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GFX Card fans and others won't spin after computer restart

n_m

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Full Specs:
OS: Windows 10 Home
GFX: NVIDIA 980ti (MSI GTX 980ti Armor 2X OC)
Cooler: Thermal Take Cooler + 2 fans
PSU: TS XFX 750
Processor: Intel i7-8700k 3.70GHz
Fan: ETS N30 150W
Motherboard: Z370 Gaming Plus (MS-7B61)
Monitor 1: Acer S277HK 27" ~60Hz
Monitor 2: Dell E228WFP 22" ~60Hz

GFX Fan 1: So, I've had this GFX card for a bit now. I've had it as long as my PSU (6 years?). Recently (within the past year or 2), one of the two fans stopped spinning (GFX Fan 1). I opened up the case and basically used a fork to force it to spin. It spun for a while, but it would stop when I would restart my computer. I would have to nudge it to spin in order for it to spin again. This method worked for quite some time (maybe a couple of months). Sometimes it would make this loud grinding noise, which initially made me think it was a mechanical issue with a faulty graphics card. Eventually, it stopped spinning entirely, even when nudging it after a restart.

ETS N30: Around this same time, my ETS N30 also encountered the same exact problem. It would stop spinning and not automatically start spinning when I would restart my computer. It was only when I nudged it, it would start spinning. Eventually, it clunked out and wouldn't spin at all, exactly like Fan 1 on my GFX. After this happened, I suspected that my GFX card wasn't malfunctioning, and that it was something else (unless it was a strange coincidence).

GFX Fan 2: Within the last month, Fan 2 started having the same problem. I would have to start the spin manually with a fork in order start it spinning. This method worked for a couple of weeks, but eventually clunked out. When I do force it, I give it a little push. Sometimes it would spin a little bit, but it would stop directly after. But it hasn't worked in the past few days, unfortunately.

Temperature: When playing games, my GFX would get extremely hot, sometimes causing a CTD. To prevent it from crashing, I opened the case. After Fan 2 clunked out, it stays around 60-70C idle and 91-93C under most modern games (WoW, FFXIV and Rocksmith 2014). Before Fan 2 clunked out, I used to play at 1440p. But even 1080p in Rocksmith and WoW leads to frame rate stuttering now (30-60fps). It makes games almost unplayable.

Cooler Fans: My Thermal Take cooler fans are working perfectly fine.

Monitor 2: Over the past 6 months, I've also had problems with a second monitor that I've had for over a decade. After a restart, the monitor would be turned off. It would show the light as orange (indicating that power is still supplied to it), but would not show that's on the screen (it would just be black). I could turn the monitor off and back on again, but it would generally be the same. I would have to hit the OSD menu button on the monitor and this would sometimes make the monitor function as normal. Another method that I used is to leave the monitor turned off for a period of time (maybe like 10-15m?) after a restart. Then I would turn the monitor back on again. Sometimes this would work, but the OSD seemed the most "reliable" method to fix it. No idea why. I bought a new power cord for the monitor, hooked it up, and it still has this problem. Like I said before, It's a very old monitor, but coupled with the other issues, I think it stems from some sort of PSU malfunction or maybe even the motherboard and not the monitor itself.

Troubleshooting: I have MSI Afterburner, and even after putting fans to 100% speed, the broken fans don't work.
I tried last night to uninstall my gfx drivers and then reinstall the latest update. I didn't think it would work, but I wanted to try it anyway. Didn't seem to change anything.
Funny enough, today I gave my ETS N30 fan a nudge and after about 2 minutes of trying, it spun very slowly at first, then started spinning at its normal speed for about 30-45mins, then it slowed down to a stop. This is the first time it's happened in a few months. I did the same to my Fan 1 on my GFX. It spun for about 5 seconds and then stopped. I did the same thing to my fan 2. I tried for about 5 minutes and only got a 1 second spin from it, then it stopped.
I've tried other methods over the past year, but I don't remember everything I've tried.

