Evolutionary Theory

[digibucc]

Are you referring to this?
http://bigthink.com/ideas/26647 (Michio Kaku addressing the direction of contemporary human evolution)



You're not an idiot.

Here's an example of an idiot I met once:
I was talking to an acquaintance about why she likes to paint. I mentioned that I'm fond of charcoal/pencil drawings because I'm colorblind. She said, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry. Does that mean you're retarded?"
I paused for a brief second and replied solemnly, "Yes."

True story.

wow, well thanks for that

yes, that's where i got it all from
i don't like michio kaku though, so i was
hesitant to just point to him in my defense ...

 

[wahdangun]

we've already covered that, that is not true. without selective pressure darwin's evolution halts. it doesn't end, or stop - but it's also not happening. it ... pauses.

no, its not. Evolution never slow down or even halt. its just a slow process. And actually human species is still relatively young.
and btw there is no way We would lost our limb because there are no pressure, we use it everyday. Do you think snake lost its limb because it was no pressure in is? The answer is no, because actually the limb is getting away and the snake ancestor who have less limb actually have greater success and t'd trait is passed down and every generation the limb become smaller and smaller until it was gone.

 

[digibucc]

no, its not. Evolution never slow down or even halt. its just a slow process. And actually human species is still relatively young.
and btw there is no way We would lost our limb because there are no pressure, we use it everyday. Do you think snake lost its limb because it was no pressure in is? The answer is no, because actually the limb is getting away and the snake ancestor who have less limb actually have greater success and t'd trait is passed down and every generation the limb become smaller and smaller until it was gone.

take second to read the posts right before yours, and then come back.
i already admitted where i was at fault, and clarified my position.

thanks for the rehash though.

@streetfighter -

i agree on the view of kaku, he gets paid to talk is all.

and i am sure there is more to it, but it does make sense (to me at least)
that short of a worldwide event, (including colonization of space) we are
not likely to change much if at all. the one thing i do disagree with is the
time. yes, obviously most evolutionary changes take place over a long, LONG
period of time, beyond human understanding even - but that is not a necessity.

though hundreds would indeed be pushing it, and is not worth even really
discussing, it's entirely possible that evolutionary change could happen withing
the span of a few hundred years. it would obviously depend on the species, and
the situation.

 

[wahdangun]

take second to read the posts right before yours, and then come back.
i already admitted where i was at fault, and clarified my position.

thanks for the rehash though.

@streetfighter -

i agree on the view of kaku, he gets paid to talk is all.

and i am sure there is more to it, but it does make sense (to me at least)
that short of a worldwide event, (including colonization of space) we are
not likely to change much if at all. the one thing i do disagree with is the
time. yes, obviously most evolutionary changes take place over a long, LONG
period of time, beyond human understanding even - but that is not a necessity.

though hundreds would indeed be pushing it, and is not worth even really
discussing, it's entirely possible that evolutionary change could happen withing
the span of a few hundred years. it would obviously depend on the species, and
the situation.

sorry i didn't see it.

Actually we already evolved, the thalasemia is our response to malaria out break many century ago.

or there are a village in africa that have evolved ostrich like leg.

just google it if you didn't believe me

 

[Winston_008]

sorry i didn't see it.

Actually we already evolved, the thalasemia is our response to malaria out break many century ago.

or there are a village in africa that have evolved ostrich like leg.

just google it if you didn't believe me

That example isnt real evolution, its only an example of microevolution, and also show me the site where you found this apparant ostrich like leg i googled and found nothing.

 

[wahdangun]

That example isnt real evolution, its only an example of microevolution, and also show me the site where you found this apparant ostrich like leg i googled and found nothing.

its still evolution, do you think our ancestor turn from a monkey to human in one night?

Btw here the link to ostrich people :

best-ostrich-info-online.com/ostrichpeople.html

 

[Deleted member 67555]

I have nothing really useful to add other than to say the title is dumb...
I refuse to call evolution a theory.

 

[wahdangun]

I have nothing really useful to add other than to say the title is dumb...
I refuse to call evolution a theory.

so its real right ? Or what? Please make it clear and add something so I know why its dumb.

