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Help me fix my cooling please

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#1
I can't seem to fix the cooling in my case no matter what I try, so I need some input from more experienced people.
Basically all the hot air (which is mostly generated by the graphic btw) card goes straight into the PSU for some reason I can't seem to understand.

Attached is current picture of my PC.

The fans, if it's of any importance, are:
CPU: Noctua P12
graphic card: Noctua S12 (mounted onto Accelero S1 Plus)
top: Corsair AF140
intake: (surprisingly silent) Lian Li fan shipped with the case

Original state of the case was no intake/outtake fans except for the PSU. I tried several things so far:

First I installed a fan as rear outtake (some 1100 RPM). No change whatsoever.

Second, I bought the Corsair fan. There was some very slight improvement: the PSU fan would stop at around 1400 RPM instead of going all the way to 1700-1750 (not quite sure what the real max is) and the VRMs on the graphic card would not go over 97°C (the record was 105 before), and the GPU was a little bit cooler as well. Ironically, there was hardly any difference between running the fan at 700 RPM and its max of 1100 (except for annoying noise in the latter case)

Third, I experimented with adding rear fan (didn't use it the first time I tried the Corsair out). Zero difference.

Fourth, I added front intake fan. Absolutely zero difference.

Later on I also removed the HDD cage which was sitting in front of the intake fan, and moved a disk to 5.25" bay and into one of those silencing enclosures. Needless to say, no change in airflow.

The main problem is obviously the airflow, which just completely ignores the huge Corsair fan that's supposed to do most of the work, and instead tries to rape my poor PSU, which in return punishes me with the sounds of 1400+ RPM, which is seriously unpleasant.
What baffles me is the absolute ineffectiveness of the rear fan, because all the hot air surely should pass along it, since it's somehow being directed to the PSU, which sits in the same line.

Give me some ideas please, I am out of mine.
 

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Bo$$

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#2
If you look closely all the hot air will be sitting beneath the PSU. Have you taken into account that the PSU produces quite a load of heat alone.

The corsair fan will probably be better in the rear than at the top

There is no need to worry make sure you've got good ventilation and that's all.


For the graphics card add some VRM heatsinks if you can.
 
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#4
Why would it sit exclusively beneath the PSU? I expected the Corsair fan to create a bit of an airflow which would direct the hot air a bit more towards it. Generally speaking, hot air simply goes up, but I fail to understand why would it go up and to the back of the case.

The rear hole is 120mm only, so not many options here.
Cooling itself on the graphic card is not a problem, I left the original cooler plate on the card and slapped the Accelero on top of that, it works really well. It's just the airflow I can't do anything about.

Up to some point I am not fussed about temperatures at all, BUT the trouble with the PSU is it also gets extremely loud, so it's two problems in one really.

Have you tried adding some fans on the side panel to carry the hot air out?
I would, but there are no holes for them :( It's also that type of panel with large "window" so you can see inside, which I am not very fond of, but the case only comes in this version.
 
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#5
Oh there's one more thing. I noticed part of the airflow from the CPU fan goes to all sides instead through the heatsink. I am not sure how big effect it might have on the general case airflow, but I sure don't like it too much. I'd guess the fins on the heatsink are too close to each other. 2mm is rather standard though.

I also tried putting the fan on the opposite side of the heatsink, thinking some of the air would be pushed to the front side of the case instead of accumulating under the PSU, and the Corsair would then suck it out, but no change.
 
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#6
You might want to try the PSU outside of your system and see if its fan still spins up just as fast under load. With the top and rear outtake fans plus the front intake, you shouldn't have much heat build up at all. It could just be a very aggressive fan / temp profile of the PSU fan and the load from your PC is really what's causing the unit to heat up and ramp up the fan noise.
 

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#7
Does the rear fan mount support 140mm? If not get the Corsair AF120 or a few more AF140's get rid of the LianLi fan at the front and replace it with one of those corsairs.