Because my ETS N30 won't also spin, I feel it's not a problem with the GFX card itself. And is either a problem with the motherboard or the PSU. I want to learn toward my PSU, as my motherboard is quite new. I bought it less than a year ago, when I upgraded my CPU to a 8700k. I believed I had problems with my GFX prior to purchasing my motherboard and CPU, but I'm really not entirely sure.

Additional Information: I haven't messed with any of the plugins or anything, so I don't think that any necessarily plugs are dislodged. My gfx card is in the top PCI-e slot. The 2x 6pins are a bit hot to the touch after turning off the computer, but I think that should be normal. If there's any other information that you need, just let me know.
----------------
TL;DR My ETS N30 Fan wont spin, both of my gfx card fans (2) won't spin, monitor is having issues turning on. my cooler fans work just fine.
 
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Yeah, age does that to fans and monitors.
Buy new fans and a new monitor.
 
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Yeah Amazon prices seem cheaper than eBay for the same thing.
They are easy to install, just follow a youtube vid if needed.
 
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Yeah, age does that to fans and monitors.
Buy new fans and a new monitor.
I would of thought heat build contributes to failure for fans, and monitors. The Samsung monitor I have there’s no ventilation on the top for heat to escape. The panel starts getting fairly warm to the touch, and the metal strip along the bottom.
 
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I would of thought heat build contributes to failure for fans, and monitors.

The Samsung monitor I have there’s no ventilation on the top for heat to escape.
Heat build-up contributes to the aging (and eventual failure) of all electronics. But all electronics, assuming proper design and construction, and they are in good repair, are designed to operate just fine in their normal operating ranges - which tends to be "warm", not "hot". And I note there is nothing to suggest that heat build-up rose to the level of "excessive" heat here - at least not for the monitor.

I have 8 Samsung monitors here (5 different models) and none have vents on the top of the screen. But in back, there sure are vents above where the main board sits. Samsung is not a fly-by-night brand. If more cooling was necessary, they would put it in their monitors. As long as you have not allowed the vents to get clogged with heat trapping dust, I would not worry about the monitor's heat.

Fans, of course, come with their own cooling. So as long as the bearings have not worn, heat build up in the fan is not an issue.

HOWEVER, I see no mention of case specs or case cooling. :( It is the case's responsibility to ensure there is a sufficient supply of cool air flowing through the case. And it is the user's responsibility to set up case cooling, to keep the internals clean of heat trapping dust, and to ensure the case has unhindered access to cool air. Since the Laws of Physics dictate that no fan alone can cool a non-living object cooler than the ambient (room) temperature, that is the temperature of the air the fan draws from, what are your ambient temps?

My point being, if your ambient temps are high, and/or you have inadequate case cooling, everything inside your case will be affect.

When playing games, my GFX would get extremely hot, sometimes causing a CTD. To prevent it from crashing, I opened the case.
Simply opening the case is not a good idea. Side panels play a major role in case cooling. They help "channel" the flow of cool air into an effective current of air through the case. They also help create a slight amount of over or positive air pressure which again is desired to promote a good flow of air through the case. When the side panel is removed, much of that flow simply escapes out into the room, essentially reducing the amount of cool air available to your heat sensitive devices.

If you need to remove the side panel, I would urge you to blast a desk fan into the open case.
 
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i would go with option 1 = how to fix....

ya can reuse it afterwards as case fans or other.
other option just fits into one
 
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Heat build-up contributes to the aging (and eventual failure) of all electronics. But all electronics, assuming proper design and construction, and they are in good repair, are designed to operate just fine in their normal operating ranges - which tends to be "warm", not "hot". And I note there is nothing to suggest that heat build-up rose to the level of "excessive" heat here - at least not for the monitor.

I have 8 Samsung monitors here (5 different models) and none have vents on the top of the screen. But in back, there sure are vents above where the main board sits. Samsung is not a fly-by-night brand. If more cooling was necessary, they would put it in their monitors. As long as you have not allowed the vents to get clogged with heat trapping dust, I would not worry about the monitor's heat.

Fans, of course, come with their own cooling. So as long as the bearings have not worn, heat build up in the fan is not an issue.

