GTX 1080Ti Power management Modes are stupid and broken

[the54thvoid]

I reduced FX in PUBG and the FPS went skyward. I've never seen that sort of activity on clocks on my 1080ti. But the cap will stop it boosting, that's what happens, how else is a GFX chip meant to maintain fps without dropping clocks to keep it under a certain fps limit? Car analogy (oh dear god) - If I set my distance traveled at 1 mile per minute, my car will run at 60mph, even though it can do double that.

Try running FRAPS, see what it tells you. If it's your subjective feeling, perhaps it could be an investigation by @W1zzard to see if fixed fps caps have an effect on latency spikes?

 

[RejZoR]

I might try one more thing, uncapping the framerate. Fast V-Sync does limit frame output to the monitor, but doesn't prevent it from computing them (they just get dropped). Meaning GPU should churn out as many frames as it can, but only 144 will be actually rendered per monitor sync.

 

[qubit]

I might try one more thing, uncapping the framerate. Fast V-Sync does limit frame output to the monitor, but doesn't prevent it from computing them (they just get dropped). Meaning GPU should churn out as many frames as it can, but only 144 will be actually rendered per monitor sync.

You're still not gonna try the adaptive/max performance setting change I suggested to try out, are you? <sigh> It can be critical for issues like this so you're just shooting yourself in the foot by being so stubborn for no good reason.

 

[newtekie1]

I might try one more thing, uncapping the framerate. Fast V-Sync does limit frame output to the monitor, but doesn't prevent it from computing them (they just get dropped). Meaning GPU should churn out as many frames as it can, but only 144 will be actually rendered per monitor sync.

Yep, putting a framerate cap in the game renders Fast V-Sync useless.

 

[RejZoR]

@qubit
I can't while I'm at work...

@newtekie1
Not quite. If you just limit framerate you'll still get the tearing. With Fast V-Sync, you'll never get the tearing as every image is synced to the screen refresh so it always hits entire frame into single refresh scan. When you just limit framerate, each frame can still be rendered to the screen at wrong time, causing a horrible tear.

 

[newtekie1]

@newtekie1
Not quite. If you just limit framerate you'll still get the tearing. With Fast V-Sync, you'll never get the tearing as every image is synced to the screen refresh so it always hits entire frame into single refresh scan. When you just limit framerate, each frame can still be rendered to the screen at wrong time, causing a horrible tear.

Yes, but it renders Fast V-Sync useless, which is what I said. If you limit the framerate in the game and enable Fast V-Sync, you are effectively just using regular V-Sync. You have entirely removed the benefit that Fast V-Sync provides or normal V-Sync.

 

[RejZoR]

Not really. They work together. If you just limit the framerate, you'll still be getting tearing. If you just use Fast V-Sync, the GPU will still actually render I don't know, 350fps, but will then drop everything past 144fps. By limiting framerate to 144fps and using Fast V-Sync you're effectively getting best of both worlds. I don't like V-Sync because it always induces input lag even with high framerate and I just avoid it entirely.

 

[qubit]

@qubit
I can't while I'm at work...

Yes you can! Yes you can!

But seriously, I wait with baited breath for you to get home and try it. I remember in my 780 Ti days I played UT2004 single player at a solid 144fps vsync locked. So fast and fluid with just a bit of lag. Awesome. Then, one day I updated the driver and the system started dropping frames a fair bit, with the annoying stutters you get with that. Investigating the problem, it turned out to be that adaptive/max performance setting. Setting it to max solved the problem completely. That was the first time I properly understood the difference between these two settings.

 

[RejZoR]

Optimal Power = Based on thermal/consumption/load metrics
Adaptive = Max clock only in 3D apps
Maximum performance = Always max clock in 2D and 3D

That's how it was, don't know if they changed any of it given that Adaptive and Optimal seems to behave identically which is weird.

 

[Sasqui]

Not really. They work together. If you just limit the framerate, you'll still be getting tearing. If you just use Fast V-Sync, the GPU will still actually render I don't know, 350fps, but will then drop everything past 144fps. By limiting framerate to 144fps and using Fast V-Sync you're effectively getting best of both worlds. I don't like V-Sync because it always induces input lag even with high framerate and I just avoid it entirely.

Have you tested games or benchmarks other than Quake Champions? Perhaps it's the game itself?

 

[RejZoR]

I think it's the frame limiting thing. Most games don't even have it. I'll try uncapping it entirely...

 

[newtekie1]

Not really. They work together. If you just limit the framerate, you'll still be getting tearing. If you just use Fast V-Sync, the GPU will still actually render I don't know, 350fps, but will then drop everything past 144fps. By limiting framerate to 144fps and using Fast V-Sync you're effectively getting best of both worlds. I don't like V-Sync because it always induces input lag even with high framerate and I just avoid it entirely.

Again, the entire benefit of Fast V-Sync is that it renders as many frames a possible to eliminate input lag, but syncs 144 of those frames to the 144Hz of the monitor to eliminate tearing. If you limit the framerate to 144fps in the game, then you are eliminating the benefit the Fast V-Sync is supposed to provide. Fast V-Sync is doing nothing if you are limiting the framerate to 144fps in the game.

