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Enermax Power Supplies Support Forthcoming Haswell CPUs

btarunr

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#1
Intel has just released more details about the new Haswell processors. It sets new benchmarks in terms of energy efficiency. The new C6 and C7 states are able to reduce the CPU power consumption to just 0.05A while previous Ivy Bridge processors draw up to ten times more minimum power.

But the positive progress of the CPU technology is subject to certain restrictions, because only few power supplies will be able to deliver stable voltages at such low loads. End users are therefore groping in the dark with no clues if their own power supply will be compatible with the new energy functions of Intel Haswell CPUs. PSU manufacturers usually do not state the possible minimum load of their products.

Show full news post
 
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#2
Now i know my Seasonic X660 is totally safe, coz the DC to DC is seasonic's tech someone correct me if I'm wrong

Special Features -

80PLUS® Gold Certified Super High Efficiency
Full Modular Cabling Design
Patented DC Connector Module with Integrated VRM [Voltage Regulator Module]
DC to DC Converter Design
Seasonic Hybrid Silent Fan Control
Sanyo Denki San Ace Silent Fan
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Tight Voltage Regulation [±3%]
Active Power Factor Correction [99% PF Typical]
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Ultra Ventilation [Honeycomb Structure]
Multi-GPU Technologies Supported
All-in-One DC Cabling Design
Easy Swap Connector
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5 Years Warranty
From http://www.seasonicusa.com/NEW_X-series_560-660-760-850.htm
 
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#3
DC-DC design just refers to that the minor rails (5/3.3V) are no longer converted from mains AC, but from 12VDC. This simplifies design and makes things much more efficient.

However not all PSUs even of this design can run at near 0W loads, so you'd have to check before enabling C7 sleep.
 
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#4
This is just another half-arsed Intel effort to lower power consumption because they can't do the job properly in their CPU/APUs. Intel's approach is at odds with all U.S. and European PSU efficiency standards.

As far as the Seasonic data listed above it does not tell you anything about the minimum 12V rail power under minimum load conditions. This is something that will need to be published (now) by all PSU makers due to Intel's stupidity and non-compliance with world power efficiency standards.
 
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#5
C6 state is nothing new. My rather old Nehalem already has it. Not sure why the brag about it.

Besides, is this really the best way to market it? I mean, they are saying it in a way like you need some super special PSU just to use the Haswell...
 
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#6
Only time will tell witch PSUs will have problems with haswell
 
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#7
C6 state is nothing new. My rather old Nehalem already has it. Not sure why the brag about it.

Besides, is this really the best way to market it? I mean, they are saying it in a way like you need some super special PSU just to use the Haswell...
Well, I'm using an older Bronze rated PSU with a Seasonic core and it has quite high minimum load ratings, so I doubt I can get away with C7. Previously with teh VRM on the motherboard, you could shutdown all power to a CPU core, even though the motherboard was still draawing power and turning it into heat. With the VRM controller now on the CPU, the PSU must be able to regulate from 0W.
 
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#8
omg another reason to upgrade.......it never ends. The PSU used to be one of the few devices you could keep for a long time and last a few upgrades.

I guess this power state is not enabled by default so most wont need to upgrade unless they want it.

It sounds like a massive power saving though, I wouldn't mind having it.
 
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#10
About $7 annually.
How did you work that out?? If its 10x more efficient seems like it would be more.

How much does a normal computer cost to run a year? I did see some story on a website that broke it down, I think it was a few hundred a year or something but cant remember exactly. I guess it will only help if your computer is idle a lot, like if you keep it on overnight.

It would be good for temps and noise, the other thing is for mobile battery life. If you can get an extra hour or 2 outta the battery, that's a big deal.

That's the thing with modern power saving devices, individually it might not seem like its worthwhile, but if you have several devices and electronics through the house, all with modern power saving features, it can start to become worthwhile and will save hundreds every year.

Also if you're a business with hundreds/thousands of computers that are on 24/7 it can be worthwhile too.
 

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#11
Shouldn't any ATX PSU work on haswell or is there something that it has that requires a new PSU?
 
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#12

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#13
i thought it was easier to give stable voltage at lower loads :O
 

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#14
i thought it was easier to give stable voltage at lower loads :O
Easier how? If the 5v/3.5v sides run off their own rectifier from AC? Yes I would have thought so as well.
 

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#15
"ErP Lot 6 requires that <0.5W Standby (S5) no WoL beginning in 1H 2013."

"As of 2010 the standby power consumption of new products has to be less than 1 Watt or 2 Watts. These values will be lowered in 2013 to 0.5 Watt and 1 Watt, which is close to the levels achievable with best available technology."
http://www.relec.es/RECICLADO_ELECTRONICO/Legislacion/EuPLot6Pressrelease.pdf
 
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#16
How did you work that out?? If its 10x more efficient seems like it would be more.
It could be 100x more efficient, but if we're talking 5W vs .5W there's isn't much to be saved really. By my calculations it should be less than $7.

