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G.Skill F4-4600C19-8GTZKKC 2x8GB Wont run @ DOCP on Asus B550F = Any ideas?

Logikal

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Hey guys,

My newly built Ryzen 5900x /Asus Strix B550F wifi went together smoothly, but I cant seem to get the RAM dialed in

Been using a single 2x8GB kit of G.Skill F4-4600C19-8GTZKKC ive had for 2 years from my 8086K build (which the RAM clocked without issues) but on the B550 I cant seem to get it over 3800.

This kit is an odd duck, and doesn't have much audience. I believe its EOL now, using Samsung B-die (Revision A1) to save a bit of sleuthing the Samsung B-Die white paper is here

I followed a few YouTube vids and 1usmus's DRAM Calc. but it errors out when I use the data output from from my kit w/ Thaiphoon HTML report export (4600, etc)

Ive used the safe calc settings - still no dice. I get post error and have to flash-back BIOS.

My goal would be 1933 FCLK and 3866 RAM with tighter timings.

Any ideas?

L

GSkillRAM_VR-PC_050821.jpg
 

INSTG8R

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Even timings would be my first suggestion without disabling GDM(you’d rather not)
 
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Hey guys,

My newly built Ryzen 5900x /Asus Strix B550F wifi went together smoothly, but I cant seem to get the RAM dialed in

Been using a single 2x8GB kit of G.Skill F4-4600C19-8GTZKKC ive had for 2 years from my 8086K build (which the RAM clocked without issues) but on the B550 I cant seem to get it over 3800.

This kit is an odd duck, and doesn't have much audience. I believe its EOL now, using Samsung B-die (Revision A1) to save a bit of sleuthing the Samsung B-Die white paper is here

I followed a few YouTube vids and 1usmus's DRAM Calc. but it errors out when I use the data output from from my kit w/ Thaiphoon HTML report export (4600, etc)

Ive used the safe calc settings - still no dice. I get post error and have to flash-back BIOS.

My goal would be 1933 FCLK and 3866 RAM with tighter timings.

Any ideas?

L

View attachment 199707
You might have to dial back to 1900mhz Infinity Fabric and 3800mhz ram, probably better to to try and get gear down mode off first, it can be done with the right settings ie procodt,cad bus,soc voltage and vdimm its a lot of work, ive done it personally with my ram, have you update the bios to the latest version ?
 

Logikal

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You might have to dial back to 1900mhz Infinity Fabric and 3800mhz ram, probably better to to try and get gear down mode off first, it can be done with the right settings ie procodt,cad bus,soc voltage and vdimm its a lot of work, ive done it personally with my ram, have you update the bios to the latest version ?
Important point - Yes. All work has been performed on the updated BIOS - latest 2201 Beta
 
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The quick way to try is to enable D.O.C.P. and have FCLK on auto.
Your ram may have two xmp profiles with one being a slightly lower frequency than the rated spec.
 
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1. DOCP is XMP - looks like there's only one XMP profile and trying just the 4600CL19 XMP will be more trouble than it's worth. But you can still leave DOCP on so the board takes care of minor voltages and subtimings, just remember to manually set your FCLK and MCLK to what you want it to be.

2. My money would be on it being A2. Thaiphoon is often wrong. It's a top kit, A0 4600 is possible but I don't feel as though G.skill would bin a kit on A0 PCB for what is basically the very limit of the freq that A0 can achieve. It's easy to visually inspect whether it's A0 or A2.

3. Ryzen mem compatibility has improved in recent years but Skylake to Kaby Lake-era kits are considered very old, and with kits of that vintage you may have compatibility issues that are hard to explain/rectify.

4. Shouldn't have to mess with CADBUS for just POSTing 3600-3800 (aside from IF concerns). Ideal procODT also differs for single rank and dual rank kits, and honestly, every kit.

5. No reason to disable GDM when you're trying to establish what's stable, it helps your stability over pure 1T. Either GDM On, or go straight to GDM off and 2T. Run 1T GDM off before you've had time to work out what VDIMM you need and whether you can viably push 1T no GDM with tweaked CADBUS is a complete waste of your time at this stage.

6. Get Zentimings, it's our equivalent of ASRock timing configurator: ZenTimings (protonrom.com)

Start at 3600/3733 with something relatively easy like this, and post up a screenshot with ZT if you are able to get into Windows. You can still enable DOCP, just manually set FCLK in the dropdown on the main page to 1800/1833 and freq to 3600/3733, and change the timings you need to change.

Inked4200 16-16-16 135ns - Copy_LI.jpg
  • tRFC of 320 or so probably works for now and won't require extra VDIMM.
  • 1.35-1.4V VDIMM should work.
  • Either disable GDM and set 2T, or enable GDM.
Post up a ZT screenshot if you can make it work, kinda interested to see what VSOC, CLDOs, CADBUS and procODT the board is defaulting to on this kit XMP.

