Failed BIOS flash -- What to do if it ever happens?

[Israar]

I'm just wondering on what anyone would have to do if they was to flash their motherboard BIOS and it failed.

I've just downloaded the NFM 1.3B6 Modded BIOS with a 1T fix, I'll be flashing soon enough but want to know what to do before I flash the BIOS and what to do if I encounter a bad/failed BIOS flash?

E.G:

If I need to make a backup -- How?
If I need to do particular step-by-step procedures; What are they?
How to tell the BIOS flash failed? -- Boot problems? (Wont run?) -- If it runs it's done right, correct?
If the BIOS flash fails, how would I fix it?

Those are just what sprung to my mind then when I finished downloading the modded BIOS lol! I've never flashed a BIOS that went wrongly, and the only BIOS flashes I've done have been through MSI's Live Update... (I have an MSI Boot Flash Disk) which was made when I first updated my BIOS from the live update procedure though!

As for the moment, I have just recieved my Arctic Silencer NV5 Rev.2 which will be going on the graphics card when I buy and recieve an XP-90C and some AC5 thermal paste, because soon enough I'm going to start overclocking, but beforehand do a lot of reading up about it

--Lee

 

[Solaris17]

as far as bios errors go i used a floppy on my old msi it works and the bios name (the one displayed in bios) changes and some options if the update changed anything...as for a bad flash the mobo i was told like dies but wait!! the thing is the mobo doesnt "turn on" so to speak their is no bios so u dont see anything and thus no os...but u can fix it IF it goes wrong by a methode called HOT FLASHING i do beleive....but i do not know any details about this id ask DanTheBanjoMan he might be able to help you out id send him a P.M maybe to get his attention incase he doesnt read this...

 

[Israar]

as far as bios errors go i used a floppy on my old msi it works and the bios name (the one displayed in bios) changes and some options if the update changed anything...as for a bad flash the mobo i was told like dies but wait!! the thing is the mobo doesnt "turn on" so to speak their is no bios so u dont see anything and thus no os...but u can fix it IF it goes wrong by a methode called HOT FLASHING i do beleive....but i do not know any details about this id ask DanTheBanjoMan he might be able to help you out id send him a P.M maybe to get his attention incase he doesnt read this...

I'll just hope he reads this instead, I'll not flash my BIOS with a modded version from the one I have until I am sure I can get around a bad flash

I want to be certain that I can fix my bios if a bad flash happens and if I'm not certain then why should I risk something so risky?

I don't really want to go busting up my computer yet as I've not had it that long so I think I'll wait for DanTheBanjoMan -- If he's not replied within a week at least, I'll PM him and ask him to take a look at the thread

--Lee

 

[Solaris17]

ya i was really wairy about doing it myself really because i didnt know the dangers involved......my flash when t fine...but after i found out what could have happened i was like well if i knew that i wouldnt have done it

 

[ShadowFlare]

as far as bios errors go i used a floppy on my old msi it works and the bios name (the one displayed in bios) changes and some options if the update changed anything...as for a bad flash the mobo i was told like dies but wait!! the thing is the mobo doesnt "turn on" so to speak their is no bios so u dont see anything and thus no os...but u can fix it IF it goes wrong by a methode called HOT FLASHING i do beleive....but i do not know any details about this id ask DanTheBanjoMan he might be able to help you out id send him a P.M maybe to get his attention incase he doesnt read this...

Heh, I've seen some instructions for "hot flashing" before, but I've never needed to use them. This is what I remember about it:

1) You must have another motherboard that has the same size of bios (size of file) and the same type of socket for the bios chip.
3) Get the flash utility that is for that motherboard; don't use the one that is for the board you bad flashed.
2) With said motherboard, start up the computer into DOS.
3) Remove the bios chip from the motherboard after booting into DOS and put the bad flashed bios chip in its place.
4) Flash the bios using the flash utility that is for the motherboard you put the bios chip into.
5) When it is done, you can just turn off the computer and put both bios chips into their original motherboard.

Heh, I think that's all there is to it.

I think I once walked someone through this and they eventually got theirs working again.

