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God of War Gets FSR 2.0 Support in Latest Patch

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They're popping up quick, must be fairly easy to implement when going from 1.0 to 2.0
Its 3 days of work if DLSS 2.0 is present.
 
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What a fantastic game .... one of the few that got me addicted enough to want to play it start to finish in a short period of time ... and it's nice to see they're constantly updating it with patches too for minor improvements.
 
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They're popping up quick, must be fairly easy to implement when going from 1.0 to 2.0
FSR 1.0 is easy to implement because it have barely no pre-requirements. It's a spacial upscaler and all the information it need are in the frame. FSR 2.0 need more information from previous frame, movement vector etc.. Same things a DLSS. Technically. All game running DLSS 2.x could implement easily FSR 2.0. And the opposite is also true. i dont care if both are are there as long as FSR 2.0 is there for the masses. We will see about XeSS
1. DLSS SDK is completely free to use and NVIDIA provides extensive support for it.
2. DLSS uses AI image upscaling, so it can be used in situations when FSR 2.0 doesn't work, e.g. in more performant modes.
3. DLSS will always be faster than competing technologies as it uses specialized fixed-function hardware.

Intel's XeSS looks like a real competitor to DLSS but the company has yet to release it. If XeSS proves to be as good and as versatile as DLSS, this is what the industry could settle on, not FSR.

As for me personally, I'm looking forward to someone creating an API which encompasses FSR 2, DLS and XeSS, so, instead of implementing all three, developers could use this library instead as they all work very similarly.

DLSS need tensor cores to run. I am not sure if another vendor could implement some that would run DLSS. Pretty sure it's not possible. Also DLSS use AI but do not use it to create new pixel. only to select what pixel to import from previous frame. DLSS do not have a fallback to run unlike XeSS that can fallback to DP4a if XMX is not present. They probably could if they wanted.

As for DLSS being always faster, it depend on GPU architecture, there could be scenario where the compute units required to run it become unused. But overall yes you are probably right.

The thing is the tensor cores are useless when there is no DLSS load. IF you increase the performance of a GPU architecture to improve FSR 2.0, it improve the overall performance since you add more compute units that can be used for more things than just upscaling. On Nvidia side, it's not really the case.

Same thing with the way AMD choose to do Ray Tracing, they are using compute units and texture units. The downside is when raytracing is used there is a drop of performance, the upside is if they increase theses units, they get more performance when it's not used.

I shame Nvidia for making DLSS proprietary with no fallback (and no plan to change that) but i also know that if AMD had 80% market share, they would probably do the same thing.
 
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Hopefully it'll push nVidia to stop their stupidity and allow DLSS to be run on more hardware just like gsync now. Plus it would give them more silicon to work with when they stop wasting it on tensor cores.
 
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Wasn't that tessellation?
Automatic Tessellation. If i recall the implementation, it was rounding low poly form by adding polygon. it wasn't really smart and sometime leaded to strange bugs. The thing is it was not simple to implement and it wasn't really pretty.

When thing were working correctly
1654094960245.png

When things were not working correctly
1654094985434.png



But work on this was used later for true tessellation implementation.
 
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Automatic Tessellation. If i recall the implementation, it was rounding low poly form by adding polygon. it wasn't really smart and sometime leaded to strange bugs. The thing is it was not simple to implement and it wasn't really pretty.
Thanks for that retrospective. I had a Radeon 8500 and 9700 pro, but I don't remember using it at all. The things we did for polygons. :D
 
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Thanks for that retrospective. I had a Radeon 8500 and 9700 pro, but I don't remember using it at all. The things we did for polygons. :D
I remember using it on my 9700 Pro but it was only supported on a few games.
 
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They're popping up quick, must be fairly easy to implement when going from 1.0 to 2.0
It's not. They are not the same. The reason you get FSR2, it is because there is DLS. They both need motion vectors that are not needed for FSR1.
 

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In the AGP days it wasn't even AMD, it was ATi wasn't it?

Yeah, but Vulkan is available for everyone too.
AMD Bought ATI so they own all ATi properties

There were several PRs saying how 1.0 api was a very easy implement, no reason 2.0 would be any different.


