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Help modding my HD 7850 BIOS!

Discussion in 'AMD / ATI' started by Malik Sajid, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Malik Sajid

    Malik Sajid

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    Hi, guys! I have a Sapphire HD 7850, I want to unlock its voltage so I can push it to 1.3v
    I tried RBE but it seems that it can't recognize my bios saying it's not an ATI BIOS, I also tried Radeon HD 7000 BIOS Editor but it says voltage control is impossible as my card is non reference.
    I heard that asus dcii top bios unlocks voltage so I flashed it but it broke my card!

    So is there anyway to modify my Sapphire bios? This is my current bios: https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/138866/sapphire-hd7850-1024-130124-2

    If anyone can modify it for me I will be grateful
     
  2. MrGenius

    MrGenius

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    You could try VBE7.0.07b. That looks like it will get you from 1.210V to 1.225V. Which is a good start. But what you really want to do after that is add the secret sauce to the mix. What's that? It's the way you make MSI Afterburner give you more than +100mV(and/or unlock voltage control for your card if it's locked). It's not very well known. And can be very difficult to make work. But when it works it's THE SHIT! There's some extra steps involved if you don't have an MSI card with full/unlocked voltage control. Which I haven't had to deal with(because I do). But I'm basically familiar with the process. I think I could figure out how to make it work with your card. But I'd have to plug it in to my system and mess with it myself. I really don't think I could talk you through it. If you had an MSI card that had full/unlocked voltage control I could tell you in less than 10 steps exactly how to make it work. But you don't so...I only have a rough idea. And all I can really do from here is tell you I believe it might be possible, point you in the right direction, and wish you good luck.

    These threads helped me begin to figure it out.

    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/third-party-graphics-card-hardware-database.399542/
    http://www.overclock.net/t/451259/tutorial-soft-voltmod-almost-any-gpu-without-hardmods
    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/msi-r9-280x-for-slazsh-question.384726/

    Google did the rest. I can now overvolt my card +200mV or more just using MSI AB.

    In a nutshell: You need to find out which voltage controller is on the card. If it's a CHL8214, CHL8228, CHL8266, CHL8318, IR3567B, IR3595A, L6788A, NCP4206, NCP81022, UP1637, UP6204, UP6208, UP6218, UP6262, UP6266, VT1165, or VT1556 you're in like Flynn. Best way to find out is to take the card apart and read the numbers off the chip itself, if you can't find it mentioned anywhere online(which I haven't been able to for your card, but maybe you'll have better luck). If you find out it's one of the ones listed above, you need to do the I2C dump to find out the controller location address. Then insert that info into the 3rd party hardware database. Then copy it into the MSI Afterburner root folder. If it isn't one of those controllers mentioned there you're pretty much out of luck. You can try setting it as a generic controller. But that's supposed to be very limited in terms of functionality and/or may not work at all. Then you have to do some other things to get AB to actually give you the extended voltage control range you've programmed it for. There's at least a couple different methods to do that. I could only make one work. If you get that far let me know, and I'll explain the rest.

    EDIT: Also some good stuff here.

    http://www.overclock.net/t/1395490/ati-hd-7950-7970-bios-mod-thread

    Including how to hex edit the BIOS for more volts. Though I couldn't get that figured out on my card(so don't ask me).
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  3. Malik Sajid

    Malik Sajid

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    Hay, bro! Thanks for replying. VBE7 seems to be a good bios editor but it just allow me to modify the volt to the max value coded in the BIOS (1.225) which I already can adjust it via MSI AB by unlocking voltage, what I need is to change that max value in the BIOS from 1.225v to 1.3v
    That refers us to the last link you've provided (hex editing) I think that what I was looking for, however it's a lot of English which it's not my mother tongue but I can deal with that. I will get myself familiar with hex editing first and I will tell what I can achieve with that method.

    Thanks for your time!
     
