved text is from 2013. It is the method.
Down on the bottom there's also TCKE which I think Splave taught about?
Lowering TCKE can help you tighten all tertiary timings, but do primaries 1st.

 

[pcwolf]

Thanks Mo, Zach! Great information I can put to use.

I found great insight with your comment about ranked-order possibility. I believe you are correct, and will post here my results.

Mo ... there is a keyseller on eBay who offers apparently legitimate keys to Aida64. Less than ten dollars U.S. Instant email of key to you.

 

[Schmuckley]

Here's my current timings on this crap RAM.

AMD Ryzen 7 2700X @ 4317.58 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[dvs670] Validated Dump by Schmuckley (2020-02-26 00:09:54) - MB: Asus ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO - RAM: 32768 MB

valid.x86.fr

2800 Mhz.

I did that myself, no DRAM calc or nuthin'.

 

[pcwolf]

Here's my current timings on this crap RAM.

AMD Ryzen 7 2700X @ 4317.58 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[dvs670] Validated Dump by Schmuckley (2020-02-26 00:09:54) - MB: Asus ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO - RAM: 32768 MB

valid.x86.fr

2800 Mhz.

I did that myself, no DRAM calc or nuthin'.

I know you are a Pioneer. I can tell by the arrows in your back!

 

[Schmuckley]

I know you are a Pioneer. I can tell by the arrows in your back!

I used to be an adventurer, until I took an arrow to the knee.
Seriously though, there's been times..and I'm out there with unknown hardware and trying to make something happen, and I did!

No guides, nobody to ask for advice. Wing it! (The less that happens the better)
I came through by sheer luck!

Can't even ask ask Flanker..You gotta feel it out!

 

[moproblems99]

Mo ... there is a keyseller on eBay who offers apparently legitimate keys to Aida64. Less than ten dollars U.S. Instant email of key to you.

While appreciated, if I am going to go keyseller route, I'll go with the ones that took the time to setup a website. Ebay is already sketchy as ....

 

[pcwolf]

While appreciated, if I am going to go keyseller route, I'll go with the ones that took the time to setup a website. Ebay is already sketchy as ....

I understand
eBay

 

[Schmuckley]

I personally ran Thaiphoon Burner to identify my Exact RAM IC's then input that info into the Ryzen DRAM Calculator.
Thaiphoon Burner (reads RAM information for use in the Calculator):
http://www.softnology.biz/files.html

DRAM Calculator Instructions:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/27694284-post3363.html

But, I did NOT just input the results of the DRAM calculator intop my BIOS.
I took it one step at a time.
I tried tighter primary timings (tCL, tRCDWR, tRCDRD, tRP) first, then tested for stability.
Then I tried to tighten some secondary timings (tFAW, tRAS and tRC) and tested for stability again.
Then I tried tighter tRFC, tRFC2 and tRFC4 and tested again.

Next time tighten TCKE 1st, then do the secondaries. I bet you like it!

 

[pcwolf]

"One truly irritating thing is that there are so many different names for the same thing. There is no "fCLK" "mCLK" "uCLK" switch that I can find." -- Me

"DRAM multi X38 with MEMCLK/UCLK in auto mode and the board run it on 2:1 ratio (probably this)
You need to find the MEMCLK/UCLK mode in there and set it to MEMCLK==UCLK for them to run on same 1900MHz speed." --Zach_01

"UCLK DIV1 MODE
If UclkDiv1Mode==1, UCLK==MEMCLK
If UclkDiv1Mode==0, UCLK==MEMCLK/2" --AMD CBS/NorthBridge/XFR

Not ONLY do they have three names for the same thing, they also have the UPPER and lower case all effed up.
SHEESH!