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Discussion in 'System Builder's Advice' started by MilkyWay, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. MilkyWay

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    I have a friend who wants a new pc i got him to settle on a 4850 1gb for graphics all we need to settle is the cpu.

    He watched a video on youtube of someone claiming to run crysis on very high at 60fps with a x4 9950 and a 4850

    I kept saying get a phenom II x3 710 or a x4 810 or something similar.

    I mean come on if my hardware cant run crysis well on high then how is a phenom 1 and a 4850 going too.


    I recommended a quad because he does video editing and dosnt want to oc yes i had a lengthy discussion about it and he think it might break his whole system so let not try persuade anyone.
     
  2. MilkyWay

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  3. Darknova

    Darknova

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    No. Never was IMO. The only Phenoms worth buying were the Tri-cores because they were 95W chips instead of 140W chips, and could overclock to 3Ghz to give half-decent performance. 9950 was very poor performance per watt, plus it blew a lot of motherboards as they didn't support 140W chips back then.

    Don't even bother with a Phenom.

    Also, tell him that if he uses YouTube for PC advice he deserves to waste his money on shit.
     
  4. MilkyWay

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    thanks now someone else backs me up hopefully he wont waste his cash

    oh and now it has to be one of these pc http://www.cyberpowersystem.co.uk/r03/ri03.asp

    he wont build either turning all im trying to do is get him to spend his cash properly so he dosnt waste it

    "no no no i am not a hardcore gamer" "but this one runs crysis full max"
     
  5. MRCL

    MRCL

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    60 FPS on Crysis I was barely able to obtain such rates with a C2D on 4GHz and two 4890s, so no God damn way.
     
  6. MilkyWay

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    i know i wonder if he would join the forums to join in on this thread himself
     
  7. Darknova

    Darknova

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    Even on my 4870 I'm having trouble getting FPS above 45 on the max settings, which is why I don't use YouTube....
     
  8. MilkyWay

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    youtube is fake they dont even prove they are using that hardware it could be anything much more powerful

    and i bet it was jerky before fraps was used
     
  9. MRCL

    MRCL

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    I should have screenshots even with a quad core and two 4890s to prove that his desired configuration won't do the job.
     
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  10. MilkyWay

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    what should he be looking to get then like a Phenom II x3 720 or something like that?
    what about the intel side of things?
     
  11. MRCL

    MRCL

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    AMD wise I have no clue. Intel wise, if he wants to play on very high, it needs to be a fairly powerful quad core. I had a E8400 on friggin 4500MHz and still it lagged sometimes.
     
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  12. MilkyWay

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    Q8200 but its like 2.3ghz stock and he wont oc it at all

    at those speeds it would get beat by other cpu i think


    nah most he can realistically hope for is like medium/high like everyone else
     
  13. kid41212003

    kid41212003

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    I advise him get the fastest Core 2 duo, and the fastest single graphic card, that he can affords.

    E8500 + GTX275

    Crysis doesn't use 4 cores.
     
  14. MilkyWay

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    an E8200 and a 4850 would be okay but then i had that choice and went for a x3 720 and a gtx 260 hmmmn he does loads of video editing for a clan
     
  15. MilkyWay

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    Phenom x4 9950 is not worth buying!

    it dosnt matter, he will find out that whatever he buys cannot play crysis or gta even on a decent frame rate, he will find out oc'ing is needed for any cpu and that custom built is shit

    the price of a custom built is ridiculous

    hes off msn and i think ill just let him find a pc and let him discover all the bad things himself
     
  16. MRCL

    MRCL

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    Learning the hard way. Sometimes the best option. I went thru that, too. Bought a prebuilt rig for 2500 bucks, WAY overpriced. I learned from my mistakes.
     
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  17. filip007

    filip007 New Member

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  18. MilkyWay

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    well the other thing is he might actually be happy with his crap pre built thinking its the best :laugh:
     
  19. DrPepper

    DrPepper The Doctor is in the house

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    Second the E8500 and 275

    Although I'm quite sure crysis does use 4 cores.
     