HOWEVER, I see no mention of case specs or case cooling. :( It is the case's responsibility to ensure there is a sufficient supply of cool air flowing through the case. And it is the user's responsibility to set up case cooling, to keep the internals clean of heat trapping dust, and to ensure the case has unhindered access to cool air. Since the Laws of Physics dictate that no fan alone can cool a non-living object cooler than the ambient (room) temperature, that is the temperature of the air the fan draws from, what are your ambient temps?

My point being, if your ambient temps are high, and/or you have inadequate case cooling, everything inside your case will be affect.

Simply opening the case is not a good idea. Side panels play a major role in case cooling. They help "channel" the flow of cool air into an effective current of air through the case. They also help create a slight amount of over or positive air pressure which again is desired to promote a good flow of air through the case. When the side panel is removed, much of that flow simply escapes out into the room, essentially reducing the amount of cool air available to your heat sensitive devices.

If you need to remove the side panel, I would urge you to blast a desk fan into the open case.
This — my first guess for that many fan failures would be dust buildup.
 

n_m

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I would of thought heat build contributes to failure for fans, and monitors. The Samsung monitor I have there’s no ventilation on the top for heat to escape. The panel starts getting fairly warm to the touch, and the metal strip along the bottom.
I really only got a cooler and started "investing" in better heat management after I had issues with my gfx card. So it's likely heat lead to a lot of damage or at least contributed a portion of the wear in the first place, rather than just age. Even when my fans were both spinning fine, I had only one fan (ETS N30). This is likely what led to my problem.

Yeah Amazon prices seem cheaper than eBay for the same thing.
They are easy to install, just follow a youtube vid if needed.
Alright, gotcha. Thanks for the help. If I were to buy and install the fans and this issue still seems to happen, do you have any other idea of what the issue may be?

HOWEVER, I see no mention of case specs or case cooling. :( It is the case's responsibility to ensure there is a sufficient supply of cool air flowing through the case. And it is the user's responsibility to set up case cooling, to keep the internals clean of heat trapping dust, and to ensure the case has unhindered access to cool air. Since the Laws of Physics dictate that no fan alone can cool a non-living object cooler than the ambient (room) temperature, that is the temperature of the air the fan draws from, what are your ambient temps?

My point being, if your ambient temps are high, and/or you have inadequate case cooling, everything inside your case will be affect.

Simply opening the case is not a good idea. Side panels play a major role in case cooling. They help "channel" the flow of cool air into an effective current of air through the case. They also help create a slight amount of over or positive air pressure which again is desired to promote a good flow of air through the case. When the side panel is removed, much of that flow simply escapes out into the room, essentially reducing the amount of cool air available to your heat sensitive devices.

If you need to remove the side panel, I would urge you to blast a desk fan into the open case.
You're absolutely right. The only reason why I leave it open is because I used to manually spin the fans to get them started. I would have to keep opening and closing the case in order to do this, and it became a hassle after I would restart. In retrospect, it's probably worth the hassle. I will do a test right now and see if it's any better.

Edit: In my test, there was no real appreciable change in temperature. Running WoW without a side panel ran around 91C. WoW with the side panel on was the exact same. So, I think there's just too much heat coming from the GFX to really make a difference in closing the case vs. opening the case, given my components.

I live in SoCal so humidity's not much of a factor and the temperatures in my room are fairly normal (~23-30C) because of my AC unit.

Unfortunately, my tower's on the desk next to everything. So, a desk fan might not be a very valuable option.

I'm not quite sure what my case is. It was some sort of DIY model. But here it is.
My tower:
20200920_133709.jpg

i would go with option 1 = how to fix....

ya can reuse it afterwards as case fans or other.
other option just fits into one
I purchased my second option, as a cheaper alternative. In the video, it said you could only control these fans in the BIOS (which I assume you can only get to by restarting). Considering the hassle of restarting for my particular situation, I felt like getting proprietary blades would have been much more efficient. I don't know if there's anyway to control the BIOS outside of restarting to BIOS. Can you use MSI Afterburner to control these things?

The fans were extremely loud in the video. I don't necessarily mind this if it fixes the issue with overheating. But my case is right next to my monitor.

But you make a good point. I'll definitely do that for next time.