I believe DLSS is a software API, where as Gsync has the hardware requirement. I'm likely wrong, unless there is something that states DLSS cannot work without having Gsync.
DLSS requires tensor cores iirc

Thanks for that retrospective. I had a Radeon 8500 and 9700 pro, but I don't remember using it at all. The things we did for polygons. :D
I just Remember Running NFSU 1&2 on the 9700 pro maxed detail and Res that it outshined the XB/PS2 and those consoles were fx 5200 range of graphics.
 

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Naturally, it's constantly brought up in response to any criticism that its open and that's the killer feature etc, yes I don't disagree. But I'm not convinced FSR will actually be the long lasting tech here either, at least not in its current form, there are too many IQ drawbacks and too high a frametime cost on current hardware. From my perspective 'good enough' here isn't really good enough to just drop DLSS, go all in on FSR and call it a day.

Will DLSS be the premier reconstruction / Upscaling technique in 20 years? Probably not, but I doubt it will be FSR either. We're still in the very early days of this whole branch of tech, so there's a lot to look forward to, including DLSS and FSR coexisting for years to come, pushing each other to ever better heights both iq and performance wise, and everyone stands to benefit far more from that outcome, despite what can be discribed as a sort of hatred of dlss and wishing it to die because it's a closed nvidia tech, the people that want that to happen are literally wishing themselves out of better reconstruction.
 
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Naturally, it's constantly brought up in response to any criticism that its open and that's the killer feature etc, yes I don't disagree. But I'm not convinced FSR will actually be the long lasting tech here either, at least not in its current form, there are too many IQ drawbacks and too high a frametime cost on current hardware. From my perspective 'good enough' here isn't really good enough to just drop DLSS, go all in on FSR and call it a day.
Considering your disagreement, I must say and that is a doozy, FSR 2.0 works with anything. Literally any card you put in your computer. You have extremely broad range of graphics you can choose from. DLSS is better no doubt but it is not extremely better. The image quality is similar and FSR can improve so as DLSS to be exact. You have to prioritize among support, accessibility, features, image quality etc. All those matter and you can't say DLSS has better image quality thus it will be the main focus for devs. DLSS is very good but can the scale lean towards DLSS just because it has a bit better image quality and few frames more in some cases but it cannot be used broadly on wide range of devices? I will skip even implementation but proprietary software is not for everyone. If AMD gets more market share (everything suggests it will happening) FSR will be the better option as a main focus. Not saying DLSS will be gone because it will not probably. Just like Gsync is not gone but honestly, how many GSYNC module exclusive monitors is there now vs some time back when GSYNC was the only one there with the quality and of course premium price? It is better than adaptive but is it the main focus now? Exclusive, just like DLSS.
What is also very important which you have missed to consider. The more products can use a feature the more support for it and faster development. You may say DLSS has better support and more games support and it is true. what about acceleration with which these are being implemented and used? How about consoles? These are gaming devices and DLSS and FSR can improve things here as well right? Which one of these two will be the main focus? (Not even main but only one focus). How is porting games from PC to Consoles and vice versa coming on nowadays? What is the market of consoles vs PC? Now tell me which aspect is more important here, accessibility or image quality? How great image quality of a feature must have been so that accessibility would not matter?
another example. IOS vs Android. Look at the market share of these two going back few years and tell me what do you think. I can say IOS is still there. 72% vs 27%. go figure.

We don't know what will happen in 20 years but most people focus on near future. 1-2 years from now or so. No one says DLSS wont be there. Like you say these 2 rendering techniques might coexist but the main focus will not be DLSS in my opinion. I have already explained my point of view, why.
 

