Fatal1ty X-Fi sound card on sale for $50 at electronics store, should I get it?

[hat]

1. No, audiodg does nothing more than signal processing using the CPU (something Creative X-Fi cards use less of, anyway).

2. It's perfectly normal for drivers from any vendor to insert 3rd party code into audiodg process (that's why audiodg was designed to run as a separate process in the first place, and not some internal kernel module). In Entertainment mode, the X-Fi driver offloads CMSS3D and Crystalizer processing to it.

3. Yes, it's an absolutely trivial issue, close to being a non-issue for a vast majority of users, because it doesn't affect stability or security, further, doesn't affect the quality of the product.

1. "The second reason for using a separate process for the audio engine is DRM. The DRM system in Vista requires that the audio samples be processed in a protected process, and (for a number of technical reasons that are too obscure to go into) it's not possible for a svchost hosted service to run in a protected process."

2. That may be, but my points are that:
a. It doesn't have to cause a huge memory leak that eventually kills performance
b. These features worked fine in XP, which did not have audiodg...

3. Again, I hardly consider an issue trivial when features that I paid $150 for don't work properly. In fact, it's the complete opposite of trivial.

What I'm saying is that the memory leaks don't affect the performance or quality of audio, or any of its features, and that something like memory leaks with audiodg does not affect that in any significant way.

What world do you come from? Where you undergo surgery for sneezing? Where you spin a chaingun at your neighbour's dog for peeing on your mailbox? Where something as trivial as audiodg memory leak deters you from buying X-Fi, especially when you're getting it for $50? Then it's your world that's bizarro, mine is fine.

The memory leaks don't affect performance? Since when does a memory leak not affect performance? When I have 4GB RAM, and audiodg is indefinately eating memory, how is it not a performance issue when it hits around 2GB, leaving 2GB for the game, the OS, and god knows what other background programs to operate on? How does audiodg not affect features when you yourself said that developers use it specifically to build thier audio feaures into, and when memory leaks happen when these features are being used, how does that not affect the performance or the features?

Again, a memory leak that occurs when I use features that I expect to be able to use with my $150 sound card (or in this case, $50, but not really because there's the $70 mail in rebate that takes months to get), is not a trivial issue, it's a huge issue. As I said before, I wouldn't use a Creative X-Fi if someone gave it to me for free, because I wouldn't want the memory leak issue.

 

[RejZoR]

I really have to observe this process, because i couldn't ever see this so called massive memory leak...

 

[hat]

You have an Auzentech, I've read they don't have the same issues that the Creative X-Fi cards have.

 

[t77snapshot]

You can have my used one for $75 shipped

 

[RejZoR]

You have an Auzentech, I've read they don't have the same issues that the Creative X-Fi cards have.

I've had bunch of Creative cards before current Auzentech and i couldn't see any of the problems. Besides, Auzentech drivers aren't all that different. Only slight changes with digital encoders and few logos here and there. The core driver is still identical to stock Creative driver.

 

[Monkey_Business]

Is it even worth getting an X-Fi card if the drivers are that terrible, and cause nothing but bugs and problems?

 

[RejZoR]

Drivers aren't as bad as ppl are bragging about them. There were bigger problems with older nForce chipsets, but since then, all the so called problems are totally overhyped. Sure there are still problems, but you can expect them with ASUS or any other vendor as well...

 

[Monkey_Business]

Drivers aren't as bad as ppl are bragging about them. There were bigger problems with older nForce chipsets, but since then, all the so called problems are totally overhyped. Sure there are still problems, but you can expect them with ASUS or any other vendor as well...

Do the driver bugs cause audio problems in games?

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

Just google creative audiodg, you'll get more hits than you'll ever care to look at. Basically it's a bunch of people saying there's a memory leak, a bunch more people saying "yeah, I have that problem too", and a bunch of people who are pissed off about it.

Currently, the solution is to go into your sound properties and disable sound blaster enhancements, which is obviously not a real solution... yeah sure, let me disable these features (like CMSS... this won't work with sound blaster enhancements disabled) I was expecting to be able to use with my $150 sound card and my $80 5.1 speaker system...

Don't get me wrong, the Creative X-Fi is a great sound card, with great features, it's just extra shitty and absolutely not worth the money when you have problems like the audiodg memory leak that's been going on for at least 2 years now, and the best solution is to disable the features you expected to be able to use with your $150 sound card.

Oh ok.. hmm.. got a look on it and it was about this audiodg.exe inflating to 1.5gigz+ mem usage.. became paranoid and have been checking this everytime I exit a game.. havent experienced it though..

 

[RejZoR]

Do the driver bugs cause audio problems in games?

What problems? In whole time of Creative cards i only had 2 problems. Slowdown after a while in FEAR Combat if EAX was enabled (which got solved with next driver update) and sound crackling in NFS:Most Wanted. Which fixed by itself when i restarted the game. And never ever happened again after that.

