• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

GK104 Dynamic Clock Adjustment Detailed

Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
5,614 (1.90/day)
Likes
1,678
Location
San Diego, CA
System Name White Boy
Processor Core i7 3770k @4.6 Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe
Cooling CORSAIR H100
Memory CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB @ 2177
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 680 CLASSIEFIED @ 1250 Core
Storage 2 Samsung 830 256 GB (Raid 0) 1 Hitachi 4 TB
Display(s) 1 Dell 30U11 30"
Case BIT FENIX Prodigy
Audio Device(s) none
Power Supply SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W Modular
Software Windows Pro 7 64 bit || Ubuntu 64 Bit
Benchmark Scores 2017 Unigine Heaven :: P37239 3D Mark Vantage
#26
Good idea IMO, as long as it's implimented in an intelligent manner, and performs as well if not better than AMD, Nvidia has a winner on their hands IMO.
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
176 (0.08/day)
Likes
69
Location
South-Africa
Processor i5 4670k @ 4.2 Ghz
Motherboard MSi Z87 GD65 Gaming Motherboard
Cooling Zalman CNPS11 Extreme
Memory 16GB DDR3 Corsair Vengeance @ 2400Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX1070 FTW 8GB
Storage 250GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD
Display(s) Samsung Syncmaster SA950D
Case Corsair 750D Airflow Edition
Audio Device(s) ASUS Xonar D2X
Power Supply Corsair AX760 Platinum
Mouse Razer Mamba Chroma (2015)
Keyboard Razer Blackwidow Ultimate (2012)
Software Microsoft Windows 10 Enterprise 64-bit
#27
This is going to do more harm than good.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
3,121 (1.39/day)
Likes
892
Processor Ci7 5960X
Motherboard RVE
Cooling Triple Aquacomputer AMS 840 with D5
Memory Some random DDR4
Video Card(s) GTX 1080 Ti
Storage 960 EVO
Display(s) Dell U3011 2560x1600 + Dell 2408WFP 1200x1920 (Portrait)
Case Dimastech Bench EasyXL
Audio Device(s) Essence STX
Power Supply AX 1500i
Software Win10
#28
Good idea IMO, as long as it's implimented in an intelligent manner, and performs as well if not better than AMD, Nvidia has a winner on their hands IMO.
I agree, it's a good step in thermal management too :)
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
253 (0.07/day)
Likes
21
Location
Israel
System Name GG!
Processor Core i7 5820K 6 core
Motherboard Gigabyte X99 UD5 WIFI
Cooling Corsair H110 H2O
Memory Kingston HyperX 2400Mhz 16GB
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 980 Superclocked ACX2.0
Storage Samsung EVO 840 256GB + 1TB WD Black
Display(s) DELL 24ich IPS FullHD
Case Fractal R5
Audio Device(s) Onboard (Sounds Great)
Power Supply SeaSonic 850W Platinum
Mouse Razer Orochi
Keyboard Ducky Shine 4
Software Windows 10 Pro

jamsbong

New Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
83 (0.03/day)
Likes
7
System Name 2500Kjamsbong
Processor Core i5 2500K @ 4.6Ghz
Motherboard Asrock Extreme 4 Z68
Cooling Zalman Reserator (CPU and GPU)
Memory DDR3 8GB
Video Card(s) EVGA Nvidia 560Ti 1GB
Storage 60GB Kingston SSD
Display(s) 24" Dell IPS
Case CoolerMaster 690 Advanced II
Audio Device(s) on-board
Power Supply Zalman ZM-600HP modular 600watt
Software Windows 7
#30
dynamic clocking on GPU is not new. normally, the cards would have 2D at a low 300mhz and 700+Mhz for 3D. The "new" feature in Kepler is that it is able to go beyond the spec speed of 700+Mhz if the thermo-envelope permits it.

So if the situation is a very straight forward computation work and does not heat up the GPU at 700Mhz, it will overclock itself to say... 1000Mhz so that the task can be done more quickly while staying within the thermo-envelope.

Why not have it on previous GPU? I believe this type of thermo management requires additional hardware sensors built-in to monitor the GPU precisely and ensure that it does not get cooked. It can be done in software but the profile can't be as aggressive.

