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Discussion in 'Audio, Video & Home Theater' started by MilkyWay, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. MilkyWay

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    I've never tried to make a stereo source on my pc upmixed to multichannel. With stereo sources not on my PC for example my older consoles, laserdiscs or tv i use Pro logic II because i like the voice to be from my front speaker. Never had a problem just changing the surround button to PLII on my receiver with any source other than my PC.

    Windows says i have support for Dolby Digital and DTS, the HD formats ect only proper multichannel sound. When i have a DTS encoded source i play it with VLC and it works the light appears on my receiver. Whenever i play a stereo encoded video on VLC i cannot select Pro Logic II on my receiver; i only get the options for Stereo, Stereo or PCM.

    With video i usually use multichannel sources so i've never had to upmix, with music i prefer stereo, gaming works fine in surround, only now i have a stereo encoded video that i'd like to upmix. My Pioneer VSX 527 should be able to do this.
     
  2. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

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    This is a standard issue with Windows' sound output and decoded audio.

    Whenever Windows decodes audio, it sends out as many channels as the number of speakers you have set in your Windows audio output configuration. This occurs even if the material you are playing does not have that many channels. If you are not bitstreaming DD or DTS and instead decoding the audio on the PC, you need to change the number of speakers in Windows to the number of channels in your audio file. You may need to change this every time you play a new file if you have files with different numbers of channels; alternatively, you can use different software that will automatically do this (MPC-HC is what I use).

    In your case, if you have your Windows audio output configured to 5.1 speakers and you decode a 2-channel audio file, Windows will still send out a 5.1 audio stream with silent center and rear channels. Since your receiver is receiving a 5.1 stream, it disables Pro Logic II because it makes no sense to apply PLII to a 5.1 stream (the receiver doesn't know the other channels are silent). If you change the number of speakers in Windows to 2, the PLII option will become available on your receiver because Windows will only send out a 2 channel stream to which the receiver can then apply the PLII algorithm.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
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  3. AsRock

    AsRock TPU addict

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    I don't watch video's on mine although some games are 5.1 \ surround sound and such my A/V stays as multichannel, although i can select say DD if i wanted and select that in the game too.

    I don't believe windows handles sound well at all and to get it to change to multichannel you have to configure it in the sound options.
     
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  4. arbiter

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    Um i think you have to use SPDIF (passthrough) digital out settings in the player so it doesn't decode the audio and sends it out the HDMI so stereo does the processing work.
     
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  5. FR@NK

    FR@NK

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    If the source is encoded in stereo then you only lose sound quality when you try and upmix the signal. Play it as it was intended(in stereo) or get better source material.

    The way I look at this is if the artist recorded it in stereo then the best way to reproduce what the artist intended is to play it in stereo.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2016
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  6. Jetster

    Jetster

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    Do you realize Pro Logic is not 5.1? Its a matrix of two channel which is what I think your trying to do. Try another player and install CCCP codex. Then set the FFDShow for DTS,DD

    Anyway let us know what cords your using
     
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  7. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

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    The video file likely has MP3 or M4A audio, and you can't bitstream that to the receiver over S/PDIF or HDMI. It has to be decoded by Windows before being sent to the receiver as LPCM.

    You're confusing what he's trying to do. He doesn't seem to have any problems bitstreaming (what he means by "When i have a DTS encoded source i play it with VLC and it works the light appears on my receiver"), and he's not playing stereo material with Pro Logic matrix encoding and trying to recover the channels. He's trying to send decoded stereo audio to the receiver and then apply his receiver's PLII processing to expand the audio to 5.1. I suspect it isn't working because Windows is sending the receiver a 5.1 audio stream with silent channels and then the receiver locks him out of applying PLII because there's no point in applying PLII processing to a 5.1 stream.

    I wouldn't make such a generalization; there are many technical and economic reasons that the source is in stereo, and getting better source material is frequently impossible. For example, the technology for multichannel audio may not have been available at the time of recording or the producer might have just not wanted to take the time and money to produce a multichannel source. I personally would love if all new music was released as multichannel as it was when DVD-Audio and SACD was popular a decade ago, but that isn't going to happen. This isn't because the producer wouldn't create it or the music was always intended to be heard in stereo but instead because the average consumer with a portable media player and headphones won't buy it. It doesn't mean I should have to let most of the speakers in my home theater go to waste when playing music.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
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  8. FR@NK

    FR@NK

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    Its all just comes down to personal preference. If you like the way stereo music sounds when upmixed to all of your surround speakers then thats great. My ears perfer stereo to be played in stereo; and I feel there is no better accuracy of a soundstage reproduction when you have a properly calibrated stereo setup.
     