Secondly - get rid of that optical drive, Velcro or tape your ssd to the top the hard drive thats sitting at the top and push them to the top of the 5,25' bay and purchase something like this from Lian li. Put that in in the 3 5,25' bays that are now vacant.

If you want to keep the optical bay and hard drive space/configuration then get something like a Lian Li EX-33X1 or Lian Li EX-33B

Also - get rid of that Noctua cooling the 5850 and cable tie 2 Scyth GT-AP15's.


Noctua make great fans but they are one of the bigger names that tend to exaggerate their fan specs.

If you can, replace the fan on your CPU cooler with a 120mm Akasa Apache or even 2 of them in push/pull if you can get some fan clips for the cooler - Cable ties will also work fine.


that is what i would do.... Anything short of replacing the case.

If you must replace it though go for either a Fractal Design R4, Antec One, One-Oh-Two or Eleven Hundred of you MUST have a case with a window'd side panel. The Fractal Design R4 also comes with a window'd or non window'd option.

All these cases will have better stock air flow then your Lian Li and the Antec's will not break the bank as they are great bang for buck cases.
 
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#8
If i am looking at your pic right it says the rear exhaust fan hole is sealed? Is this the hole lot that is sealed because if it is all that hot air from your cpu is probably bouncing back because it has no where to go.
 
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#9
You might want to try the PSU outside of your system and see if its fan still spins up just as fast under load. With the top and rear outtake fans plus the front intake, you shouldn't have much heat build up at all. It could just be a very aggressive fan / temp profile of the PSU fan and the load from your PC is really what's causing the unit to heat up and ramp up the fan noise.
It's really just the accumulated heat. The PSU fan would sit at quiet 600 RPM for a few minutes of Prime95+Furmark combo, and only after a while would start spinning up to those enormous speeds.
couple interesting points
God, you're suggesting I turn the case into a Boeing with 8 turbines, lol.
I want a quiet PC you know :p

I know (or rather realized over time) Noctua does have a great name, but not so great performance, but it gets the job done. I will eventually replace some of the fans for sure though.
I don't see much point in replacing the one on graphic card, it can cool it just fine, the problem is the almost nonexistant case airflow.
Considering the intake fan doesn't help the airflow at all (which doesn't mean it performs badly, although it's definitely not awesome either) there probably isn't much point in replacing it with something better. Pumping the air inside faster won't help when it wouldn't leave the case fast enough :p

BTW, I only have Prime95 running right now, and the inside of the case is hardly warm at all. CPU temperature is hitting 79°C on the hottest core. PSU fan is relaxing at around 700 RPM.

Graphic card generates all the heat, but I did know that before. I just need to make the hot air leave the damn case. The stock coolers kind of do this, but are noisy as shit, so that type of cooling is out of question, unfortunately.

If i am looking at your pic right it says the rear exhaust fan hole is sealed? Is this the hole lot that is sealed because if it is all that hot air from your cpu is probably bouncing back because it has no where to go.
It looks weird yeah, but keep in mind having a fan there instead of shutting the hole closed produced exactly the same result. Also, pretty much no air is coming through the CPU heatsink, I guess it's dissipated in all directions, so the rear hole doesn't benefit me in the slightest. I wish it did! This type of outtake way is probably the most commonly used and it works.
 

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#10
God, you're suggesting I turn the case into a Boeing with 8 turbines, lol.
I want a quiet PC you know :p

I know (or rather realized over time) Noctua does have a great name, but not so great performance, but it gets the job done. I will eventually replace some of the fans for sure though.
I don't see much point in replacing the one on graphic card, it can cool it just fine, the problem is the almost nonexistant case airflow.
Considering the intake fan doesn't help the airflow at all (which doesn't mean it performs badly, although it's definitely not awesome either) there probably isn't much point in replacing it with something better. Pumping the air inside faster won't help when it wouldn't leave the case fast enough :p

BTW, I only have Prime95 running right now, and the inside of the case is hardly warm at all. CPU temperature is hitting 79°C on the hottest core. PSU fan is relaxing at around 700 RPM.