This — my first guess for that many fan failures would be dust buildup.
To be perfectly honest, I feel that is the culprit, too. I have used compressed air of my gfx card and my other components ONLY after I have had these problems. I never took care of my computer like I should have, and I guess I asked for these problems. Pretty much since I've starting having problems, I have been using compressed air to minimize the amount of dust buildup every month or so.

Having said that, I haven't gone deep into removing the components and cleaning them out from the inside. I assume that the N30 may be having lubrication issues stemming from this. But I can't say the same for the GFX card. Maybe dust settled inside the fan component? Or maybe I just need to oil it up.

I don't entirely know if it makes sense that if I manually push the blade, it would start spinning and would keep spinning if there was indeed blockage and not an electrical malfunction (which gets to my original hypothesis that the PSU was the culprit). If it was a mechanical issue, where there was some sort of blockage from the blades spinning, then the blades wouldn't spin at all, right? They seemed to spin just fine until they stopped. Moreover, when the computer shuts down (or goes into sleep mode), and starts back up, it would cause the fans to stop spinning. All I used to do was to give them a nudge and, most of the time, they would start spinning. Although, I never tested their individual speed when they were working, so I don't know how efficient they actually were. I just know that, when they were spinning, I could play games normally at 1440p with no appreciable FPS drops. Coupled with the problems that I had around the same time as the N30 case fan, it seemed unreasonable to assert that they BOTH had issues at the same exact time because of dust buildup. But I'm an absolute newbie, so I'm not really certain on this.
 
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Alright, gotcha. Thanks for the help. If I were to buy and install the fans and this issue still seems to happen, do you have any other idea of what the issue may be?

The only reason why I leave it open is because I used to manually spin the fans to get them started.
Wear and tear over time as mentioned is the reason, the fact you manually had to start the fans is evidence of this.
 
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Wear and tear over time as mentioned is the reason, the fact you manually had to start the fans is evidence of this.
^^^THIS^^^

Assuming the fan is getting proper voltage, that is a classic sign of worn bearings and/or degraded lubrication. You need to replace those fans.
 

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dude the fan is simply broken why you spent so much time on its beyond me
these little motors do not make a lot of torq usually when they burn out they simply can no longer generate the power to overcome Inertia and get spinning
if the psu was bad you would have lots of other problems then one fan with a lazy motor winding or dry bearing

replace the fan, DUH
 
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Yes, it's weird that your GPU and CPU fan failed around the same time. Maybe you had a power surge or something, who knows.

The more important question is, why the hell haven't you done anything about it? Do you think they put fans on these things for show? You've quite possibly damaged your CPU and GPU with this idiocy.

Stop using your system and buy and fit replacement fans AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
 

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Yes, it's weird that your GPU and CPU fan failed around the same time. Maybe you had a power surge or something, who knows.

The more important question is, why the hell haven't you done anything about it? Do you think they put fans on these things for show? You've quite possibly damaged your CPU and GPU with this idiocy.

Stop using your system and buy and fit replacement fans AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
bit of a over reaction there the chance of hurting anything is pretty low on modern hardware things throttle when they get too hot
I agree hes spent a bit too long analyzing a not existent failure mode, while not considering the one that is likely which is AGE
 
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bit of a over reaction there the chance of hurting anything is pretty low on modern hardware things throttle when they get too hot
I agree hes spent a bit too long analyzing a not existent failure mode, while not considering the one that is likely which is AGE
It just boggles my mind though.

If this person broke their leg, would they wait for 2 years to go to the doctor?

If not, why wait 2 years to fix your PC?
 
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1. MSI Introduced the concept of passive cooling in GFX cards. The Gaming X and Lightning 980 Ti series were so quipped, not sure about the Armor.


.... the GTX 970 Gaming 4G features a semi-passive mode, which it calls Zero Frozr. It's something MSI first brought to the market in 2008 .... The temperature cut-off points are ....between 60 and 65°C, the fans will spin up; once the GPU drops to about 50°C, they're no longer needed. This carries benefits for noise production, efficiency and fan lifespan.

