Fanless X570 motherboards?

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Not quite the absolute as you've put it.
Some setups do need it anyway.

Oh, but it is as absolute as I put it. The part that you chose not to underline reads as follows: with an appropriate cooling solution should not be overlooked. IF the cooling solution is appropriate without a fan then the fan is not essential. If the setup needs it then the cooling solution without the fan isn't appropriate and the user has very limited options. This is my point: A cooling solution such as the one provided in the above pictures would be appropriate and I would suggest that no matter what board one uses as long as a heat sink of that sort of efficiency is do-able then a fan isn't essential. Did you check the temps in those pictures?

If you're worried about fans over a chipset wearing out/making noise, how about the ones for the case which has to move air?

I'm not worried in the least bit. In fact, I'm elated. My main beef was learning that manufacturers were putting embedded fans over the chip set. The Hero ViIII, being the board of my choice, does not have an embedded fan over the chip set despite what I was told on the phone when I called ASUS support. The thing about the fans for the case is that they are not embedded fans. They can be easily replaced and that was my main concern.

I prefer a fan on mine period because at least it's got something moving air to and through the heatsink.

Which, again, is precisely my point: Having options. Personally, I would prefer to have both but certainly not if this means having no option. Again: It's about options, as I stated in my prior post. The very idea of having to send the system board back simply because the fan failed strikes me as a huge inconvenience. Actually, I did share one of my ideas with Asus (as I alluded to earlier in this thread) and I was told by engineering that they would be looking into it. I hope they werent' giving me lip service because my idea is sound and it readily addresses the very things you mention. There is also the option of water bllocking which I am not a big fan of but it shouldn't be ruled out and it should also be another option open to the user. If we can get kits for CPUs for this then we should be able to use kits for chip sets much the same way. Anything involving moving parts should be easy to replace. I did state (and I quote) "The fans are not such a big deal if they are 'optional' and replaceable" in the post just above yours. I hope this clarfiies my concerns.

 

[Totally]

I don't see anything of concerning with alterations.

I see it more of a company response to people complaining about the use of a fan. He kind of lets you know in a polite way that it shouldn't have a problem unless you live in the desert with "example a fully loaded system placed in a chamber with an ambient temperature of over 90 degrees"

You totally misread that email. It said that example was the worst case scenario and no matter how remote all their boards have to meet that cooling requirement because they have no control on who gets what are where specific boards go. His tone hinted at that yes the fans unnecessary when adequate cooling provided but in a worst case scenario a fan is neccessary therefore it is a requirement on all boards.

 

[Bones]

Oh, but it is as absolute as I put it. The part that you chose not to underline reads as follows: with an appropriate cooling solution should not be overlooked. IF the cooling solution is appropriate without a fan then the fan is not essential. If the setup needs it then the cooling solution without the fan isn't appropriate and the user has very limited options. This is my point: A cooling solution such as the one provided in the above pictures would be appropriate and I would suggest that no matter what board one uses as long as a heat sink of that sort of efficiency is do-able then a fan isn't essential. Did you check the temps in those pictures?

I didn't "Choose" to overlook it, more like as I was reading it just didn't click at the time and you made a good point with that, esp since I went back and re-read the post - Thanks for pointing that out. Thing we do agree on there is you must have an appropriate cooling solution/method, the exact means used determines what the system needs.

I'm not worried in the least bit. In fact, I'm elated. My main beef was learning that manufacturers were putting embedded fans over the chip set. The Hero ViIII, being the board of my choice, does not have an embedded fan over the chip set despite what I was told on the phone when I called ASUS support. The thing about the fans for the case is that they are not embedded fans. They can be easily replaced and that was my main concern.

We do have a little bit of a difference in thought here, my thing is why all the griping about fans in the first place when in some form you must have one working somewhere in the system? Be it directly on the chipset heatsink or a case fan moving air through the case letting a passive heatsink vent it's heat.
The newest heatsinks with them would (ATM) be difficult to get a replacement for in how they are designed instead of the more traditional style of fan used.
Some board models like an ASRock Z77 OCF as an example have been said to be bad about it's VRM fan going bad in a short amount of time and it's a more traditional style of fan, being it's a 40mm unit. Mine so far works well and has yet to make any noise whatsoever, easily replaced if it ever does.

