look at the ultimate product... 1 card is going toe to toe with the current top gen dual cards - and will beat them in DX11 w/ tesselation nd all the API improvements. This card is not perfect - but its out and it is the fastest single gpu on the planet since 1900XTX for ati. NV, on the other hand is nowhere to be seen. They have doubled performance ONCE since the G80, and their cycle is obviously longer than ATI's. From the ultimate product standpoint, I would take a 5870/5850 over a gtx285 or 295 any day - its a better product, irrespective of the point that the specs are double but the perf is only 85%greater in dx10 titles with one month old drivers. the 5870 is practical, cheap to make, has a 256bit bus which makes it even cheaper, and delivers great performance. The gt300 is nowhere to be seen - most likely due to the issues that are inherent in the development of such an incredibly complex design.