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Hardware Elitism - a tech scourge that needs to die.

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Toothless

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I think the worst comes out when it's either people bricking cards by flashing for dumb/no reasons or people "confidently incorrect" on things.

If you know what you're doing, know the risks, and have everything triple checked when flashing, then cool, go for it. But I'd you're trying to flash a 3080 vbios on a 3070 because "moar fps" and have no clue about it, then yeah you're gonna get a stern talking to.

Then there's people that won't listen to anyone and are spreading misinformation that can be dangerous to people new to the world of tech. That stuff isn't right.
 
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I got harassed on another website because as a 3090 owner i'm just a richboy using dads wallet who doesnt appreciate hardware

Did the harasser post with an Austrian accent?

 
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As a Tech Report refugee, to speak candidly, I've been frequently amazed at how much ad hominem was permitted on this forum.

I guess I'm sort of an old guy at this point, but way too many people post stuff that might be permitted on social media, but should totally require mod action in a moderated forum. So if your post is a shot across the bow that this forum will have increased moderation, I'm all for it.

Just my two cents about some very disturbing recent trends. As a mod. If I see it happening, I'll just start handing out infractions left, right and centre.
 

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I got harassed on another website because as a 3090 owner i'm just a richboy using dads wallet who doesnt appreciate hardware


nevermind that i'm approaching 40 and worked for it -.-

People just suck overall, be it attacking people with less than them, defending bad products just because they bought them too, or echoing something with zero understanding of what it really means (bottleneck! CPU matters less at high res so game at 4k on a sempron!)

They were probably just jealous.
 

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I may be annoyed when I receive some PCs that are definitely lower end (speaking of DDR2, single core and dual core CPUs, etc..), it can generally be a pain to work with. It's mostly friends or collegues asking 'can you make this run Word?', but then I do realize that is what's available and affordable for some people, and then I end up doing my best with testing a few more operating systems to increase overall speed of the system, or minimal upgrades such as cheaper SSDs or RAM.
As far as topic goes, karma is a bitch, you know.
 
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Hmmm, could have sworn I posted this yesterday. Were some posts removed? :confused:

Just reading up on the difference between an elitist and a snob. It seems the elite are indeed members of a group that is of a higher class - as in better quality, higher intellect, wealthier, more educated and/or skilled. The elite can be objects too. For example, a Rolls Royce, Rolex watch, or a McIntosh audio amplifier would be considered elite. While a snob is a person who takes [often great] efforts to make sure everyone knows (or believes) the snob is a member of some elite group!

I got harassed...
Not sure harassed is the right word but I have been accused of not being a computer enthusiast on several occasions for all sorts of reasons that make no sense to me. For example, because I am not a hard-core gamer, I can't be a computer enthusiast. Or because my CPU is not a "K" model. Or because I don't over-clock or because I cool with air instead of liquid. Most recently it was because I stated I'm not into RGB lighting. Never mind the fact I've been into computers since the early 70s when I literally stood inside a NORAD mainframe consisting of more than 67,000 vacuum tube diodes. Or when I started overclocking, it involved cutting motherboard traces and soldering in jumpers. But then that's when 32KB of RAM was "more than you will ever need!" Oh well.

I've always been amazed at how much ad hominem was permitted on this forum.
^^^THIS^^^ Too often, it seems, if you post a different opinion or position, it is seen as a personal attack or disparagement instead of simply debating the facts or posing a different viewpoint.

Part of the problem, I believe, is forum posts don't allow readers to see the facial expressions and body language, or hear the tone-of-voice of the writer. These are critical elements of communication used all the time in face-to-face conversations that ensure the message sent is the message received. In forum posts, unless clearly stated, the message received can easily be misinterpreted. For example, unless the writer clearly states a sarcastic comment is meant as a joke with a ;) ;) or a "LOL", it could easily be misinterpreted as an affront.

Leading me to this:
When I was staff, I was reminded I could wear two hats. My member hat and my staff hat.

I think clarification which this is coming from would be nice, but I still agree with the premise.
No clarification needed. It was a member post. I'm still a member. But when I see things that are unfair, I have the capacity to hand out infractions. That being said, I know the general difference between 'banter' and offence, i.e. we're still allowed to be PCMasterRace (are we not?). It's tongue in cheek. Many PC's are lesser than a console.