This is how Intel CPU works. I'm guessing that is how Kepler will work.
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
4,659 (1.32/day)
Likes
1,009
System Name Obelisc
Processor i7 3770k @ 4.8 GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z77-V
Cooling H110
Memory 16GB(4x4) @ 2400 MHz 9-11-11-31
Video Card(s) GTX 780 Ti
Storage 850 EVO 1TB, 2x 5TB Toshiba
Case T81
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Titanium HD
Power Supply EVGA 850 T2 80+ TITANIUM
Software Win10 64bit
#31
So if we force the fan faster or put on a better cooler it will stay on the high end?
 

NHKS

New Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
596 (0.26/day)
Likes
375
#32
To me the OC to 950 @ High load & downclock to 300MHz @ Low load seems to be nVidia's version of AMD's 'PowerTune' & 'Zero Core'(although Zerocore can bring down consumption to about 3W by turning off fan too).
Bringing down speed to 300MHz might compel us to doubt the efficiency & reliability at higher speeds but I believe it really is a power saving feature rather than a way to mitigate any of Kepler's problems.
Again, lets hope for a competitive Kepler series rather than a below par one! Its good for us consumers.
 
Last edited:

jamsbong

New Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
83 (0.03/day)
Likes
7
System Name 2500Kjamsbong
Processor Core i5 2500K @ 4.6Ghz
Motherboard Asrock Extreme 4 Z68
Cooling Zalman Reserator (CPU and GPU)
Memory DDR3 8GB
Video Card(s) EVGA Nvidia 560Ti 1GB
Storage 60GB Kingston SSD
Display(s) 24" Dell IPS
Case CoolerMaster 690 Advanced II
Audio Device(s) on-board
Power Supply Zalman ZM-600HP modular 600watt
Software Windows 7
#33
Not sure if Kepler will be exactly the same as Intel CPU. In the case of Intel CPU, you'll get less throttling if you have better cooling (assuming you've free-up your CPU via bios correctly).
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
46,106 (9.57/day)
Likes
13,535
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Daddy Long Legs
Processor Ryzen R7 1700, 3.9GHz 1.375v
Motherboard MSI X370 Gaming PRO carbon
Cooling Fractal Celsius S24 (Silent fans, meh pump)
Memory 16GB 2133 generic @ 2800
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS modded to Gaming Z - faster and solved black screen bugs!)
Storage 1TB Intel SSD Pro 6000p (60TB USB3 storage)
Display(s) Samsung 4K 40" HDTV (UA40KU6000WXXY) / 27" Qnix 2K 110Hz
Case Fractal Design R5. So much room, so quiet...
Audio Device(s) Pioneer VSX-519V + Yamaha YHT-270 / sennheiser HD595/518 + bob marley zion's
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G403 + KKmoon desk-sized mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptops: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB i7-2630QM + GT 540M + 8GB
#34
Don't ATi card's already have a "throttle" function? They run @ XXX clock's for desktop/2d/media then when gaming/rendering or 100% load they ramp up to full clock's?

Could you not merge this with the other thread about the same topic? Would be nice to have all the info in the same place :eek:
yeah, but ATI have four power states total (one being 'off' for secondary cards in crossfire, ULPS)


this adds dozens, so now they have more than just a 2D or 3D state - now a low demanding game with Vsync on or an FPS cap, it simply wont use the same amount of power, heat and noise.
 

NHKS

New Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
596 (0.26/day)
Likes
375
#35
Not sure if Kepler will be exactly the same as Intel CPU. In the case of Intel CPU, you'll get less throttling if you have better cooling (assuming you've free-up your CPU via bios correctly).
Logically, from a thermal envelope standpoint, there is bound to be more throttling of GPU OC because mid/high-end GPUs in general have higher 'TDP' than CPU and it has to be kept within limits.
Hence you cannot exactly match the OC characteristics/capability of CPU and GPU but only compare to an extent on the basis of computational load.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
10,399 (4.85/day)
Likes
5,480
Location
Concord, NH
System Name Kratos
Processor Intel Core i7 3930k @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Cooling Zalman CPNS9900MAX 130mm
Memory G.Skill DDR3-2133, 16gb (4x4gb) @ 9-11-10-28-108-1T 1.65v
Video Card(s) MSI AMD Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8GB @ PCI-E 3.0
Storage 2x120Gb SATA3 Corsair Force GT Raid-0, 4x1Tb RAID-5, 1x500GB
Display(s) 1x LG 27UD69P (4k), 2x Dell S2340M (1080p)
Case Antec 1200
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek® ALC898 8-Channel High Definition Audio
Power Supply Seasonic 1000-watt 80 PLUS Platinum
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Rosewill RK-9100
Software Ubuntu 17.10
Benchmark Scores Benchmarks aren't everything.
#36
yeah, but ATI have four power states total (one being 'off' for secondary cards in crossfire, ULPS)


