Haswell?

[freeboy]

is there a baseline of testing for my chip4760k? I am starting this weekend testing on air.. will be judging at stock speed temps and then stress testing again at no oc, only looking to see if the chip is good or bad for de lidding purposes...
ultimately I have a custom water system ans will probably de lid .. BUT
maybe
possible
I could be lucky and get a well lidded "cool" chip// lol
ok, probably even good chips will benifit from De-lidding .. thanks

 

[Sasqui]

is there a baseline of testing for my chip4760k? I am starting this weekend testing on air.. will be judging at stock speed temps and then stress testing again at no oc, only looking to see if the chip is good or bad for de lidding purposes...
ultimately I have a custom water system ans will probably de lid .. BUT
maybe
possible
I could be lucky and get a well lidded "cool" chip// lol
ok, probably even good chips will benifit from De-lidding .. thanks

Go here... "Intel Haswell Overclocking Clubhouse." lots to read, all sorts of results:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185344

 

[freeboy]

ok.. sorry but I was there and there is NOTHING related to a non oc baseline to judge my chip...
maybe I am not being clear in my ?

 

[erocker]

Define baseline? What are you trying to accomplish?

 

[freeboy]

baseline = some set of criteria where in we see the norm for volts and speed, //
for instance a baseline of 1.3 and speed of X.. as the temps range from xx to yy
So, I plug in my chip, run some basic tests not overclocked and say, "wow my chip \blows.." this is not the quality of the chip as only stressing and oc will tell me that, im really only looking at the quality of the tim.. and if its seriously hot at idle and load stock im going to de lid, and honestly the more I read.. like the dude who dropped 20C plus by de lidding and using the pro.. wow.. looks like now im going to de lid.. and will need to chose between mx-4 which is on order and pro or ultra for the re lidding .. thanks ..
looks like another rabit trail for me...

 

[erocker]

That really can't be done at stock other than seeing where your temps are at. It comes down to the most basic things. Check stability and temps. You won't know how good it OC's until you try. At stock... it will run like any other stock chip.

 

[cadaveca]

There is no baseline. What you get will depend on your chip, your cooling, the board you use, the number of VGAs you plug in, and how much memory your run and what speed the memory runs at.

OC potential can be noticed by booting in BIOS, clearing CMOS, and then checking voltage values IN BIOS. A chip with 1.050 V reported in BIOS with cleared CMOS or less should get 4.5 GHz @ 1.265 V.


BTW, Haswell doesn't have temp issues. TIM isn't a problem. Power density IS a problem, and changing TIM won't help that. Seen quite a few reports now of Haswell users delidding, and getting WORSE temps. I delidded IVB pretty quickly...Haswell, it's not a good idea to de-lid. You can run at throttle with Haswell on standard air cooling without worries. The Haswell chips run hot on purpose, so that the chip throttles when pushed too far.


DO keep in mind that SKT 1150 is Intel's MAINSTREAM platform, not ENTHUSIAST platform.

 

[EarthDog]

Especially the motherboard as far as performance goes in that some, out of the box, will 'perma boost' to 39x to all cores while others sit at 35x + 'natural' Turbo. If you are comparing performance, make sure its the same clocks and memory speeds.

OMG dave you have edited like 5 times in the minute it took to write this... haha, love the live update feature here at TPU...!

 

[cadaveca]

Especially the motherboard as far as performance goes in that some, out of the box, will 'perma boost' to 39x to all cores while others sit at 35x + 'natural' Turbo. If you are comparing performance, make sure its the same clocks and memory speeds.

OMG dave you have edited like 5 times in the minute it took to write this... haha, love the live update feature here at TPU...!

I wouldn't even call it "natural turbo" since many use profiles that are slightly faster than Intel's own. I actually went and bought an Intel board to see WTF was going on, since Intel doesn't send me anything at all. Thank god for retailers with 7-day return policies!

Sadly, I forgot to check NB speed on Intel boards, so I might have to pick up another and check THAT out, too. I'm wondering if NB speed should be 3.5 GHz by default, and if ALL boards are running boost NB speeds...