If you want the best of both worlds, limit the framerate to something significantly higher than your refresh rate, like 288 with Fast V-Sync enabled. That will give you a significant reduction in input lag while not allowing the fps to skyrocket unnecessarily.

I also wouldn't be surprised if having Fast V-Sync and a 144fps limit is what is causing the game to feel like it is running like crap. The game is rendering 144fps, so the frame counter will display that, but Fast V-Sync is dropping frames that are too far out of sync and not displaying them on the monitor. Fast V-Sync kind of relies on a framerate quite a bit higher than the refresh rate to work properly.

 

[mobiuus]

Optimal Power = Based on thermal/consumption/load metrics
Adaptive = Max clock only in 3D apps
Maximum performance = Always max clock in 2D and 3D

That's how it was, don't know if they changed any of it given that Adaptive and Optimal seems to behave identically which is weird.

yes thats why u make a specific profile just for that game to use max clocks so that u dont have max clock in desktop/other games too...

 

[Vayra86]

I might try one more thing, uncapping the framerate. Fast V-Sync does limit frame output to the monitor, but doesn't prevent it from computing them (they just get dropped). Meaning GPU should churn out as many frames as it can, but only 144 will be actually rendered per monitor sync.

Bingo! was that really worth the rant? And isnt this all common sense?

 

[bug]

Not really. They work together. If you just limit the framerate, you'll still be getting tearing. If you just use Fast V-Sync, the GPU will still actually render I don't know, 350fps, but will then drop everything past 144fps. By limiting framerate to 144fps and using Fast V-Sync you're effectively getting best of both worlds. I don't like V-Sync because it always induces input lag even with high framerate and I just avoid it entirely.

FastSync works only when frames can be rendered faster than they're being displayed. If you tell the game engine to not render faster than the refresh rate, there are no additional frames available for fastSync to display.

 

[Vayra86]

You can try Fast Sync with an FPS cap though but the cap must be a significant number above monitor refresh and in many games this method will result in the occasional stutter, while being silky smooth and responsive everywhere else. This is related to the way Fast Sync retains frames.

Also, Fast Sync really is NOT comparable to Vsync in any way and it will not tear even when below monitor refresh - it will then use the last frame instead, which manifests as a microstutter!

Take a look here and dont put your own spin on it to break these methods this time, because that seems to be a theme with your Nvidia "woes" here....

https://www.blurbusters.com/howto-low-lag-vsync-on/

I can highly recommend using the 'just below monitor refresh' FPS cap method combined with Fast Sync. It seems to be a real hack to get best of worlds performance. (The limit denominator edit is annoying though because if you change the FPS cap in rivatuner you need to edit the file again or you get silly numbers.)

 

[RejZoR]

Ok, to recap this, the reason was framerate limiter. I never thought of it because other games don't even have it in such way. And I didn't quite expect it to affect the clocks in such way either.

After uncapping the framerate, the clocks ramped up to 1950MHz and while it's a lot hotter and louder now, the gameplay is buttery smooth as well. Capped at 144fps it felt horrible despite being 144fps at all times. Go figure.

 

[kastriot]

So in the end it was your ignorance and stupidity and not nvidia's fault

 

[RejZoR]

No, it's still NVIDIA's stupidity for most part. If I set it to Max performance it should run at full clock no matter what. Instead it insisted on some stupid low clock. If I want 1950MHz at 144fps I should be allowed to do so.

 

[newtekie1]

No, it's still NVIDIA's stupidity for most part. If I set it to Max performance it should run at full clock no matter what. Instead it insisted on some stupid low clock. If I want 1950MHz at 144fps I should be allowed to do so.

No, if you limit the performance it is not nVidia's fault or stupid that the card doesn't unnecessarily run at full speed wasting power for no reason. That's actually incredibly smart.

Just because you fail at understanding how something works doesn't mean that something is stupid.

 

[basco]

did ya try evga K-Boost?

that was much too late sorry

 

[Vayra86]

No, it's still NVIDIA's stupidity for most part. If I set it to Max performance it should run at full clock no matter what. Instead it insisted on some stupid low clock. If I want 1950MHz at 144fps I should be allowed to do so.

We have been here before man, its your own stubborn point of view that is the cause of your issues. Open your mind a bit before opening such a topic and the obvious solutions shall appear before you. You are smart enough for that, surely

 

[phanbuey]

you can always reflash the card to have an idle and full perf power state.

 

[Vayra86]

you can always reflash the card to have an idle and full perf power state.

Inb4 bricked card and another rant

 

[phanbuey]

Inb4 bricked card and another rant

It's really not rocket science, you just modify your own bios to run at p0 except for idle. (copy over p0 values to other states).

You dont even have to flash you can use nvidia inspector to set the values and just click a shortcut whenever you;'re going to play said problematic game.


Ive had this issue with Brutal Legend and ended up just made a "everything is p0" profile through nvidia inspector.