• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

First one to answer gets a prize / RE: DOCP VS Manual mode AMD

Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
31 (0.01/day)
So everyone is on the same page > ...... Asus Tuf Gaming X570 with Wifi. 3700X , Ripjaws Series V > Asus QVL approved. Installed in slots 2 and 4.

Ok....... we flash the bios. Unplug PSU, Clear CMOS, Perhaps even a few times for good measure.....Plug in PSU, power back up.

I go into AI Tweaker. I enable DOCP and boom......there is my Ram XMP, you load it, beautiful. It works. At rated speeds immediately. Flawless...... with me so far???? EVERYTHING ELSE LEFT TO AUTO.......

Windows shows it running 3600 (correct) ..... Now, forget everything I just said, Go back and re-flash bios, clear cmos, load defaults, reboot, re-enter bios .............. WHY, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN I NOT MANUALLY ENTER MY DRAM TIMINGS and get the damn thing to boot into windows? I don't mean all 4,000 tiny options of the ram. No, I mean the main ones. 3600 mzh, 18000 mhz FLCK (you know what I mean) ------ it's all set right. Just basic, no brainer settings that SHOULD WORK........

WITHOUT DOCP being enabled - at all......... I ought to be able to do it manually without DOCP. Period. So far the best I have been able to do is to get it to boot into windows using my manual settings, BUT...... windows only reporting the bare basic speed of 2133........

WHY? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY? >>>>> Dram voltage? Nope. Manually increased to 1.35 which works FLAWLESSLY when Docp is enabled. Same voltage. That's what it calls for at 3600mhz.

I don't get it. It's driving me mad........... I'm missing a step somewhere. YES, I have been to the "advanced" tab and all the way down at the bottom it says AMD OVERCLOCK. Cool........ a peek around inside there I find an option to "Enable" Dram Overclock....... which is technically correct. Anything over 2133 is technically overclocked. ----- SO even that feature should tell all the hardwared > HEY, RUN THIS BITCH AT 3600mhz. ----- It's not happening.

Reward: You very may well save someones soul tonight. :)
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
866 (0.20/day)
Location
Huntington Beach CA
System Name ROG MACHINE
Processor Ryzen 9 3950x
Motherboard Crosshair viii Hero
Cooling Corsair hydro H115i
Memory g-skill rgb 64gb 4x16gb ddr4 3200mgz
Video Card(s) asus rog strix 1080
Storage samsung 960 evo 1tb m.2/mushkin reactor 1tb ssd/ 3x toshiba 3tb hdd , 10tb seagate
Display(s) Acer 4k monitor
Case thermal take view 71 rgb
Audio Device(s) creative ae-5 sound card
Power Supply corsair AX 1200i 1200 watt psu
Mouse corsair 65
Keyboard corsair k95
Software windows 10 pro 64bit
hmmm, all I know is when I upgraded my memory from 32gb to 64gb all the settings on both kits are the same but it would not boot until I reset the bios maybe that is what you have to do. good luck
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
1,827 (0.98/day)
Location
Western Canada
System Name Ol' Beastie R3.5
Processor R7 3700X
Motherboard B550M TUF Wifi (0805)
Cooling Dark Rock Pro 4
Memory 32GB Trident Z RGB [3733] (16-19-19-37) (DJR)
Video Card(s) RTX 2060 Super FE (UV 0.950V)
Storage 2.75TB of SSDs
Display(s) GW2765HT
Case TJ08T-E, NF-A14 iPPC-2000 + SW3 120mm
Audio Device(s) DT 770 80Ω [FiiO E10K], Blue Snowball + DS7200B
Power Supply Seasonic SSR-550PX [Cablemod SE]
Mouse Endgame XM1
Keyboard various customs
Software Windows 10 2004
Did you remember your SoC voltage? Vdram isn't the only voltage being set when you click DOCP.

Seeing as you described timings as the "4000 tiny options of the RAM", making sure that the average user such as yourself is able to load a [ideally] stable overclock at the touch of a button is precisely the idea behind XMP and DOCP.

When XMP/DOCP is enabled, it sets freq, timings, Vdram (usually 1.2, 1.3, or 1.5V) and VSoC for you. Stock Asus auto SoC is 1.025V and generally might not be enough for pushing stable 3600/3733/3800. DOCP/XMP auto SoC is almost always 1.1V on any board, and generally falls around 1.08-1.11V actual voltage on the SVI2 bus.