 

[freeboy]

Very interesting comments on de lidding Dave.. I saw many saying -10 to 22 C by de lidding.. sp?
my new board is a Gigabyte UD4H and i am adding a 4760k, custom water.. G skill Ripjaw X 2400..2 X 4 gig
my new PS arrives Sat, Sea sonic g550 modular... only terrible component is my old hard drives.. but hopefully they will not affect my OC...
Im getting mx-4 for paste.. did I miss anything? open test bench designed mod case ,...
so... what I think I hear you saying is test the chip and dont worry about de lidding ... hummm
right running singe gpu, gigabyte windforce oc660ti

Dave, im VERY interested in your OC guide! fyi...

 

[cadaveca]

A lot does seem to be dependent on the TIM used after de-lid, of course, but I have seen at least 15 users now using CLP on the chip without the expected results. Admittedly, that could be user error.

My heatsinks get fairly warm to the touch, and the expelled air is quite a bit warmer than ambient with all the Haswell chips I have had so far, but they have all been 4770Ks. With that in mind, the TIM is definitely working fine. If the heatsink remains cold, then something is wrong, for sure, but I've yet to experience that, so de-lidding is not an option at any point for me.


These chips don't really pull that much power, about 125 W or there abouts, when OC'd, so there isn't a lot of heat to be removed in the first place. I see similar temps as with IVB, when it is only pulling 90W, so that 35W greater power draw, with the same temps, means to me that everything isn't as bad as some users are reporting.

Dave, im VERY interested in your OC guide! fyi...

It's mostly written (ie, it's done), just need to add my results, which I'll do this weekend. I have four things to finish this weekend, the OC guide, a board review, and two memory reviews. I also have to finish testing the boards for the reviews I'll be working on next week. Should be no problem, just gotta wait for the wife to get home from work before I can begin.

 

[freeboy]

Here is part of an article to throw some fire into the are they hot or not debate from
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/06/06/haswell-heat/1


Haswell heat surprises system builders

Published on 6th June 2013 by Gareth Halfacree

103 Comments
News

Haswell heat surprises system builders

UK-based system builders have claimed that retail Haswell processors run significantly hotter and with lower overclocking potential than pre-launch engineering samples.
System builders have reportedly been blind-sided by Intel's latest fourth-generation Core series processors, with retail models proving significantly different to pre-production versions previously supplied.

Intel's latest Haswell chips represent a tock - the changing of the microarchitecture, rather than process node - in Intel's annual tick-tock development cycle. Based around an improved architecture, the processors include boosted graphics performance and improved speeds along with new instructions designed to further increase software performance. While the company is keeping its best innovation, its high-performance GT3e 'Iris Pro' graphics technology, for OEM-only parts supplied in ball-grid array (BGA) packages, it's clearly still hoping to make an impact with its more traditional land-grid array (LGA) parts.

Sadly, the impact it's made so far has been somewhat negative - at least where system builders are concerned. Anonymous individuals from four UK-based computer manufacturers have spoken to our sister publication PC Pro with the news that retail Haswell parts are considerably less capable than the pre-production versions on which they had been basing their engineering work.

Prior to each processor release, Intel produces a number of engineering sample chips. These chips are, theoretically, identical to the finished retail product, minus a few last-minute fixes that may be inserted to work around some bug or other. They are provided to hardware partners in order for pre-release engineering work - designing desktops, laptops, tablets and mobiles around the requirements of the part - to be carried out before mass production begins. This allows manufacturers to launch their products day-and-date with Intel's chip release.

Sadly, it doesn't appear to have worked out quite that way for Haswell. According to PC Pro, manufacturers who produce pre-overclocked gaming systems have found that the retail chips they've just received are only hitting speeds of 4.2GHz to 4.4GHz stably compared to up to 4.8GHz with pre-production engineering samples.

One manufacturer claims that pre-release chips marked as 3.5GHz parts were tested completely stably at 4.8GHz, but of the 40-50 retail units the company has tested not a single one has managed to reach above 4.2GHz without hitting unsafe temperatures or requiring too-high levels of voltage. Another firm has stated that it has had to drop plans to offer pre-overclocked Haswell systems running at 4.5GHz - a figure, again, planned based on engineering work carried out on pre-production samples provided by Intel - to 4.3GHz in order to ensure stability. 'There is a big difference in the overclocking potential between early Haswell samples and retail,' the unnamed manufacturer claimed.