this adds dozens, so now they have more than just a 2D or 3D state - now a low demanding game with Vsync on or an FPS cap, it simply wont use the same amount of power, heat and noise.
I just crossfired my 6870 and I noticed this. Pretty fancy feature. Like I said before, this all can be implemented at the driver level, this has nothing to do with changes to the architecture.
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
46,106 (9.57/day)
Likes
13,535
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Daddy Long Legs
Processor Ryzen R7 1700, 3.9GHz 1.375v
Motherboard MSI X370 Gaming PRO carbon
Cooling Fractal Celsius S24 (Silent fans, meh pump)
Memory 16GB 2133 generic @ 2800
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS modded to Gaming Z - faster and solved black screen bugs!)
Storage 1TB Intel SSD Pro 6000p (60TB USB3 storage)
Display(s) Samsung 4K 40" HDTV (UA40KU6000WXXY) / 27" Qnix 2K 110Hz
Case Fractal Design R5. So much room, so quiet...
Audio Device(s) Pioneer VSX-519V + Yamaha YHT-270 / sennheiser HD595/518 + bob marley zion's
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G403 + KKmoon desk-sized mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptops: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB i7-2630QM + GT 540M + 8GB
#37
I just crossfired my 6870 and I noticed this. Pretty fancy feature. Like I said before, this all can be implemented at the driver level, this has nothing to do with changes to the architecture.
well part of it has to be hardware, to have it able to support the states correctly in the first place.

the rest is on the firmware i guess, because each card behaves different much like CPU's, so the profiles must be set in the firmware on each card (and could be modified by the end user later)
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
10,399 (4.85/day)
Likes
5,480
Location
Concord, NH
System Name Kratos
Processor Intel Core i7 3930k @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Cooling Zalman CPNS9900MAX 130mm
Memory G.Skill DDR3-2133, 16gb (4x4gb) @ 9-11-10-28-108-1T 1.65v
Video Card(s) MSI AMD Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8GB @ PCI-E 3.0
Storage 2x120Gb SATA3 Corsair Force GT Raid-0, 4x1Tb RAID-5, 1x500GB
Display(s) 1x LG 27UD69P (4k), 2x Dell S2340M (1080p)
Case Antec 1200
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek® ALC898 8-Channel High Definition Audio
Power Supply Seasonic 1000-watt 80 PLUS Platinum
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Rosewill RK-9100
Software Ubuntu 17.10
Benchmark Scores Benchmarks aren't everything.
#38
well part of it has to be hardware, to have it able to support the states correctly in the first place.

the rest is on the firmware i guess, because each card behaves different much like CPU's, so the profiles must be set in the firmware on each card (and could be modified by the end user later)
A lot of video cards support altering voltage and clocks at the software level now. Yes, firmware changes would be required if the hardware manages this, but if the software is, the technology is already there via the I2C bus, as least on 6800 and 6900 series cards.
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
46,106 (9.57/day)
Likes
13,535
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Daddy Long Legs
Processor Ryzen R7 1700, 3.9GHz 1.375v
Motherboard MSI X370 Gaming PRO carbon
Cooling Fractal Celsius S24 (Silent fans, meh pump)
Memory 16GB 2133 generic @ 2800
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS modded to Gaming Z - faster and solved black screen bugs!)
Storage 1TB Intel SSD Pro 6000p (60TB USB3 storage)
Display(s) Samsung 4K 40" HDTV (UA40KU6000WXXY) / 27" Qnix 2K 110Hz
Case Fractal Design R5. So much room, so quiet...
Audio Device(s) Pioneer VSX-519V + Yamaha YHT-270 / sennheiser HD595/518 + bob marley zion's
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G403 + KKmoon desk-sized mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptops: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB i7-2630QM + GT 540M + 8GB
#39
A lot of video cards support altering voltage and clocks at the software level now. Yes, firmware changes would be required if the hardware manages this, but if the software is, the technology is already there via the I2C bus, as least on 6800 and 6900 series cards.

