• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

EU Changes VAT Rules for Imported Products; Everything to be Taxed Independent of Value

Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
4,994 (1.74/day)
Location
Kiev, Ukraine
System Name WS#1337
Processor Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard ASUS X570-PLUS TUF Gaming
Cooling Xigmatek Scylla 240mm AIO
Memory 4x8GB G.Skill Ares OEM DDR4-3200 (B-die)
Video Card(s) GTX 1070 Ti
Storage Adata SX8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) Samsung U24E590D (4K/UHD)
Case ghetto CM Cosmos RC-1000
Audio Device(s) ALC1220
Power Supply SeaSonic SSR-550FX (80+ GOLD)
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Modecom Volcano Blade (Kailh choc LP)
Software Windows 10, Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
This is purely to bring manufacturing back and not fully rely on China doing it for cheap. Not going to pretend that the average Joe will dislike it, but average Joe does not think longterm, which is where this should help.
Dream on. The reason EU decided to strengthen VAT enforcement, is because it's a big stream of tax revenue, not because it will miraculously increase internal manufacturing.
If anything, they'll have more motivation to increase imports, cause people will complain for a bit, but keep buying cheaper alternative and pay taxes.
I'd suggest you buying your stuff from China and stuff from EU. Tell me which ones blows up faster and second where do you go to claim warranty?
Looks like someone doesn't know where most of EU consumer goods are made at.
Most of these small packages are small, cheap consumer goods. I can tell you right now, that a name-branded Chinese electronics is two classes above rebranded EU electroncis. Textile can be debateable, but only in regions that previously had decent manufacturing. In most cases it's the same scheme - order from Chinese, Taiwanese, Indian, or Turkish factory, customize packaging and labels, import at atificially reduced value and pay VAT, throw a "made in [insert your country here]" label along with 100% upmark and profit. Everything depends on how much that EU/US company values quality over margin. That's how we end up with cheapified rebranded Clevo laptops that break in half around the time your warranty expires, that's how we end up with "European" phones pre-loaded with chinese adware and spyware, that's how we get IoT devices with 10y.o. unpatched vulnerabilities etc.etc.etc. The most you can get nowadays is "assembled in [whatever]", but that's hardly an indicator of quality.

Just a little example: back in a day I used to order running shoes every 2 years or so. One pair of Nikes is already past its 8th birthday and only needs a trip to shoemaker's workshop for heel padding replacement. Nowadays a typical pair of Nikes or NewBalances costs the same if not more( $60+ incl VAT for the cheapest pair in my area) but at least in my case lasts no more than 3-4 months.... everything falls apart except soles (and I no longer run or go to the gym). So, now I've switched to $15 "registered in Ukraine"(e.g. made in China) brand 'cause at least I have an expectation of it to last that much for the price (though it's already outlasting old shitty NB).
Warranty is a touchy topic, but the majority of reputable sellers on Aliexpress will honor warranty if you are willing to pay shipping to China (which in most countries is only viable for more expensive stuff).
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
2,955 (3.12/day)
Location
Poland
Processor Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling BeQuiet Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x16 GB Crucial Ballistix 3600 CL16 Rev E
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 6GB SSC
Storage SX8200 Pro 1 TB, Plextor M6Pro 256 GB, WD Blue 2TB
Display(s) Acer XB273GP
Case SilverStone Primera PM01 RGB
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse SteelSeries Rival 300
Keyboard MK Typist (Kailh Box White)
You can't really only blame shady sellers/customers for this. The standard policy for our customs was this - if it's under €150 you won't get charged anything, no customs fee but they also won't charge you VAT (probably because they think it's not worth it). If it is over €150 you'll get charged full VAT and customs fee.
If you used anything like UPS, FEDEX or DHL you were screwed anyway since they'd charge you handling fee AND would also "handle" the customs for you. Which means they'd charge you VAT for the package, even if it was under €150 simply because that's the law, right? That's why sometimes opting for USPS was a better option, although it would take a lot longer to deliver.
You could still get lucky if the fee listed on the invoice was in currency other than USD or EUR (given you used regular postage and not a courier company). Two packages that I got from Japan and had fees listed in JPY passed customs without any fee's despite value being well above €150 - they didn't even open them to verify the content.
Now my $80 package (that's including $22 for shipping) is sitting at USPS' Miami facility for over a month (thanks COVID) and by the time it arrives I'll probably get charged VAT for it on arrival.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
294 (1.10/day)
Location
Exexfirstladyland
Processor i5-6600K
Motherboard Asus Z170A
Cooling some cheap Cooler Master
Memory 16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) IGP
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250GB
Display(s) 2x Oldell 24" 1920x1200
Case Bitfenix Nova white windowless
Audio Device(s) E-mu 1212m PCI
Power Supply Seasonic G-360
Mouse Logitech Marble trackball, never had a mouse
Keyboard Key Tronic KT2000, no Win key because 1994
Software Oldwin
VAT is bad because it is not a progressive tax - the rich pay the same VAT% as the poor. i would've expected the EU to have progressive economics as opposed to regressive, "trickle-down" economics, which don't work and create monopolies. i guess socialism is alive and well in the EU (i don't live in EU and not in US)
How could VAT be progressive? Should the rate be based on how much you buy monthly? Should very rich people be (even more) discouraged from spending and rather hoard (even more)?