 

[Solaris17]

^ now u use the flash utility for the board that still runs but you flash it with the bios for the dead board so now bothe the boards work with their original bios's correct?

 

[Thermopylae_480]

That sounds interesting shadowflare, but it requires you have a similiar board laying around , and a removable BIOS chip. If your BIOS chip is removable you may be able to ask the manufacturer for a new one. I think this would be the simplest and safest method, and the most practicle. If you don't have a removable BIOS chip I imagine you may be able to yank it off the board in someway, then solder a new one in place; I don't think the Hot flashing would work to well in that case though.

 

[ShadowFlare]

^ now u use the flash utility for the board that still runs but you flash it with the bios for the dead board so now bothe the boards work with their original bios's correct?

Yes, that's correct.

That sounds interesting shadowflare, but it requires you have a similiar board laying around , and a removable BIOS chip. If your BIOS chip is removable you may be able to ask the manufacturer for a new one. I think this would be the simplest and safest method, and the most practicle. If you don't have a removable BIOS chip I imagine you may be able to yank it off the board in someway, then solder a new one in place; I don't think the Hot flashing would work to well in that case though.

Yes, getting a new one from the manufacturer would be the safest way. Hot flashing should probably not even be attempted as long as you can get one from the manufacturer.

Of course, if you had an external device for programming flash bios chips, that would be a safe way, too.

 

[Thermopylae_480]

Yeah. I have a few of those laying around . Don't I wish.

 

[Israar]

Well, after thinking long and hard about this, I thought stuff it, it's too much of a risk at the current moment in time to flash my BIOS and with my luck I'll get a bad flash :S

So, I will post pone flashing my BIOS for a while!

--Lee

 

[Solaris17]

^ sounds good i would have on my msi if i new the riskes involved before hand

 

[Aevum]

well, theres hotswap, which has been posted here,

dangerus way to fix the issue,
so, i decided to post a couple of methods and guide lines to the issue,

you miss flashed your bios, shame isnt it,
step 1) check your motherboards manual, alot of motherboards come with a bios recuperation system, either from floopy, or another onboard bios chip,

Step 2) Now we have to check, is your bios chip soldered to the motherboard, or in a socket.

--If soldered--
there is a device, you can either make it yourself, or some manufacturers make it,ECS actually bundles it with some motherboards calling it a ¨top hat¨, it consists of two bios chip sockets, soldered togather pins to pins in inverse, the idea is that one of the sockets has a bios chip flashed with a working bios, allowing you to boot and reflash, and thats the idea, you put one socket on the chip in your motherboard from above (thats why the pins have to be inversed, the socket is going from the top, meaning upside down, or downsite up in this case) and the top socket, a chip identical to the one soldered to the motherboard, which you can have programed in any decent electronics shop with a bios flash binary which you get off the manufacturer website, boot, remove socket, reflash your bios with a working bios, board saved,
another more ¨dirty¨ method is to just connect small electrical wiresto each pin on the bios chip, then connect the corresponding wire to another bios chip (same model and make if possible) which has been preflashed with a working bios, its harder, and if you want something ready to use, might be somewhat of a pain to do,

--In socket bios--

ok, this is easy, but be careful, the socket is quite fragile, and the plastic might become brittle due to heat from the motherboard or in general becuase mobo makers use the cheapest parts they can find, you extract the chip, there are two methods to doing this, do so VERY carefully since as i said, the socket WILL BREAK under pressure, the first which is the safest is a tool called chip tweezers, which you can find in electronics shops, those are tweezers which have L shaped tips, the socket should have two spaces in two of the corners, you put the L tips through the spaces, close a bit so the base of the L is under the chip, and then pull carefully, if done correctly, you should have the chip in your hand right now,

without the chip tweezers, you need small or micro screwdrivers, use flat screwdrivers, not philips or torx or whatever, flat screwdrivers or nothing, you put them in the spaces described before in the corners of the chip socket, and then press de far side which should be pointing up right now, press carefully and make sure press equialy on both, the secret to this is exerting the same force on both sides at the same time so it comes out straight,
there is always the chance of braking the socket, if it breakes, you could have alot of board level soldering infront of you, and the warrenty dosnt cover user inflicted damage,

once you have the chip out, bios on a floopy, and down to the electronics shop to have it reflashed with working bios, if you have a socket placed bios chip, it might be a good idea to buy 1-2 chips more, and flash them , if you experiment alot with bios flashing, test beta bioses and such or just obssesed with having the latest revision, its nice to have a chip with a working bios around which you can just plug in and revive the board,

well, hope this small guide has been of some help to you, it beats hot swaping the chip on a running board, and avoids nasty side effects of touching a functioning board.

