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hat's 2600k clocking thread

hat

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#1
So, I found 4GHz stable a while ago with a little undervolt. Now I want to see how high I can get it. I've left all the voltages on auto, except for the CPU voltage offset. I think I might finally have gotten 4.6GHz stable, but temps are around 90c with... I believe the offset was +.165. This is with the linux bootable Linpack Xtreme. I don't accept running lighter tests that don't heat the CPU as much because they produce "unrealistic load", I want this thing rock solid stable.

Right now I'm wondering if leaving all the other voltages on auto (like vccio and vccsa) might mean they're getting cranked up at higher multipliers. When I did leave CPU voltage on auto, it was over 1.3v when I tried to run 4.6GHz. It's below 1.2v for 4GHz on auto... so it must be overvolting on auto when I crank the multiplier up... so I'm wondering if leaving those other voltages on auto might be delivering unnecessary voltage (and heat).

Short of that I guess I need a bigger case that can hold an h115, or better yet, a custom water setup... but I don't have that kind of playing money right now.

Right now I'm at 4.4GHz with a +.05 offset. 4.6 takes quite the jump in voltage to be stable...

-ed seems those other "funky voltages" actually don't budge, just the CPU voltage does when left on auto. I'm faced with temps in the high 80s to get to 4.6GHz with Linpack Xtreme. I guess I'll keep working with 4.4, it requires much less voltage than 4.6. More than 4.4, but it's tolerable. 4.6 is just toasty.
 
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#2
Sounds a lot like many people's experience with these chips. Beyond 4.5 Ghz the requirements increase dramatically.

What happened to 4.5? Sounds like a happy medium, if not the most efficient one, but temp wise that should land comfortably under 80 C.

Fire up Hwinfo and get readouts on those VCCIO and VCCSA voltages and the rest, see where you can trim them down a bit. I haven't touched those settings on DDR3 platforms, but for DDR4 (CFL) it has a noticeable impact and they're always set too high out of the box.
 

hat

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#3
4.5 may be possible but it's clear it would take more than 4.4...

4.4 proved unstable with +.05 offset, trying .065, temps at 75c
 
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#4
I'll see if I can find the results I had with my 2600k but using a H100 unit, I was able to get to about 5.2Ghz, but not for safe 24/7 voltages.. I was using IBT (Intel Burn Test set to maximum memory etc)

I've found these CPUs rather cool runners, and I don't remember the temps but don't believe I was hitting 90C even with 5Ghz or so.. I'll have to double check :)
 
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#5
Generally these things slot into a sweet spot where your temperatures are decent and the system is stable, yours might be 4.4. Manually set your VCCIO and VCSSA voltages. If you are running ram around 1600 you can get by with 1.05V and if you are running a high speed DDR3 kit you'd probably want to experiment as high as 1.15V. Setting these voltages manually will increase your headroom on the cpu core voltage.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...idge-overclocking-guide-ocn-members-only.html

You would also want to look at your load line calibration setting, since you are being conservative on your overclock but also desiring stability you might want an LLC that is the second from the maximum.
 
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#6
I swear back in the day if you found one of these that didn't do 5 GHz, it was considered a pig. I have seen a few threads where people are struggling to get past 4.6 GHz or so. These things were soldered and could run 5 GHz on decent air when they were released (Prime 95 - small FFT). I believe part of this issue is the stress testing tool being used and further supports my 'more meat on the bone' theory I mentioned in the other thread. I won't debate it here, but will say that P95 (latest versions) does make stable systems. So does AIDA, So does Realbench (yes, ready to hear anecdotes saying "well I tested [insert stress test here] for x hours and I had a BSOD so there)...

Just because its running things WELL above what others do, doesn't make it any better or your CPU more stable. If the CPU doesn't crash for your uses, than it is stable. So, hat, you can likely run a few hundred MHz higher AND have a stable CPU...if this is the test you insist on running, that is OK, but, you are leaving enough meat on the bone to make a soup after for what feels like very little reason. :)

Voltages seem high for the clockspeed...but its likely due to the stress test.


you might want an LLC that is the second from the maximum.
Why? If he isn't getting any vdroop (or is for that matter) why would this help? Its there for vdroop. If he's stable at 1.3V with LLC he's stable at 1.3V without LLC. There are a couple of ways to skin that cat.

All too often, EVERYWHERE, I see people just using LLC... even when it isn't needed. Vdroop is part of the intel spec gents! And if the board does a good enough job of preventing vdroop (to me is off .02V from idle to load) LLC isn't needed.
 
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#7
Mentioned LLC because he didn't mention it. I don't know if he is running the maximum LLC but I was saying it wasn't needed on maximum. However LLC is useful for stability.
He states the stability is his primary goal.

It is more stable with LLC. My understanding of Vdroop and overshoot is that the voltage overshoot at 1.25V when using LLC isn't going to be the massive spike that running 1.4V+ with LLC would encounter. His priority is " rock solid stable. "

As far as 5Ghz or bust, I encountered several sandys that didn't do 4.5. He is also running a CPU that has presumably been run for 7 years already.
 
