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GPU question

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#1
Hello, I've been waiting to upgrade my CPU (mb and RAM too, obviously) for some time now. I even made a post here not too long ago, I was currently waiting to see Zen+ performance to make a decision. However, there was a pre-built PC on offer from 10pm to 10am yesterday, and I thought it was a good deal, I didn't have much time to think and got it (I have 30 days to return it if needed anyway). Its a Medion Microstar PCC499-M55 P6401 D, Ryzen 5 1600, 1TB HDD, 8GB RAM (probably the slowest ones since it isn't specified), and a RX 480 8GB, with some case and PSU. Price was 449€. (was it a good deal or did I made a mistake?). I'm planning on re-using my case (if the new mb fits), psu, SSD and HDD, and probably can mount a home server or something with the spare parts in the future.

I have to wait for it to be shipped but I though about selling one of the GPUs (either the GTX 1060 6GB or the RX 480), so I can cover about half the price of what I paid (I think, I would appreciate an estimation), sell the 2500K, mb and 16GB of RAM too (got an offer of 160€ a couple of days ago, not sure if it's good or not), and get the new rig going for the next 2-3 years at least (upgrade ram when the prices get lowered) for a little investment.

Now, I think the GTX 1060 is better, especially because I have an overclocked version. But I think RX480 is not that far off, has two more GB of VRAM and in the past, they have aged better than Nvidia. What do you guys think? I tried watching some reviews and it seems Nvidia comes on top especially in DX11, but I got valuable help in this forum in the past so I thought I could ask for your opinion.

Regards.
 

eidairaman1

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#2
Hello, I've been waiting to upgrade my CPU (mb and RAM too, obviously) for some time now. I even made a post here not too long ago, I was currently waiting to see Zen+ performance to make a decision. However, there was a pre-built PC on offer from 10pm to 10am yesterday, and I thought it was a good deal, I didn't have much time to think and got it (I have 30 days to return it if needed anyway). Its a Medion Microstar PCC499-M55 P6401 D, Ryzen 5 1600, 1TB HDD, 8GB RAM (probably the slowest ones since it isn't specified), and a RX 480 8GB, with some case and PSU. Price was 449€. (was it a good deal or did I made a mistake?). I'm planning on re-using my case (if the new mb fits), psu, SSD and HDD, and probably can mount a home server or something with the spare parts in the future.

I have to wait for it to be shipped but I though about selling one of the GPUs (either the GTX 1060 6GB or the RX 480), so I can cover about half the price of what I paid (I think, I would appreciate an estimation), sell the 2500K, mb and 16GB of RAM too (got an offer of 160€ a couple of days ago, not sure if it's good or not), and get the new rig going for the next 2-3 years at least (upgrade ram when the prices get lowered) for a little investment.

Now, I think the GTX 1060 is better, especially because I have an overclocked version. But I think RX480 is not that far off, has two more GB of VRAM and in the past, they have aged better than Nvidia. What do you guys think? I tried watching some reviews and it seems Nvidia comes on top especially in DX11, but I got valuable help in this forum in the past so I thought I could ask for your opinion.

Regards.
1060 performance is right around a 4-5 year old card, the R9 290.
 
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#3
The 1060 has it all over the 480....while performance is close, the 1060 has it in every other category. As you can see here, it outperfoms the 390x, the Fury and the 980 outta the box.



And since it overclocks an additional 15.1%... it's able to pass the Fury X which can only be overlocked about 6% ... here's the "canned S"cpeil" on the 1060 vs 480 (badse dupon TPUs published data).

Again ... overall the 1060 gets the win but the correct choice for you will ultimately depend on what games you play. What we know:

1. Which one - Not all cards are created equal but this is especially true with the RX 480. Techpowerup writes:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/28.html

In my opinion, this is thus far the only RX 480 that looks like it can compete with the GTX 1060 and its custom designs.
2. Out of the Box performance - So let's compare two cards from the same (MSI) manufacturer and model line (Gaming X). From above link:

As a result, the card is 4% faster than the RX 480 reference and 6-7% slower than the [reference] GeForce GTX 980, GTX 1060, and Radeon R9 Fury, which all have roughly the same performance at 1080p.


3. AIB Cards - From the above, we see that the MSI RX 480 is 7% faster overall in TPUs 16 game test suite. From Below, the MSI 1060 Gaming X is 3% faster than the reference 1060 ... so we can can conclude that at the time of testing the MSI 1060 was 10% faster than the MSI 480 in the 16 game test suite

4. Overclocking - We see there that the MSI 480 overclocks 8.6% and the MSI 1060 overclocks 15.1%.. So when the 1060 (10% performance advantage) is overclocked, the relative difference would be:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/26.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Gaming_X/27.html

110% x (115.1 / 108.6) = 116.6% of the 480s speed or 16.6 % faster

As for difference between brands ... the various brands trade wins depending on generation and model line but the EVGA SC is one to avoid as, unlike the competition, they use a reference PCB and referece style PCB cooling.