Which, again, is precisely my point: Having options. Personally, I would prefer to have both but certainly not if this means having no option. Again: It's about options, as I stated in my prior post. The very idea of having to send the system board back simply because the fan failed strikes me as a huge inconvenience. Actually, I did share one of my ideas with Asus (as I alluded to earlier in this thread) and I was told by engineering that they would be looking into it. I hope they werent' giving me lip service because my idea is sound and it readily addresses the very things you mention. There is also the option of water bllocking which I am not a big fan of but it shouldn't be ruled out and it should also be another option open to the user. If we can get kits for CPUs for this then we should be able to use kits for chip sets much the same way. Anything involving moving parts should be easy to replace. I did state (and I quote) "The fans are not such a big deal if they are 'optional' and replaceable" in the post just above yours. I hope this clarfiies my concerns.

Yes, you've clarified them well and I too like options.
I'm more of the type I won't make a fuss over a small fan going out. I'll fix it and be done with the problem instead of tearing all down, having to pack it up, ship it off and...... Wait.... Only to reassemble it all once it gets back and hope everything is OK.
Not to mention with RMA's you may not get the same board back, I've had that happen and the one received from RMA was DOA and it was "here we go again" with the previous only to wait.... Again.

I can actually make my own heatsinks and have before, it's nothing I want to get into but can be done with a fan on it for good measure if I want.... Which I would want it of course.

Fact is the manufacturers are just getting cheaper and cheaper while charging more for these boards made of cheaper materials too vs what was before, if the materials really are better with a given model that just jacks the price up even higher.
That is something no one can honestly deny.

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

We do have a little bit of a difference in thought here, my thing is why all the griping about fans in the first place when in some form you must have one working somewhere in the system? Be it directly on the chipset heatsink or a case fan moving air through the case letting a passive heatsink vent it's heat.
The newest heatsinks with them would (ATM) be difficult to get a replacement for in how they are designed instead of the more traditional style of fan used.
Some board models like an ASRock Z77 OCF as an example have been said to be bad about it's VRM fan going bad in a short amount of time and it's a more traditional style of fan, being it's a 40mm unit. Mine so far works well and has yet to make any noise whatsoever, easily replaced if it ever does.

To an extent I empathise with those who gripe about system boards that come with fans. ASUS TUF armour series uses mini fans in their design to move hot air through channels. I rather have my doubts as to how effective this is compared to good old-fashioned open air flow. I can only speak for myself when it comes to preferences in cooling but I certainly do like to have my options open. At least with those system boards (TUF Z87, Z97) the fans, even the armour, are removable. For me, if the fan is removable, replaceable, and upgradable there is little place for complaint. It's the under-handed proprietary tactics that bother me. Things like CPUs soldered to the boards, rivets that have to be drilled out, embedding etc. that annoy me as these methods are not very user friendly. :::sigh::: The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Obsoletion is the name of the game it seems.

 

[Bones]

To an extent I empathise with those who gripe about system boards that come with fans. ASUS TUF armour series uses mini fans in their design to move hot air through channels. I rather have my doubts as to how effective this is compared to good old-fashioned open air flow. I can only speak for myself when it comes to preferences in cooling but I certainly do like to have my options open. At least with those system boards (TUF Z87, Z97) the fans, even the armour, are removable.

I agree some of the ways it's being done probrably aren't implemented well vs the older way of doing things.

For me, if the fan is removable, replaceable, and upgradable there is little place for complaint. It's the under-handed proprietary tactics that bother me. Things like CPUs soldered to the boards, rivets that have to be drilled out, embedding etc. that annoy me as these methods are not very user friendly. :::sigh::: The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Obsoletion is the name of the game it seems.

Same thing as it is within the auto industry - Almost nothing is "User Friendly" anymore related to doing basic maintenance.
It's beyond a joke when you have to remove half of the top of the engine and then jack it up on one side just to get to a sparkplug for routine maintenance of that item.
They could make things more friendly that way but then their service department woudn't get any business to quadriple charge you (If you get off that cheap) plus all that wonderful "Labor" for the same thing being done.

With boards it's all about the sales.
You can't fix the problem you gotta buy a new one and that suits them just fine.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

Gosh I remember when it was awesome that some top boards came with a blower style fan that clipped to the VRMs and a nice heat pipe for the NB.

Then its the complaint that the boards where to heavy and didnt appeal to people after a while.....

Now... Ohh LEDs and colors weeeeee...
15w with that small of aluminum heat sink is no good. So in preventing a buch of extra work in designing a massive cooler for the board that would not require a fan, they went the cheapest route for removing BTU. This also keeps end user costs down.