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#8
Voltage droop is board dependent really... not voltage.

Right... that and these are old chips put out to pasture people are seeing. Back in the day, anything under 4.6 was a monumental dud. We are seeing a lot of these around now.
 
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#9
Voltage droop is board dependent really... not voltage.
Vdroop is meant to remedy the issue of overshooting voltage during load to idle. If you are running 1.2V and you run LLC and you get a voltage overshoot spike to 1.3V for a very brief period who cares. If you are running 1.4V and running LLC and you get a voltage overshoot spike to 1.5V that might be a bigger problem for your CPU's lifespan. The downside to LLC is the propensity to have the spike because there is reduced vdroop. Hes running 1.25V. The overshoot is probably not that significant. Running a moderate LLC isn't going to kill his CPU. It would improve stability.

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/load-line_calibration#Overshoot
There is an obvious problem with this kind of technique and that is overshooting. When the PWM Controller senses added load and voltage drop, it will attempt to compensate for it by increasing the duty cycle. However, when the processor goes back to idle, since the controller cannot predict the future, there will be a delay until the PWM senses another drop and readjusts the duty cycle back down. Therefore, for a short period of time when the load current dropped, there will be a spike in voltage.


This spike, called an overshoot, exceeds the desired reference voltage. A spike in voltage that is too great will degrade the transistors on the chip. Extremely high voltage will cause a catastrophic breakdown of transistors. Companies such as Intel publish VRM specifications that specify what's the maximum allowed overshot voltage (VOS_max) and for how long it's allowed (TOS). Since motherboard manufacturers cannot exceed those ratings, there's a limit as to how high they can change the duty cycle before you exceed those ratings. Therefore it's natural for VRMs to have a certain amount of Vdroop in order to make sure they do not exceed the allowed overshoot voltage. In other words, Vdroop is intentionally added in order to prevent a voltage overshoot that is harmful to the CPU.
 
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#10
If your board has digi vrm section adjusting those settings can give you great results.
 
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#11
Vdroop is meant to remedy the issue of overshooting voltage during load to idle. If you are running 1.2V and you run LLC and you get a voltage overshoot spike to 1.3V for a very brief period who cares. If you are running 1.4V and running LLC and you get a voltage overshoot spike to 1.5V that might be a bigger problem for your CPU's lifespan. The downside to LLC is the propensity to have the spike because there is reduced vdroop. Hes running 1.25V. The overshoot is probably not that significant. Running a moderate LLC isn't going to kill his CPU. It would improve stability.

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/load-line_calibration#Overshoot





Also from your link.......


Load-Line Calibration (LLC) is a mechanism offered to overclockers designed to compensate for large voltage droops when a CPU or GPU is under increased load. The mechanism attempts to compensate for the sudden sagging in voltage by preemptively applying additional voltage. The LLC, which is part of the voltage regulator module, was introduced in order to ensure a more smooth voltage delivery when the CPU/GPU is both idle as well as under heavy load, thereby eliminating related system instability or crashes on overclocked systems. This feature is aimed at overclockers as for normal systems the LLC is usually disabled by default because typical Vdroop is part of the system specification.

It's important to note that LLC has very significant impact on the overshoot voltage, therefore it's usually best to be very conservative in how much LLC offset voltage is being applied. The exact impact and overshoot will highly depend on the motherboard and on the PWM and VRM circuits and how well they can sense and react to voltage and current changes. A good PWM that's fast and can react well will adjust fast enough before the maximum overshoot is even reached allowing to adjust the LLC further. Choose the right configuration will largely depend on the motherboard capabilities.
Its exactly what I said it was. :)

I see your point now... I thought it wasn't enabled and you were saying to enable it. But you suggested to LOWER it... apologies I missed that.
 
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#12
Also from your link.......


Its exactly what I said it was. :)

I see your point now... I thought it wasn't enabled and you were saying to enable it. But you suggested to LOWER it... apologies I missed that.
Well if its auto it might be on maximum so should lower it, but if its off it might be worth having it on, but on moderate setting, usually second from the maximum is the moderate setting on the boards I have had.
I'm just saying that if hes running a low voltage like 1.25, running a little bit of LLC would be helpful for stability without any real danger of overvolting during the voltage overshoot.
 
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#13
I havent seen auto be max before...but there is a first time for everything! Def. worth playing with.

I think I reviewed a dozen+ z370/b360/h370 boards and one needed any LLC. Whatever level auto was provided a stable voltage (be it DISABLED or set at a level depends on the aib/board). Of three z390, none yet.

A user has a choice to raise voltage a notch, or bump up LLC a notch for stability. Because I'm a bit OCD, what voltage I set in the bios is what I want to see on load. This way, no simple mathzz. Lol.
 