In fact, it is progressive, as food is taxed at a reduced rate, and often pharmaceuticals and books are, too. As far as I can check, it isn't much different in the US, but sales tax rates are much lower there.
Edit: There's at least one valid argument against reduced rates: that's how food and drug industry gets subsidised, not only the consumers.

Dream on. The reason EU decided to strengthen VAT enforcement, is because it's a big stream of tax revenue, not because it will miraculously increase internal manufacturing.
I can't argue with that, but why should only low-value imports from China, of all things, be left untaxed?
Edit: and even if those low-value imports accumulate to, say, a couple hundred €€€ every month?

(Not to mention that China subsidises shipping to other parts of the world, but miraculously, not from the other parts of the world to them.)
Just a little example: back in a day I used to order running shoes every 2 years or so. One pair of Nikes is already past its 8th birthday and only needs a trip to shoemaker's workshop for heel padding replacement. Nowadays a typical pair of Nikes or NewBalances costs the same if not more( $60+ incl VAT for the cheapest pair in my area) but at least in my case lasts no more than 3-4 months.... everything falls apart except soles (and I no longer run or go to the gym). So, now I've switched to $15 "registered in Ukraine"(e.g. made in China) brand 'cause at least I have an expectation of it to last that much for the price (though it's already outlasting old shitty NB).
Warranty is a touchy topic, but the majority of reputable sellers on Aliexpress will honor warranty if you are willing to pay shipping to China (which in most countries is only viable for more expensive stuff).
I only have my anecdotal evidence, here it is:
2005: Asics GT 2100 running shoes, 115 EUR, made in China, good quality
2007: Asics GT 2120 running shoes, 125 EUR, made in China, good quality
2009: Asics GT 2140 running shoes, made in China, good quality
2010: Salomon hiking shoes, 80 EUR, made in Vietnam, fell apart soon (everything)
2012: Asics GT 2170 running shoes, 130 EUR, made in Vietnam, fell apart soon (mesh and heel padding)
Guess what I looked for when buying my next sports shoes.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
4,994 (1.74/day)
Location
Kiev, Ukraine
System Name WS#1337
Processor Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard ASUS X570-PLUS TUF Gaming
Cooling Xigmatek Scylla 240mm AIO
Memory 4x8GB G.Skill Ares OEM DDR4-3200 (B-die)
Video Card(s) GTX 1070 Ti
Storage Adata SX8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) Samsung U24E590D (4K/UHD)
Case ghetto CM Cosmos RC-1000
Audio Device(s) ALC1220
Power Supply SeaSonic SSR-550FX (80+ GOLD)
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Modecom Volcano Blade (Kailh choc LP)
Software Windows 10, Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
(Not to mention that China subsidises shipping to other parts of the world, but miraculously, not from the other parts of the world to them.)
Export is a big part of economics and contributes a lot to economic growth. Even then, these subsidies are already stretched to the limit and because of that quite recently they've introduced things like "combined shipping" : e.g. if you have several parcels from different sellers going through the same delivery service, they get combined into one box before going to Chinese customs. Caused quite a headache last week, since that was the first time I had to deal with customs under new laws and regulations. We spent several hours with local customs broker (rep. from parcel company), waited few days for approval, on the other end customs had to perform at least 1 hour of work detailing every item and comparing prices in shipping manifest, customs database, my receipts etc, then carefully pack everything back, and all of that crap for a measly ₴220 (equiv. €6.82) of additional tax money. Tell me how that makes any economical sense?... The only reason VAT isn't as effective as it should've been, is simply corruption and lack of enforcement on the highest level. We still have cargo ships and trucks in EU and CIS that move around, let's say, your ASICS valued at $2/ea in shipping manifest, or hi-end consumer electronics shipped as recycling material. Technically it's not even contraband, but it's worse than contraband due to the simple fact that these goods can be resold legally afterwards. That's the biggest multi-billion euro problem, not some odd couple millions of average Joes and Janes that skimped on few euros worth of VAT on Chinese new year.