  4. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1 The Exiled Airman

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    There are limits no matter how much you modify. You may try a hardwire trick.

    I'd honestly save up money and grab a 570 or 580 and call it quits.
     
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  5. MrGenius

    MrGenius

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    Ok...so here's where we're at. AB is giving you voltage control. That's excellent. That means we're going to be able to convince AB to give you as much voltage as you want...and then some. And you DO NOT need to do ANYTHING to the BIOS to make it happen. What you need to do at this point is get the I2C bus location of the voltage controller. I think that should be very easy. Go to C:\Program Files (x86)\MSI Afterburner\Profiles. In the profiles folder there should be a .cfg file named something like VEN_1002&DEV_6819&SUBSYS_174BE221&REV_00&BUS_1&DEV_0&FN_0.cfg. You need to open that file with notepad. The first line should read something like [I2C_BUS_00_DEV_00], except there will be numbers indicating the actual bus number and device address. These will not be 00. For example mine reads [I2C_BUS_06_DEV_32]. The 2 numbers we need to know in this case are 06 and 32. So open that .cfg file and find out what those 2 numbers are for your card. Then we'll proceed. Or if you're not getting anywhere finding those numbers...I'll figure out how to get them some other way(since I think there's another way).
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  6. Malik Sajid

    Malik Sajid

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    What is the other way, sir? :D unfortunately I can't find that code!
     
  7. MrGenius

    MrGenius

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    Alright, I figured it out. It goes like this.

    1. Open Command Prompt, or Command Prompt as Admin
    2. Type(or copy and paste) the following command and press enter.
    Code:
    cd C:\Program Files (x86)\MSI Afterburner
    3. Then type(or copy and paste) the following command and press enter again.
    Code:
    MSIAfterburner.exe /i2cd
    4. You will see something like this.
    I2C dump.PNG

    5. And you will now have a Text Document named i2cdump in C:\Program Files (x86)\MSI Afterburner.
    6. Open that Text Document with notepad(just right click and open, or if you can only "open with" select notepad). Then copy all of the text and paste it in a post here so I can tell you what the numbers we need are.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  8. Malik Sajid

    Malik Sajid

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    Never mind, I'll try the hex editing method if it doesn't work I'll accept the current situation 1150MHz is not that bad! Thanks for your time I really appreciate that
     
  9. MrGenius

    MrGenius

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    What happened? You're giving up already? I'm still willing to give it a go. I'm thinking there's got to be a way to make it work. It might even be easier than I'm imagining. I might be overthinking it. Anyway...I'm going to keep digging around to see what I can find. I'm in too far at this point...I kinda need to know if it's possible or not.

    What happens when you save a clock profile in AB? I'm thinking it has to keep that in a .cfg file in the profiles folder. If it does, then that's the only other thing you need besides the i2cdump. The i2cdump is easy for me to get those 2 numbers from. That's not what had me worried. I was worried about trying to figure out what voltage controller it is with just that to go on. And how to edit the .oem2 file properly to make it work right. But I'm thinking that doesn't/might not matter now. If AB is letting you adjust voltages then there's already something in the .oem2 file that's letting it happen. So we shouldn't need to dig that deep into it. We just need those numbers from the i2cdump and a clock profile to edit. And we should be good to go.

    Wait...I just thought of something else. Open AB and click "Apply at Startup". Then check C:\Program Files (x86)\MSI Afterburner\Profiles. Is there anything in there besides MSIAfterburner.cfg? If not then where is it saving the startup profile? I don't expect you to know. But somebody has to. It's going to drive me crazy if I can't figure it out. Not really...but I seriously want to understand this.

    Anybody else wanna play? Free volts...you know you want 'em. :)

    Here's another way to do it. You need to know those I2C numbers, but it supposedly works without editing a profile. Though I've tried that and it didn't work for me.