Do fans die and go bad? Yea they sure do. But chipset fans that will hardly ever reach 100% rpm probably last a long time.
Will one or two fans be bad or inop at purchase... Yea maybe a couple.... Out of thousands of boards maybe..... No big deal.
Cant please the entirety of people buying the board unfortunately, but then its a few out of thousands any ways.....

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

I agree some of the ways it's being done probrably aren't implemented well vs the older way of doing things.



Same thing as it is within the auto industry - Almost nothing is "User Friendly" anymore related to doing basic maintenance.
It's beyond a joke when you have to remove half of the top of the engine and then jack it up on one side just to get to a sparkplug for routine maintenance of that item.
They could make things more friendly that way but then their service department woudn't get any business to quadriple charge you (If you get off that cheap) plus all that wonderful "Labor" for the same thing being done.

With boards it's all about the sales.
You can't fix the problem you gotta buy a new one and that suits them just fine.

Nothing to add to this, Bones. You nailed it.

Gosh I remember when it was awesome that some top boards came with a blower style fan that clipped to the VRMs and a nice heat pipe for the NB.

Then its the complaint that the boards where to heavy and didnt appeal to people after a while.....

Now... Ohh LEDs and colors weeeeee...
15w with that small of aluminum heat sink is no good. So in preventing a buch of extra work in designing a massive cooler for the board that would not require a fan, they went the cheapest route for removing BTU. This also keeps end user costs down.

Do fans die and go bad? Yea they sure do. But chipset fans that will hardly ever reach 100% rpm probably last a long time.
Will one or two fans be bad or inop at purchase... Yea maybe a couple.... Out of thousands of boards maybe..... No big deal.
Cant please the entirety of people buying the board unfortunately, but then its a few out of thousands any ways.....

Wow. You're bringing back memories. I'm sure those blower fans of yore resulted in a substantial increase in headphone sales. Some are already complaining that the Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme with the passive cooling is too heavy. Well, it's not like it was made for a lap top to be lugged around. Personally, I don't feel much like dolling out a grand Canadian for a main board. (Although I've come close to it a few times already.) On the bright side of it the Hero VIII does use a formidable fan backed by a warranty that's good for about 7 years if I'm not mistaken. If what Asus says is true about the way these boards are tested there shouldn't be too much cause for concern. Still, the fact that they don't run full bore may be what they're banking on and the fact remains that stuff happens. You said it yourself: that small of aluminum heat sink is no good. So if the fan fails? Once the warranty is off the board it may be an idea to remove the fan anyway and replace it with something serious. If we can trust the kind of temps we see in the photos Taiwan IC posted a Scythe cooler might just be the way to go. Those temps are just lovely for passive cooling but I'm not sure how good they might be under a full load. This also assumes there is enough room in the case for that sort of thing. I'm not positive that there will be in mine. But the stigma about not being able to replace the fan if it fails or to opt for some sort of alternative is gone thanks to Taiwan IC. No question about it. I'm getting the HERO. I wonder if it will be cheaper come Black Friday.

 

[Taiwan IC]

[QUOTE =“ WHOFOUNDFUNGUS，帖子：4134720，成員：135234”]
. If we can trust the kind of temps we see in the photos Taiwan IC posted a Scythe cooler might just be the way to go
[/引用]

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

So. Instead of spending a ridiculous amount of bling-bling on an Aorus Xtreme thing IF one wanted genuine passive cooling that they could count on they could always install a HUGE tower cooler over the chip set and save themselves 3 or 4 hundred dollars Canadian. This would be the way to roll, especially if one happens to be a big Asus fan boi like me. No need to worry about what happens when the fan fails because there is no fan to fail. Myself, I'd prefer both. I'd want to attach those quiet fans on the Scythe just to step down temps even further. AND if any of the two fans failed so what? They can always be replaced. The heat sink is tending to the critical part of the job. The extra fans would only be icing on the cake.

Taiwan IC Do you have any pictures of what it looks like on the back side of the motherboard with the Scythe cooler installed? Did you use the screws from the original fan or the screws that came with the Scythe cooler? Inquiring minds need to know!

 

[Keullo-e]

lol I almost missed the pun. So much for "bleeding edge".DUMPSTER DIVER'S PC RECLAMATION

Hey, at least my fingers weren't bleeding..