Graphic card generates all the heat, but I did know that before. I just need to make the hot air leave the damn case. The stock coolers kind of do this, but are noisy as shit, so that type of cooling is out of question, unfortunately.


It looks weird yeah, but keep in mind having a fan there instead of shutting the hole closed produced exactly the same result. Also, pretty much no air is coming through the CPU heatsink, I guess it's dissipated in all directions, so the rear hole doesn't benefit me in the slightest. I wish it did! This type of outtake way is probably the most commonly used and it works.
I used to have a similar issue with airflow running 6970s in a cramped Antec 902 with no fan on the sidepanel due to the size of the 6970s obstructing any fan mounted on the side panel

While the CPU ran cool, the GPUs would get pretty hot until I could work out a way to channel direct airflow over the cards.

So trust me I know what im talking about when i say i slaved over a similar problem.

you say that inside your case is running cool but yet your having problems getting the hot air to leave???

thats a contradiction right there.

------

Ok so lets revise my suggestions on the cooling a bit.

Purchase 2x Scythe GT AP-15s for the GPU - trust me these fans are quite silent! - you need better fans with more static pressure to push air over the fins of the heatsink - I dont care whatever Noctua specs tells me, I know for a fact that it aint got good static pressure - Scythe GTs have it in the bucket loads.

replace the front Lian Li fan with a 120/140mm with a Silverstone Air penetrator - this will channel cool air to your GPU. - this here will provide airflow needed for your GPU


add another Corsair AF140 as an exhaust.

go with my idea of having a fan/HDD bay in the 5,25' - this will provide air for the CPU instead of recycling the hot air that rises up from the GPU, Install a Silverstone Air Penetrator in that 5,25' bay


you should be all good to go.

Give it ago - If the results arent satisfactory then I will paypal you money for the air penetrators & Scythe GTs so you arent exactly losing a lot of money over it.



HOWEVER - If you think about the amount of money you are spending on fans just to upgrade the cooling - you can get one of the antec cases that i suggested and that has much better airflow and cooling compared to your lian li and be done with it

The decision is yours.


Also as far as the boeing comment goes - AF140s, scythe GTs and Silverstone APs arent that extremely loud, If you want true silence then grab one of them passively cooled cases that Zalman used to make a few years back
 
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#11
you say that inside your case is running cool but yet your having problems getting the hot air to leave???
thats a contradiction right there.
That was when the GPU was idle and only CPU being stressed, or in other words: to make a point the only heat generating problem is the GPU.

Purchase 2x Scythe GT AP-15s for the GPU - trust me these fans are quite silent! - you need better fans with more static pressure to push air over the fins of the heatsink - I dont care whatever Noctua specs tells me, I know for a fact that it aint got good static pressure - Scythe GTs have it in the bucket loads.
At first I was like wtf, that ain't helping me, there is the GPU's PCB in the way, but then I realized I might get the thing not go over 100 degrees at the very least - so yea that could work.

replace the front Lian Li fan with a 120/140mm with a Silverstone Air penetrator - this will channel cool air to your GPU. - this here will provide airflow needed for your GPU
add another Corsair AF140 as an exhaust.
The only 140mm hole in my case is the top one, so this won't work. I am waiting for Xbitlabs to finish their 120mm fan roundup they are working on though, so I will probably choose something based on their tests.

go with my idea of having a fan/HDD bay in the 5,25' - this will provide air for the CPU instead of recycling the hot air that rises up from the GPU, Install a Silverstone Air Penetrator in that 5,25' bay
Thanks for the tip, but nope - I like it the way it is. And there's no room for it anyway.