I also don't want my post to be taken as anything other than a member post.
RTB is right.

You are absolutely right that you are a member too, and certainly are entitled to post as such. The problem is, you are wearing the Moderator/Staff Member badge. So unless you take that badge off, or at least state that you are speaking as a member, you are representing the site, and speaking as a member of the site.

It does not matter that in your mind, you know you are speaking as a member. But we don't know that and can only go by what you say.

However, you never stated you were speaking as a member. And in fact, you specifically stated, "As a mod" you will not hesitate to "start handing out infractions left, right and centre." Therefore, it is impossible that your post should "be taken as anything other than a member post". You made it clear, it is not.

This would be like a cop giving advice to a bunch of people saying, "ignore my uniform, badge and gun", but then adds, "if you don't heed my advice, I'll arrest you". Or the general talking to the brand new 2nd lieutenant who says "ignore my rank" while displaying his stars in his face. No way is that lieutenant going to forget it is "The General" talking.

I'm on the staff at a couple other sites so I've seen and experienced both sides of the fence. If you don't want to be seen as a member of the staff, you have to take the badge off. I might suggest creating another username and posting with that. I know multiple username are generally frowned upon, but you might be surprised at how different some of the responses to your posts will be.

Again, as I said way above, your message was well said (and needed IMO). But clearly, it is a message coming from a TPU Moderator.
 
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I have to admit that I think that my rig is a budget rig (AMD 3600/16GB/1080 Ti)
That's not a budget PC, that would nicely fit into what I classify as upper mid-range. Just saying.
 
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I would like to contribute, but I still have to wait another 11 months and some postings.
 
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I thought was obvious that was sarcasm ... oh well.
Nope. It's text. No vocal inflection or tone of voice is possible, therefore unless you use specific vocabulary or a marker( /s ), nothing is obvious.
 
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There's a facet of nerd culture that is elitist, materialist, product oriented, with one's personal identity and value defined by one's possessions. I see it a lot on Reddit.
 

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Nope. It's text. No vocal inflection or tone of voice is possible, therefore unless you use specific vocabulary or a marker( /s ), nothing is obvious.

Suggesting to somebody anti-elitist thread that the reason why people don't like him is due to his system specs wasn't clear to you.
Let me guess a lot of times it's challenging fpr you getting past the I'm not a robot checks ? lol
 

rtwjunkie

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As far as I know, we don't have "hardware elitists" amongst regular TPU members. If anything, this community teaches newcomers to like and be enthusiastic about old hardware.
No, we really do. If you’re not seeing it it’s because you choose not to.
 
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Not sure harassed is the right word but I have been accused of not being a computer enthusiast on several occasions for all sorts of reasons that make no sense to me. For example, because I am not a hard-core gamer, I can't be a computer enthusiast. Or because my CPU is not a "K" model. Or because I don't over-clock or because I cool with air instead of liquid. Most recently it was because I stated I'm not into RGB lighting. Never mind the fact I've been into computers since the early 70s when I literally stood inside a NORAD mainframe consisting of more than 67,000 vacuum tube diodes. Or when I started overclocking, it involved cutting motherboard traces and soldering in jumpers. But then that's when 32KB of RAM was "more than you will ever need!" Oh well.

I have question for you, Do you feel like some of that has crept into reviews on Techpowerup here ?

I mean the more I read Techpowerup reviews, and the more it seems like it's skewed toward being a hardcore game vs being an enthusiast. The list of games used are always selected as most popular games played to be used. For a long time here on Techpowerup, Crysis was listed on reviews and it wasn't a popular game. I can understand it's hard to find a game like that. Moving games used to a new API like DX12 is nice too though.
 

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I have question for you, Do you feel like some of that has crept into reviews on Techpowerup here ?