My first delid was a Pentium G3258 which went also flawlessly with a razor

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Funny you should mention the G3258. I've been working on a unit using one all this week. (It's for the 8 year old). That chip is yet another underrated CPU sometimes delivering speeds in excess of 5 GHz when properly overclocked. (Of course Intel hobbled the chip with a collaborative venture thanks to Microsoft Update via microcode.) That's their 20 Year Anniversary edition if I'm not mistaken. So Windows users are not likely to see anything over 4GHz now on that chip unless they dodged the code. I have pictures of mine doing over 4 some place but that would involve an intensive search in my recovery files to find. The G3258 is a rather unique design being a Pentium Duo Core Haswell chip implementing bits and bytes of tech design used over the decades to the present. Probably one of the best money could buy from Intel for under 100 bux. It used to be quite the celebrated chips among gamer class of users. Funny. We both seem to be owning the same CPUs. Any chance you also own an i7 6900K?

Funny you should mention the G3258. I've been working on a unit using one all this week. (It's for the 8 year old). That chip is yet another underrated CPU sometimes delivering speeds in excess of 5 GHz when properly overclocked. (Of course Intel hobbled the chip with a collaborative venture thanks to Microsoft Update via microcode.) That's their 20 Year Anniversary edition if I'm not mistaken. So Windows users are not likely to see anything over 4GHz now on that chip unless they dodged the code. I have pictures of mine doing over 4 some place but that would involve an intensive search in my recovery files to find. The G3258 is a rather unique design being a Pentium Duo Core Haswell chip implementing bits and bytes of tech design used over the decades to the present. Probably one of the best money could buy from Intel for under 100 bux. It used to be quite the celebrated chips among gamer class of users. Funny. We both seem to be owning the same CPUs. Any chance you also own an i7 6900K?

Oh, I forgot to mention that just for kicks I ran a SAPPHIRE RX590 NITRO on that G3258 and it ran flawlessly. Since then I put the old Sapphire back. An 8 year old doesn't need a SAPPHIRE RX590 but she was my beta tester. She says it's a good card.

So. Instead of spending a ridiculous amount of bling-bling on an Aorus Xtreme thing IF one wanted genuine passive cooling that they could count on they could always install a HUGE tower cooler over the chip set and save themselves 3 or 4 hundred dollars Canadian. This would be the way to roll, especially if one happens to be a big Asus fan boi like me. No need to worry about what happens when the fan fails because there is no fan to fail. Myself, I'd prefer both. I'd want to attach those quiet fans on the Scythe just to step down temps even further. AND if any of the two fans failed so what? They can always be replaced. The heat sink is tending to the critical part of the job. The extra fans would only be icing on the cake.

Taiwan IC Do you have any pictures of what it looks like on the back side of the motherboard with the Scythe cooler installed? Did you use the screws from the original fan or the screws that came with the Scythe cooler? Inquiring minds need to know!

And then there's this...

 

[heky]

@WHOFOUNDFUNGUS

Just for the info. I just bought the MSI Prestige X570 Creation and the Chipset fan is not embedded. Its literally 4 small screws to remove the M.2 cooler and 3 more screws on the fan itself.

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Just for the info. I just bought the MSI Prestige X570 Creation and the Chipset fan is not embedded. Its literally 4 small screws to remove the M.2 cooler and 3 more screws on the fan itself.

That's great news! It's good to see MSI is still keeping their client base in mind. I've pretty much made my decision on the Hero however. I'm just waiting to see if the price will drop a little before I make my purchase. I build and rebuild PCs pretty much daily now so I always have my hands busy while I wait for that momentous day. That Prestige does look like a decent system board, a little pricey here in Canada, but reasonably under the cost of the KING (GIGABYTE X570 AORUS XTREME). The added touch that the Prestige offers with the M.2 expansion is a really good idea considering M.2 is the standard for those who value future proofing their builds, but there is another factor to consider which, IMO, is equally important: Personal preference.

I prefer the idea of the Q code logger in the top right of the board as opposed to the bottom edge. So much stuff is crammed down into the bottom edge of system boards these days as it is. I also like the more traditional method of plugging in the PSU although I'm sure in some cases the Prestige provides a superior approach here. Where I live LAN via cable is a whole lot faster than WiFi and that's how it is in most places in North America so WiFi is seriously optional for me. If I want it I can always get a card and because I live in a very remote location I can't really take advantage of high speed WiFi anyway. This is why I want the non-WiFi version of the Crosshair Hero and once again this is why having options is a serious consideration I alluded to in this thread. Besides, Buildzoid speaks highly of it and that in itself is rare.

Too be fair, I should add that Buildzoid's favorite MSI X570 is the PRESTIGE CREATION.