5. Driver improvements - AMDs driver improvements have improved the performance of the 480 since originally tested. As we can see from the link here, TPU tested the results from the latest driver improvements and found an increase if 2.1% at 1080 p average across 21 games:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_Crimson_ReLive_Drivers/6.html

Unfortunately, we have no info on what improvements have resulted from newer nVidia drivers but suffice to say, those improvements have not erased that 10% gap outta the box (16.6% in both overclocked.

6. Cost - Last I looked (yesterday) the MSI 1060 6GB was about $15 more than the MSI 480 8GB on newegg. But there are other costs worth considering

7. Power - There is a significant difference in power usage between the two cards. One of the reasons for the MSI 480s performance,as stated in the review, is because it is able to use more power than many other 480s. That's 75 watts in typical gaming and 99 watts peak

The MSI 480 draws from 196 - 224 watts
The MSI 1060 draws from 121 - 125 watts

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/21.html

8. Power Costs - While this is something you normally wouldn't consider, when cards are very close in performance, it may be of significance to many users, especially those in Europe and especially in urban / suburban locales.

75 watts x 35 hours per week x 52.14 weeks per year x 3 years usage x $0.131 US average electric cost per kw-hr / (1000 watts per kw=hr x 85% efficiency) = $63.28

9. Case Cooling - The rule of thump for case fans in a relatively quiet system is one (1) case fan per 75 watts for power. So for comparable interior case temps, you might want to include the cost of an extra case fan.

10. Noise - The 480 is 3 dbA louder than the 1060

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/22.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Gaming_X/23.html

So ... that's the data ... it's up to you to look at what you want to do with it ...

- If you don't use MSI Afterburner, then the OC advantage may be of no interest to you
- If you wear headphones, then the noise advantage will be of no interest to you
- Initially the 480 has an apparent cost advantage but the larger PSU requirement and extra case fan eats that up. Considering power costs along with the preceding, the 1060 is the more cost effective buy by far
- If you already have an oversized PSU then the power advantage is of no interest to you
- If you don't pay for electricity cause it's included in rent, then the power advantage is of no interest to you
- But most of all, if those 16 - 21 games that TPU uses for testing are not ones you play, then you need to pay specific attention to how each performs in games you do play... so start here and see how each performs in the games you are interested in.


https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/6.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Gaming_X/6.html

How each individual arrives at their choice will be different for everyone, there is no "wrong choice" here.
 
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#4
The 1060 has it all over the 480....while performance is close, the 1060 has it in every other category. As you can see here, it outperfoms the 390x, the Fury and the 980 outta the box.



And since it overclocks an additional 15.1%... it's able to pass the Fury X which can only be overlocked about 6% ... here's the "canned S"cpeil" on the 1060 vs 480 (badse dupon TPUs published data).

Again ... overall the 1060 gets the win but the correct choice for you will ultimately depend on what games you play. What we know:

1. Which one - Not all cards are created equal but this is especially true with the RX 480. Techpowerup writes:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/28.html



2. Out of the Box performance - So let's compare two cards from the same (MSI) manufacturer and model line (Gaming X). From above link:





3. AIB Cards - From the above, we see that the MSI RX 480 is 7% faster overall in TPUs 16 game test suite. From Below, the MSI 1060 Gaming X is 3% faster than the reference 1060 ... so we can can conclude that at the time of testing the MSI 1060 was 10% faster than the MSI 480 in the 16 game test suite

4. Overclocking - We see there that the MSI 480 overclocks 8.6% and the MSI 1060 overclocks 15.1%.. So when the 1060 (10% performance advantage) is overclocked, the relative difference would be:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/26.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Gaming_X/27.html

110% x (115.1 / 108.6) = 116.6% of the 480s speed or 16.6 % faster

As for difference between brands ... the various brands trade wins depending on generation and model line but the EVGA SC is one to avoid as, unlike the competition, they use a reference PCB and referece style PCB cooling.

5. Driver improvements - AMDs driver improvements have improved the performance of the 480 since originally tested. As we can see from the link here, TPU tested the results from the latest driver improvements and found an increase if 2.1% at 1080 p average across 21 games:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_Crimson_ReLive_Drivers/6.html

Unfortunately, we have no info on what improvements have resulted from newer nVidia drivers but suffice to say, those improvements have not erased that 10% gap outta the box (16.6% in both overclocked.