Regarding second part: when you send something back - you are paying your local parcel service - that's who you should complain to regarding costs. Govt.-owned postal services are generally cheaper(in some cases on-par with China Post). For example a simple envelope or small documents package to Zone2 (NA, China, Mongolia) through Ukrposhta costs around $7-8. Same package through third-party will run as high as $50. I'm not even gonna mention FedEx, DHL and UPS, cause these guys have been so far up their asses for the past decade(at least regarding international deliveries), that you can't even make fun of their prices and quality of service.
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
617 (0.17/day)
Location
South-Africa
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard Asus ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING (WI-FI)
Cooling Corsair iCUE H115i Elite Capellix 280mm
Memory 32GB G.Skill DDR4 3600Mhz CL18
Video Card(s) Palit RTX 3070Ti GamingPro
Storage 250GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD
Display(s) Dell S3220DGF
Case Corsair iCUE 4000X
Audio Device(s) ASUS Xonar D2X
Power Supply Corsair AX760 Platinum
Mouse Glorious Model O - Wireless
Keyboard Corsair K70 MK.2 Low-Profile Rapidfire
Software Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (64-bit)
1624215369568.png
 
Joined
Oct 10, 2018
Messages
783 (0.72/day)
Well, I do not like taxes, but come on people stop buying from the piece of land, that is a threat to humanity and you and your children! pay a little bit more, have a piece of mind !
 
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
752 (1.54/day)
System Name Main PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard ASUS X570 Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi)
Cooling EKWB X570 VIII Hero Monoblock, 2x XD5, Heatkiller IV SB block for chipset,Alphacool 3090 Strix block
Memory 4x16GB 3200-14-14-14-34 G.Skill Trident RGB (OC: 3600-14-14-14-28)
Video Card(s) ASUS RTX 3090 Strix OC
Storage 500GB+500GB SSD RAID0, Fusion IoDrive2 1.2TB, Huawei HSSD 2TB, 11TB on server used for steam
Display(s) Dell LG CX48 (custom res: 3840x1620@120Hz) + Acer XB271HU 2560x1440@144Hz
Case Corsair 1000D
Audio Device(s) Sennheiser HD599, Blue Yeti
Power Supply Corsair RM1000i
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB MK2
Software Windows 10 Pro 20H2
Good to know! I see that in Norway, the future is now.
Many sellers on AliExpress ship from multiple warehouses and you have a choice to have stuff delivered from China or EU. Can I expect to pay for customs processing if I order from China, and not pay if I order from EU?
You (if you were in Norway) won't have to pay customs processing at all since it's all handled by AliExpress through the VOEC-program. What you see in the checkout is all you need to pay.
EU or China is irrelevant for the final price. They'll both cost the same if the product+shipping costs the same.
 

INSTG8R

Vanguard Beta Tester
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
7,113 (1.16/day)
Location
Canuck in Norway
System Name Hellbox 4.0(same case new guts)
Processor Ryzen 5 5600X
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus X570 Pro
Cooling TT Kandalf L.C.S.(Water/Air)EK Velocity CPU Block/Noctua
Memory 2x16GB Gskill Trident Neo Z 3800CL18
Video Card(s) Sapphire 6700XT Nitro+
Storage 970 Evo Plus 500GB WD Caviar Black SATA 3 1TB x2 RAID1 2xSamsung 850 Evo 500GB RAID 0 1TB WD Blue
Display(s) Samsung Odyssey G5 34” 3440x1440 165hz
Case TT Kandalf L.C.S.
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster ZX/Logitech Z906 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic X-1050W 80+ Gold
Mouse G502 Proteus Spectrum
Keyboard G19s
VR HMD Oculus Quest 2
Software Win 10 Pro x64
And Amazon is ready to open bottles of Champagne!
Nah I’m in Norway and 80% of time I buy something Amazon their the tax+shipping costs the same or more than what I’m buying. I can’t even make use of Prime..Norway is in the EEA and many EU countries won’t even ship to me or else a very high tariff
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
35 (0.33/day)
Well, I do not like taxes, but come on people stop buying from the piece of land, that is a threat to humanity and you and your children! pay a little bit more, have a piece of mind !
Who does, and if your someone like Bezos he pays next to nothing.Anyone signed the petition to keep him in space.?