but they cant do it dynamically with so many increments.


this isnt off/2D/3D/OC, its going to have ten steps in between each of those.

lets say you fire up team fortress 2 and leave Vsync on: the card might only clock up to 30% of its total power to do so, and it will sit there, saving you power, heat, and noise.


so instead of running at 100% clocks and 30% load, it could now run at 30% clocks at 100% load, if that makes sense to you.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
10,399 (4.85/day)
Likes
5,480
Location
Concord, NH
System Name Kratos
Processor Intel Core i7 3930k @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Cooling Zalman CPNS9900MAX 130mm
Memory G.Skill DDR3-2133, 16gb (4x4gb) @ 9-11-10-28-108-1T 1.65v
Video Card(s) MSI AMD Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8GB @ PCI-E 3.0
Storage 2x120Gb SATA3 Corsair Force GT Raid-0, 4x1Tb RAID-5, 1x500GB
Display(s) 1x LG 27UD69P (4k), 2x Dell S2340M (1080p)
Case Antec 1200
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek® ALC898 8-Channel High Definition Audio
Power Supply Seasonic 1000-watt 80 PLUS Platinum
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Rosewill RK-9100
Software Ubuntu 17.10
Benchmark Scores Benchmarks aren't everything.
#40
but they cant do it dynamically with so many increments.


this isnt off/2D/3D/OC, its going to have ten steps in between each of those.

lets say you fire up team fortress 2 and leave Vsync on: the card might only clock up to 30% of its total power to do so, and it will sit there, saving you power, heat, and noise.


so instead of running at 100% clocks and 30% load, it could now run at 30% clocks at 100% load, if that makes sense to you.
Oh, I do understand, I'm just saying that software has direct control of voltages, core clocks, memory clocks, and gpu load. This can be done dynamically in software, that is my point. You don't need power "states" to dynamically adjust clocks and voltages, as long as you have access to the I2C bus. It's a matter of how well and how quickly it can be done because doing things on hardware will always be faster than software. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying it isn't necessary and what is needed is practically already there.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
9,946 (2.25/day)
Likes
2,309
System Name MoFo 2
Processor AMD PhenomII 1100T @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard Asus Crosshair IV
Cooling Swiftec 655 pump, Apogee GT,, MCR360mm Rad, 1/2 loop.
Memory 8GB DDR3-2133 @ 1900 8.9.9.24 1T
Video Card(s) HD7970 1250/1750
Storage Agility 3 SSD 6TB RAID 0 on RAID Card
Display(s) 46" 1080P Toshiba LCD
Case Rosewill R6A34-BK modded (thanks to MKmods)
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Power Supply 750W PC Power & Cooling modded (thanks to MKmods)
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
#41
How could Nvidia spin a high TDP that prevents their card from exceeding competition?

Simply lower clocks and introduce the clocks-performance level they were aiming for as a new "feature".


This is NOT like turbo, as that slows other unused cores down to maintain the same power envelope, it doesnt speed all cores up, what Intel and AMD call a overall faster chip is a new product name, not a feature.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
11,485 (3.96/day)
Likes
6,251
Location
Ohio
System Name Daily Driver
Processor 7900X 4.5GHz 10c/10t 1.15V.
Motherboard ASUS Prime X299 Deluxe
Cooling MCR320 + Kuplos Kryos NEXT CPU block
Memory GSkill Trident Z 4x8 GB DDR4 3600 MHz CL16
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 FTW3
Storage 512GB Patriot Hellfire, 512GB OCZ RD400, 640GB Caviar Black, 2TB Caviar Green
Display(s) Yamakasi 27" 2560x1440 IPS
Case Thermaltake P5
Power Supply EVGA 750W Supernova G2
Benchmark Scores Faster than most of you! Bet on it! :)
#42
I do not understand the purpose of this. The way it is presented suggests to me that nVidia had another Fermi on their hands, and the card cannot handle high clocks all the time without having issues. This seems the opposite of power saving to me, as lowering the clocks under lower load would lead to higher GPU utilization, which just doesn't make sense.


It's like if they let the card run high FPS, it can pull too much current? I mean, there's no point in running 300 FPS in Unreal or Quake 4, and in these apps, a slower GPU would still give reasonable framerates when downclocked. So they are saving power by limiting FPS?