  20. Icewind31

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    Maybe on 1024x768... w/ the quality of youtube videos you can never tell :rolleyes:

    *note I've noticed that the GTA4 video was only done in 1280x1024
     
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  21. HalfAHertz

    HalfAHertz

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    Well the Phenom is really not that bad. If the price is right, then go for it. As long as he doesn't play on something like 1280x1024, he'll be ok. For any resolution over 16xx performance is almost entirely GPU based. Also check out some reviews, in video encoding the 9950 beats the stock 720 in everything that can utilize 4 cores. 4 > 3
     
  22. MilkyWay

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    he has a budget of £500 thats why i recommended some of the stuff i did and a brand new phenom x4 9950 is a custom built pre built pc is going to cost full price like £120 or whatever it is these days and for that you can get a superior phenom 2
     
  23. HalfAHertz

    HalfAHertz

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  24. MilkyWay

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    that x4 810 would suit him, but he dosnt overclock he said it will burn his cpu like only a retard could burn a cpu its not like he would be doing major clocks but he WONT listen

    the gajilion of reviews show that at medium to high on a decent resolution the x4 9950 falls behind sure the extra core never hurts but its not worth the extra core to go back a step in tech
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009
  25. Velvet Wafer

    Velvet Wafer

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    why does he fear it will kill his whole rig?
    cant you just show him the tdp for both chips and a few reports about blewn mosfets on some boards (for the Phenom 1)? The thought of crackling and an open Flame in his rig will surely have its effect
     
  26. Darknova

    Darknova

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    Actually, that's a good idea.

    Tell him that you've heard lots or reports that the 9950 causes the MOSFETs to blow on motherboards under extended heavy load.

    For a guy who is so afraid of overclocking that should scare the hell out of him.
     
  27. MilkyWay

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    he thinks that overclocking will burn his cpu out or something like that and yes he is starting to sound like a retard :wtf:
     
  28. Ketxxx

    Ketxxx Heedless Psychic

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    AMD: Phenom X4 & HD4850 with the snot OCd out of it if he hopes to play Crysis maxed out.

    Intel: Q8400 (£137 off ebuyer, lambatek has it for £141) with a HD4850 and the snot OCd out of it.

    Tell him if he ever uses youtube for PC advice again I will slap him senceless with a frozen fish.
     
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  29. Darren

    Darren New Member

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    The Phenom 9950 BE is the same speed as the Q6600, so accross the board the Phenom 9950 BE would be faster than the Phenom II X3 710 in majority of real world and artificial benchmarks. The X3 might win in games by a few frames per second but overall its the slower processor due to lacking that extra core. So indeed the Phenom 9950 BE can max out Crysis, although for games the X3 would have the advantage as most games only supporting 2 threads and hence the X3 might pull ahead, also four threads are generally unsupported and because of the superior Deneb architecture in the X3 wins clock for clock. But certainly even in games the difference between the two processors are small.

    I agree a Phenom II series would be better e.g. Phenom II 720, 810 920, 940, 955 etc and you should encourage him to get one, but the 9950 is no slouch, its last year's high end X4.
     
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  30. boomstik360

    boomstik360

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    Simply put. No, not worth it, You can get a 720BE possibly unlock it, or overclock it and have way better performance. I mean they are alright CPU's but there are better ones for just alittle more money.
     
  31. Velvet Wafer

    Velvet Wafer

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    that happened. my actual board gets delivered without mosfet-cooling, so under 140w tdp the board went in flames more than just a few times... (just google my board + mosfet exploded)

    the phenom 1 is a defect product series in my eyes. it was born to fail.
     
  32. MilkyWay

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    the x3 720 pulls ahead of the x4 9950 by at least 10frames per second at my res 1680x1050 not to mention at higher res it starts to pull away

    at stock a q6600 will get beat by a x4 9950 but clock the cpu to 3.6ghz and the q6600 eats it for breakfast

    there to me isnt any point getting a brand new socket 775 rig as its starting to get old and has less upgrade options than say a phenom II or intel core i5/i7 rig, if you had a board then sure get a better cpu but a brand new rig for me no
     
  33. Flyordie

    Flyordie New Member

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    I thought they paraded around the "We support quads!" parade.
    I know Crysis Warhead uses 3 for Physics with the 4th doing "Texture Mounting" for the GPU.
    Just funky they wouldn't pass the benefits to the original Crysis via an update pack.
     
  34. Darren

    Darren New Member

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    It really depends on the game, but up to 10 FPS in games is believable the X3s are monsters in games we've seen them take on the i7s in games before. But as I said before the Phenom 9950 is just as powerful overall, if we were to factor in encoding, Photoshop etc the Phenom 9950 would have a huge advantage due to the extra core, in the next generation of games when 4 cores can be utilized you'll see those 10 FPS benefiting the 9950 instead.

    I'm not talking about overclocked, I'm just saying the Q6600 and Phenom II 9950 are around the same speed, so to say the Agena's can not handle Crysis is like saying the Kentfield's can not either.

    I agree, socket 775 is dead, the board should be abandoned completely for new builds.