Let's say your power costs 12c per kW/h, and your spiffy new Haswell system is going to spend all of 365 days in C7 sleep (awesome, I know! buy a new system and make it idle all-year-long, but that's how we roll :roll:):

The difference between Ivy and Haswell is 5.7W in sleep mode:

5.7W * 24 hours * 365 days = 49.9 kWh a year
* 12c per kWh = a whopping $5.9 saved per annum! :rockout: AWESOMESAUCE!!! :respect:
 
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#17
Shouldn't any ATX PSU work on haswell or is there something that it has that requires a new PSU?
Dude, that's the point of the article... or maybe Enermax is just playing the fear game.

We need crmaris to come to the rescue! The PSU review voltage regulation testing part may provide the answer:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CoolerMaster/V1000/5.html
The new haswell architecture will require a 0.05Amp current over the 12v2 rail when entering c6/c7 power states, much lower than current gen (which only requires 0.5Amps) which is NOT standard even on pro-grade PSUs
 
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#18
How did you work that out?? If its 10x more efficient seems like it would be more.
It could be 100x more efficient, but if we're talking .5W vs .005W there's isn't much to be saved really. By my calculations it should be much less than $7.
Yes it's obviously much less than $7, but I was just making a joke with a random low number. I don't think that C6 vs C7 would really matter on an annual scale, even if you would use a 98% efficient PicoPSU.

This new C7 is obviously targeting the mobile segment where every bit and saved power matters. It's just that the guys at Enermax are doing a very clever thing by jumping on this C7 thingy. Props to them for this idea, and they indeed deserve credit if sales will go up because of this campaign.
 
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#19
The new haswell architecture will require a 0.05Amp current over the 12v2 rail when entering c6/c7 power states, much lower than current gen (which only requires 0.5Amps) which is NOT standard even on pro-grade PSUs
The effective resistance on the 12v rail will be 240 ohms. So you are saying a decent PSU can't deliver 0.05A ? What will it do, drop to 0 volts?

I don't think this will be a problem.

This new C7 is obviously targeting the mobile segment where every bit and saved power matters. It's just that the guys at Enermax are doing a very clever thing by jumping on this C7 thingy. Props to them for this idea, and they indeed deserve credit if sales will go up because of this campaign.
^This +1
 
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#20
The effective resistance on the 12v rail will be 240 ohms. So you are saying a decent PSU can't deliver 0.05A ? What will it do, drop to 0 volts?

I don't think this will be a problem.



^This +1
It is ... because current gen only required a callback of 0.5 Amps to wake up, but im sure some kind of calibration could be implemented through the BIOS for these new power state requirements

http://vr-zone.com/articles/is-your-power-supply-ready-for-haswell-/19848.html
 
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#21
Yes it's obviously much less than $7, but I was just making a joke with a random low number. I don't think that C6 vs C7 would really matter on an annual scale, even if you would use a 98% efficient PicoPSU.
Actually I re-did things and it seems $7 isn't too far off the mark so +1 for your estimation skills.
 
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#22
It is ... because current gen only required a callback of 0.5 Amps to wake up, but im sure some kind of calibration could be implemented through the BIOS for these new power state requirements

http://vr-zone.com/articles/is-your-power-supply-ready-for-haswell-/19848.html
Good link... looks like a wait and see:

Update: 30/4 - Cyril from The Tech Report has also independently confirmed our story and went on to get a statement about it from Corsair's Robert Pierce that the company will be working to check their power supplies for the minimum load compliance.
Read more: http://vr-zone.com/articles/is-your-power-supply-ready-for-haswell-/19848.html#ixzz2S8jr3XFm
 
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#23
The difference between Ivy and Haswell is 5.7W in sleep mode:

5.7W * 24 hours * 365 days = 49.9 kWh a year
* 12c per kWh = a whopping $5.9 saved per annum! :rockout: AWESOMESAUCE!!! :respect:
Ok fair enough.... but our electricity rate is closer to 20c kw/h so lets say $10 a year....but that's just one part of your PC. If you have a GPU that does something similar, a motherboard, a monitor etc it might be $30 over the year for the computer as a whole. Then you might have 2 or 3 computers in the house so that's $90 a year.

Or you might be upgrading from a Pentium 4 (not the most recent fairly efficient ivy bridge) so it might be double that again.

Then if you have a bunch of other electronics, tvs, hifis, air conditioning, heaters, refrigerator, light bulbs etc all with modern power saving features, all this can add up to hundreds a year.

If you're a business still running 300 Pentium 4's computers it could be hundreds a year.

So yeh, I'm a fan of power saving,:cool: it adds up over the long term!!!
 
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#24
Oh lawd...


Anyone know if OCZ's Fatalit1y 1000W is good to go? God damn Intel...
 
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#25
Hahah ! Hey we all need a PSU upgrade for Haswell !!