I HAZ CONFUUZ!!!
Correct me if I am wrong here, but wouldnt 300Mhz @ .8v use less power than 850Mhz @ 1.1v? It still takes 1.1v at 850Mhz regardless of % load, no? I do not know enough about this stuff.

Im just as confused, however, seeing yet another news bit, the TDP is 195W, substantially lower than the 7970, and faster?

PHK got the first benchmark numbers in for 3DMark11 confirmed GTX 680 will be faster than Radeon HD 7970.

680-> X3200~3300
(7970)-> X2700~2800
670Ti -> X2500~2600
(7950) -> X2200~2300

PHK also mentioned that GTX 680 has max TDP 195W and fan will have low noise.
It was also mentioned/rumored that the turbo is only 7% of stock clocks. I mean, that nets you maybe a couple FPS, usually not the difference between playable and not, ya know? Im leaning on the side of pointless myself.
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
16,546 (3.88/day)
Likes
10,908
Location
Parkland County, Alberta
System Name Gamer
Processor Intel i7-6700K (ES)
Motherboard MSI Aegis TI
Cooling Custom Dragon Cooler
Memory 16 GB Kingston HyperX 2133 MHz C13
Video Card(s) 2x MSI GAMING GTX 980
Storage 2x Intel 600P
Display(s) Dell 3008WFP
Case MSI Aegis Ti
Mouse MSI Interceptor DS B1
Keyboard MSI DS4200 GAMING Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Home
#43
Correct me if I am wrong here, but wouldnt 300Mhz @ .8v use less power than 850Mhz @ 1.1v? It still takes 1.1v at 850Mhz regardless of % load, no? I do not know enough about this stuff.
I was thinknig that runnign 500FPS in quake 3 would pull more power, potentially, than the 120FPS or so amx that any monitor can display. So it makes sense to limited teh Gup speed to lower power cunsumption in that instance.

But to increase speed while under full load? Why not just have that full power available when needed, and just worry about the lower-load scenarios?

Admittedly I know probably less than you do, as GPUs really aren't my thing, so I was serious in that I am confused about this, and need more info, or a different way to explain why they are doing it this way.

And if anything, this relates to TSMC having issues...AMD and Nv seemingly have just chosen to deal with it differently. We know that the current 7-series cards have HUGE OC potential...to me it doesn't make sense that they didn't release those cards @ 1000 MHz and let the OEMs have 1100-1125 for OC editions...

I'm not saying what nV is doing is wrong, but that it's weird, and curious, and I'd like to know more.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
10,399 (4.85/day)
Likes
5,480
Location
Concord, NH
System Name Kratos
Processor Intel Core i7 3930k @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Cooling Zalman CPNS9900MAX 130mm
Memory G.Skill DDR3-2133, 16gb (4x4gb) @ 9-11-10-28-108-1T 1.65v
Video Card(s) MSI AMD Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8GB @ PCI-E 3.0
Storage 2x120Gb SATA3 Corsair Force GT Raid-0, 4x1Tb RAID-5, 1x500GB
Display(s) 1x LG 27UD69P (4k), 2x Dell S2340M (1080p)
Case Antec 1200
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek® ALC898 8-Channel High Definition Audio
Power Supply Seasonic 1000-watt 80 PLUS Platinum
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Rosewill RK-9100
Software Ubuntu 17.10
Benchmark Scores Benchmarks aren't everything.
#44
I was thinknig that runnign 500FPS in quake 3 would pull more power, potentially, than the 120FPS or so amx that any monitor can display. So it makes sense to limited teh Gup speed to lower power cunsumption in that instance.

But to increase speed while under full load? Why not just have that full power available when needed, and just worry about the lower-load scenarios?

Admittedly I know probably less than you do, as GPUs really aren't my thing, so I was serious in that I am confused about this, and need more info, or a different way to explain why they are doing it this way.

And if anything, this relates to TSMC having issues...AMD and Nv seemingly have just chosen to deal with it differently. We know that the current 7-series cards have HUGE OC potential...to me it doesn't make sense that they didn't release those cards @ 1000 MHz and let the OEMs have 1100-1125 for OC editions...