HOWEVER - If you think about the amount of money you are spending on fans just to upgrade the cooling - you can get one of the antec cases that i suggested and that has much better airflow and cooling compared to your lian li and be done with it
Well, I thought about that possibility. That's definitely only the last desperate solution, because the Lian is not even two years old, and I actually like it (Also, though a minor thing, it has red HDD led, which seems rare as hell these days. Wtf happened to the classical green/red LED colours anyway?)
 
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#12
The heat is just the result of overclocking really.
Can't expect much more temperature reduction according to the clock speeds in your system specs.

You would need beefier cooling on the critical components giving off heat being the overclocked CPU and GPU.
Most likely water cooling would be the main option.

Especially since your are wanting a quiet PC which is also over clocked.
 
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#13
Well, overclock or not, when exhaust fan is not sucking any hot air out, problem is somewhere else I'd say...
Yeah the GPU does generate lots of heat, but the airflow just isn't there, which is what I am trying to (at least partially) fix.
 
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#14
What are the max CPU and GPU temperatures are you getting with the side panel off?

If the GPU is pushing out the heat, the other components will also get a higher temperature.

Had this happen when I upgraded to my HD7870.
My HD4850 would reach 65degC max while my 7870 reaches about 75degC average.

The increase in constant temperature also increase the temperature of the CPU by a bit.

My Case is basically identical to yours but I only use a 120mm rear and side 120mm exhaust which may be of benefit compared to your case layout.
But still I have the side fan on about 900rpm max.
 
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#15
Yea I strongly believe side fan would help me a lot. Unfortunately, Lian Li doesn't have one available for my case, which sucks ass. I have to work with what I have.

I can see how bottom-mounted PSU case would benefit me in this particular case as well, but nothing Antec or Fractal have suit my needs (three 5.25" bays are a must, and no awkward unremovable cages and other stuff in the way among other things).
Or maybe I could buy another one from Lians. Or maybe not, because despite these cases look absolutely awesome and installing stuff is exceptionally good, they are also pretty light and I am not exactly fond of pushing the board 1cm "deep" when I plug in the power cord in :D I need something sturdier.
 
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#16
You're pretty much stuck as you are for the time being.
Unless you lower the clock speeds in compensation for a silent PC.

I had been thinking of going for another Lian-Li but the Fractal ARC Midi R2 will be the way I am going as soon as the e-retailer over here sells their last Original ARC Midi which only has USB 2.0 on the front.

If you can can somehow sacrifice a 5.25 drive bay, the new Fractal ARC Midi maybe a suitable replacement for you.
 
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#17
Have you tried to flip the top fan as an Intake?

I think I have been thru about every trial of using fans in countless arrangements[most will remember back from my skt478 days with the 3.4EE in the Tt Xasier case]

I did alot of moding to it, 2 120 holes in the bottem adding a pair of Kaza 3 fans, a 120 to 140 adapter for the rear exhaust, and even a COOLER MASTER 4-in-3 with a 120x38mm
:respect:San Ace 9G1212H1011:pimp: fan undervolted.

I finally had to bite the bullet after fighting with the heat, same as you and got the in use
HAF X, my biggest issue is that it sits indise a closed 300lb desk, but I realize that the Big slow fans move much more air cooler into the case, so having the over pressure, moves the heat out better, thus the afore mentioned higher pressure fans.

I'm only using the single rear 140mm fan as exhaust, but granted there's a LOT of ventilation holes in this case.
The highly praised San Ace 9G1212H1011 fans[thank you binge!!] are just mind blowing undervolted, and the pair are still in use today.

If you want to keep the case, try a 120 to 140 adapter's, add a 4in3 cage[ quite a few brands out there] and the fan choice you find most desirable, and short of modding for other fans[either bigger, or more places] you may want to get a new case.