 

[sol.fides]

Bios flashing is very common and not worth the fear. Once you do it a few times you will become confident. I usually use CD-ROM disks with a "clean" dos install.

I have done hot flashing a couple times both on an NFII platforms and on 865 PE(same chipsets different boards) and aside from damage to the socket (which wasn't fatal in this case) which can be avoided by delicacy.. which i seem to lack. I was able to revive both motherboards. one was a bad flash and the other corrupted from overclocking.

I suggest going to the bios chipmaker's website. finding the size in MB and type of flash memory (there are three used, two common now i believe) of the product. then getting yourself another through a retailer. probably run you 10 bucks.

while the computer is off remove the bios as Aevum described, or google hotflashing for better instructions, and put a piece of dental floss underneath before you reseat it. Don't push in all the way, just enough for all the contacts to hold. Fire on the board into your clean boot dos disk with the manufacturor approved flashing program and at the prompt pop out the bios. Replace the dental floss and again only reseat the "fresh" bios to hold contact. Follow the instructions you manufacturor describes for flashing. when flash is finished you may reboot.

now you have a new bios and the old one is sitting there like a warm blanket.

please do research with the keywords bios, hotflash and/or your motherboard for a few hours crossreferencing what you learn maybe someone has had a similar problem. the only way to feel confident is to hear the procedures and important factors from multiple sources before undertaking.

 

[Lekamies]

Heh, I've seen some instructions for "hot flashing" before, but I've never needed to use them. This is what I remember about it:

1) You must have another motherboard that has the same size of bios (size of file) and the same type of socket for the bios chip.
3) Get the flash utility that is for that motherboard; don't use the one that is for the board you bad flashed.
2) With said motherboard, start up the computer into DOS.
3) Remove the bios chip from the motherboard after booting into DOS and put the bad flashed bios chip in its place.
4) Flash the bios using the flash utility that is for the motherboard you put the bios chip into.
5) When it is done, you can just turn off the computer and put both bios chips into their original motherboard.

Heh, I think that's all there is to it.

I think I once walked someone through this and they eventually got theirs working again.

I've done that once for my old Abit AN7 bios chip, friend had same mobo and I used his bios chip to boot up and change my "dead" bios chip onthefly and flash it. Works like a dream!
(btw bios died because, when i was flashing it powercut brake the flashing!)

I have flashed many different modded bios's at this Neo2 using WinFlash 1.76 without problems.

 

[Urlyin]

often times another mobo with the same size BIOS is not around ... contact here ... pretty good turn around ...

 

[Israar]

Just to clarify for everyone, I have not actually failed a bios flash yet, I just made this post so I can try and get some information as to how I would go about trying to get my motherboard back up and running IF I failed a bios flash

Thanks for all the posts so far, and I'll be doing my research soon about the bios flashing as I was so referred to do so by sol.fides =)

--Lee

 

[Aevum]

its good to know, personaly i dont like hotflashing, 90% of times it works, but on the other 10%, you end of with either a broken bios chip socket, a damaged board becuase you accidently shorted some point on the PCB becuase of handling it while it was powered up or in the worst case senario, 2 boards with a dead bios, if your skilled and know what your doing, hotswaping is a fast and easy way, if you have a 2nd board around with the same type and size of bios chip, if you dont have one at hand, it easier to go to an electronics shop with the bios image on a floppy, have them program it on 2-3 chips, you revive the board, it just costed you a few bucks on eeproms and a trip to to the electronics shop for the security of having resolved the problem with the right tools (chip tweezers) reducing risk of damagind the board, plus you have 1 or 2 extra pre programed bios chips incase this happens again.