 

[GSquadron]

i have a friend, who is relatively well educated, and
definitely takes science and mathematics seriously.

we were talking awhile ago, and he made the
statement that:

"given enough time, and the fact that people are becoming
increasingly inactive, leading sedentary lives - eventually
humans will evolve to have no legs". as though, our lifestyle
affects our DNA with such magnitude, as to rewrite our
physical form.

i took the opportunity to explain that evolution is nothing
without evolutionary pressure. that some outside force that
makes one mutation advantageous specifically to the point
that it allows it's holder to spread it's DNA more abundantly,
is necessary.

a few days ago someone posited that a civilization billions
of years older than us would necessarily be billions of years
"more" evolved.

now maybe someone with a better understanding can correct
me ( i hope not ) but that's simply not true, is it?

from my understanding, that pressure is 100% necessary,
without it evolution grinds to a halt. we are already evolved
enough that we have almost no evolutionary pressure. And
therefore, short of an extinction event, are unlikely to evolve
biologically, naturally.

sorry so long, what's the consensus?

As far as i know, everything that happens in our lifes was meant to evolve us.
But there are also things which make us go back in terms of evolution.
Don't get yourself down as all wrong things that happen where meant for good in our life.
It will come a moment when you will say thank you to all bad people.

 

[digibucc]

I refuse to call evolution a theory.

thanks for that.

it just goes to highlight how ignorant most people are of science, and it's
definition of the word "theory"

you can do whatever you want, including refuse to call something by
it's proper label. have fun .

 

[Peter1986C]

Possibly, jmcslob means that it's not a theory because it is proven in his/her opinion. Once proven a theory is not a theory anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong,but IIRC (from the methodology lectures I've had) a theory is a "framework" in which you put your hypotheses to be put to the test, and a way to describe your thoughts and expectations related to your research.

 

[digibucc]

Possibly, jmcslob means that it's not a theory because it is proven in his/her opinion. Once proven a theory is not a theory anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong,but IIRC (from the methodology lectures I've had) a theory is a "framework" in which you put your hypotheses to be put to the test, and a way to describe your thoughts and expectations related to your research.

a theory is a collection of facts that describes something accurately. or rather,
a theory is the leading description for a collection of facts.

it goes hypothesis -> test -> fact -> facts -> theory

i assumed that's what he meant. but whether you believe it to be true or not, evolution
is a theory. i understand the weight that goes with that word, but that's not the word's
fault, that's everyone else's.

 

[Peter1986C]

I looked it up in the literature I have about methodology* and you're right about your definition of a theory. My bad.
And in that case you're also right about evolution being a theory.


* Boeie, 't Hart, & Hox (2005). Onderzoeksmethoden, p. 77. Amsterdam: Boom Onderwijs.

 

[wahdangun]

so what do you think us human will evolve ?

My prediction is we will eventually have multiple speciese. What do you think ?

Especially after seeing how diverse our speciese can be like ostrich people, a families in mongolia that walked on 4 their limb, and fatty people in the usa lol

 

[Peter1986C]

fatty people in the usa

That's not evolution, that's US "culture" (not meant to offend anyone) related to fast food. Though I have to admit that a few Europeans perform the same at the FriesFeast benchmark .

 

[digibucc]

so what do you think us human will evolve ?

My prediction is we will eventually have multiple speciese. What do you think ?

Especially after seeing how diverse our speciese can be like ostrich people, a families in mongolia that walked on 4 their limb, and fatty people in the usa lol

i don't see your examples as "Evolution" ... fattiness doesn't pass on in genes,
it passes on in behavior. ostrich like legs you still haven't said where that came from
and walking on four limbs is not evolved, it's again, behavioral.

i don't see us evolving any significant changes unless :
a) there is a world-wide change in the environment (human caused or otherwise. eg: bomb, asteroid, volcano, bio-weapon, etc)
or
b) we begin to colonize other planets

until then there simply is nothing selecting the variations. there are SO many humans,
always procreating, that it would either need to be a commonly occurring mutation, or
a communicable disease that causes a mutation.

disclaimer: i am not saying the processes that lead to us evolving changes will not
continue to occur, but i am saying without selection pressure, those changes will not
result in us significantly departing from the form we hold now. ie, no new limbs, no
radically re-designed bone structure, no super senses.

 

[streetfighter 2]

That's not evolution, that's US "culture" (not meant to offend anyone) related to fast food. Though I have to admit that a few Europeans perform the same at the FriesFeast benchmark .