Another feature is called Hybrid Frozr, and this refers to the ability to control both fans independently. Enabling this functionality is a six-pin fan header on the PCB. In automatic mode, one fan is controlled by the GPU temperature while the other is controlled by temperature measurement ICs dotted around the PCB. MSI claims it can result in a 1.9dB(A) noise reduction, and also offers users the ability to control the two fans independently using its Gaming App.
Messing with this can cause problems. Chack to see if the 6 pin header is securely atatched and would suggest cleaining the pins on both connectors ... also check the wires ; I have seen fan blades clipping the wires which, when left long enough, can wear away the insulation causing shorts and even breaking the wire.

2. Back in the day, the dilemma was whether or not to invest in twice the cost for PWM fans and the potential for low speed hum / clicking versus the DCV fans which were harder to control at low speeds. The issue was a fan needs more energy to overcome inertia when it starts. PWM modulates a 12 signal bu turning it on and off and lengthening the off time to maintain slower speed ... but as it's always 12V (full power) when it's on, it can easily overcome that inertia. With DCV, you could spin a fan down to 20-25% and it would remain running with a low voltahe signal, but that signal was not powerful enough to overcome inertia and "kick start it" so to soeak. Today's DCV fand / control system have overcome that proble, by supplying a short burst of higher voltage at startup. I would check te voltage getting to the fans ... if it's fine, then mechanical damage is likely the case.

3. It's always worth giving your PSU a checkup and checking the voltage on all rails. We also unplug and clean all cable connectors every 2 years, especially if you live in a humid area w/ no AC. But I don't see the PSU affecting monitor performance. Your potentially failing GFX card yes.

4. I have seen the behavior you describe with 2nd monitor... again, check all cables. You are providing the card with two 8 pin PCi-E cables with no adapters ? Checked all pins in connectors to confirm none are loose and no "crud".

5. Did you establish a "baseline" of all voltages and temps when you 1st built the box ? We do this on every build ... so rather than a user having ti but out equipment of take things apart in the years following, they can just run HWiNFO and run the appropriate strees test to see if and/ or how things have changed. Remember if your case fans are failing, then your interior components can be negatively affected. Also how you orient your fans matters .... must have greater inflow than exhaust. Have to consider the applicable science here;

The Laws of Thermodynamics (Heat transfer) are much less at play here . Yes heat must transfer from CPU / CPU to heat sink and from heat sink to cooling air. But unless you have a poor mount, there is little you can to to change things.

1. You can change the temperature of ambient air with air conditioning
2. You can change the efficiency of your coolers with after market products
3. You can change the temperature of interior case air by altering the number of "air changed per minute" by increasing air flow. When you start your system, all parts of the system serve as a "thermal sink" ... heat transfer rates are proportional to Delta T, and that number will vary until you reach a steady state condition under constant load. The faster you move air thru the case, the more more volume of fresh cool air exists to transfer heat to. You are essentially using the Laws of Physics to create a condition which has a thermodynamic result.

The Laws of Physics apply to fluid and gaseous flow ... what goes out must come in somewhere. Intake fans have their flow hampered by the restriction of air filters, so all things being equal, you need more fans blowing in than out. If you do not, a negative pressure scenario will exist that will draw in makeup air thru case openings, most typically the large grilles and vented slot cover which is usually up against a wall. In the space between the case rear and wall will typically be preheated GPU and PSU exhaust air.

4. And now we are back to Thermodynamics again ... You can make sure your source of cooling air is of the lowest temperature available and make sure you aren't sucking hot exhaust air back into the case. Also check to see if your case location is not up against a wall with baseboard heating. Both problems go away if air is exiting out the rear of the case rather than coming in ... I stole my son's "garage band" $0 fog machine but you can find smoke in a can at hardware store... its used for smoke detector testing.

To test if you have interior case temp issues ... you can take off the side panel and use a desk fan ... I like the "Vornado" type fans for this purpose.

5. There should have been a MoBo Utilities Suite (Easy Tune / System Information Viewer if I recall correctly) on the DVD in the MoBo Box which includes fan control software (Smart Fan).


6. Replacement case / cooler fan choices .... scroll al the way way way way way to end :)

 
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