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You have to prioritize among support, accessibility, features, image quality etc. All those matter and you can't say DLSS has better image quality thus it will be the main focus for devs. DLSS is very good but can the scale lean towards DLSS just because it has a bit better image quality and few frames more in some cases but it cannot be used broadly on wide range of devices? I will skip even implementation but proprietary software is not for everyone.
Considering they are so similar, and that Nvidia is themselves making it easier to implement all similarly working reconstruction (FSR, XeSS and DLSS) all at once (streamline), I don't think this will be the barrier people assume (and often hope) that it is. More below.
If AMD gets more market share (everything suggests it will happening) FSR will be the better option as a main focus.
Maybe, and again I am absolutely not saying DLSS will be, but we are discounting any other options from entering the market, better universal options that aren't vendor locked or even vendor labelled. And even if it was, it still is extremely easy at that point to also add DLSS for the PC market.
What is also very important which you have missed to consider. The more products can use a feature the more support for it and faster development. You may say DLSS has better support and more games support and it is true. what about acceleration with which these are being implemented and used? How about consoles? These are gaming devices and DLSS and FSR can improve things here as well right? Which one of these two will be the main focus? (Not even main but only one focus). How is porting games from PC to Consoles and vice versa coming on nowadays? What is the market of consoles vs PC? Now tell me which aspect is more important here, accessibility or image quality? How great image quality of a feature must have been so that accessibility would not matter?
People do like to talk a lot about market shares and such, but there are also multiple ways to consider that, as well as the ease of cross-implementation as mentioned above. Sure, AMD has consoles fairly cornered, and are quite possibly on the upswing as far as Desktop GFX card market share goes, but Nvidia still have a massive PC market share, a presently continuous circa 80% sales share of modern cards too, it's been about 4 years now that 4/5ths of PC GFX cards sold have RTX capability.

Naturally, you look at something like steam + all consoles in existence and it's easy to say Nvidia don't have majority share there so why imp? it's still the vast majority of the current market for AAA PC gaming and multiple millions of people who would want DLSS too, or at least benefit from it's inclusion relative to the ease to implement, and given the majority of the work needed for either is the same/similar/aided by streamline, I would wager on both for a while. Accessibility counts for a tonne, more than IQ even sure, but when another, superior option exists and the barrier to entry is extremely low, assuming one or the other gets implemented, the minimal amount of extra work does still make sense for game developers. We're not talking about months of work here, when one is in it's days tops. Perhaps we are actually mildly agreed on this point.
No one says DLSS wont be there.
Oh I could certainly show you people banking on it's death inside 1-2 years, some spurred on by a article title used on this very site.

my 2c are, I expect FSR to continue to gain ground on DLSS, both IQ wise, performance penalty wise, and adoption wise, in the short to mid term, and yet-unseen options to evolve or enter the market as lasting universal techniques that become what you could consider de-facto reconstruction. This could be FSR, but I don't think it will be FSR 2.0 - perhaps a later, better revision, I don't have a crystal ball, as it seems so many people do given the certainty they talk with. Such is the way innovation works, your average consumer cannot innovate, they just demand more, better faster - but we don't know what we don't know. I absolutely do not see dev's thinking, well FSR is kinda close, 'good enough' even, and despite doing the majority of the work, lets skip adding DLSS too. This seems to be where I disagree most with people - whether they argue from the mind of from the heart. Nvidia creating streamline to make it easy to add them all is very telling, they will actively develop and provide the tools to keep DLSS in the game for now.

Maybe we agree a little, but disagree a lot too, and I'm not sure what's left to be said to each other on this topic.
 
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Considering they are so similar, and that Nvidia is themselves making it easier to implement all similarly working reconstruction (FSR, XeSS and DLSS) all at once (streamline), I don't think this will be the barrier people assume (and often hope) that it is. More below.
Accessibility before ease of implementation. What is to implement if 50% of users can't use it due to hardware restrictions. You tailor only to 50% and that means another 50% will go somewhere else or skip the product entirely. Speaking about devs and games which want to gain popularity and sell the damn game to get profit. Not to mention, I think you are a RT pro so FSR and DLSS is a must if you want to play these games. Another aspect is top end graphics which are insanely expensive and still the performance leaves a lot to desire. This means FSR and DLSS is a must and yet DLSS is hardware limited. Also lower tier games can benefit from it and thus it gives more option to a consumer. Only thing is, this feature has to work on everything so that you have a chance to choose what you want.
Maybe, and again I am absolutely not saying DLSS will be, but we are discounting any other options from entering the market, better universal options that aren't vendor locked or even vendor labelled. And even if it was, it still is extremely easy at that point to also add DLSS for the PC market.
If you consider console and PC market, AMD has already larger market share in these both (or is very close) segments which benefit from DLSS and FSR. DLSS is vendor labelled and you can't use it freely.
People do like to talk a lot about market shares and such, but there are also multiple ways to consider that, as well as the ease of cross-implementation as mentioned above. Sure, AMD has consoles fairly cornered, and are quite possibly on the upswing as far as Desktop GFX card market share goes, but Nvidia still have a massive PC market share, a presently continuous circa 80% sales share of modern cards too, it's been about 4 years now that 4/5ths of PC GFX cards sold have RTX capability.