    You also need to know the last value after /wi(I2C_Bus),(I2C_Dev)d,... <--- I have the list written down for those. Looks like I can't find the post I copied them from ATM. So let me type it out...

    40 = +400mV
    30 = +300mV
    20 = +200mV
    19 = +156mV
    18 = +150mV
    17 = +144mV
    16 = +138mV
    14 = +125mV
    12 = +113mV
    10 = +100mV(AB stock setting)
    0 = return to 0(+0mV)

    Here's another way to do it that I haven't tried.


    There's probably a lot of different ways. I only found one that worked for me. And that I'd recommend to anyone. Because I can prove it works. Here's a good place to start searching for other ways: https://www.google.com/search?safe=...1.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..6.1.45.6.pWakSeX5vac

    Hex editing is a frickin' nightmare. You get that figured out you come back and tell me how you did it. Then we'll be even Steven...as far as time spent trying to explain things.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  10. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1 The Exiled Airman

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    He barely understands what is written here as English is not his native language, what you explained which is easier than hex editing and finding the offset from using certain hex editors, is difficult for him, so he just quits.
     
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  11. Malik Sajid

    Malik Sajid

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    No, I didn't give up and I'm glad you didn't either! I just felt that I weigh you down so I preferred to mitigate the difficulties,
    But if you still want to play, I got nothing to lose.

    At the begenning I want to clear something up. Mayby I don't understand all of these thechnical detalis but I see that you are trying
    to manipulate MSI AB so it can exceed 'its voltage control limit' assuming that the GPU BIOS itself is allowing to go beyond 1.225v so
    MSI AB is doing the job at its finest!
    if my understanding is true, I think we are got nothing to do with any overclocking software.
    I have checked my BIOS via VBE7 and it seems that we are restricted by the sapphire BIOS limitations unlike ASUS DCII & VTX BIOS.

    BIOS.png

    I just wanted to menthion that so I don't waste your time. If i don't know what you are doing and I fell that I don't :D, forget all what I've said and let's continue our path

    I got the i2cdump file but I've watched this video
    and that guy's file seems to get more information than mine
    but anyway here's the file [attachments] and you know your stuff.

    as for the config files, I didn't say that they are not there but when I open them I can't find that first line you've refered to "[I2C_BUS_00_DEV_00]"
    cfgs.png
     

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    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  12. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1 The Exiled Airman

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    Combine your 2 posts together please, that keeps the moderators happy
     
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  13. MrGenius

    MrGenius

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    Well that sucks. The i2cdump is supposed to make this easy. Now I'm pretty much lost. There seems to be more that can be done with the I2C dump tool. But I really wouldn't even know where to begin with that. You'd have to keep throwing commands at it and hopefully come up with something. And I'm only vaguely familiar with the concept. So...like I said...I wouldn't even know where to tell you to start. You could try the examples found here. And see if you get lucky.
    Code:
    MSIAfterburner.exe /i2cd,70
    MSIAfterburner.exe /i2cd,72
    MSIAfterburner.exe /i2cd,74
    MSIAfterburner.exe /i2cd,76
    MSIAfterburner.exe /i2cd,,99
    MSIAfterburner.exe /ri3,20,99 /ri4,20,99
    Or read the entire thing and figure out which number to plug in where to find the damn thing. I could probably figure it out, but it might take me days of trial and error. And I'd need your card on hand. Which ain't happening. It would be easier if you already know which voltage controller we were looking for. If you decide you want to take the card apart and find the chip with the magic numbers on it let me know. If I knew what it was I think I could guide you in on the correct commands to locate it with the I2C tool. But without knowing...it's a shit ton of guess work.

    Anyway, I got the CheatEngine method to work. It's a bit of a pain in the ass. But it does appear to work. I'll have to mess around with it some more to give you any more info than that. Well...the one thing I can tell now is if you decide to try it watch out for the PUP(Potentially Unwanted Program) in the installer. You can choose not to include it in the install. Other than that it seems safe enough(don't take my word on that though, assume it might not be safe and take appropriate precautions, I've assumed the risk myself and judged it minimal in my book, though my experience with it is also minimal at this point).