6. Cost - Last I looked (yesterday) the MSI 1060 6GB was about $15 more than the MSI 480 8GB on newegg. But there are other costs worth considering

7. Power - There is a significant difference in power usage between the two cards. One of the reasons for the MSI 480s performance,as stated in the review, is because it is able to use more power than many other 480s. That's 75 watts in typical gaming and 99 watts peak

The MSI 480 draws from 196 - 224 watts
The MSI 1060 draws from 121 - 125 watts

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/21.html

8. Power Costs - While this is something you normally wouldn't consider, when cards are very close in performance, it may be of significance to many users, especially those in Europe and especially in urban / suburban locales.

75 watts x 35 hours per week x 52.14 weeks per year x 3 years usage x $0.131 US average electric cost per kw-hr / (1000 watts per kw=hr x 85% efficiency) = $63.28

9. Case Cooling - The rule of thump for case fans in a relatively quiet system is one (1) case fan per 75 watts for power. So for comparable interior case temps, you might want to include the cost of an extra case fan.

10. Noise - The 480 is 3 dbA louder than the 1060

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/22.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Gaming_X/23.html

So ... that's the data ... it's up to you to look at what you want to do with it ...

- If you don't use MSI Afterburner, then the OC advantage may be of no interest to you
- If you wear headphones, then the noise advantage will be of no interest to you
- Initially the 480 has an apparent cost advantage but the larger PSU requirement and extra case fan eats that up. Considering power costs along with the preceding, the 1060 is the more cost effective buy by far
- If you already have an oversized PSU then the power advantage is of no interest to you
- If you don't pay for electricity cause it's included in rent, then the power advantage is of no interest to you
- But most of all, if those 16 - 21 games that TPU uses for testing are not ones you play, then you need to pay specific attention to how each performs in games you do play... so start here and see how each performs in the games you are interested in.


https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/RX_480_Gaming_X/6.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Gaming_X/6.html

How each individual arrives at their choice will be different for everyone, there is no "wrong choice" here.
Thank you for such a long and explained answer. I think the RX480 included is a reference design, so, limited overclocking and higher temps. I bought extended warranty (to five years) for the GTX 1060 when I got it (six months ago), so this is another thing going in favour to the 1060. With all you put here I think it's clear that I should go with my current card, the 1060, and try to sell the RX480. I took a look in a local used parts market and they go from 275€ to 3xx€ (miners?), so since mine would be a reference design, I think I should be able to sell it for about 200€, maybe a little bit more but not much. Which isn't too bad, lets say I get 200€ and 160€ for the 1155 build, and the upgrade would cost me 90€, in which I also got an extra HDD, case, psu...
 

eidairaman1

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#5
Thank you for such a long and explained answer. I think the RX480 included is a reference design, so, limited overclocking and higher temps. I bought extended warranty (to five years) for the GTX 1060 when I got it (six months ago), so this is another thing going in favour to the 1060. With all you put here I think it's clear that I should go with my current card, the 1060, and try to sell the RX480. I took a look in a local used parts market and they go from 275€ to 3xx€ (miners?), so since mine would be a reference design, I think I should be able to sell it for about 200€, maybe a little bit more but not much. Which isn't too bad, lets say I get 200€ and 160€ for the 1155 build, and the upgrade would cost me 90€, in which I also got an extra HDD, case, psu...
Hey before you offer that card to anyone else offer it to @CAPSLOCKSTUCK for a fair price, with the mining craze it's screwing the gamers. He is in the UK too.
 
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#6
Thank you for such a long and explained answer. I think the RX480 included is a reference design, so, limited overclocking and higher temps. I bought extended warranty (to five years) for the GTX 1060 when I got it (six months ago), so this is another thing going in favour to the 1060. With all you put here I think it's clear that I should go with my current card, the 1060, and try to sell the RX480. I took a look in a local used parts market and they go from 275€ to 3xx€ (miners?), so since mine would be a reference design, I think I should be able to sell it for about 200€, maybe a little bit more but not much. Which isn't too bad, lets say I get 200€ and 160€ for the 1155 build, and the upgrade would cost me 90€, in which I also got an extra HDD, case, psu...
Yes the 480 in the graph was a reference design ... every other card in the comparison is ... but., as was clearly stated ... all the numerical comparisons where based upon the MSI 480 Gaming X versus the MSI 1060 Gaming X. Should also keep in mind that the EVGA SC should be compared with the reference card as EVGA uses a standard reference PCB in their SC lines. Either way ... reference against reference or AIB vs AIB, the distinction holds.
 
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#7
Hey before you offer that card to anyone else offer it to @CAPSLOCKSTUCK for a fair price, with the mining craze it's screwing the gamers. He is in the UK too.
The shipping may be a little bit high though (I'm from Spain). But if he's interested, I don't have a problem.


