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DRM, the discussion continues...

Frick

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It's my opinion that the majority of people pirating games are people that are too poor to buy them anyway so DRM used like Denuvo where a game usually can't be cracked quickly isn't going to force those people to buy the game. Here in the West we take it for granted that we have large amounts of disposable income for entertainment but a lot of the world doesn't.

Does not having money to purchase a game give you a right to pirate the game? I've been thinking about that quite a bit, and I always reach the conclusion that it doesn't.
 

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Does not having money to purchase a game give you a right to pirate the game? I've been thinking about that quite a bit, and I always reach the conclusion that it doesn't.

No, it doesn't give them the right. Stealing is stealing no matter what the reason but I wanted to make the point about DRM that it won't force poor people to buy the games because they can't afford them in the first place. DRM just isn't that effective at all unless it really does force people who can afford to buy the games to buy them because they are too impatient to wait for the game to get cracked but no one knows how many that is. You can't even compare a game's sales to a previous one like RDR2 to RDR1 or GTA V to GTA IV because the new game has more sales but is it just a better game? Marketed better? There is no proof how much more income a Publisher is receiving by using Denuvo.
 
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Only when it stops me from enjoying my game. Take Mass Effect for example I can no longer play my legal copy because I'm out of activations
 
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Only when it stops me from enjoying my game. Take Mass Effect for example I can no longer play my legal copy because I'm out of activations
In that situation, the developers have unlawfully denied you access to something you have lawful claim to. EULA's may have wording to certain disclaimers, but standing legal code that has been validated countless times is simple; You paid for it, you have the right to use it, as you see fit, within the realms of personal use. In this case, you have the legally protected right to to remove any limitations to access what you've paid for. So if you were to find and apply a third party "patch", you are well within your rights to do so, regardless of any limitations declared in a EULA. This is not piracy, it is modification to restore lawful access.
 
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i already got around it, same as i did with Crysis and spore, EA really had a phase there of 5 activations and you can never play agian
 
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i already got around it, same as i did with Crysis and spore, EA really had a phase there of 5 activations and you can never play again
They and others had little choice but to get rid of that policy over liability concerns. They realized they could and would get sued(and lose) if they didn't stop, so they did.
 
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This video talks about DRM's performance impact on lower end hardware and even talks about CDProjekt's history and their stance on DRM.


CDPR competes with piracy rather than trying to prevent it. And it's clearly worked very well for them. If you make a quality product that is worth buying, then people will buy it.

He also talks about game preservation, broken regional pricing, and different copyright laws in different countries.

On a similar note, finding out that the Epic Store has no built in DRM was enough for me to fully accept it. Now waiting for Outer Worlds to go on sale so I can buy it (hopefully) DRM free.
 

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i already got around it, same as i did with Crysis and spore, EA really had a phase there of 5 activations and you can never play agian
They also put out a whole line of “De-authorization” tools for a number of games. The purpose was for those that didn’t properly uninstall a game (like if a hard drive failed or the OS corrupted and you reinstalled it). This tool then put those activations back so you could install again. You can still find them at EA, or at least could 2 years ago.
 
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They also put out a whole line of “De-authorization” tools for a number of games. The purpose was for those that didn’t properly uninstall a game (like if a hard drive failed or the OS corrupted and you reinstalled it). This tool then put those activations back so you could install again. You can still find them at EA, or at least could 2 years ago.
While that was a positive step, I don't think they're available anymore.
 

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While that was a positive step, I don't think they're available anymore.
That’s a shame. I didn’t know if they were still available since I hadn’t needed them. I still have a number of them on a storage drive on my server. Talk about saving useless data! :laugh:
 
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Another annoying run-in with DRM...

I bought Fable 3 on Amazon (since you can't buy it through Steam anymore) and got a Steam code. Installed the game and tried running it, and I got a black screen.

Did some reading and it turns out that Fable 3 has Games for Windows Live, which was shut down in 2014.

I had to download a file that bypasses that DRM, and now the game works. It's still a messy PC port, but it works now.

It's sad that in order to play a game I legally purchased, I have to bypass one of the broken DRM systems that "protects" it.
 

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It's sad that in order to play a game I legally purchased, I have to bypass one of the broken DRM systems that "protects" it.

Unfortunately thats just one of the downsides. I remember hearing a similar story about an old Disney game - Back in the days when Disney did their own games or partnered with publishers that actually cared about the quality of their games.