    There's also this Rbby258 tool that might work too. But I couldn't get it to do anything. And the thread on it is 129 pages. Which I'm pretty sure the answer is probably in to make it work. But damn...that's a lot of reading. If you want to take a stab at it here it is.
    http://www.overclock.net/t/1398725/...ds-some-with-llc-one-tool-for-all-ab-versions
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  14. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1 The Exiled Airman

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  15. infrared

    infrared Moderator Staff Member

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    I've just had a quick read through the thread, I like what Mr Genius is trying to figure out, I'd done a similar thing with my gtx titans, the bios mod allowed up to 1.225v iirc, and there was a mod you could do to AB (specifically the beta version) that would then allow up to 1.3V. I can't remember off the top of my head so I'll have to look it up.

    I might be able to have a look at editing a bios, I'll do some reading tomorrow and see if I can figure something out. ;) Time for sleep now though.
     
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  16. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1 The Exiled Airman

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  17. MrGenius

    MrGenius

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    I'll give a brief tutorial on the Cheat Engine method. I've got most of the kinks worked out and it's not as hard as I thought is was going to be. There's some things I don't like about it. But it does work. Well...it works for me. Hopefully it will work for you too. We'll see...

    DISCLAIMER
    I take no responsibility for any damage you might cause while applying excessive overvoltage. You do this mod/tweak AT YOU'RE OWN RISK! I also make no claims as to the safety of using Cheat Engine 6.7. I don't know how safe it is. I don't know if it will cause any harm to your system to install and use it for these purposes. It seems to be safe and harmless so far as I can tell. I've had no problems using it. I would, however, advise that you make a backup of your system or at least create a system restore point before even installing it.

    Requirements
    Cheat Engine 6.7
    MSI Afterburner 4.2.0

    Procedure
    Install AB and CE. Be careful when installing CE so that you don't get stuck with PUPs(Potentially Unwanted Programs).

    Click where it says Click here.
    CEIns1.PNG

    Uncheck the boxes for programs you do not want to install. Then click next.
    CEIns2.PNG

    Download the attached MSIAfterburner.ct file below. Then go to Documents and place the MSIAfterburner.ct file in the My Cheat Tables folder.

    Open AB and CE. Apply clocks and voltages to your choosing in AB. I assume you want more than +100mV Core Voltage and will have that applied.
    AB+CE.PNG

    Click the computer w/ magnifying glass icon in CE. Then select and open MSI Afterburner from the Process List.
    AB+CE2.PNG

    Click Yes to load the associated MSIAfterburner.ct table.
    AB+CE3.PNG

    Click on the Core Voltage slider so the Apply checkmark becomes available. If just clicking on the slider doesn't work, move it back and forth.
    AB+CE4.1.png

    Click on the 100 under Value for Core Voltage1. Change value to 200(for +200mV) and click OK. Do the same for Core Voltage2.
    AB+CE5.PNG

    It will now look like this if you did it correctly.
    AB+CE6.PNG

    Click the Apply checkmark in AB. You will see the Core Voltage (mV) slider limit change from +100 to +200 and the Core Voltage display will show ~100 more mV has been applied(see how it went from 944mV to 1047mV). Don't worry about the Value of Core Voltage2 changing to 100(if it does), that doesn't matter.
    AB+CE7.PNG

    Congratulations! You just raised the AB Core Voltage limitation from +100mV to +200mV. You can use the same process to raise the Memory Voltage limit. And the Aux Voltage limit if you want to. You just need to find the Addresses for Aux Voltage first. I can explain how if required. If you want to use different values just plug them in instead. If you run into any problems just ask and I'll try to help you with it.