    Edit:


    Remember I'm talking about new builds specifically,

    The Phenom II X2 550 and Athlon II X2 250 nullifies the E5200 build whilst still benefiting from the ability to drop in AMDs new 6 core desktop CPUs in an ancient AM2/AM2+ board and hence upgrability isn't as dormant as socket 775.
     
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  35. tastegw

    tastegw

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    i disagree with that last part, budget builds + E5200 make a good pair.
     
  36. Darren

    Darren New Member

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    Just to add a bit of reality to our humble debate, putting gaming aside. I would like to illustrate advantage of the Agena Phenom X4 9950's additional core in comparison to the Deneb Phenom II X3 710 - I would like to also remind you that both CPUs are clocked at 2.6 GHz by default.

    Lower is better


    1.) Adobe Photoshop CS3

    Phenom X4 9950: 28.6
    Phenom II X3 710: 30.9

    2.) DivX 8.5.3 with Xmpeg 5.0.3

    Phenom X4 9950: 60.8
    Phenom II X3 710: 62.8


    Higher is better

    3.) x264 HD Video Encoding first pass

    Phenom X4 9950: 57.5
    Phenom II X3 710: 48.8

    5.) x264 HD Video Encoding first pass

    Phenom X4 9950: 14.9
    Phenom II X3 710: 11


    Lower is better

    6.) Windows Media Encoder 9 x64 Advanced

    Phenom X4 9950: 38
    Phenom II X3 710: 54

    Higher is better

    3dsmax 9 - SPECapc 3dsmax CPU Rendering

    Phenom X4 9950: 9
    Phenom II X3 710: 7.4

    7.) Cinebench R10 single thread

    Phenom X4 9950: 2764
    Phenom II X3 710: 3041


    8.) Cinebench R10 Multi-threaded

    Phenom X4 9950: 10252
    Phenom II X3 710: 8128


    9.) POV-Ray 3.73 beta 23 Ray Tracing

    Phenom X4 9950: 1760
    Phenom II X3 710: 1546


    Lower is better

    10.) PAR2 Multithreaded Archive Recovery

    Phenom X4 9950: 41.4
    Phenom II X3 710: 50.6


    11.) Blender 2.48a

    Phenom X4 9950: 75.5
    Phenom II X3 710: 86

    12.) Microsoft Excel 2007

    Phenom X4 9950: 45.3
    Phenom II X3 710: 43.1

    13.) Sony Vegas Pro 8: Blu-ray Disc Creation

    Phenom X4 9950: 300
    Phenom II X3 710:319.8

    14.) Sorenson Squeeze: FLV Creation

    Phenom X4 9950: 175.1
    Phenom II X3 710: 220.7

    15.) WinRAR - Archive Creation

    Phenom X4 9950: 151.9
    Phenom II X3 710: 138


    So to conclude, the Phenom X4 9550 wins 12 out of 15 in the benchmarks, this shows that although the Deneb core is faster than the Agena core, the Deneb X3s lack of third core makes it slower than the Agena with 4 cores overall. (Although in gaming the Deneb X3s might appear faster than the Agena in reality its because the majorty of games are not multi-threaded, however as more games become multi-threaded we'll see the X4 Agena defeating the X3 Deneb in games in addition as proven in the encoding, rendering, and compression benchmarks which are multi-threaded.

    Review from Anantech
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
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  37. jmcslob

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    Look at my specs: their ok,not so bad huh, a little better than a 9950 and a 4850 and uh I CAN"T FUCKING PLAY CRYSIS AT 60FPS at HIGH SETTINGS Maybe an average of 30 MAYBE...... and maybe 10 FUCKING frames PER SECOND at highest
    EDIT: not sure but last i heard and i could be wrong but CRYSIS does not support cross fire
    60 fps WTF!!! yeah that's BULLSHIT
     
  38. Darren

    Darren New Member

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    If you want 60 FPS or higher on Crysis all max'd out you'd need more than a ATI 4850. Although I do not believe you get only 10 FPS, you'd get around 30-45 FPS.

    To be honest Crysis is just poorly optimised I wouldn't cry about it I've read threads on other forums where people with i7s and 4870X2s are crying over Crysis's shoddy frame rates, its not the hardwares fault its Crysis's crack smoking development team.

    Edit:

    mcslob, it is possible to get 60 FPS with a 9950, unfortunately the threadstarter didn't state the resolution, on a smaller monitor 17' or 19' one can achieve 60 FPS with most of the detail if not all at high.

    Edit 2:


    I agree the Phenom X4 810 is a better choice for a quad core, the X3s may be faster in games, but only by a few frame rates in games, read my above post where I compare the Agena's X4 to the Deneb X3!
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
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