 

[heky]

Yeah, the board was not my first choice either. I was eyeing either the Gigabyte Aorus Master or the Asus Crosshair VIII Hero, but i got a really good deal on the Creation and after watching Buildzoid making good comments on it, i made an impulse buy. I only paid 330€ for it and the normal retail price is around 480 - 500€. And i just love the fact the board also has 10G lan, so it should be quite future proof. (Am planing to upgrade my home network to 10G as soon as possible)

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Yup. The Master isn't a half bad board either. I've cooled down some after getting on the blower with ASUS and venting about the whole fan-on-the-board thing. That was largely ASUS' fault: Their mobo technical department told me that the fan was embedded and if I removed it I would void the warranty. That led to an onslaught of emails to the CEO dept. and engineering compliments of yours truly. They shouldn't have b.s.'d me. I'm so glad Taiwan IC clued me in to the real deal. As long as the fan is removable and builder serviceable I'm good with it. ASUS likes to boast a user friendly experience but my view is that if the user cannot even replace a fan on the main board that's not very "user friendly". Fans built into motherboards give me the heebiejeebies. I guess that's coz I'm a little old school and I remember those horrific days from the past. Guess I'm dating myself now. Have you seen how the price on Thread Ripper has dropped? Hmmm... 10 G lan speed... Crazy fast. Can't get it here. I'm about a mile on the edge of wilderness. I photograph deer and moose in my back yard. lol

 

[heky]

The 10G lan wont be for the internet connection anyway, its for the home network. It should really help since i am streaming 4K movies to my TV, plus listening to DSD music, plus downloading all at the same time.
Just bit the bullet on the 3900x...cant wait for the 3950x to launch anymore...so am really excited.

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

I don't doubt it for a minute. I would be excited too. For intranet I'm curious why you didn't opt for Thunderbolt. While we're on the subject I bumped into this gem boasting Thread Ripper. Seems too good to be true. https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/ASUS-ROG-ZENITH-EXTREME-AMD/PRD6YQXPXZ4991O

 

[heky]

I don't doubt it for a minute. I would be excited too. For intranet I'm curious why you didn't opt for Thunderbolt. While we're on the subject I bumped into this gem boasting Thread Ripper. Seems too good to be true. https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/ASUS-ROG-ZENITH-EXTREME-AMD/PRD6YQXPXZ4991O

OMG, take that board, NOW! For that price i would build a threadripper build in a heartbeat...

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

That was my first impulse. But on further investigation that feature-packed board infamously generates a ton of issues so I could be buying a very affordable migraine. The board has been discontinued. I'm sure Asus would still stand behind their product but I don't want another bout of headaches. It took me 5 R.M.A.s just to get the right board last time. Don't get me wrong, I love my work station but I find EATX to be a little challenging on the production end of things — it's either really good or it's a veritable nightmare. I'm guessing this is the deal with the ZENITH EXTREME. I want to build a gaming PC for myself. I've built so many PCs for others. Ironically, I have never built myself a gaming PC. Work Stations, yes. All purpose PCs, yes. Servers, business, standard domestic etc. sure. But for myself, I have never built a gamer PC. Thread Ripper has never struck me as being a gaming platform; but man, what a price!

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

I did it. . . I pulled the trigger. Now I need to decide if I want the 3800x , or the 3900x, or the 3950... And of course, the best RAM for that combination.

 

[heky]

I did it. . . I pulled the trigger. Now I need to decide if I want the 3800x , or the 3900x, or the 3950... And of course, the best RAM for that combination.

Nice! Happy for you.
I just got this delivered today:

Its the 3900x...now i am thinking about what RAM sticks to get...should i get some 32gb 2x16 b-die...or just get the cheapest 3600 cl 16 kit, and call it a day?!

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

Decisions, decisions. Did you see the video where Wendell advises to avoid getting the 3900x? Yeah, I'm really up in the air on the RAM myself. Some say those high latencies are fine with Ryzen 7 but I have some reservations myself. Definitely want to go with 64 GB but those latencies are niggling at me. * OH* And congrats to you also!

 

[heky]

Haven't seen any videos of advice against the 3900x, only the oposite. What would be the reason not to get one?

 

[WHOFOUNDFUNGUS]

I really don't recall Wendell's reason. I do know that Gamer's Nexus wasn't overly impressed with the 3800x. I suppose it really comes down to what one would be using it for. Myself, I already have a work station but I've never owned my own gaming PC. That was the reason AMD caught my eye in the first place as I wasn't interested in building myself another PC with the Spectre/Meltdown vulnerability. For gaming even the 3800x might be over kill :::sigh::: Decisions, decisions.