I mean the more I read Techpowerup reviews, and the more it seems like it's skewed toward being a hardcore game vs being an enthusiast. The list of games used are always selected as most popular games played to be used. For a long time here on Techpowerup, Crysis was listed on reviews and it wasn't a popular game. I can understand it's hard to find a game like that. Moving games used to a new API like DX12 is nice too though.
That's because Gaming has become the primary use for most users home computers. You can still be an enthusiast and not game often. I love chasing numbers and so do thousands of others.. The primary use of my rig is looking at this and a few other websites. I pass out resumes, have all my music and pictures here.. I don't abuse my hardware, but I like to see what she can do and how she compares to other like minded individuals setups. This is my OCD box, something I can tinker with and do whatever I want to do, because its my toy. My last computer was about 8 years old, and the one before that is 2 years older, and they all serve the same purpose to me. This one just happens to do it a lot quicker than the others while hugging a polar bear at the same time.
 
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There's a facet of nerd culture that is elitist, materialist, product oriented, with one's personal identity and value defined by one's possessions. I see it a lot on Reddit.
Kinda sad really. Allowing one's sense of personal worth to be tied to an object is a sign of a deeper problem.

Suggesting to somebody anti-elitist thread that the reason why people don't like him is due to his system specs wasn't clear to you.
Chose your vocabulary better and the sarcasm you claim was intended would be more clear. The way you made your statement, with the words and order of those words, made it seem like you were doing exactly what was being discussed in the OP.
Let me guess a lot of times it's challenging fpr you getting past the I'm not a robot checks ? lol
And this unneeded and unprovoked personal insult suggests strongly that you were actually being a jerk and you're just trying to cover it up now. Very sad.
 
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I have question for you, Do you feel like some of that has crept into reviews on Techpowerup here ?

I mean the more I read Techpowerup reviews, and the more it seems like it's skewed toward being a hardcore game vs being an enthusiast.
I find it interesting that your question even implies there is a difference between hardcore gamers and being an enthusiast. That is just not so.

Even a hardcore gamer does not necessarily imply that person is a computer or hardware enthusiast. He or she may just love playing games. They could care less about the hardware - except that it better work.

Does a race car "driver" have to love cars? Or does he just have to love driving and racing? Or maybe he just wants to win. Does a mechanic have to love driving? Nope.

I'm a formally trained and certified electronics technician. I love electronics hardware. I hate computer programming. My first true love in electronics repair (as a hobby) was with audiophile quality audio reproduction equipment (repairing amps, pre-amps, tuners, and speakers). But professionally (for the first 15 years of my career in electronics), I was a certified air traffic control radio communications systems technician. My first job involving computers was to interface a LF radio system with a NORAD mainframe. I've built over 500 computers. As for gaming, I am a Freecell and Spider Solitaire addict.

But I don't do hard core gaming. So does that mean I am not a computer enthusiast?

As for TPU reviews, I note most of the components marketed these days are marketed as "gaming" components. And I note gaming is a pretty good way to measure hardware's performance.

Using cars again as an analogy - I note even plain ol' passenger car and pickup truck specifications state their 0 - 60MPH times.

That's because Gaming has become the primary use for most users home computers.
Bull feathers! Not even close. Gaming is a small segment of the entire market. But it is an important segment because when it comes to the more profitable, high-end computers and computer components, gamers are the ones buying them. And many gamers are hardware enthusiasts too.

But...
You can still be an enthusiast and not game.
Exactly! And you can be a gamer and not be an enthusiast.
 

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Well yeah that's what I meant.. :toast:

As for bull feathers, I suppose I meant a bunch of people that come here and sites like here.. not the entire segment.. whatever :D

It seems people just play games to stream for people to watch them play games when they could be playing a game too? makes no sense to me. I have no desire to sit there and watch someone play a game. But my kids have no problem with it. I think Twitch was better as Justin. TV but that's probably just me :)
 
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It seems people just play games to stream for people to watch them play games when they could be playing a game too? makes no sense to me.
Not sure I understand that either. However, I do like to watch a good football or basketball game, or a golf tournament, or the Olympics. So maybe that's kinda sorta the same thing.
 

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Personally, I love all hardware, and mounting pc's relaxes me (most of times). Old and new. I don't like to trash anything, unless it doesn't work. I see an old computer in the trash and I rescue it. I try to give it a second life (more RAM, a SSD ...). I try to fix it. And then, sometimes, I give it to people that can't buy a computer for working/studying. Only I ask that in case it doesn't work, do not throw it away and return it to me to trying fixing it.
 