You (if you were in Norway) won't have to pay customs processing at all since it's all handled by AliExpress through the VOEC-program. What you see in the checkout is all you need to pay.
EU or China is irrelevant for the final price. They'll both cost the same if the product+shipping costs the same.
Talking about Ali Express i bought a Thunderbolt m2 case.I had to pay 25 pound customs charge.I understand that it should have had it was a gift on it as to not have to pay customs charges.I have been told i was unlucky to have been charged the custom charge.As it is the Thunderbolt m2 case is a good case and the full 40gb.It was a no name brand someone else on another forum said it was good so i got it.It cost 60 pounds a couple of years ago.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
35 (0.33/day)
Export is a big part of economics and contributes a lot to economic growth. Even then, these subsidies are already stretched to the limit and because of that quite recently they've introduced things like "combined shipping" : e.g. if you have several parcels from different sellers going through the same delivery service, they get combined into one box before going to Chinese customs. Caused quite a headache last week, since that was the first time I had to deal with customs under new laws and regulations. We spent several hours with local customs broker (rep. from parcel company), waited few days for approval, on the other end customs had to perform at least 1 hour of work detailing every item and comparing prices in shipping manifest, customs database, my receipts etc, then carefully pack everything back, and all of that crap for a measly ₴220 (equiv. €6.82) of additional tax money. Tell me how that makes any economical sense?... The only reason VAT isn't as effective as it should've been, is simply corruption and lack of enforcement on the highest level. We still have cargo ships and trucks in EU and CIS that move around, let's say, your ASICS valued at $2/ea in shipping manifest, or hi-end consumer electronics shipped as recycling material. Technically it's not even contraband, but it's worse than contraband due to the simple fact that these goods can be resold legally afterwards. That's the biggest multi-billion euro problem, not some odd couple millions of average Joes and Janes that skimped on few euros worth of VAT on Chinese new year.

Regarding second part: when you send something back - you are paying your local parcel service - that's who you should complain to regarding costs. Govt.-owned postal services are generally cheaper(in some cases on-par with China Post). For example a simple envelope or small documents package to Zone2 (NA, China, Mongolia) through Ukrposhta costs around $7-8. Same package through third-party will run as high as $50. I'm not even gonna mention FedEx, DHL and UPS, cause these guys have been so far up their asses for the past decade(at least regarding international deliveries), that you can't even make fun of their prices and quality of service.
Hi i don,t know why it is but my post on *Bank Transfer ebay uk to Germany*has been removed from the site?And all the times i posted on that forum.?
 

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
8,964 (1.48/day)
Location
Dorset where else eh? >>> Thats ENGLAND<<<
Hi i don,t know why it is but my post on *Bank Transfer ebay uk to Germany*has been removed from the site?And all the times i posted on that forum.?

was moved by mod to Lounge area
 

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
8,964 (1.48/day)
Location
Dorset where else eh? >>> Thats ENGLAND<<<
This new forum called "The Lounge" is a community asset where members can go to discuss non tech related stuff.

In order to read/post in the Lounge a member must have been:
  • registered for at least 3 months
  • AND
  • have a post count of at least 50 posts (i.e. be an active member of our community).
There will be no post count from participating in this forum.

Unlike the main forums, new posts will not show up in the new posts function, instead members will need to check the forum manually, but they will receive mentions and notifications for subscribed and participated threads
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Messages
81 (0.08/day)
Location
Kaunas/Klaipeda, Lithuania
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 1700
Motherboard Asus X470-I Strix
Cooling Jank AIO (Cooler Master Seidon 240P rad + Fractal Design Silent LL 120 fans)
Memory Just about any under the Sun. See https://www.reddit.com/user/raven_rampkin/comments/kvyf1a/roverclo
Video Card(s) Powercolor RX580 8GB Red Dragon V2
Storage 1TB Kioxia Exceria NVMe M.2
Display(s) LG 22MK430H-B
Case Gembird Fornax 970B
Power Supply Seasonic SSR-550FX
Mouse Westrom (store brand) with the RGBs
Keyboard Aula Dawnguard
Software Win10 Education
Until now (in Greece)
0 - 22 euros >>>>free
22 - 150 >>>> VAT plus custom expenses
150 and up >>>>> VAT plus custom expenses plus duties

From July 1st
0 - 150 euros >>>> ONLY VAT
150 and up >>>> VAT plus custom expenses
I think our national service overrode that.
 
Top