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GeForce GTX 260 with 216 Stream Processors Pictured, Benchmarked

newtekie1

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#51
Ahead???
It's not how many spu's you put it's how much computing power you put on the die.The 4870 has 1200 giga flops/cycle of processing power vs 933 for the 280gtx.
The 280gtx has 2.5x bigger die than th 4870 "576mm vs 234mm". Yet...

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/5
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15105/6
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/8
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964-8.html
http:
//www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4870,1964-10.html
It isn't about GFLOPS, it is about graphical performance. GFLOPs don't matter in gaming cards, now if we are using the cards for other things, then we can lookg at GFLOPs. Die size doesn't matter either, it all comes down to performance. The 280GTX outperforms the HD4870, the 260GTX matches the HD4870, despite the bigger die and lower GFLOPs. You are making arguments about things, that in the end, don't matter. Performance and price is all that matters here.
 
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#52
Gosh, what an increase on Crysis. I hope this is just another Chinese tech hoax cause if not AMD is gonna have to painfully plan another revision of the HD 4800 series. Or worse, overclock them so that we can't.
 

newtekie1

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#53
here in greece the 4870 is still much lower in price so why should i care about anything above its price, and it performs very close to 260gtx . give me an answer that beats this reason please all you NV fans.
Well here in the US, the 260GTX is $225 and the HD4870 is $250, so why should I care about the HD4870. Give me an answer that beats this reason.

The prices in Greece don't really matter to me.

Here is W1z's latest Price/Performance chart:



The HD4870 and GTX260 are neck and neck according to that, but with the recent GTX260 price drops, the GTX260 is definitely the better buy.
 
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#54
so glad i got a 4850
 
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#55
Well here in the US, the 260GTX is $225 and the HD4870 is $250, so why should I care about the HD4870. Give me an answer that beats this reason.

The prices in Greece don't really matter to me.

Here is W1z's latest Price/Performance chart:



The HD4870 and GTX260 are neck and neck according to that, but with the recent GTX260 price drops, the GTX260 is definitely the better buy.
depends what you wanna use it for
if you want to play Call of Duty/GRID then ATI = win
if you want to use it in a HTPC then ATI = win as in supports 7.1 Lossless LPCM via hdmi out
 

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#56
Fact is, a single G200 core is faster than a single RV770 in most real world situations.
RV770-based products can be sold for as low as $150, and I'm talking about finished ones. ATI has delivered wtf-levels of performance at a very low price point. G92/G94 is history. Only UNICEF rescue-aid kind of pricing can sell it in today's market. RV770 wasn't designed to take on G200 either. It's become a policy for ATI not to develop large monolithic GPUs ever, instead develop powerful, cheap GPUs that can be used in dual-GPU boards to compete against monolithic high-end from NVIDIA, or single ones in high/mainstream boards. That scheme didn't quite take-off with RV670, apparently with RV770 it just worked.
 
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#57
RV770-based products can be sold for as low as $150, and I'm talking about finished ones. ATI has delivered wtf-levels of performance at a very low price point. G92/G94 is history. Only UNICEF rescue-aid kind of pricing can sell it in today's market. RV770 wasn't designed to take on G200 either. It's become a policy for ATI not to develop large monolithic GPUs ever, instead develop powerful, cheap GPUs that can be used in dual-GPU boards to compete against monolithic high-end from NVIDIA, or single ones in high/mainstream boards. That scheme didn't quite take-off with RV670, apparently with RV770 it just worked.
Yup the R770 wasn't design to compete against the g200 series.AMD didn't expect Nvidia to deliver such average level of performance with their new cards.I mean The 280gtx is not even faster than the older 9800gx2 inspite of the huge die size of the card.What happened is that the 4870 appeared to be a win.The card competes with Nvidia's top end card with less than half the die size and 65% of its power consumption.
Anyways, the more competition there is the better choices we "consumers" have.
 

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#58
RV770-based products can be sold for as low as $150, and I'm talking about finished ones. ATI has delivered wtf-levels of performance at a very low price point. G92/G94 is history. Only UNICEF rescue-aid kind of pricing can sell it in today's market. RV770 wasn't designed to take on G200 either. It's become a policy for ATI not to develop large monolithic GPUs ever, instead develop powerful, cheap GPUs that can be used in dual-GPU boards to compete against monolithic high-end from NVIDIA, or single ones in high/mainstream boards. That scheme didn't quite take-off with RV670, apparently with RV770 it just worked.
I didn't mention anything about price to performance. It was mentioned that RV770 is more powerful than G200, when it isn't. I was only commenting on the FUD posted, not whether the RV770 is a good product or not. I already know it is.
 