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Yes, there is a lot of this .... it really makes no sense to buy / build a tool that is more capable then you need.

You don't need more cores if you have no apps that require or can even use more cores.
You don't need a smaller die size because if it doesn't run your apps better.
You don't need more VRAM because a utility said that X GB of VRAM has been "allocated"
You don't need more than a $150 CPU to run games ... at any resolution

You do not really benefit from doing anything faster if you are the bottleneck or if you are doing something else (multitasking). I had an employee assistant and part of his job was to to cost effective analysis of various construction option ... like better R values for windows versus increased cost .... and paving alternatives, looking at more expensive materials over useful lives. comparing with other solutions. So when he asked for an SSD to make him more efficient, I asked that he do a cost benefit analysis. So he took the seconds his machine would boot faster x 365 days x his salary and compared it against the cost of an SSD.

I reviewed it and ... he doesn't work 365 days, he works 220...after weekends, holidays, sick, personal and vacation removed. And he didn't include the downtime to reinstall OS and applications. In the end using a 4 year life, it was not cost effective. He came back with benchmarks for MS office, saying it was x % faster.... but that's a script of 100+ actions, and a user can't input that fast. Look even here at SSD tests, for the most part application performance is not tested... installation is.... something done once every 4 years. Outside of a production shop for audio, photo, video work or some scientific engineering applications, it's hard to make a case for an SSD. I have heard backups use as an example... but as they happen at 3 am who cares.

But the big thing about the employees failure to make a case was this. he';d arrive in the oiffice and switch on PC. tale off hs jacket, walk around and say Good Morning to everyone, chat with one of the gals about the radio program they istened to .. ask everyone if they wanted cofee ... make a pot.... and arrive at his desk 10- 15 or more minutes later. Then he'd drink his coffee with the bagel he brought in while listening to phone messages. He was not a very productive employee. But every employee in the building started off their day listening to phone messages while their PC booted. Getting it done in 15 seconds instead od 16 or 21 seconds had 0 impact on productivity. We install an SSD and a SSHD on every build with OS on both .... change the boot order after a few weeks after a new box is built .... no one ever notices.

So those messages saying "Oh your problem is you don't have an SSD, installing one will change your life .... To me if you can't notice that you are booting off an SSHD instead of the SSD you booted off yesterday ... no, it's not life changing. Neither is ...

... a 10400F versus a 10900KF
... an 8GB card versus an 4 GB card at 1080p
... an 8GB card versus an 6 GB card at 1440p

You just can't show an observable difference in the user experience for a human to notice.... unless:

... you are using applications that only a small % of PC users have installed
... Upu are mesuting things that are dobe very, very infrequently.

A homeowner doesn't need a compressor and air-nailer to hang pictures on the wall or replace a broken picket on a fence.
 
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It's clear that some companies actively promote such kind of elitism as this enables them to make more profit and keep the shareholders happy.
That pumping up of hype and prices with what ever fashion and fancy named gaming brands is indeed bad for PC markets as whole.
Good example is Asus Strix branding in motherboards.
Lots of people see it as some kind requirement for having good PC, despite most of the time clearly cheaper board being perfectly good for the job.
Leading to buyers spending money on something with no actual real world "ROI"...
Possibly in place of using difference to something else, where it could give actual real world usage value.

In storage Samsung SSDs are also on similar pedestal.
Sure they're good when looking only them alone.
But the fact is that for huge majority of users what ever differences there exist between drives (of same tech level) are meaningless and focus should be in capacity per price.

Similar things in CPU coolers and fans...


We are living in times where GPU prices have spiked to levels that I could not have even imagined even when this was happening then. For it to still be happening now with all thats going on, idiots insulting others for not being able to afford the newest hardware is ridiculous.
Indeed.
While I could myself afford those, there's simply nothing to defend in current prices of GPUs.