Yes the 480 in the graph was a reference design ... every other card in the comparison is ... but., as was clearly stated ... all the numerical comparisons where based upon the MSI 480 Gaming X versus the MSI 1060 Gaming X. Should also keep in mind that the EVGA SC should be compared with the reference card as EVGA uses a standard reference PCB in their SC lines. Either way ... reference against reference or AIB vs AIB, the distinction holds.
I received the pc this morning; you weren't that far off with the 10% difference. Left test is the new one, right one my i5 2500K at 4.4ghz with the 1060. I'm still running stability tests and checking everything works fine (i think that if I open the case, the warranty is void, I'll ask the store tomorrow, it seems weird, what if I have a SSD I want to add? I'm not supposed to do it?), so I want to be sure there's no problems. I have a feeling Medion replaced the original AMD cooler and put a worse one there (with a tube) so that's certainly improveable, the bios looks ancient (is one of the blue ones without mouse) although from what I saw in Google, it seems they release bios updates from time to time, so it does not look too bad. Anyway I'm kinda lost in there, I have basicly avoided every part where a 'danger' message appeared, don't wanna touch anything until I know more about it.
 

eidairaman1

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#8
The shipping may be a little bit high though (I'm from Spain). But if he's interested, I don't have a problem.




I received the pc this morning; you weren't that far off with the 10% difference. Left test is the new one, right one my i5 2500K at 4.4ghz with the 1060. I'm still running stability tests and checking everything works fine (i think that if I open the case, the warranty is void, I'll ask the store tomorrow, it seems weird, what if I have a SSD I want to add? I'm not supposed to do it?), so I want to be sure there's no problems. I have a feeling Medion replaced the original AMD cooler and put a worse one there (with a tube) so that's certainly improveable, the bios looks ancient (is one of the blue ones without mouse) although from what I saw in Google, it seems they release bios updates from time to time, so it does not look too bad. Anyway I'm kinda lost in there, I have basicly avoided every part where a 'danger' message appeared, don't wanna touch anything until I know more about it.
See if you and @CAPSLOCKSTUCK can make a deal, you and him certainly are closer in distance than he and I are lol
 
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#9
@CAPSLOCKSTUCK Send me a message around May and I will send a card to you for the price of shipping only (from USA). There is a chance that I won't have them come May so don't count on it.

To OP, on a side note, I am not sure that PC is such a great deal unless you couldn't have picked up parts for cheaper or the parts in the prebuilt are actually of any quality.
 
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#10
@CAPSLOCKSTUCK Send me a message around May and I will send a card to you for the price of shipping only (from USA). There is a chance that I won't have them come May so don't count on it.

To OP, on a side note, I am not sure that PC is such a great deal unless you couldn't have picked up parts for cheaper or the parts in the prebuilt are actually of any quality.
The parts alone would have cost me: €164 for the CPU, €80 motherboard, €80 8GB DDR4, so between 320 and 330 euro. Taking into account I sell my 2500K build for the offer I had, €160, so the upgrade would have been 320/330-160= 160/170€

I picked this pc for 449€. In my country a GTX 1060 now is about 350€ (I bought mine 6 months ago for 279€), I think a reference 8GB RX480 can be sold at about... €200? Do you think it's a bad price? I actually don't have a clue, it is just an estimation. Selling the old build: 449-200-160= 89€. I gambled with the motherboard and the RAM memory to save about 70/80€, and as an extra I get a new 1TB HDD, case and PSU (although the quality is unknown with the PSU, I think it's a FSP, I'll find out if/when I open the case). As of right now I have a cheap tv box Amlogic 905 with libreelec as home server for plex, torrenting with a pretty slow 100mb port and an external USB 2.0 hdd. I always wanted something like a 10w TDP J3355 for a home server, but I never actually got it because I didn't want to spend too much with the case/psu, so that was also a reason to pick this deal, I can re-use the case (it's pretty small) and PSU, not now but in the future I may finally get it.

I don't know, in my head it made sense at the time it was a limited time offer so I had to make a decision fast. If not I have a 30day return option. There was also another deal with a i7 6700, 16Gb of RAM, GTX 1070, 1x256 SSD and 1xHDD at 674€, but it was sold out in like ten minutes.
 
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#11
1060 6GB or RX480 8GB , they are all the same more or less. Don't waste your time counting the single digit % differences between the two in a million games.
 
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#12
1060 6GB or RX480 8GB , they are all the same more or less. Don't waste your time counting the single digit % differences between the two in a million games.
10-15% performance gaps are not single digits, that's half a GPU tier.
 
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System Name SMUT
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#13
Plus the heat output and power demands of the RX480 are not great and exceed that of the 1060. Any benchmark will show the 1060 to be the greater performing card. Double digit performance gap agreed for sure.
 
Joined
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#14
Plus the heat output and power demands of the RX480 are not great and exceed that of the 1060. Any benchmark will show the 1060 to be the greater performing card. Double digit performance gap agreed for sure.
A throttling reference 480, sure. :) If you want to look at the performance of a decent custom RX 480 look at RX 580 results.