If you want a quick refresher on how AMD timings work, this guide gives a good basic rundown: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at master · integralfx/MemTestHelper · GitHub
 
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hmmm I would shoot for 16,16,17,16 32 48 GDM on first but be careful as asus tRCDRD 17 in this case is the other way round in asus bios compared to the dram calc...

That one beat me for a while ha, see the below screen shot of my ram.....




ZenTimings_Screenshot.png

 

Logikal

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1. DOCP is XMP - looks like there's only one XMP profile and trying just the 4600CL19 XMP will be more trouble than it's worth. But you can still leave DOCP on so the board takes care of minor voltages and subtimings, just remember to manually set your FCLK and MCLK to what you want it to be.

2. My money would be on it being A2. Thaiphoon is often wrong. It's a top kit, A0 4600 is possible but I don't feel as though G.skill would bin a kit on A0 PCB for what is basically the very limit of the freq that A0 can achieve. It's easy to visually inspect whether it's A0 or A2.

3. Ryzen mem compatibility has improved in recent years but Skylake to Kaby Lake-era kits are considered very old, and with kits of that vintage you may have compatibility issues that are hard to explain/rectify.

4. Shouldn't have to mess with CADBUS for just POSTing 3600-3800 (aside from IF concerns). Ideal procODT also differs for single rank and dual rank kits, and honestly, every kit.

5. No reason to disable GDM when you're trying to establish what's stable, it helps your stability over pure 1T. Either GDM On, or go straight to GDM off and 2T. Run 1T GDM off before you've had time to work out what VDIMM you need and whether you can viably push 1T no GDM with tweaked CADBUS is a complete waste of your time at this stage.

6. Get Zentimings, it's our equivalent of ASRock timing configurator: ZenTimings (protonrom.com)

Start at 3600/3733 with something relatively easy like this, and post up a screenshot with ZT if you are able to get into Windows. You can still enable DOCP, just manually set FCLK in the dropdown on the main page to 1800/1833 and freq to 3600/3733, and change the timings you need to change.

View attachment 199714
  • tRFC of 320 or so probably works for now and won't require extra VDIMM.
  • 1.35-1.4V VDIMM should work.
  • Either disable GDM and set 2T, or enable GDM.
Post up a ZT screenshot if you can make it work, kinda interested to see what VSOC, CLDOs, CADBUS and procODT the board is defaulting to on this kit XMP.

If you want a quick refresher on how AMD timings work, this guide gives a good basic rundown: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at master · integralfx/MemTestHelper · GitHub
Lots to unpack i your reply, much appreciated. I'll give it a shot and get back tomorrow

L
 

Logikal

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So I adjusted the settings, specifically FCLK to 1866 and RAM freq. to 3833 GDM off and 2T - Now computer wont boot. Removed BIOS battery, tried to flash back, powered off for a day, removed RAM, nothing. Anyone know how to revive this thing?
 
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Do you have an old video card? I used a GTX 580 and that snapped her out of it. Although I didn't go to extremes such as flashing..
 
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So I adjusted the settings, specifically FCLK to 1866 and RAM freq. to 3833 GDM off and 2T - Now computer wont boot. Removed BIOS battery, tried to flash back, powered off for a day, removed RAM, nothing. Anyone know how to revive this thing?

Don't tell me you removed the battery but didn't clear the CMOS jumper...?

1866 is not half of 3833. 1866 IF is 1:1 for 3733.

Did you remember to load the XMP profile first? If you're just starting from JEDEC the motherboard will not set VDIMM (1.5V) and VSOC for you (1.1V). 1.2V JEDEC spec will certainly not be booting 3866.
 
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I did that.. it has a good memory lol..
 
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Only very good motherboards, usually 2DIMMers will actually do 4600 XMPs reliably without fiddling.

Getting good FCLK performance, particularly on Zen3 requires tweaking with the SoC voltages (SOC, VDDGs, cLDO VDDP). Many chips will max out at 1900 FCLK.
VDDG IOD remains to have the same scaling like Matisse, it feels comfortable near 980-1080mV
VDDG CCD has negative scaling beyond 950-980mV. It has positive scaling sub 940mV, down to 850mV
SOC has a big range 980-1280mV
cLDO_VDDP max limits of 1050mV are the same (866-900mV being optimal, over 950mV a waste)

Make sure you are on a good BIOS and aim for 3800 14-15/10-14 (CAS-RCDRD/RCDWR-RP) and then try 14-14-14 with around 1.45v, GDM on, ensure CWL is no higher than CAS, and 1T command rate (maybe will need closer to 1.48-1.5v). You can generally leave subtimings alone initially. On Ryzen I usually go through timings in the following order: CAS RCDs RP => RFC => RTP RAS RC => RRDs FAW => CWL WR.