Though i'd wish that sound drivers were updated just like ATI is updating graphic drivers...

 

[hat]

Oh ok.. hmm.. got a look on it and it was about this audiodg.exe inflating to 1.5gigz+ mem usage.. became paranoid and have been checking this everytime I exit a game.. havent experienced it though..

Games probably shouldn't do that anyway. The audiodg issue is caused with only certian programs like Ventrilo when "sound blaster enhancements" (like CMSS) are being used. If you disable the enhancements, the problem goes away, but as I said before, that's not a real solution when you have to disable features you expected to be able to use with a $150 sound card.

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

Good thing I dont use vent though hehe

 

[epicfail]

no problems with anything that i can see in either games and i use vent teamspeak/ mumble seems like its just a problem some people have

 

[Monkey_Business]

Someone recommended an Asus sound card, due to the endless driver problems creative cards have.

 

[Wile E]

1. "The second reason for using a separate process for the audio engine is DRM. The DRM system in Vista requires that the audio samples be processed in a protected process, and (for a number of technical reasons that are too obscure to go into) it's not possible for a svchost hosted service to run in a protected process."

2. That may be, but my points are that:
a. It doesn't have to cause a huge memory leak that eventually kills performance
b. These features worked fine in XP, which did not have audiodg...

3. Again, I hardly consider an issue trivial when features that I paid $150 for don't work properly. In fact, it's the complete opposite of trivial.



The memory leaks don't affect performance? Since when does a memory leak not affect performance? When I have 4GB RAM, and audiodg is indefinately eating memory, how is it not a performance issue when it hits around 2GB, leaving 2GB for the game, the OS, and god knows what other background programs to operate on? How does audiodg not affect features when you yourself said that developers use it specifically to build thier audio feaures into, and when memory leaks happen when these features are being used, how does that not affect the performance or the features?

Again, a memory leak that occurs when I use features that I expect to be able to use with my $150 sound card (or in this case, $50, but not really because there's the $70 mail in rebate that takes months to get), is not a trivial issue, it's a huge issue. As I said before, I wouldn't use a Creative X-Fi if someone gave it to me for free, because I wouldn't want the memory leak issue.

I have no issues with memory leaks at all. The whole issue is overblown, and only a few people experience the problem, and only in specific situations with specific programs. Asus has just as many issues in Vista and 7. It's more a product of the OS than it is Creative drivers.

No matter what you say, the X-Fi sounds better than on-board, is perfectly stable for 90+% of the people that own them, and is worth the money, period, even without the shitty effects that true audiophiles disable anyway. This is doubly true when the card is only $50. Even without the effects, the card is worth $50, and stomps all over ANY on-board solution.

Games probably shouldn't do that anyway. The audiodg issue is caused with only certian programs like Ventrilo when "sound blaster enhancements" (like CMSS) are being used. If you disable the enhancements, the problem goes away, but as I said before, that's not a real solution when you have to disable features you expected to be able to use with a $150 sound card.

So if it's always with the same programs (we'll use Vent as the example), whose to say it's not Ventrillo that's the source of the problem?

Someone recommended an Asus sound card, due to the endless driver problems creative cards have.

They have just as many problems in Vista and 7 as Creative cards do.

People are just blowing this Creative shit out of proportion. Creative had really bad drivers in Vista when it first released (which wasn't even fully their fault, as Microsoft changed the audio setup in Vista at the last minute, leaving Creative to start from scratch), so now people nit pick minor issues to death with Creative, and make it sound like your computer will spontaneously combust if you install a Creative card.

Trust me, for $50, just buy the damn card. If you don't like it, turn around and sell it on ebay for $70 in a few weeks, and make a profit.

 

[hat]

You may have no issues with the card, and if you do, that's wonderful and I'm happy for you, but the issue is not overblown when I'm affected by it, since I want to use CMSS, which causes memory leak problems with my applications.

I totally agree that the X-Fi sounds better than any onboard sound. It's a great card with great features, don't get me wrong. It's just the memory leak issue that prevents me from reccomending it. I also agree that most of the effects are shitty: Bass Boost makes everything sound terrible, EAX effects are shitty when they are not used in thier proper place, the equalizer feature is next to useless, the Crystalizer makes things sound shitty, but unfortunately, CMSS, the feature that upmixes stereo content into 5.1 content, is affected by this issue, and I like to hear my music from all my speakers, not just front left and front right.

How can Vent be the source of the problem when the memory leak does not occur when the sound blaster enhancements are disabled? How can it be the source of the problem when these enhancements were perfectly usable in XP, but as soon as Vista or 7 is installed, this memory leak issue appears? As far as I've seen, Creative blames MS and MS blames Creative, and niether one of them will do a damn thing about the issue, leaving a lot of pissed off people who are affected by it.