And really as far as modding, you just need a drill bit, file and semi-steady hand and measure, eyeball, trace out the fan spots drill the bolt holes, use the bit to drill holes in the outline of the fan center, file the tit's between the holes sooth to make the hole round and mount fan. Yes it is somewhat timely, but it's just another way of "overclocking" by way of "modding";) If the side panel is flat enough you could try to see if you can use 200, or even 240 fan there.:D
 
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#18
Hm, flipping the fan. I guess it can't get worse than it is, lol. Might as well try that, but I don't think it would work (it does blow SOME warm air out).

I was also thinking about some sort of wind tunnel or "air separator" that would direct the hot air around the graphic card more towards the top fan, or fuck knows what weird gadget Google can spit out. There's also a Lian Li cooler that's mounted on top of the slots that blows out, BUT I'd have to get different heatsink for the graphic card as the Accelero is too high. Also, I have no idea how noisy that think would be, so I am not playing lottery here.

I guess I will keep an eye out for new reviews and new cases in general, and hopefully I will find something sooner or later. Luckily I am uneployed atm and can't afford major upgrades anyway :D

Modding is totally out of question, I am that type of guy who can't even use a saw in straight line :D
 
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#19
Since you mentioned about directing airflow, just look around the homestead and be creative obviously it dont need to have this kind of a mess, but it might give you some highlights to brainstorm. {link below} As far as a rear brkt mount exhaust blower, I tried it once, forget it, it's just another hairdryer.....

You might first try getting a good 120 fan affixed to the front of the 5.25 bays, but looking at some front photos it seems the covers are solid, so if your budget can handle it, and if it will fit your 5.25 bays, try a 4n3 cage that allows a 120 fan to mount. I have the 38mm Sanyo Denki San Ace 1011 mounted to that Coolermaster cage, and just slid it back inside the case till

A:[as on my ole Tt Xaser IV] it was flush to the front [added a wire spoke grill since we had our grandson aere then]
B: slid in so the HAF-X faceplates fitted on

I remember something about where 1 San Ace @ 5 Volts = 2xGT AP-15(push/pull) @ full speed:pimp:
At 5 Volts the San Ace has around 1100 RPM, and really with all the fan's in my HAF, the XFX5870 XXX Ed is louder at only 26% so even thou the big bad boy fan[SA1011] that it is, it add's far more cooling than noise.

I think I got the cage for about $20 and binge hooked me up with his budy for the 2 SA1011's for only $40. So about $20-40, for the cage and/or a really good fan you decide on can give you a good cooling advantge.

Even just replacing that top fan with a better fan,[more than likely blowing in] will help

Is it worth it? From the results I got adding an extra fan on the front of the case did lower all my temps. in both cases and 3 differnt platforms the following is from the extremly hot
3.4EE Gallitan, on an Abit Ai7, and a Gainward Bliss from hell inside an "80/92mm" case
Note the "air director" lol

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=658974&postcount=62
just realizied thats where my sig had started from, I was getting 3.8-3.9 on that old EE, and that was a real feat back then to get there on air[ the same Ninja i'm using to this day]:rockout:

So from what I'm getting a picture of is 3 HP fan's, 2 in front, 1 on top all blowing in to push the air out. Mabey a $60 or less cost.
 
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#20
That's a lot of stuff to consider. I'll start googling the fans up :)

Btw I thought about replacing the CPU fan with Corsair H80, which would create some more space inside, and possibly blowing a little bit of the heat out as well. Just not sure about its performance on (slightly) overclocked 3770K (I fear high RPM fan noise the most).
 
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#21
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#22
I decided to abandon the Corsair AF140 fan. In fact I have to RMA it. The rubber stuff in the mounting holes is incredible pain in the ass. It doesn't "stand still" and trying to screw it anywhere is seriously frustrating. Mine went as far as one of those things getting ripped to pieces during the process (and I didn't even know until I took it back out after noticing one corner was still moving freely). That's some extremely stupid design.

Anyway. I am looking for a new 140mm fan. What would you recommend? I was looking at either Nanoxia FX EVO 140mm IFC 1500 or SCYTHE SM1425SL12M 1200rpm Slip Stream.

What do you think?