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F-35: Still no end in sight

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http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/weapons/2018/f-35-still-no-finish-line-in-sight.html
Despite all of the effort, time, and money—17 years and over $133 billion—spent to date on the F-35 program, it is doubtful it will ever live up to the lavish promises made all those years ago when the Defense Department and Congress committed to the program. Hidden within the pages of the DOT&E report is this litotic summation:

“Finally and most importantly, the program will likely deliver Block 3F [the untested, allegedly “fully combat-capable” F-35 model now entering production] to the field with shortfalls in capabilities the F-35 needs in combat against current threats.”
No comment
 
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It's akin to gambling... You pour in so much cash, that your only chance at redemption is to pour some more and hope for an eventual jackpot.
 
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What about a traditional cheaper strike fighter? The USA didn't won WWII with a Me-262, it was with the P-51.
 
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Its common among the military to lie about the real performance of their equipment.I remember a qoute from a war reporter " they lied about what they ( cruise missiles ) could do ; I´ve seen them literally turning in intersections" .
 

FordGT90Concept

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The problem with F-35 is feature creep. It started with using the same airframe for three separate functions. Then came the orders from other countries, each with their own requirements. Then they wanted to replace the A-10 with it so they engineered the cannon pod. Hell, the thing even shares engines with the LSR-B program for part commonality. The aircraft is a million and one compromises now; ergo, it shall exceed at nothing.
 

bug

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What about a traditional cheaper strike fighter? The USA didn't won WWII with a Me-262, it was with the P-51.
That's a thought that has bugged me for years. Unless you resolve everything in a blitzkrieg, production capacity is more important than technical prowess (see Tiger vs T-34 or Sherman; or anything with wings if you get my drift :D ).
Yet for decades all USAF does is buy a number of units and then let the manufacturer literally dismantle the production lines. They probably know what they're doing, but for me, as an outsider, it feels like I'm missing something.

Edit: And something on topic, while the F-35 will probably never hit all the objectives that keep piling up, it has already hit a large number of them.
 

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From what I've seen and heard, they should just keep the A-10s, F-16s, F-15s and F-18s. Sure they are old but they were pretty effective.

It seems like ay this point they've invested so much money into it that they might aswell keep throwing money at it till its finished then cry about how mediocre it is
 
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bug

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From what I've seen and heard, they should just keep the A-10s, F-16s, F-15s and F-22s. Sure they are old but they were pretty effective
Every one of those is still flying. They're not scraping the whole air force to make room for the F-35. Also, the F-15 and F-22 are air superiority fighters, one of the few roles the F-35 was never meant to fill.
 
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From what I've seen and heard, they should just keep the A-10s, F-16s, F-15s and F-22s. Sure they are old but they were pretty effective.

It seems like ay this point they've invested so much money into it that they might aswell keep throwing money at it till its finished then cry about how mediocre it is
Is it possible for the Russians or Chinese to develop tiny/mobile limited range EMP devices? So lets say they use no electronics in some jets in a surprise move, even though the American jets are more advanced, would they be able to detonate those EMP's mid flight and basically cause the entire sky to be raining F-35's since those jets rely so heavily on electronics?
 

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Every one of those is still flying. They're not scraping the whole air force to make room for the F-35. Also, the F-15 and F-22 are air superiority fighters, one of the few roles the F-35 was never meant to fill.
Sorry i meant F-18s, i havent really seen f-15s as air superiority fighters. Mostly in ground pound roles
 
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From what I've seen and heard, they should just keep the A-10s, F-16s, F-15s and F-22s. Sure they are old but they were pretty effective.
Those are Air Force jets, the F35 is primarily a Navy/Marines jet (meaning they are used on Navy Carriers). No Air Force jets are capable of landing or launching on a carrier. Their
chassis can't handle the strain.

Sorry i meant F-18s, i havent really seen f-15s as air superiority fighters. Mostly in ground pound roles
The F15 is THE BEST Air Superiority fighter ever. Nothing has even came close to it's record.
 

bug

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thought the AF backed out of getting them, guess I'm wrong

my biggest problem with the F35 is that the Navy needs a 5th gen carrier-based air superiority fighter to replace the Super Hornets, and the F35 is not it.
 