I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. All I've said is that there's a memory leak issue when using "sound blaster enhancements" in certian senarios, the issue has been around forever and a day and it hasn't been touched, and that the current solution is to disable "sound blaster enhancements" which gets rid of CMSS (which is total BS, since you should be able to use the features that you paid for). None of this is blowing anything out of proportion, it's all 100% true. I've seen the problem first-hand on my Uncle's machine with the X-Fi Fatal1ty in it. I've posted links that support my position (which is more than I can say for anyone else).

 

[RejZoR]

audiodg.exe is always around 18MB on my system.

 

[btarunr]

Similar here. Audiodg never exceeds its typical 11~18 MB footprint. In Game Mode, CMSS3D turned on, and application making complete use of hardware-processing, 64-bit OS:

So rest assured, Creative X-Fi works like it should in a vast majority of the cases. For $50 that card is a steal. You're never far away from a disgruntled user of any product, any brand. Most of it is alarmist bullcrap, most of the time.

 

[hat]

Now try running Ventrilo or Full Tilt Poker (2 applications that I know of that will cause audiodg to go full retad) with that same configuration.

 

[Wile E]

You may have no issues with the card, and if you do, that's wonderful and I'm happy for you, but the issue is not overblown when I'm affected by it, since I want to use CMSS, which causes memory leak problems with my applications.

I totally agree that the X-Fi sounds better than any onboard sound. It's a great card with great features, don't get me wrong. It's just the memory leak issue that prevents me from reccomending it. I also agree that most of the effects are shitty: Bass Boost makes everything sound terrible, EAX effects are shitty when they are not used in thier proper place, the equalizer feature is next to useless, the Crystalizer makes things sound shitty, but unfortunately, CMSS, the feature that upmixes stereo content into 5.1 content, is affected by this issue, and I like to hear my music from all my speakers, not just front left and front right.

How can Vent be the source of the problem when the memory leak does not occur when the sound blaster enhancements are disabled? How can it be the source of the problem when these enhancements were perfectly usable in XP, but as soon as Vista or 7 is installed, this memory leak issue appears? As far as I've seen, Creative blames MS and MS blames Creative, and niether one of them will do a damn thing about the issue, leaving a lot of pissed off people who are affected by it.

I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. All I've said is that there's a memory leak issue when using "sound blaster enhancements" in certian senarios, the issue has been around forever and a day and it hasn't been touched, and that the current solution is to disable "sound blaster enhancements" which gets rid of CMSS (which is total BS, since you should be able to use the features that you paid for). None of this is blowing anything out of proportion, it's all 100% true. I've seen the problem first-hand on my Uncle's machine with the X-Fi Fatal1ty in it. I've posted links that support my position (which is more than I can say for anyone else).

Vent can make the api calls in a non-standard manner.

And the situation is overblown. You seem to be forgetting that you are in a VAST minority, yet you treat it as if it's the most common thing in the world. It isn't. It is overblown, and effects only a handful.

Sorry, you still offer no compelling reason to pass up a Fatal1ty edition X-Fi card for $50.

And CMSS is still crap anyway.

 

[hat]

Well, I feel I've made my points, and everyone else has made thiers. There's really no further step to take in this argument. My position still remains firm: until either MS or Creative fixes the memory leak issue, I won't buy a Creative X-Fi, nor would I reccomend it to anyone. As soon as the issue is fixed, then I feel differently.

I just can't see how you can call CMSS crap though. What's crap about upmixing a stereo mp3 to all speakers? I think stereo sounds bland and empty in comparison to having it upmixed with CMSS (that is, in Stereo Surround mode).

 

[Wile E]

Well, I feel I've made my points, and everyone else has made thiers. There's really no further step to take in this argument. My position still remains firm: until either MS or Creative fixes the memory leak issue, I won't buy a Creative X-Fi, nor would I reccomend it to anyone. As soon as the issue is fixed, then I feel differently.

I just can't see how you can call CMSS crap though. What's crap about upmixing a stereo mp3 to all speakers? I think stereo sounds bland and empty in comparison to having it upmixed with CMSS (that is, in Stereo Surround mode).

But a minority having an issue is not grounds to turn EVERYONE away. That's like saying never buy a Toyota, because a few people accelerated without wanting to, just because of a minor carpet issue, that's easily remedied.

As for CMSS: Because it colors the music improperly. It loses accuracy. All effects except EQ (and I only use that to make up for deficiencies in my speakers) are disabled on my rig.

 

[hat]

True, but it's up to whoever I'm talking to to decide for themselves in the end.

Hm, I think it sounds way better with CMSS, but that's a difference between your ears and mine

 

[RejZoR]

One thing is CMSS for music and another is CMSS for games... We can then as well complain over Virtual Speaker thingie on ASUS Xonar cards...

 

[btarunr]

Now try running Ventrilo or Full Tilt Poker (2 applications that I know of that will cause audiodg to go full retad) with that same configuration.

When every other app is able to work flawlessly, it really has something to do with those apps you mentioned, not Creative.