Asus also seems to be dictating an abnormally high Auto procODT on their new BIOSes. Out of the box mine was 53ohms, really high for Matisse, which should only need roughly 30-40ohms at the most. If you have trouble booting, you can also play around with procODT to see if it helps.

Also, what you refer to as the "main timings" aren't main timings. 3600 is the RAM speed, 1800 is the IF speed. The main timings are tCL, tRCD(RD/WR), tRP, tRAS, tRC. If you haven't set those at the very least, then chances are the board is trying to run the speed that you've set (3600) at the timings of the JEDEC 2133 profile (15-15-15), which is something that only the best kits out there can actually achieve.

You do realize that DOCP is literally only making your life easier? On Asus and Gigabyte boards, it's perfectly acceptable to first load XMP/DOCP to ensure that the board is using obscure secondary/tertiary timings from the XMP profile, before proceeding to overclock to an even higher RAM speed with custom timings, all while leaving XMP/DOCP on.
 
Last edited:

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
47,857 (8.28/day)
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Big Fella
Processor Ryzen R7 3700X Stock w/ Dark Rock Slim (4.3GHz 1.2v/4.35 1.275v)
Motherboard Asus B450-i ITX
Cooling GPU: Corsair H110 W/ Corsair ML RGB fans
Memory 16GB DDR4 3200 Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro @ 3200MHz c14
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS mod to Gaming Z) (45C max load, H110 AIO)
Storage 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000 Pro NVME
Display(s) Phillips 328m6fjrmb (32" 1440p 144hz curved) + Sony KD-55X8500F (55" 4K HDR)
Case Fractal Design Nano S
Audio Device(s) Razer Leviathan + Corsair Void pro RGB, Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + PowerPlay mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptop: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB
Other voltages get changed with DOCP/XMP as well

Is there a reason you wont use DOCP? As a fellow Asus ryzen user, its the way to go.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
31 (0.01/day)
Did you remember your SoC voltage? Vdram isn't the only voltage being set when you click DOCP.

Seeing as you described timings as the "4000 tiny options of the RAM", making sure that the average user such as yourself is able to load a [ideally] stable overclock at the touch of a button is precisely the idea behind XMP and DOCP.

When XMP/DOCP is enabled, it sets freq, timings, Vdram (usually 1.2, 1.3, or 1.5V) and VSoC for you. Stock Asus auto SoC is 1.025V and generally might not be enough for pushing stable 3600/3733/3800. DOCP/XMP auto SoC is almost always 1.1V on any board, and generally falls around 1.08-1.11V actual voltage on the SVI2 bus.

Asus also seems to be dictating an abnormally high Auto procODT on their new BIOSes. Out of the box mine was 53ohms, really high for Matisse, which should only need roughly 30-40ohms at the most. If you have trouble booting, you can also play around with procODT to see if it helps.

Also, what you refer to as the "main timings" aren't main timings. 3600 is the RAM speed, 1800 is the IF speed. The main timings are tCL, tRCD(RD/WR), tRP, tRAS, tRC. If you haven't set those at the very least, then chances are the board is trying to run the speed that you've set (3600) at the timings of the JEDEC 2133 profile (15-15-15), which is something that only the best kits out there can actually achieve.

You do realize that DOCP is literally only making your life easier? On Asus and Gigabyte boards, it's perfectly acceptable to first load XMP/DOCP to ensure that the board is using obscure secondary/tertiary timings from the XMP profile, before proceeding to overclock to an even higher RAM speed with custom timings, all while leaving XMP/DOCP on.
I understood every word. (Finally feel like I'm catching up - thanks)

Brings me to questions : Bottom line > Am I understand that an XMP profile is , essentially a digital snapshot of precisely where you want it to be? Save it? Load it back easy. Like you said it is designed to make your life easier. Ok. So It can read XMP files and I presume it's even possible to write your own XMP files now using Typhoon. (I think that's right) ----- Makes your life easier to start there as a base? Great.

2) Is DOCP mode specifically designed to "play nice" with Ryzen Master softare? OR.....is there proof out there that it doesn't matter either way, 100% Use RM and have fun with DOCP. ......

3) I want to be very clear on this....... I understand Ryzen Master is not meant to "Load" automatically any overclock you may have set for it to startup and auto apply those settings. I understand RM is simply capable of loading on the fly adjustments to bios. I tested it myself. It worked perfectly. ....... Fantastic.