    When you're all done tweaking you can close CE. You MUST leave AB open or the voltage tweak(s) will stop working. Minimizing AB is fine. If you move the voltage slider(s) and hit Apply the voltage tweak(s) will be removed. If you don't want the OSD displayed in apps/games you need to open RTSS and turn it off.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
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  18. Malik Sajid

    Malik Sajid

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    Thanks for your concern, guys!
    Thanks, MrGenius your investment in time and energy was far beyond what I could have asked for! I've followed your instructions step-by-step but unfortunately I can't get it to work!
    My core voltage slider does break the wall but the actual value seems to be the same 1225v

    A7A.png

    I've noticed that Rbby got the same CE method mechanism and its developer says it can only work on any card that has these vddc's
    NCP4206
    CHL8228
    CHL8266
    UP6262...

    You also said something like that so I decided to take my gpu apart and I find that code on a chip 'NCP5395T', it's not one of them and I've read that it doesn't offer voltage control !
    I seem to have exhausted all the options here, right?
     
  19. MrGenius

    MrGenius

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    Yeah...this would be the end of the road as far as getting extended voltage control from AB. I assume you already tried TriXX and got the same results.

    At this point you would need to hex edit the BIOS. Or hardmod the card.

    I messed around a little bit with the BIOS from post #1. I used VBE7 to double the TDP Limit %, from 20 to 40, and the TDP (W), from 110 to 220. I also found what appears to be the voltage tables with a hex editor and changed the values of a few things. First I used VBE7 to change the original rom from performance state #0 VDDC 1210 to 1225. I then compared the original rom to the edited version. A bunch of hex values were changed to C9(or 9C? I still don't get if what you see is supposed to be reversed or not). I changed all those to FF. C9 = 201(9C = 156), FF = 255. All the original values were less than 201(and 156). So using deductive reasoning I figured increasing the values might raise the voltage some more. I have no real clue what I'm doing with the hex editor though, so I wouldn't expect it to work. If you want to try it I've attached it. Like I said though...don't expect much. It most likely won't brick the card. No promises no guarantees. If you do try it, let me know if it works.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
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  20. Malik Sajid

    Malik Sajid

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    I flashed it. It didn't brick the card but I still can't pass that voltage limit!
    You are doing everything in your power to make that happens, I trully respect and appreicate your efforts but I think I'm out of luck.
     
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  21. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1 The Exiled Airman

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    well you might have to consider @buildzoid if he even thinks it's even worth the wire modding that card
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
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  22. Malik Sajid

    Malik Sajid

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    @MrGenius, Good News! Finally I've managed to break that limit by Hex Editing! I've read some articles about hex to get myself familiar with it. Its reversed spell wasn't so confusing for me
    as my language is Right-To-Left so it was normal to read it in reversed order :D

    I loaded the two BIOSes in parallel to compare their scripts; ASUS BIOS which got 1.3v limit and my Sapphire BIOS. I started to transmit the voltage minimum and maximum value from decimal to hex so I can define the Voltage Tables
    Minimum value 800 --> 320 --reversed--> (2003)
    Maximum Sapphire value 1225 --> 4C9 --reversed--> (C904)
    Maximum ASUS value 1300 --> 514 --reversed--> (1405)

    I searched these two values and I could extract the ASUS voltage table easily
    asus.png

    I did the same thing with my original BIOS and here's its voltage table
    saphshex.png

    I replaced the whole sapphire table with the asus one then I corrected the checksum. I tried to open the modified BIOS with VBE7 but it unfortunately crashed! It seems I have broken the code sequence at that moment!
    why I did that? I understood that every voltage profile in the BIOS consits of "6 lentgh code" like 5E 05 AB 00 90 01, first two are the voltage value, second two are vrm signal, last two are ASIC. I was afraid of messing with the vrm signal especially that my voltage profiles contain irrational values such as 0vrm! probably because my gpu uses a NCP5395T voltage regulator which doesn't offer voltage control? I don't know, so I decided to play safe and shift the whole table, it was a bad move though! But in general you don't want to mess with ASIC values and as for the vrms you maybe need to set vrm signal to +1 this is supposed to reduce vdroop.

