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Forza 7 Performance of Vega64 beats 1080Ti?

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#1
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#2
Ahh driver improvement... the beckon call of the underdog.. :p

This is more an anomaly than sensible position. Beta title... and oddly enough when you go up in res, nvidia gets closer... with all that hbm2 bandwidth, and in the past, amd cards improved against nvidia as the res went up.
 
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#3
Somewhat unsurprising , we know Vega has the required hardware under the hood to out perform just about everything else on the market. Who knows , but yeah what we've seen up until now might really be not representative.

Ahh driver improvement... the beckon call of 2nd place.. :p

This is more an anomaly than sensible position. Beta title... and oddly enough when you go up in res, nvidia gets closer... with all that hbm2 bandwidth, and in the past, amd cards improved against nvidia as the res went up.
Funny how this is considered an anomaly but back when the first Project Cars was released a GTX 960 outperforming a 290X was normal ;).

Honestly looking at the chart with all the cards it looks exactly like the kind of scaling you would expect based on the hardware capabilities of each card and even price (more or less). If you call that an anomaly , well ... goes to show how twisted people's ideas have become over the years about how these things should perform.
 
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#4
It also shouldnt be a surprise considering Forza is originally an Xbox title, As such its game engine is more heavily tuned for AMDs hardware and Direct X this is much more true compared to more typical cross platform titles that end up on PS4 for example.

As such being optimized primarily for AMD hardware and Direct X API it should not be a huge surprise to see AMD benefit on occasion. Since to squeeze out every drop of performance Microsoft has likely optimized the render pipeline for AMDs architecture.
 
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#5
Funny how this is considered an anomaly but back when the first Project Cars was released a GTX 960 outperforming a 290X was normal ;).

Honestly looking at the chart with all the cards it looks exactly like the kind of scaling you would expect based on the hardware capabilities of each card and even price (more or less). If you call that an anomaly , well ... goes to show how twisted people's ideas have become over the years about how these things should perform.
No idea what you are talking about there with the 960... or your point here in this thread...who gives crap about that???? WTF???

So, you wouldn't call this an anomaly? Isn't it the only title where it comes close to or beats a 1080Ti? So, yeah, I'd call it an anomaly right now.

a·nom·a·ly
əˈnäməlē/
noun
  1. 1.
    something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.
 
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#6
Honestly looking at the chart with all the cards it looks exactly like the kind of scaling you would expect based on the hardware capabilities of each card and even price (more or less). If you call that an anomaly , well ... goes to show how twisted people's ideas have become over the years about how these things should perform.
Right, this was what I was going at, this seems like where it should perform based on core count and clock speed. I suppose the question will be whether this will continue in from AMD's part on other titles, or NV who will "fix" their performance on this title.
 
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#7
No idea what you are talking about there with the 960... or your point here in this thread...who gives crap about that???? WTF???
You can look that up , my point is there have been multiple situations of either AMD or Nvidia cards under performing ( more so for AMD ) , this is clearly not one of those scenarios.

So, you wouldn't call this an anomaly?
No I would not , there is nothing that suggest there is something unusual going on. It's simply hardware performing at the expected level. It doesn't matter if it is the only one , what's popular does not necessarily equal what should be the norm.

I am saying it again , looking at the underlying hardware capabilities of each card this ranking seems very close to what it should be. If you feel like there is something strange going on do tell. I really don't see anything.
 
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#8
1080Ti being only 25% faster than a 1070? Righttt
 
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#9
You can look that up , my point is there have been multiple situations of either AMD or Nvidia cards under performing ( more so for AMD ) , this is clearly not one of those scenarios.



No I would not , there is nothing that suggest there is something unusual going on. It's simply hardware performing at the expected level. It doesn't matter if it is the only one , what's popular does not necessarily equal what should be the norm.

I am saying it again , looking at the underlying hardware capabilities of each card this ranking seems very close to what it should be. If you feel like there is something strange going on do tell. I really don't see anything.
Dont bring other thread's garbage here... so petty, that behavior. Stay above board.

Lol, ok, so from a hardware perspective its not anomalous... gotcha.

From a RESULTS perspective, it most certainly is. This isnt standard, normal, nor expected result.
 
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#10
1080Ti being only 25% faster than a 1070? Righttt
At 4K the gap is 40% , considering the 1080Ti has about 40% more shaders , what do you find strange about it ? And if you talk about the 1080p results ,well that's definitely more CPU bound so there's that. Most games behave like this.

Dont bring other thread's garbage here... so petty, that behavior. Stay above board.
I genuinely don't know what you are talking about ? What other thread ?
 
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#11
@Vya Domus, was talking about 1080P and 1440P
 
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#12
Still , it's something that can be mostly attributed to a CPU bottleneck. Apparently Forza 7 stresses 1 core to 100% , that must definitely have something to do with it. But when the resolution goes up things look quite normal.
 
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#13
At 4k the 1080ti wins out as the CPU bottleneck is removed. Nvidia themselves have commented that this games behaviour is perfectly normal and their card is performing normally.
There will always be games out there that mess with one vendor. We accept them as aberrations, not typical.
AMD gets butchered in some titles and they are not representative of the hardwares ability, more incompatible coding to maximise performance.

EDIT: Just found this at Guru 3D

Earlier last week when the Forza 7 demo was released I was looking into a graphics performance review. Unfortunately the game is limited towards 30 or 60 FPS caps and a forced VSYNC setting, there is a workaround though.