I want to know how to auto-start Ryzen Master automatically with windows with full support and authority from the Windows drivers police..... just load up in the background. No warning Pop up, etc. Load to the system tray and from there if I want to pull up RM and apply a Profile I KNOW works, on the fly, ----well then....I'd be one one happy camper. Right now I can't seem to figure a way to do that and others (at least 1) agreed......

And yes to answer your question. I read elsewhere with hard math as proof that Ryzen more or less had 100% errors when related to a SOC v of Above 1.10 ....... So in my bios, I do have SOC V manual. > 1.09. HWinfo reads it no more than 1.04 and I believe that was under load.
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
47,857 (8.28/day)
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Big Fella
Processor Ryzen R7 3700X Stock w/ Dark Rock Slim (4.3GHz 1.2v/4.35 1.275v)
Motherboard Asus B450-i ITX
Cooling GPU: Corsair H110 W/ Corsair ML RGB fans
Memory 16GB DDR4 3200 Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro @ 3200MHz c14
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS mod to Gaming Z) (45C max load, H110 AIO)
Storage 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000 Pro NVME
Display(s) Phillips 328m6fjrmb (32" 1440p 144hz curved) + Sony KD-55X8500F (55" 4K HDR)
Case Fractal Design Nano S
Audio Device(s) Razer Leviathan + Corsair Void pro RGB, Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + PowerPlay mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptop: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB
DOCP just loads the factory overclock settings for your ram, from the ram itself. thats it.
 
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
3,641 (0.95/day)
Location
Gougeland (NZ)
System Name Cumquat 2000
Processor AMD RyZen R7 3700X
Motherboard Asus Strix x470-F Gaming
Cooling Cryorig R1 Universal
Memory 16GB GSkill TridentZ DR4-3200 16-18-18-38 1.35V
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse RX5700 8GB DDR6 1750/1700
Storage 1X Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SATA AHCI 1x Sandisk 128GB PCIe, 12TB of HDD Storage
Display(s) ViewSonic VX2457 MHD 75Hz FreeSync 1920x1080p
Case SilverStone Raven RV02B-W + 3x SS AP181 + USB3.0 upgrade
Audio Device(s) Realtek S1220a + Pioneer VSX-531 amp Technics 100W Speaker set
Power Supply Enermax RevolutionXT II 750W 80+ Gold
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard Logitech G105
Software Windows 10 X64 PRO (build 1909)
Benchmark Scores it sucks even more less now ;)
Alot of the ram timings under DOCP say auto but in all reality are not, they're set by DOCP so may just have to bite the proverbial bullet and enter in all the settings manually Typhoon should give you all the timings even those in the XMP profile
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
798 (0.16/day)
Location
Malaysia
Processor Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard Gigabyte B450M-S2H
Cooling AMD Wraith Stealth
Memory 2x8GB Samsung OEM B-die @ 3600 17-19-18-36
Video Card(s) Galax GTX 1070 Katana
Storage 120GB Samsung Evo 840 SSD + 2TB Seagate Surveillance 5900rpm
Display(s) 24" LG 24MP59G
Case Mars Gaming MCX Midtower
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium HD + Kurtzweil KS-40A bookshelf
Power Supply Corsair CX750M
Mouse Logitech G402 Hyperion Fury
Keyboard CM Storm QuickFire Pro Cherry MX Black
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Brings me to questions : Bottom line > Am I understand that an XMP profile is , essentially a digital snapshot of precisely where you want it to be? Save it? Load it back easy. Like you said it is designed to make your life easier. Ok. So It can read XMP files and I presume it's even possible to write your own XMP files now using Typhoon. (I think that's right) ----- Makes your life easier to start there as a base? Great.
XMP profile is an overclocked profile that doesnt follow JEDEC speed and timings. On some module yes you can edit XMP profile, but its better to do manual timings than messed with that.