    After all this mess, I figured out why this problem has occured in the first place! It turns out that ASUS BIOS got more voltage profiles than the sapphire BIOS this means that ASUS voltage table is larger, I think that broke the rows order so I decided to let
    my BIOS voltage table as it is and just replace the last voltage profile (max volt) (C9 04) with the max volt profile from ASUS (14 05) and of course you can edit it manually. Now we are finished with the voltage table, but there is another max volt value in the BIOS (out of the voltage table) which is in this case (C9 04) find it 'ctrl+f' then change it to the value you have registered in the voltage table. TBH I don't know what does the second value stand for! but when were we modifying MSI AB with CE there were two Core Voltage1 & Core Voltage2 so maybe you can conclude something of this.

    I've saved the rom, corrected the checksum, opend it via VBE7 and finally I can get it to work! I also changed the power limit to 40% and tdp to 220 just like you did in the experimental BIOS and maybe someone need to use this formula
    OC Wattage = TDP * ( OC MHz / Stock MHz) * ( OC Vcore / Stock Vcore )^2 to calculate his new wattage after raising the voltage

    msiab.png VBE7.png

    Even Steven, bro? haha not really, I would have done nothing without your guidance and your great efforts! I'll do some benching and put my results later.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017 at 6:53 PM
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  23. infrared

    infrared Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry I wasn't able to help, pain is making any thinking difficult atm, and hex editing requires a clear head!
    Glad to see you got it figured out though, congrats! :D TY @MrGenius & @eidairaman1 for helping the OP :toast:
     
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  24. MrGenius

    MrGenius

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    I'd say so. Since I finally managed to figure out how to hex edit my own BIOS. And I probably wouldn't have done it without taking some inspiration from you. In fact I know I wouldn't have. I'd totally given up on it until this thread. And with the AB tweak working fine, the memory timings patched, and VBE7 doing the rest, I had no real need to bother with it. I'm glad I did though. Now I know how to do it the good old fashioned way.

    The way it worked for me is so different than what you did...I can't barely understand how you got it to work. It looks to me like you did it wrong. How is it working out for you? Are you getting the extra volts AB says you are? Because one thing I figured out messing with mine all day is if you only change just those 4 hex numbers all that does is tell monitoring software what it should display. What I mean is the 1300(14 05 hex) you set might be just the VID that monitoring software sees. You need to change another VID and some other hex values to get an actual change in voltage. At least that's how it works for me.

    I've got an idea of how to make it work for you if it isn't working right. I've got it all drawn up. So just ask if you need to.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017 at 8:30 PM
    Malik Sajid says thanks.
  25. OneMoar

    OneMoar There is Always Moar

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    that card does not have programmable voltage control 1.225 is all you are going to get without hardware mods thats as high as the vrm controller is programmed to allow (unless you know the super secret ic2 commands, that aren't publicly available and need to be issued directly to the chip with a ic2 serial adapter )

    cheat engine doesn't do a god dam thing except change the displayed value in ab (what in the name of Gaben made you think this was going to work is beyond me) if ab doesn't offer voltage control then you don't have it period end of discussion unwinder is a ass but he knows what hes doing

    you can hex edit that bios into the ground its not going todo anything except brick the card or prevent the drivers from loading you can tell the bios that the sky is made of penut-butter and msi ab will report it as such , that doesn't make it so



    here is how its done on a gigabyte card the process is very similar for your card
    [​IMG]

    finally its a 7850 1.3v or not its old its slow unless you are doing this for purely academic reasons its time to let it go

    you need to go watch some of @buildzoid 's videos so you understand how this stuff accually works
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017 at 7:11 AM
    Malik Sajid says thanks.

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