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FordGT90Concept

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Every one of those is still flying. They're not scraping the whole air force to make room for the F-35. Also, the F-15 and F-22 are air superiority fighters, one of the few roles the F-35 was never meant to fill.
F-35 was intended to replace AV-8B, F-16, and F-18. Army would love for it to replace A-10 too but that's wishful thinking.
 

CAPSLOCKSTUCK

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adjust your volume

 

bug

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F-35 was intended to replace AV-8B, F-16, and F-18. Army would love for it to replace A-10 too but that's wishful thinking.
Replacing the A-10 is like trying to replace carbon as the basis of life as we know it. It does its thing that well.
And just to brag a little, I still remember my time in Tucson, AZ, mainly because of how many A-10s I used too see every day.
thought the AF backed out of getting them, guess I'm wrong

my biggest problem with the F35 is that the Navy needs a 5th gen carrier-based air superiority fighter to replace the Super Hornets, and the F35 is not it.
With the sheer number of changes the program had, nobody can blame you for not keeping up to date ;)
And I also have no idea what's supposed to replace the Super Hornets.
 
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Every one of those is still flying. They're not scraping the whole air force to make room for the F-35. Also, the F-15 and F-22 are air superiority fighters, one of the few roles the F-35 was never meant to fill.
Well speaking for the Dutch, yes the F16's are still flying but don't ask how. The cost of keeping them maintained & in the air is tremendous by now, these planes are way past expiry date.

'We' jumped in on the F35 early as well, but the resistance to doing so has existed since the start and the reasons are exactly what you see today. It still isn't what it should be.

The whole thing's giving me that familiar 'Duke Nukem Forever' vibe. So long in development that time makes it obsolete.
 
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The Israelis are selling some F-16s to Croatia. That could mean some F-35s will be operational and if they are good for the Israelis, than they are good.
 

dorsetknob

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The Israelis are selling some F-16s to Croatia. That could mean some F-35s will be operational and if they are good for the Israelis, than they are good.
Speculation as its well published that F35 Maintenance is to be done in "Special Maintenance Sites "
Regional one for Europe and Near East is reported to be in Turkey ( Do you See the Problem there :respect:)
 

bug

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The Israelis are selling some F-16s to Croatia. That could mean some F-35s will be operational and if they are good for the Israelis, than they are good.
Look at the link I've posted above. They are operational for more than one country. But they aren't produced in significant numbers just yet.

@dorsetknob Turkey is the second largest army in NATO and also the largest buyer of F35s outside the US. Not saying there isn't a problem, but the placement of the maintenance center was probably a good idea at the time.
 

dorsetknob

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Dorset where else eh? >>> Thats ENGLAND<<<
with out getting into religion and politics (Difficult and awkward)
Turkey is also Procuring weapon systems From Russia and is a Muslim Nation
This is posing questions within Nato and other Interested Partners
 

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Off topic but Saudi Arabia is buying some BAE Typhoons
 

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F-35 comes in 3 Versions, A, B, C

A is CvTOL, B is STOVL, C is CrTOL; Air Force, Marine Corp, Navy.

F-35s are designed to replace the Oldest Aircraft in each Fleet.

A model for oldest F-16A and some C Models, not CG/CJ.

F-22 Replaces the F-15A and Oldest F-15Cs

USAF never fitted the F-15A/C model for A-G ops like Israel did, hence the F-15E for USAF.

F-35C Replaces the F/A-18A/C

F-35B replaces the AV8-B and F/A-18A/C

I got to See F-35 #AA-1 in 2009 in person while I was In, hence my Avatar Picture, Saw It Land in Florida.
 

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Yet for decades all USAF does is buy a number of units and then let the manufacturer literally dismantle the production lines.
Yep! That’s the situation now with the A-10. The decision has been made to keep the 235 of them into the 2030’s, yet they need new wings to do it. The Air Force didn’t want it anymore, but the Army begged for them to keep them. Congress stepped in and here we are, keeping the awesome A-10.

The original production lines are gone, so a new contract has been let with a new manufacturer just to replace the very stressed wings. It will be more expensive because it is considered an entirely new construction, whereas if they had lines always producing something it would just be an upgrade, which is cheaper.

The same situation will eventually happen 20-30 years from now with the F-35 airframe, in some form.
 
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