2) Is DOCP mode specifically designed to "play nice" with Ryzen Master softare? OR.....is there proof out there that it doesn't matter either way, 100% Use RM and have fun with DOCP. ......
DOCP is just ASUS name for XMP.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
1,827 (0.98/day)
Location
Western Canada
System Name Ol' Beastie R3.5
Processor R7 3700X
Motherboard B550M TUF Wifi (0805)
Cooling Dark Rock Pro 4
Memory 32GB Trident Z RGB [3733] (16-19-19-37) (DJR)
Video Card(s) RTX 2060 Super FE (UV 0.950V)
Storage 2.75TB of SSDs
Display(s) GW2765HT
Case TJ08T-E, NF-A14 iPPC-2000 + SW3 120mm
Audio Device(s) DT 770 80Ω [FiiO E10K], Blue Snowball + DS7200B
Power Supply Seasonic SSR-550PX [Cablemod SE]
Mouse Endgame XM1
Keyboard various customs
Software Windows 10 2004
I understood every word. (Finally feel like I'm catching up - thanks)

Brings me to questions : Bottom line > Am I understand that an XMP profile is , essentially a digital snapshot of precisely where you want it to be? Save it? Load it back easy. Like you said it is designed to make your life easier. Ok. So It can read XMP files and I presume it's even possible to write your own XMP files now using Typhoon. (I think that's right) ----- Makes your life easier to start there as a base? Great.

2) Is DOCP mode specifically designed to "play nice" with Ryzen Master softare? OR.....is there proof out there that it doesn't matter either way, 100% Use RM and have fun with DOCP. ......

3) I want to be very clear on this....... I understand Ryzen Master is not meant to "Load" automatically any overclock you may have set for it to startup and auto apply those settings. I understand RM is simply capable of loading on the fly adjustments to bios. I tested it myself. It worked perfectly. ....... Fantastic.

I want to know how to auto-start Ryzen Master automatically with windows with full support and authority from the Windows drivers police..... just load up in the background. No warning Pop up, etc. Load to the system tray and from there if I want to pull up RM and apply a Profile I KNOW works, on the fly, ----well then....I'd be one one happy camper. Right now I can't seem to figure a way to do that and others (at least 1) agreed......

And yes to answer your question. I read elsewhere with hard math as proof that Ryzen more or less had 100% errors when related to a SOC v of Above 1.10 ....... So in my bios, I do have SOC V manual. > 1.09. HWinfo reads it no more than 1.04 and I believe that was under load.
1. Ryzen Master has certain merits when it comes to CPU [especially per-CCX] overclocking, but I have no idea why you would use it to change memory timings. Just do it in BIOS. Every memory overclocker who wants to do things properly, does.

2. I think Thaiphoon is capable of editing XMP profiles, but if you get to the point where you have worked out your own custom profile of frequency, timings, Vdram and VSoC (and maybe even VDDP and others) and made sure it's 100% stable thru MT86, P95 Large and HCI, you will have cleared CMOS and re-entered the values into BIOS so many times that you can redo it all in BIOS without touching your mouse and within 60 seconds. Therefore, reprogramming your sticks for unknown risk and zero gain by the time you're knowledgeable enough to do so is something I don't know why you would pursue.

3. I've never come across any comprehensive testing that says a 1.1V SoC voltage results in 100% memory errors on Matisse. Safe SoC is still <1.2V, and Zen2 likes its 1.1V for high frequency RAM. If your SoC is at 1.1V and you have memory errors, the errors are coming from your memory.

4. I'm somewhat sure (don't quote me on this) that XMP profiles generally only apply the primary timings on recent Asus boards. The rest is left on Auto and is determined when the board does its 1, 2 or 3 boot loops after apply the XMP in BIOS as it does memory training to figure out the other timings.

If you want to find out more about what the specific timings do, check out the Memtesthelper guide or the 1usmus guide (be warned that the 1usmus guide was written for Pinnacle Ridge and Summit Ridge as it's from early 2019, some things are different on Matisse).
 

the54thvoid

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
8,108 (2.09/day)
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
System Name Newer Ho'Ryzen
Processor Ryzen 3700X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VI Hero
Cooling TR Le Grand Macho
Memory 16Gb G.Skill 3200 RGB
Video Card(s) RTX 2080ti MSI Duke @2Ghz ish
Storage Samsumg 960 Pro m2. 512Gb
Display(s) LG 32" 165Hz 1440p GSYNC
Case Lian Li PC-V33WX
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic Prime TItanium 850
Software W10
Benchmark Scores Look, it's a Ryzen on air........ What's the point?
I use the DOCP setting on a X370 Hero, which runs my 2x8GB GSkill @ 3200Mhz/14t (hey it was first gen Ryzen). I've swapped up to a 3700X but my mobo still reboots 50-60% on start-up for memory training. It's mental. My mobo's got learning difficulties. But, I don't mind. You get older and you forgive your PC its idiosyncracies.
 
Top