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  9. Jetster

    Jetster

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    There not going to waste. There is something about true native, stereo format.

    That's actually what I meant
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
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  10. Ferrum Master

    Ferrum Master

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    So much hassle... that's reason I am stuck with analog signal :D The less crap in your signal way, the better.
     
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  11. MilkyWay

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    In general i prefer stereo if its encoded like that, with music its the way it was intended but the Pro Logic II does such a good job with video.
    I have tried the simple stuff such as setting to stereo in windows control panel rather than 5.1 because i figured it was sending a 5.1 signal even though it was a stereo source. I can't even use any of the built in settings on my receiver for surround matrix stuff, usually you can get the stereo to play from both front and rears in sync or upmix to 5.1.

    My TV has ARC and so does my receiver so that is connected to the output with HDMI on my receiver, the PC is then connected to a HDMI in. My monitor is DVI so i just connect it to the AMD 6850. Its simple it does work.
    I've had less HDCP issues with this cheapo Amazon basics HDMI cable with my receiver, i used to just buy my cables from ebay but the build quality was always suspect.

    I have to have the HDMI connected to receiver and graphics card as i use my plasma tv as a second monitor quite a lot for video or the odd game if its suited to a controller.
     
  12. MilkyWay

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    Might get it working if i used optical from receiver to my sound card. Any noticeable difference in quality doing it this way? I'm just annoyed that i can't do it with HDMI, its a pc side issue for sure.
     
  13. Jetster

    Jetster

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    So you have you PC>HDMI>Reciever>HDMI> TV right?
    But you also have another monitor hooked up as DVI?

    Optical is digital like HDMI but Optical has less bandwith. It just wont do uncompressed 5.1 HD Audio

    What receiver do you have?
     
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  14. MilkyWay

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    Pioneer VSX 527

    Yeah i have the pc hooked up to a monitor with DVI just like normal, then the graphics cards HDMI connected to the receiver, then the receiver to the TV as output. Everything on the Receiver outputs to TV as far as video goes, its got ARC so it can send signals to and from the tv.

    Well now you say it i did know that optical is just another digital connection and digital is just 1/0s with the bandwidth it would be alright to send a stereo signal as its only PCM; the receiver does all the decoding anyway.
     
  15. Jetster

    Jetster

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    So sense you have a monitor hooked up to DVI do you have desktop speakers hooked up to a sound card also? If you do this will play havoc with your sound properties. Winodows sound properties doesn't like switching back and forth. It likes to set on one output and left
     
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  16. FR@NK

    FR@NK

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    Set windows audio to stereo.

    [​IMG]

    Then set your receiver to process the stereo into surround.

    [​IMG]

    Done.

    See your manual for more details.
     
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  17. MilkyWay

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    While i had already tried setting windows to stereo i decided to try again (one of my posts above says i'd already tried this), it still resulted in only STEREO or PCM options. Somewhere on my Google searches i read you can only play Pro Logic II ect at certain bit rates. Dropped the sample rate from 24bit 192,000hz to 96,000hz. Apparently thats all it was, just the sample rate. Works perfect now.

    Still prefer pure stereo for music though.

    Actually i have my A/C receiver plugged in via HDMI to my AMD 6850. Since the receiver does all the decoding ect thats alright as the HDMI out on my graphics card does audio out and video.
     
  18. Dent1

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    I know the answer. Because I have the same issue, but its easily solved.

    Within control panel > Hardware and sound > sound > select output > configure. Then select 2.0 stereo.

    Now your receiver will only detect PCM 2.0 which is the requirements for it to enable Prologic II.

    (if you select 5.1 within windows, your receiver will get confused and disable Prologic).

    Edit: What Fr@nk said is correct. It has nothing to do with optical or HDMI. Its a configuration / windows issue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2016
  19. Dent1

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    It shouldn't be you thanking us, but the OP MilkyWay
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2016

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