It's not evolution but it could be a component, specifically sexual selection (not meant to offend anyone ). If for instance, fat women aren't attractive to males then they won't breed as much. Also IIRC, overweight men suffer from more adverse health effects than women do, which may also provide some sort of evolutionary push (though none that I can think of).

My prediction is we will eventually have multiple speciese. What do you think ?

We already did, and we will again [source]. Evolution isn't linear, it's more like a tree branching out in different directions as it grows [source].

i don't see us evolving any significant changes unless :
a) there is a world-wide change in the environment (human caused or otherwise. eg: bomb, asteroid, volcano, bio-weapon, etc)
or
b) we begin to colonize other planets

The thing is, since evolution operates on such a large timescale it becomes absurdly likely that (A) will be true. Dunno about (B) though, but one can hope .

 

[wahdangun]

That's not evolution, that's US "culture" (not meant to offend anyone) related to fast food. Though I have to admit that a few Europeans perform the same at the FriesFeast benchmark .

i don't see your examples as "Evolution" ... fattiness doesn't pass on in genes,
it passes on in behavior. ostrich like legs you still haven't said where that came from
and walking on four limbs is not evolved, it's again, behavioral.

i don't see us evolving any significant changes unless :
a) there is a world-wide change in the environment (human caused or otherwise. eg: bomb, asteroid, volcano, bio-weapon, etc)
or
b) we begin to colonize other planets

until then there simply is nothing selecting the variations. there are SO many humans,
always procreating, that it would either need to be a commonly occurring mutation, or
a communicable disease that causes a mutation.

disclaimer: i am not saying the processes that lead to us evolving changes will not
continue to occur, but i am saying without selection pressure, those changes will not
result in us significantly departing from the form we hold now. ie, no new limbs, no
radically re-designed bone structure, no super senses.

what didn't you read my post(post #131) ? In there I already give you the link about ostrich people

and about monggolian family that walked with their 4 limb, its not behavior its what scientist called a reverse evolution.

Btw I'm just joking about fatty american lol

 

[wahdangun]

the evidance of reverse evolution

since there are many ppl that didn't believe reverse evolution and there are a family that walked with their four limb. here i give you some example :

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/05/080520-fish-evolution.html

http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/060306_reversfrm.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/teachers/activities/pdf/3317_allfours.pdf

http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/060221_unertanfrm.htm

so there you are, and there are more example like a toad that have teeth and many more

 

[TheMailMan78]

I really do not know how we are going to evolve. But I REALLY HOPE all the women evolve into big breasted Asians with a mocha complexion. With enough cow hormones and sun exposure we as a race should really strive for this goal.

 

[streetfighter 2]

I really do not know how we are going to evolve. But I REALLY HOPE all the women evolve into big breasted Asians with a mocha complexion. With enough cow hormones and sun exposure we as a race should really strive for this goal.

Everyones saying it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty-- OK? I think it would be great!

--James Watson, "DNA"​

Admittedly the guy is a bit of a loon though.

 

[wahdangun]

I really do not know how we are going to evolve. But I REALLY HOPE all the women evolve into big breasted Asians with a mocha complexion. With enough cow hormones and sun exposure we as a race should really strive for this goal.

haha Its already happen in indonesia, I'm seeing more women having big breast lately than before, I even ended having big breast women. Hahaha

 

[Thatguy]

your correct we need pressure to evolve even then its not always about pressure it could a random fluke that proves advantagous

example the Delta 32 gene otherwise known as CCR5 was a mutation that occured during the bubonic plague, back then are bodies evolution didnt know it at the time but it turns out those who have Delta 32 on both sides of there family aka mother and father carry the genetic mutation are immune to HIV / AIDS and many other diseases,

so in effect a civilization thats billions of years older then are own wont always be more evolved then us simple because if pressure didnt exist to cause evolution via beneficial traits the extra time there civilization has been moving forward could result in nothing more then a technological difference. and not a physical one.

and no there is NOT a lack of pressure

every disease we encounter that could be an epidemic causes are body to fight back, you could say the massive numbers of diseases and possible infections and are enviroment around us will cause us to constantly evolve, it might not be visible changes but there will be genetic changes,

Makes you wonder if screwing with the biology of our planet is a smart thing in the long haul.