And if some person insists others should just accept paying those prices or get insulted...
Well, I would consider that person to have back skin itching for old fashioned manner education called corporal punishment.
(which at least "installed" some respect or fear of rule breaking penalty as spinal reflex)


Not sure harassed is the right word but I have been accused of not being a computer enthusiast on several occasions for all sorts of reasons that make no sense to me. For example, because I am not a hard-core gamer, I can't be a computer enthusiast. Or because my CPU is not a "K" model. Or because I don't over-clock or because I cool with air instead of liquid. Most recently it was because I stated I'm not into RGB lighting.
If not wanting to play latest in fashion/big marketing games, or especially not wanting RGB somehow supposedly excludes from being PC enthusiast according to some, those people have back skin itching for treatment...

I sure enjoyed overclocking E0 Q9550 fair 30% (while undervolted) and considerer it as major part of the hobby at time.
But overclocking doesn't even give anymore significant performance increase/more longevity as good PC.
Nowadays biggest difference manual overclocking would make is in max power consumption/heat output.

And while water is excellent for absorpting heat from short load spikes, in continuous cooling per noise average liquid cooler sold using fashion just isn't better than high end heatpipe cooler.

And RGB...
While I certainly understand and accept if someone must have it and consider controlled use as last touch often even stylish, that's no requirement for anything.
 
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Yes, there is a lot of this .... it really makes no sense to buy / build a tool that is more capable then you need.

You don't need more cores if you have no apps that require or can even use more cores.
You don't need a smaller die size because if it doesn't run your apps better.
You don't need more VRAM because a utility said that X GB of VRAM has been "allocated"
You don't need more than a $150 CPU to run games ... at any resolution

You do not really benefit from doing anything faster if you are the bottleneck or if you are doing something else (multitasking). I had an employee assistant and part of his job was to to cost effective analysis of various construction option ... like better R values for windows versus increased cost .... and paving alternatives, looking at more expensive materials over useful lives. comparing with other solutions. So when he asked for an SSD to make him more efficient, I asked that he do a cost benefit analysis. So he took the seconds his machine would boot faster x 365 days x his salary and compared it against the cost of an SSD.

I reviewed it and ... he doesn't work 365 days, he works 220...after weekends, holidays, sick, personal and vacation removed. And he didn't include the downtime to reinstall OS and applications. In the end using a 4 year life, it was not cost effective. He came back with benchmarks for MS office, saying it was x % faster.... but that's a script of 100+ actions, and a user can't input that fast. Look even here at SSD tests, for the most part application performance is not tested... installation is.... something done once every 4 years. Outside of a production shop for audio, photo, video work or some scientific engineering applications, it's hard to make a case for an SSD. I have heard backups use as an example... but as they happen at 3 am who cares.

But the big thing about the employees failure to make a case was this. he';d arrive in the oiffice and switch on PC. tale off hs jacket, walk around and say Good Morning to everyone, chat with one of the gals about the radio program they istened to .. ask everyone if they wanted cofee ... make a pot.... and arrive at his desk 10- 15 or more minutes later. Then he'd drink his coffee with the bagel he brought in while listening to phone messages. He was not a very productive employee. But every employee in the building started off their day listening to phone messages while their PC booted. Getting it done in 15 seconds instead od 16 or 21 seconds had 0 impact on productivity. We install an SSD and a SSHD on every build with OS on both .... change the boot order after a few weeks after a new box is built .... no one ever notices.

So those messages saying "Oh your problem is you don't have an SSD, installing one will change your life .... To me if you can't notice that you are booting off an SSHD instead of the SSD you booted off yesterday ... no, it's not life changing. Neither is ...

... a 10400F versus a 10900KF
... an 8GB card versus an 4 GB card at 1080p
... an 8GB card versus an 6 GB card at 1440p

You just can't show an observable difference in the user experience for a human to notice.... unless:

... you are using applications that only a small % of PC users have installed
... Upu are mesuting things that are dobe very, very infrequently.

A homeowner doesn't need a compressor and air-nailer to hang pictures on the wall or replace a broken picket on a fence.
So everybody should drive a corolla? There are so many variables you can add to you problems...and every single person will feel different in some way. Just offer good advice, try to help..maybe learn. That is why I come here....not to be personal and as humans we should all have thick skin, patience and understanding. I know the personal part is tough being human also...its what we do.
 
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