Guy installed the game but couldn't play it because whatever network/server the DRM used to authenticate no longer existed and hadn't in almost a decade if not longer. He fired off an email to Disney and they sent him back some boilerplate response thanking him for his purchase, his interest in Disney and the particular game franchise but they currently had no plans to bring the game back but maybe they will one day if there was enough interest. -- typical PR response.


If you bought and own the game - then just download a crack for it.

In this day and age - Publishers hate when their games dont have kill switches. Battlefield 3 and 4 (and BF1) has been one of the biggest of thorns in BF:V's side and thats why EA were so reluctant to have a server rental programme with BF:V - They dont want people to be allowed to keep hiring servers from private hosts when EA calls time on it.

EA/DICE said they would have server rental almost a year ago and from what i can see, Nothing has come of it. I doubt they will do anything about it now though since sales of the game have been so bad.

Activision however did something very smart and made their CoD games P2P based after CoD4 - If nobody is playing the old games - you wont be able to get into a multi-player game and even if you do, your lag could be absolutely horrific because the host youre trying to join is from halfway across the world.

They made the game this way so they could frustrate the hell out of you enough to buy their newer game where all the fun is happening. Nothing is stopping you from playing the single player campaigns though.
 

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Such a shame to kill off an old game just to get you on to the new one... EA even went after the guys that were keeping BF2/2142 going...
 
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If you bought and own the game - then just download a crack for it.
Hahaha, there is sweet poetry in the fact that DRM's give paying customers an incentive to support the pirates that the DRMs exist to foil. The only difference is that now, people still have to technically pirate the game they paid for just to play it. Whereas before, people would just pirate games to play them for free. So it's like they're telling you not to bother paying in the first place. One might think "Why bother paying just to get screwed later?" It's like they got together and asked each other "How do we take even MORE value away from the player?" :laugh:

I'm torn... piracy is kind of to blame for giving companies a reason to lock down more, and then presenting them an opportunity to lock out paying customers for sales. They wouldn't have the idea to use it nefariously if not for feeling a need to adopt it to protect lost sales. But it's also one time where I can somewhat accept it as a form of protest against anti-consumer practices. Not buying is a protest in itself. Going through the motions to circumvent the lockdowns is like that second middle finger to their practices. Not advocating for anything here... just strange times, really.
 
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For a company to effectively sabotage users abilities to run software they own/have paid for is a violation of statutory rights. Users therefore have the lawfully protected right to modify their software to function as they need regardless of the wishes of copyright owner. Such is specifically not piracy.
 
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For a company to effectively sabotage users abilities to run software they own/have paid for is a violation of statutory rights. Users therefore have the lawfully protected right to modify their software to function as they need regardless of the wishes of copyright owner. Such is specifically not piracy.
I don't know the specifics of what you're talking about, so I won't comment on that. But assuming that is 100% true... there would still be some difficulties in making meaningful use of that, unfortunately. Very limited scope, basically leaving users to crack their own games with time and know-how they may not have. Also goes back to reducing value. If those are the hoops you pay to jump through, that's still a huge problem. I personally would rather not support it at all than begrudgingly crack my own games. I don't feel better about it knowing it's somewhat allowed. It's not enough, you know?

For instance... this may protect legitimate users from legal recourse born of using cracked exes/dlls and whatnot, but not so much the people who provide the cracked files to those users. It's not like pirate uploaders care if the downloader owns the game or not. They still don't have the rights to openly distribute those files, right? So they can still be pursued and shut down. And if they can still go after them, the net outcome doesn't change for the end user, save for the few who are able to make and retain their own cracks for themselves, I guess. DRM makers and game distributors can still use the former as the reason for having these locks in place (and then abuse them without a care in the world.)

If they're going to continue implementing wonky DRMs and shutting out paying customers, there will always be a demand for people to break the protection and openly distribute the files to paying and non-paying users alike. Even if they were verifying ownership it still wouldn't be kosher. Legitimate customers then seek these files out, keeping the whole thing going and potentially spreading all sorts of malware. The whole thing is still broken, regardless of whether legitimate users are legally entitled to bypass DRM.

In a sense, they prop up the very situation they claim to be circumventing with these measures. We all know the pirates will never capitulate. It's like a sport for them. So what's left of DRM, then? That's where the issue stems from with me, more than anything. It doesn't work and in fact feeds the pirate ecosystems built around cracking them, while also removing value from the product for paying customers. It's a net loss. Doesn't matter if people have the right to crack the software they've paid up on for their personal usage.
 
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