I'm not saying what nV is doing is wrong, but that it's weird, and curious, and I'd like to know more.
I think AMD is clocking their hardware just enough to keep it that much over nVidia's current line-up. It would make sense, even more so with the power consumption of the 7900-series GPUs at stock speeds.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,286 (0.93/day)
Likes
528
Location
Burlington, VT
Processor Intel i5-2500k
Motherboard MSI P67A-GD65
Cooling Deep Cool Gammax 400
Memory 8GB (4x2GB) G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3-1600
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1060 Windforce OC 6GB
Storage Samsung EVO 850 256GB / WD Caviar Black 1TB
Display(s) Acer GD235HZbid 120hz LCD
Case Rosewill Challenger Mid-Tower
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair 650W 650-TX
Software Windows 10
#45
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
9,946 (2.25/day)
Likes
2,309
System Name MoFo 2
Processor AMD PhenomII 1100T @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard Asus Crosshair IV
Cooling Swiftec 655 pump, Apogee GT,, MCR360mm Rad, 1/2 loop.
Memory 8GB DDR3-2133 @ 1900 8.9.9.24 1T
Video Card(s) HD7970 1250/1750
Storage Agility 3 SSD 6TB RAID 0 on RAID Card
Display(s) 46" 1080P Toshiba LCD
Case Rosewill R6A34-BK modded (thanks to MKmods)
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Power Supply 750W PC Power & Cooling modded (thanks to MKmods)
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
#46
I was thinknig that runnign 500FPS in quake 3 would pull more power, potentially, than the 120FPS or so amx that any monitor can display. So it makes sense to limited teh Gup speed to lower power cunsumption in that instance.

But to increase speed while under full load? Why not just have that full power available when needed, and just worry about the lower-load scenarios?

Admittedly I know probably less than you do, as GPUs really aren't my thing, so I was serious in that I am confused about this, and need more info, or a different way to explain why they are doing it this way.

And if anything, this relates to TSMC having issues...AMD and Nv seemingly have just chosen to deal with it differently. We know that the current 7-series cards have HUGE OC potential...to me it doesn't make sense that they didn't release those cards @ 1000 MHz and let the OEMs have 1100-1125 for OC editions...

I'm not saying what nV is doing is wrong, but that it's weird, and curious, and I'd like to know more.
More than likely the early adoption to new process helped AMD as it did ATI in many cases, 5770 anyone, and the extra things like more power interconnects per layer making a larger chip overall means more stable power delivery and thus the ability to run lower overall voltage, and gain a larger yield from the chips produced.

Nvidia has historically failed to allow for much manufacturing error, meaning a substantially lower yield on new processes, and clock/heat issues resulting from it.


If you have a voltage drop of .2v in the core and you have a targeted speed of 1Ghz at 1.2vcore, you then have to run 1.4vcore to achieve your target numbers, but at a hugely increased thermal load. I am guessing this is Nvidias problem with this chip, but also why they have been able to beat AMD/ATI in performance per mm. How many threads about dead 8800's do we have due to heat issues? Lower the voltage and heat output and your competitive advantage dies when your clocks fall, and your yields suffer.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
10,399 (4.85/day)
Likes
5,480
Location
Concord, NH
System Name Kratos
Processor Intel Core i7 3930k @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Cooling Zalman CPNS9900MAX 130mm
Memory G.Skill DDR3-2133, 16gb (4x4gb) @ 9-11-10-28-108-1T 1.65v
Video Card(s) MSI AMD Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8GB @ PCI-E 3.0
Storage 2x120Gb SATA3 Corsair Force GT Raid-0, 4x1Tb RAID-5, 1x500GB
Display(s) 1x LG 27UD69P (4k), 2x Dell S2340M (1080p)
Case Antec 1200
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek® ALC898 8-Channel High Definition Audio
Power Supply Seasonic 1000-watt 80 PLUS Platinum
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Rosewill RK-9100
Software Ubuntu 17.10
Benchmark Scores Benchmarks aren't everything.
#47
More than likely the early adoption to new process helped AMD as it did ATI in many cases, 5770 anyone, and the extra things like more power interconnects per layer making a larger chip overall means more stable power delivery and thus the ability to run lower overall voltage, and gain a larger yield from the chips produced.

Nvidia has historically failed to allow for much manufacturing error, meaning a substantially lower yield on new processes, and clock/heat issues resulting from it.