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#14
Have you tried just upping the Core Current Limit <108>, Turbo Power Boost Power Max <120> and Turbo Short Power Boost Power Max <125>.
I only had to add a 40mV for additional Turbo Voltage and left ALL other voltage's stock even the 1.00 Core voltage.
As for LLC, this Z68 just use's the Low setting automatically
During the Samsung wonder ram I got to 5.2 with 102 bClck but HAD to leave All other voltage's at stock.
I just run it with these setting's on the old skt 478 Ninja and never see 70c with an old Corsair fan
Been the same since 2011
 
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#15
IBT High Pass.png


Managed to find the 5Ghz pass, I think 5.2Ghz was requiring too much. If I recall, this wasn't a particularly great CPU but it ran 4.8Ghz around 1.4vcore with IBT passing at high...

IBT High Pass.png


If I could find a better one or a 2700k boxed one that would be higher, I'd consider it just for my collection of CPUs.. Board used was my Asus Z77 Formula OCF :) I don't believe I messed about with any volts on this CPU other than the vcore I think... They aren't like the X58 CPUs, man they needed to be tweaked....
 

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#16
So, I found 4GHz stable a while ago with a little undervolt. Now I want to see how high I can get it. I've left all the voltages on auto, except for the CPU voltage offset. I think I might finally have gotten 4.6GHz stable, but temps are around 90c with... I believe the offset was +.165. This is with the linux bootable Linpack Xtreme. I don't accept running lighter tests that don't heat the CPU as much because they produce "unrealistic load", I want this thing rock solid stable.

Right now I'm wondering if leaving all the other voltages on auto (like vccio and vccsa) might mean they're getting cranked up at higher multipliers. When I did leave CPU voltage on auto, it was over 1.3v when I tried to run 4.6GHz. It's below 1.2v for 4GHz on auto... so it must be overvolting on auto when I crank the multiplier up... so I'm wondering if leaving those other voltages on auto might be delivering unnecessary voltage (and heat).

Short of that I guess I need a bigger case that can hold an h115, or better yet, a custom water setup... but I don't have that kind of playing money right now.

Right now I'm at 4.4GHz with a +.05 offset. 4.6 takes quite the jump in voltage to be stable...

-ed seems those other "funky voltages" actually don't budge, just the CPU voltage does when left on auto. I'm faced with temps in the high 80s to get to 4.6GHz with Linpack Xtreme. I guess I'll keep working with 4.4, it requires much less voltage than 4.6. More than 4.4, but it's tolerable. 4.6 is just toasty.
Ryzen blender
 
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#17
1. My son's 2600k has saved BIOS profiles for 4.6, 4.7 and 4.8 GHz.

2. Your testing is not "real world" ... using linPack extreme is like doing a MPG test on a Prius towing a 16,000 pond load. Your car, PC or anything else only has to be "rock solid stable" when experiencing real world loads .... doing unrealistic loads only means:

a) Your CPU is stable in an environment it will never ever see.
b) Are you testing with AVX and othe modern instruction sets ? If so you have proved you are rock solid stable only when such instructions are not present ...
c) Are you testing in a multitasking environment ? If so you have proved you are rock solid stable only when your CPU is doing single, simple tasks.

It's the equivalent of giving a college baseball player a tryout and then evaluating him soley on the ability to hit 180 mph fastballs that no human can throw... still leaves you with no idea whether he can hit a curveball.

3. I have had "rock solid synthetic stress tests" 24 hour stable and then fail in less than an hour under a real life application multitasking stress test like RoG Real Bench.

3. If what you do with the box, besides stress testing, does not benefit from more than 4 cores, then turning off HT will save you about 7C.
 
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#18
You should be able to hit 4.8 GHz on auto settings with a good air cooler. If not, you probably have a bad mobo or proc. My last rig was a 2600k with an Arctic V6 air cooler on a garbage Gigabyte p67A board. Stock air cooler only 4.6 GHz, 5.1GHz max with the V6, 4.8 GHz stable.
 
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#19
Average OC on air: 5046MHz
http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_2600k/

If I had one that wouldn't do 4.8GHz easy, I'd shelve it and buy another. Because odds are extremely high the next one I bought would easily do that(or likely higher). If I had one that only did 4.6GHz, I'd take a BFH and put it out of its misery. That's pathetic.
 
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#20
Indeed! But, no chance running his stress test of choice.
 

hat

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#21
Indeed! But, no chance running his stress test of choice.
This guy gets it. Yes, this CPU may do more if I used lighter tests, but I just don't roll that way...

Side note: I tried everything under the sun to get my ram to 2133, wouldn't work, heh... tried more vram (up to 1.65), more vccio (up to 1.2) and loosening timings from 9 10 9 28 to 11 11 11 33.
 
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#22
@hat what do you use for the testing, LinX?
 
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#23
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#24
VRAM? I think you met to say ramping up the voltage to your DDR3 without any success?

Linpack Extreme?
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/linpack-xtreme-released.247335/
I'm sure it has it's uses but PC's can be a funny things....

@hat , if you're overclocking your CPU, do that without messing about with the ram timings/speeds etc, too much can go wrong. Test for speed then tweak the ram timings :) You'll find changing too much at once just complicates the issues and makes things a nightmare.
 
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#25
but I just don't roll that way...
You can though. It's simply a choice to go 2x overkill and leave meat on the bone. :)
 
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