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#59
Smart move by nVidia, this should bring the GTX260's performance past that of the HD4870. I'll stick with my 9800GTX's until the 45nm cards come out though.



No it won't, the 1GB HD4870 just barely outperforms the current GTX260. The GTX260 with the updated shaders should surpass the 1GB HD4870..



I don't know what you are talking about, nVidia's GTX280 is still better than ATi's cards, I would say nVidia has produced a better card than ATi/AMD. Releasing cards at different price points is how the graphic industry works, it is what they do.
nVidia's GTX280 is still better than ATi's cards
is still better than ATi's cards
better than ATi's cards

Has never heard of a 4870X2:roll:
 
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#60
here in greece the 4870 is still much lower in price so why should i care about anything above its price, and it performs very close to 260gtx . give me an answer that beats this reason please all you NV fans.
That was actually a funny pointless (and egocentric) argument. Well newtekie already gave you a reason and I'm not really a fan of any brand, just the best bang for the buck, but if you really thought you had a point there, I'll give you another more important one (than yours, not newtekie's). In Spain GTX260 can be found way cheaper than HD4870. There you have. Overall sales in Spain are WAY HIGHER than on Greece, yet way smaller than the ones on the rest of the world. What I mean is who really cares the price of the cards in Greece?

Prices from Newegg. Are the first ones that appear when you sort them out by lowest price:

GTX260 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133229 - $240, $220 after MIR.

The list: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=gtx 260&bop=And&Order=PRICE

HD4870 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129113 - $260

The list: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=hd4870&bop=And&Order=PRICE

Actually the cheaper one after MIR is the Palit one at $250 after MIR, but you can see the difference between both cards at this moment.

In the end is a matter of choice, but based purely on price/performance Nvidia right now wins hands down. Following your logic, most people in the world (based on number of buyers) shouldn't even consider the HD4870, right?
 
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#61
nVidia's GTX280 is still better than ATi's cards
is still better than ATi's cards
better than ATi's cards

TY SO MUCH FOR THAT LAFF! Do you really still say you are not an Nvidia fanboy?:roll:

Has never heard of a 4870X2:roll:
Post something worthwhile, how does calling someone a fanboy help this discussion? You need to see his perspective, not just his post. Yes, the GTX 280 is better. For as low as $420, that's a hell of a card versus a $549 4870 X2, and there are reasons to back that statement. Try to read thru the thread or make a credible argument, not "omg lolololol, fanboy".
 

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#62
ATI happens to be top dog atm which gives them the benefit of setting

the higher price much like Nvidia did when they where on top.
 
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#63
RV770-based products can be sold for as low as $150, and I'm talking about finished ones. ATI has delivered wtf-levels of performance at a very low price point. G92/G94 is history. Only UNICEF rescue-aid kind of pricing can sell it in today's market. RV770 wasn't designed to take on G200 either. It's become a policy for ATI not to develop large monolithic GPUs ever, instead develop powerful, cheap GPUs that can be used in dual-GPU boards to compete against monolithic high-end from NVIDIA, or single ones in high/mainstream boards. That scheme didn't quite take-off with RV670, apparently with RV770 it just worked.
(Not really a reply to your post, just my analisis of the situation)

I have to disagree with Ati's strategy. If we talk about actual products, I agree that Ati has delivered the better mainstream ones this round. But to answer your last sentence, RV770 just worked, because Nvidia failed in the first place. Had Nvidia used 55nm/GDDR5/256bit (lower prices) or simply had better yields (better prices again), or would have been able to clock the cards where they wanted (higher performance that would have made RV770 slow in comparison), RV770 wouldn't have been so appealing. Also IMO NONE of them has delivered a good high-end card. Yes ATi's X2 is FASTER, but I would never say BETTER for many reasons. There's a lot more to a card than pure performance, like power consumption, heat, etc.

That leads me to the point. We have talked about the chips, let's talk about architectures. Ati has talked so much about the benefits of multi-small-GPUs versus monolithic GPUs, but in the end what the final products show, for those of us that are not blind, is that the monolithic architecture has won this battle hands down. Ati chips had many advantages against Nvidia's ones in this particular battle:

1 - 55nm.
2 - GDDR5.
2b - 256 bit memory interface.
3- No CUDA support. Today that's a huge advantage. Nvidia chips have actual hardware which is specific to CUDA. Basically that's adding many transistors (a good chunk BTW -> full 64 bit computing...) that don't help increasing framerates. Because CUDA is not established yet, that's a dissadvantage, but we'll see in the future.