If you have a voltage drop of .2v in the core and you have a targeted speed of 1Ghz at 1.2vcore, you then have to run 1.4vcore to achieve your target numbers, but at a hugely increased thermal load. I am guessing this is Nvidias problem with this chip, but also why they have been able to beat AMD/ATI in performance per mm. How many threads about dead 8800's do we have due to heat issues? Lower the voltage and heat output and your competitive advantage dies when your clocks fall, and your yields suffer.
Touchè, friend. You post has been one of the most sensible I've read in a while. nVidia cards to seem to have a lot of heat issues. I've never had an ATi/AMD video card fail on me, but I have lost a GeForce 7900 GT to the jaws of death (vram death, that is). For the power that AMD chips use, they're efficient and the run well and even AMD's Llano chips are proof how you can run power usage low enough and still get a reasonable amount of performance out of an APU. You don't cram more shaders on your GPU by using more power. You make them more efficient and smaller and then you cram more of them on, so when you do overclock, a little extra goes a long way.

With this all said though, I think Kepler is going to be screaming fast, but how much more does your electricity bill have to be to gain that performance and is it worth using your computer as a mini-space heater?
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,286 (0.93/day)
Likes
528
Location
Burlington, VT
Processor Intel i5-2500k
Motherboard MSI P67A-GD65
Cooling Deep Cool Gammax 400
Memory 8GB (4x2GB) G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3-1600
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1060 Windforce OC 6GB
Storage Samsung EVO 850 256GB / WD Caviar Black 1TB
Display(s) Acer GD235HZbid 120hz LCD
Case Rosewill Challenger Mid-Tower
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair 650W 650-TX
Software Windows 10
#48
The rumors have said it will use substantially less power, and withe the Dynamic Clocks it could be even less than that. I think there should be little doubt that a GTX680 will be faster than an HD7970, but the real issue is cost, power consumption, and noise. Nvidia has everything to gain by sticking to their guns and selling this is a mid-range GPU. Their sales would skyrocket. But knowing how American Economics work (See: Crazy) it will probably be priced competatively and sold for a little more than the HD7970.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
9,946 (2.25/day)
Likes
2,309
System Name MoFo 2
Processor AMD PhenomII 1100T @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard Asus Crosshair IV
Cooling Swiftec 655 pump, Apogee GT,, MCR360mm Rad, 1/2 loop.
Memory 8GB DDR3-2133 @ 1900 8.9.9.24 1T
Video Card(s) HD7970 1250/1750
Storage Agility 3 SSD 6TB RAID 0 on RAID Card
Display(s) 46" 1080P Toshiba LCD
Case Rosewill R6A34-BK modded (thanks to MKmods)
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Power Supply 750W PC Power & Cooling modded (thanks to MKmods)
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
#49
Everything so far except that in a heavily NV game it is only 10% faster and has the same power plus, a smaller die, as large of a cooler, and a new "feature" that has yet to be proven beneficial, is logs in the toilet.
If it were so much cooler they would have used a single slot cooler.
If it was so much faster they would be shouting it from the roof.
If it were available........but its not.

So here we are. Speculation about a feature that mah help fix a problem no one had or cared about, or just some media spin from marketing to generate some green fog in our brains.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
10,399 (4.85/day)
Likes
5,480
Location
Concord, NH
System Name Kratos
Processor Intel Core i7 3930k @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Cooling Zalman CPNS9900MAX 130mm
Memory G.Skill DDR3-2133, 16gb (4x4gb) @ 9-11-10-28-108-1T 1.65v
Video Card(s) MSI AMD Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8GB @ PCI-E 3.0
Storage 2x120Gb SATA3 Corsair Force GT Raid-0, 4x1Tb RAID-5, 1x500GB
Display(s) 1x LG 27UD69P (4k), 2x Dell S2340M (1080p)
Case Antec 1200
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek® ALC898 8-Channel High Definition Audio
Power Supply Seasonic 1000-watt 80 PLUS Platinum
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Rosewill RK-9100
Software Ubuntu 17.10
Benchmark Scores Benchmarks aren't everything.
#50
Everything so far except that in a heavily NV game it is only 10% faster and has the same power plus, a smaller die, as large of a cooler, and a new "feature" that has yet to be proven beneficial, is logs in the toilet.
If it were so much cooler they would have used a single slot cooler.
If it was so much faster they would be shouting it from the roof.
If it were available........but its not.

So here we are. Speculation about a feature that mah help fix a problem no one had or cared about, or just some media spin from marketing to generate some green fog in our brains.
Hopefully we will find out later this month.