RFC should be safe at 300 (can go lower though). RTP 12 is pretty safe, can go to around 8 or a bit lower usually. RAS should be fine at RCDRD+RTP (can set lower but this is the minimum practical). RC should be fine at RAS+RP. RRDs should be safe at 5/6 for S and L respectively, but basically all b-die should do 4/4. FAW should be 4x the shortest RRD, can add 2-4 extra to be safe at first. CWL should be no more than CAS, can go lower but varies a lot. WR 16 should be safe but can usually go down to somewhere between 10 and 14.

Note that with GDM on, CAS, WR, RTP, and CWL should be even. Some boards will automatically revert to the next (longer) even interval, but it may be the cause of stability problems so it is best to specifically enter even timings for those.

Leave termination settings (ODT/RTTs and drive strengths) alone, especially with single rank b-die basically all modern AM4 boards should set everything sensibly.

Turning off GDM is a rabbit hole of finely tuning voltages and termination settings, I'd suggest getting good settings for the rest first.
 

Logikal

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System revived and will continue tweaking over the weekend. Thanks @tabascosauz - Noticed the Ryzen 5900x CPU package hit 65+c when sitting idle. Might remount. Stay tuned gents.
 

Logikal

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Life took priority last few weeks but back at it again. snapshot of Zen timings attached

After tweaking a bit system wouldnt post, ive tried the suggestions posted earlier. Open to guidance here
 

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  • Logik_zen.png
    Logik_zen.png
    212.5 KB · Views: 22
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System revived and will continue tweaking over the weekend. Thanks @tabascosauz - Noticed the Ryzen 5900x CPU package hit 65+c when sitting idle. Might remount. Stay tuned gents.
check that the windows power plan is set to balanced with the slider to the left.
otherwise the CPU sits at up to 1.5V at idle instead of 800-900mv.
but 65°C is still pretty warm. that's higher than my 5950x in cinebench
 

Logikal

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1. DOCP is XMP - looks like there's only one XMP profile and trying just the 4600CL19 XMP will be more trouble than it's worth. But you can still leave DOCP on so the board takes care of minor voltages and subtimings, just remember to manually set your FCLK and MCLK to what you want it to be.

2. My money would be on it being A2. Thaiphoon is often wrong. It's a top kit, A0 4600 is possible but I don't feel as though G.skill would bin a kit on A0 PCB for what is basically the very limit of the freq that A0 can achieve. It's easy to visually inspect whether it's A0 or A2.

3. Ryzen mem compatibility has improved in recent years but Skylake to Kaby Lake-era kits are considered very old, and with kits of that vintage you may have compatibility issues that are hard to explain/rectify.

4. Shouldn't have to mess with CADBUS for just POSTing 3600-3800 (aside from IF concerns). Ideal procODT also differs for single rank and dual rank kits, and honestly, every kit.

5. No reason to disable GDM when you're trying to establish what's stable, it helps your stability over pure 1T. Either GDM On, or go straight to GDM off and 2T. Run 1T GDM off before you've had time to work out what VDIMM you need and whether you can viably push 1T no GDM with tweaked CADBUS is a complete waste of your time at this stage.

6. Get Zentimings, it's our equivalent of ASRock timing configurator: ZenTimings (protonrom.com)

Start at 3600/3733 with something relatively easy like this, and post up a screenshot with ZT if you are able to get into Windows. You can still enable DOCP, just manually set FCLK in the dropdown on the main page to 1800/1833 and freq to 3600/3733, and change the timings you need to change.

View attachment 199714
  • tRFC of 320 or so probably works for now and won't require extra VDIMM.
  • 1.35-1.4V VDIMM should work.
  • Either disable GDM and set 2T, or enable GDM.
Post up a ZT screenshot if you can make it work, kinda interested to see what VSOC, CLDOs, CADBUS and procODT the board is defaulting to on this kit XMP.

If you want a quick refresher on how AMD timings work, this guide gives a good basic rundown: MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at master · integralfx/MemTestHelper · GitHub

Had success with DOCP on, FCLK 1800 MCLK 3600, GDM on and VDIMM @ 1.4 - Kept it simple to start. This seems stable. ZT snapshot attached

Going to push it a bit and try some of @GorbazTheDragon settings next.


Alright, made some great progress with the help of you guys- thanks for that!

Although I had stability @ MCLK 3866 / 1933 FCLK @ 14-14-14 @ 1.475v, I Settled at 3800 at 1.465. SuperPi runs solid, time to test it in-game. Attached is current settings.
 

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  • Logik_zen_3866_CAS14.png
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I'd suggest pushing the RRDs, FAW, and WTR a bit, those generally give good performance gains. WR as well.
 
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