Even with those advantages and Nvidia's 40% yields fiasco, Ati has not really won this round, because Nvidia has been able to lower the prices in order to regain the performance/price lead and still make money. Well that's a bit of speculation on my part, but one of the main problems was those low yields and if 216 SP GTX260 is feasible now, yields have improved a lot for sure. Contrary to what many people think, PCB complexity is not such an issue anymore. First of all, things are expensive when they are new and scarce (and they are not now, that is) and secondly, dual 256bit designs, although not as complex as 512bit ones, it is also complex enough so that the difference gets smaller.

Nvidia already had the performance/watt one, something that doesn't help protraying Ati's multi-GPU strategy very well to say the least. In the next round, both Ati and Nvidia will play with the same weapons (40nm, GDDR5, low memory buses) and common sense says that Nvidia has many chances to win every front by a huge margin with the simple evolution of their architecture. Unless Ati does something a lot more revolutionary than evolve/refine the strategy they have today, they won't have anything to do against Nvidia's next gen IMHO. Ati is been lagging behind despite their fab process advantage and that's a big one of advantage. RV770 was the secret weapon and has won, but not to the point it should have in order to demostrate their strategy is the best one long term.
 

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#64
-too hot
not much gain
-too hot
barely any performance increase
-still too hot
thing costs as much as some small computers
-WAY too hot
face it nvidia has lost this generation :nutkick:
-DAM thing will probably fail and fry like the others because its, too hot
this is also coming from a guy with 2 9800GX2s
-OMG its the sun
Guess what DAMMIT never wanted to take on Nvidia
-the dam stickers are pealing off from the heat
R700 series was made for efficiency, performance per watt, and performance per dollar
-omg water cooling is boiling
kicked nvidia's so bad they paniced and drooped prices like a rock pissing off OEM dealers
-i think im getting a tan

now on the flip side to this i also got ati cards here is what i think
-WTF Drivers suck
Nvidia still has grate preformance
-Stock heat sinks blow
Nvidia has kicked ati's @$$ for a long time
-it has almost 4 times the horse power but the drivers blow

that's all i can think of at 4 in the morning
 
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#65
Too hot? Are you kidding? Have you seen other cards from both brands lately?

Also I really, really, REALLY hope Ati didn't design R700 with efficiency and performance per watt in mind. Otherwise they failed so badly... No, they designed it with performance per price in mind and everything else was secondary. They succeeded and that's good.

TBH I like to think this way because it portraits a better and stronger Ati and we all want a strong Ati.
 

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#66
Tbh,i dont care if my card is ati or nvidia.I bought my 4850 'cause it was faster than the 3850 i had and was the same price i payed for the 3850....win.

Also,there is faar to much fanboy slanging crap goin on,play nice guys.Does it really matter which is faster or cheaper or hotter or cooler.We are all pc fans in here and it dont really matter if your card is ati or nvidia,just enjoy what you bought and respect the fact that not everyone shares your opinion.
 
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#67
That was actually a funny pointless (and egocentric) argument. Well newtekie already gave you a reason and I'm not really a fan of any brand, just the best bang for the buck, but if you really thought you had a point there, I'll give you another more important one (than yours, not newtekie's). In Spain GTX260 can be found way cheaper than HD4870. There you have. Overall sales in Spain are WAY HIGHER than on Greece, yet way smaller than the ones on the rest of the world. What I mean is who really cares the price of the cards in Greece?

Prices from Newegg. Are the first ones that appear when you sort them out by lowest price:

GTX260 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133229 - $240, $220 after MIR.

The list: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=gtx 260&bop=And&Order=PRICE

HD4870 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129113 - $260

The list: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=hd4870&bop=And&Order=PRICE

Actually the cheaper one after MIR is the Palit one at $250 after MIR, but you can see the difference between both cards at this moment.