Naturally, you look at something like steam + all consoles in existence and it's easy to say Nvidia don't have majority share there so why imp? it's still the vast majority of the current market for AAA PC gaming and multiple millions of people who would want DLSS too, or at least benefit from it's inclusion relative to the ease to implement, and given the majority of the work needed for either is the same/similar/aided by streamline, I would wager on both for a while. Accessibility counts for a tonne, more than IQ even sure, but when another, superior option exists and the barrier to entry is extremely low, assuming one or the other gets implemented, the minimal amount of extra work does still make sense for game developers. We're not talking about months of work here, when one is in it's days tops. Perhaps we are actually mildly agreed on this point.
NV has a massive PC market but as I already told you, their features are proprietary in a market they don't have monopoly. It looks like NV want's to be seen as a better brand a premium brand that not everyone can get because it is only for people with deep pockets. market share is not for saying today NV has better market share which means DLSS will win but you look over the trends and changing landscape that can tell you what can happen.
If you say AMD's FSR will be the main focus for devs it has a merit.
broader range of customers.
another segment of gaming consoles and even android phones.
What can you say about DLSS? It has a better image quality as a merit which will be the factor for devs to use it as a main rendering technique?
It is blocked only to certain hardware and only to the brand new expensive products.
limited to PC market only leaving 100 of million of consumers out of it.
These are the largest factors either people like it or not.
Oh I could certainly show you people banking on it's death inside 1-2 years, some spurred on by a article title used on this very site.

my 2c are, I expect FSR to continue to gain ground on DLSS, both IQ wise, performance penalty wise, and adoption wise, in the short to mid term, and yet-unseen options to evolve or enter the market as lasting universal techniques that become what you could consider de-facto reconstruction. This could be FSR, but I don't think it will be FSR 2.0 - perhaps a later, better revision, I don't have a crystal ball, as it seems so many people do given the certainty they talk with. I absolutely do not see dev's thinking, well FSR is kinda close, 'good enough' even, and despite doing the majority of the work, lets skip adding DLSS too. This seems to be where I disagree most with people - whether they argue from the mind of from the heart. Nvidia creating streamline to make it easy to add them all is very telling, they will actively develop and provide the tools to keep DLSS in the game for now.
Well yes some people say DLSS will be gone. If that happens, it would a shame since it is good. Maybe they do not consider an exclusive feature as something major. Like Tesla. It is there but there are so many electric cars out there, that makes Tesla look like a wimp and becomes and expensive and exclusive product.
Both DLSS and FSR will be improving with time and I hope they will. For me, FSR has the chance to become something more than just an option among others but rather main focus. Everything points to this and if you are a RT enthusiast you do understand the need for DLSS and FSR to be there. I'm not saying FSR 2.0 will be the main focus but I'm sure FSR's derivative will be either 3.0 or 4.0 it doesn't matter at this point and I can't say since like you, I don't have a crystal ball but this one has a chance of becoming global rendering technique standard.
With the 'good enough' and devs, you already know what I think about it. DEVs don't chose a feature to implement basing only on one factor like Image quality. You, as a consumer, can choose, DLSS with NV or FSR with everything. DLSS will be there but maybe at some point in the near future, you will see that the FSR comes first and DLSS follows. When that happens, You will know the time has come for devs to lean towards one thing better. As of today, these two techniques are presenting themselves, show what they can do and where they stack in terms of value.
It is devs job to do it and both AMD and NVidia want the publicity.
Imagine this. How long DLSS is present and how long FSR is present? Which one has developed faster over them lifespan?
I'm just giving hints. For me this is the logical outcome if those typed of feature are really needed in the future, considering all aspects that really are to be considered here.
Maybe we agree a little, but disagree a lot too, and I'm not sure what's left to be said to eachother on this topic.
To each other maybe nothing but others can benefit from our point of views. Sharing thought, discussing opinions, showing point of views is what makes as humans, this shows maturity and differentiate us from animals.
 

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Accessibility .................. snip .................... animals.
I think this is very much what I ended on last time, we are just rehashing our opinions now, saying the same thing again but with more gusto perhaps.

And again, I agree on some, disagree on others, and only time will tell how this all shakes out over coming years.
 
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