Another manufacturer claims that retail Haswell parts are proving too hot to handle, stating that even while running at stock speeds the chips reach higher temperatures than the pre-production engineering samples - by around 15 degrees Celsius, according to the unnamed company's tests - or even the retail models of Intel's last-generation Ivy Bridge chips.

Intel, for its part, has refused to comment on the specifics of the manufacturers' claims, stating only that overclocking is not covered by the its warranties and that companies - or individuals - doing so are boosting performance at their own risk. The company has also stated that the overclocking potential of a given chip will vary from batch to batch, but has provided no explanation for the apparent vast difference in heat output between pre-production and retail Haswell models.

 

[cadaveca]

You're not going to post anything I haven't read before. I knew what to expect back in January, before any of this news was posted. The fact that these guys didn't, well, draw whatever conclusions you will. Intel covers it themselves:

Intel, for its part, has refused to comment on the specifics of the manufacturers' claims, stating only that overclocking is not covered by the its warranties and that companies - or individuals - doing so are boosting performance at their own risk. The company has also stated that the overclocking potential of a given chip will vary from batch to batch, but has provided no explanation for the apparent vast difference in heat output between pre-production and retail Haswell models.

Sure, I review stuff, but I have no direct contact with Intel. In fact, I review stuff sitting in my livingroom, it's not like I really feel that I'm some expert or anything...I'm just an enthusiast with a bunch of extra time that relates his experiences with hardware. Now, if me, as an enthusiast, knew in January that what Haswell is today was coming...and that ES chips would be different....heck, there are even different versions of ES chips. Anyway, if these guys based their "future products" around ES chip samples without reading the literature and understanding what exactly they were playing with, well, maybe you shouldn't buy parts from these people, and maybe that's why they remain nameless.


I had an ES chip(which I bought)...I chose to wait for retail chips before doing any reviews. Many other sites did not.

 

[freeboy]

makes sense to me .... JJ stated that the Asus team hit 7k on an extrem overclocked Haswell, so it get back to correctly OC and decent cooling
thanks for the input... and time .. I sent a pm re guide

 

[EarthDog]

7k in.........................?

 

[freeboy]

ok, jj mentioned they hit 7 k on one of the asus boards with a haswel chip.. not sure what you are asking, but 7 k even on phase change is pretty darn good

 

[EarthDog]

7K in what benchmark? Or are you talking overclocking and 7GHz?

Typically when one is talking overclocking, you would say 7GHz, or 7000MHz. 7K was vague to me, LOL!

 

[freeboy]

7 ghz ppffft oooopps sorry about that.. lol
I actually forgot people actually pay abstention to benchmarks... not that they are not valid to test, just not in my thinking ..
ok
they hit over 7k Ghz with haswel

 

[PopcornMachine]

Just recently occurred to me how appropriately these chips are named.

You better has well to cool a haswell.

 

[freeboy]

giggle snort

 

[erocker]

7 ghz ppffft oooopps sorry about that.. lol
I actually forgot people actually pay abstention to benchmarks... not that they are not valid to test, just not in my thinking ..
ok
they hit over 7k Ghz with haswel

What?!

 

[freeboy]

i am sure it was an extreme cooling situation... its from the video Eggheads and JJ talk OC
or is it "what" to my "benchmarks" comment...

 

[Deleted member 24505]

i am sure it was an extreme cooling situation... its from the video Eggheads and JJ talk OC
or is it "what" to my "benchmarks" comment...

It should be 7ghz, not 7k ghz, which would be 7 thousand ghz, not 7.

 

[shovenose]

It should be 7ghz, not 7k ghz, which would be 7 thousand ghz, not 7.

7KGHz would be friggin' awesome. The CPU cooler would have to be enormous though...

 

[McSteel]

7 THz would be unachievable, because RMS current over one second would be too much for any material known to man. Also, signal crosstalk, magnetic eddies etc.