Our German colleagues from computerbase.de have found a workaround, the full version can be unlocked in the cap, however as soon as you divert from the native resolution of your monitor, the sync kicks back in. Basically what the guys did was use an Ultra HD monitor, got rid of the cap and VSYNC, however in order to not restrict themselves, they re- sampled with the in-game up/down sampling options to match Full HD and Ultra HD resolutions (emulating them).
Game is not designed to run at more than 30 or 60 fps. Perhaps AMD's compute advantage let it take advantage of a messed about benchmark setting. Explains why Nvidia doesn't care, it's not how the game natively runs.
 
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#14
At 4k the 1080ti wins out as the CPU bottleneck is removed. Nvidia themselves have commented that this games behaviour is perfectly normal and their card is performing normally.
There will always be games out there that mess with one vendor. We accept them as aberrations, not typical.
AMD gets butchered in some titles and they are not representative of the hardwares ability, more incompatible coding to maximise performance.

EDIT: Just found this at Guru 3D



Game is not designed to run at more than 30 or 60 fps. Perhaps AMD's compute advantage let it take advantage of a messed about benchmark setting. Explains why Nvidia doesn't care, it's not how the game natively runs.
If you run the 60fps vsync option the cap is your refresh rate not 60.
 
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#15
At 4k the 1080ti wins out as the CPU bottleneck is removed. Nvidia themselves have commented that this games behaviour is perfectly normal and their card is performing normally.
There will always be games out there that mess with one vendor. We accept them as aberrations, not typical.
AMD gets butchered in some titles and they are not representative of the hardwares ability, more incompatible coding to maximise performance.

EDIT: Just found this at Guru 3D



Game is not designed to run at more than 30 or 60 fps. Perhaps AMD's compute advantage let it take advantage of a messed about benchmark setting. Explains why Nvidia doesn't care, it's not how the game natively runs.
Anomoly confirmed. :p
 
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#16
I know I'm not adding much to this thread...

But ever since the Vega line came out, I noticed the term "fine wine" among others, become popular mainly to defend or justify this line. Coming from ATI radeon 9800 pro up to 295x2 I never really noticed anything more than +/-10% of improvements with driver optimization, there are of course exceptions here, but that's what it seemed like across the board. I sincerely dont expect this to be an exception, AMD's next gen should be better but not because of driver optimizations, but instead, knowing how to use their tech better from launch and do minor improvements down the line with the driver thus continuing the cycle.
 

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#17
Game is not designed to run at more than 30 or 60 fps.
That isn't true... Well it was with the demo, but the devs have said that the cap won't be in the retail version.

I hope Nvidia gets a new driver out for this game... and the fact the current drivers aren't very good.
 

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#18
I know I'm not adding much to this thread...

But ever since the Vega line came out, I noticed the term "fine wine" among others, become popular mainly to defend or justify this line. Coming from ATI radeon 9800 pro up to 295x2 I never really noticed anything more than +/-10% of improvements with driver optimization, there are of course exceptions here, but that's what it seemed like across the board. I sincerely dont expect this to be an exception, AMD's next gen should be better but not because of driver optimizations, but instead, knowing how to use their tech better from launch and do minor improvements down the line with the driver thus continuing the cycle.
the HD 7970 and 6970 had a huge bump in performance with drivers
 

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#19
This kind of performance advantage of AMD over NVIDIA is the kind of leapfrogging that I would have expected to see across most popular titles and in other DX modes, not just this. Still, it's better than nothing. Note the following.

1 Could this performance advantage be present across more DX12 titles? I sure hope so as we really need the competition and note I'm a long time NVIDIA user for those who think I fanboy towards NVIDIA.

2 NVIDIA brings out a new, driver optimized for every game release, so will this performance advantage lessen or disappear when that happens? We therefore need to wait a couple of days for the game's release before declaring AMD the winner on this game. It's gonna be interesting.
 
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#20
Hmmm.
 
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#21
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#22
the HD 7970 and 6970 had a huge bump in performance with drivers
Honestly that is the one generation I didn't kept for long owned a 6950 for a couple of months to a 7990 for another couple of months. But looking back, you are right. Hopefully this proves to be the case for this gen.
 

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#23
I don't know why everyone is getting bent out of shape over this. AMD has one title that their gpu that is physically larger and more expensive to produce beats Nvidias slimmed lineup. It also probably won't be a thing after new drivers drop.
 
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Display(s) 3x AOC 2425W + ViewSonic VA2855Smh + 2x Dell E178FP
Case Phantec Enthoo Pro
Audio Device(s) LucidSound LS30
Power Supply Rosewill Fortress 750w
Mouse G.Skill MX780 RGB
Keyboard G.Skill KM780 RGB (Brown switches)
Software Windows 10 Professional
Benchmark Scores Technical term is PEBCAK issue, which stands for Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard
#24

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
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System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
#25
This kind of performance advantage of AMD over NVIDIA is the kind of leapfrogging that I would have expected to see across most popular titles and in other DX modes, not just this. Still, it's better than nothing. Note the following.

1 Could this performance advantage be present across more DX12 titles? I sure hope so as we really need the competition and note I'm a long time NVIDIA user for those who think I fanboy towards NVIDIA.

2 NVIDIA brings out a new, driver optimized for every game release, so will this performance advantage lessen or disappear when that happens? We therefore need to wait a couple of days for the game's release before declaring AMD the winner on this game. It's gonna be interesting.

I like competition myself. It gets boring if market dominance was there like it was with intel in the cpu department.