In the end is a matter of choice, but based purely on price/performance Nvidia right now wins hands down. Following your logic, most people in the world (based on number of buyers) shouldn't even consider the HD4870, right?[/QUOTE

i care only for the prices over here tell me why should i care about prices around the world:banghead: isnt that logical enough? im not trying to convince anyone to buy the 4870 because i like it! my point was that in my situation the 4870 is the best choice. and for your information until the 3850 i owned nvidia cards and i was very pleased with their performance. darkmatter i think that you missunder stood my point and i liked your above mentioned point. sorry if i pissed you off it was never intentional
 
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#68
Tbh,i dont care if my card is ati or nvidia.I bought my 4850 'cause it was faster than the 3850 i had and was the same price i payed for the 3850....win.

Also,there is faar to much fanboy slanging crap goin on,play nice guys.Does it really matter which is faster or cheaper or hotter or cooler.We are all pc fans in here and it dont really matter if your card is ati or nvidia,just enjoy what you bought and respect the fact that not everyone shares your opinion.
your the only person who is logical around here anymore:respect::toast:, everyone here is extremely blinded by their own stupidity that they have to bash everyone who is not the same as them:shadedshu

Those people are called sheep. Call me a hypocrite but it is the damned truth!
:mad:

I recall this website primarily being here to help others who are having a problem with their "personal confuser" (Thank You Leo Laporte- Call for Help/ The Screen Savers)
 
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#69
i care only for the prices over here tell me why should i care about prices around the world:banghead: isnt that logical enough? im not trying to convince anyone to buy the 4870 because i like it! my point was that in my situation the 4870 is the best choice. and for your information until the 3850 i owned nvidia cards and i was very pleased with their performance.
What was the point of posting that then? Why in the way you did it?

You have to take into account more than your country and you in a foreign forum don't you think? Price/performance of the cards were being discused, amongst other things, if you were not implying the HD4870 was cheper/better, if you were not trying to make a point, what was the point of posting?

I bought my 8800GT for 203 euros (retail VAT included, I think it was a typo in their listings, but since they have to follow them... :laugh:) when every other 8800GT was 250-300 AND cheapest HD3870 I could find back then was 240. But you will not see me, posting something like 8800GT was cheaper, why should I take the HD3870? Eh, come on Ati fans tell me.
 
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#70
im not an ati fanboy darkmatter if you care, i just want the best that i can buy with my money and you are right in an international forum i should take into account more than just the prices in my region. as for performance you should agree that both cards are very close and they both are very good products wish ati had better drivers...
 

eidairaman1

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#71
boy people dont know when to shut up do they

People arguing like this will be the downfall of the site, because it gives reason for new users to not hang around and ask questions because they are affraid that they will be bashed because they have one companies product and not the other.


I have an idea how about i call in the mods to have this topic cleaned up and possibly locked because, fanboys always go into the opposing companies product topic and spew negativities.
 
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#72
im not an ati fanboy darkmatter if you care, i just want the best that i can buy with my money and you are right in an international forum i should take into account more than just the prices in my region. as for performance you should agree that both cards are very close and they both are very good products wish ati had better drivers...
Didn't call you fanboy, nor I think you are*. I don't reply to people anyway, I ALWAYS reply to posts and arguments, and it just happens that one of yours was illogical. I see your logic though, don't worry, it's just that when there are discussions about price/performance and such, arguments like "I can have XXXX card for XX" or "for me xx is cheaper" are way off, if they don't represent a reality for the mayority of potential readers. Especially when they are written in a way that it seems they pretend to be a fact. Maybe it's just the way I understood it anyway.

*Maybe you thought I did, because of my last sentence or something? I only pretended to reproduce your post using my own experience.
 

eidairaman1

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#73
ya im a hypocrite, My Opinion:

I think Nvidia is releasing this Chip so they can sell the rest of the GTX 200 Stock off (I think the new GTX260b is basically a weakened form of the GTX280 (some defective SPs but not as many as the current GTX260).
 
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#75
ya im a hypocrite, My Opinion:

I think Nvidia is releasing this Chip so they can sell the rest of the GTX 200 Stock off (I think the new GTX260b is basically a weakened form of the GTX280 (some defective SPs but not as many as the current GTX260).
Haha a little bit off topic here isn't it? ;)

About the "GTX260b" being a weakened GTX280. Of course, that's exactly what it is. That's exactly what GTX260 is.

But about being it a way to sell the GTX200 stock, I don't think it's only because of that. I have said thi before, that IMO Nvidia when they design their chips their goal is to make the chip so that the second card can be the same one with one cluster dissabled. But in order for this you need good yields, if you don't have enough of them you have to dissable one more. Yields is the one thing you can improve a lot over the time, so possibly right now dissabling one cluster is enough to assure a high yield rate.