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Help needed with upgrading PC desktop from 2012

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#1
Here are specs:

CPU: i5-3570k at stock. I will install a custom cooler and overclock. All this time it had the intel stock cooler lol
GPU: gtx 680 lightning (replacing it)
OS SSD: Plextor 128gb
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint 1tb (this is starting to crap out, will replace it with new SSD)
RAM: Munchkin 2 times 4gb dual channel ddr3 1333mhz (will replace it)
Power supply: Seasonic x760 gold
Case: Cooler Master Trooper
1920*1080 resolution, 120hz monitor

Here are the new upgrades I plan on getting https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/pkZzcY.

I plan on playing games like Halo Wars 2, Gears 4, Gears 5, Forza, Skyrim with enb and tons of mods.

My questions:
  1. Will my cpu bottleneck the new gpu? I plan on putting all in game settings to max and won't be using v-sync unless I get over 120fps
  2. Should I buy ram faster than 1600?
  3. The custom cpu cooler is a big one, it might obstruct the PCI 3.0 x16 lane. If I use PCI 3.0 x8, will that be enough bandwidth for the rtx 2060?
  4. Suggestions?
I plan on keeping the PC another 5 years after these upgrades, at which point I'll do a completely new one.

Thank you for your help.
 
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#2
hi,

What mobo are you using ??
 
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#3
  1. Will my cpu bottleneck the new gpu? I plan on putting all in game settings to max and won't be using v-sync unless I get over 120fps
  2. Should I buy ram faster than 1600?
  3. The custom cpu cooler is a big one, it might obstruct the PCI 3.0 x16 lane. If I use PCI 3.0 x8, will that be enough bandwidth for the rtx 2060?
  4. Suggestions?
I plan on keeping the PC another 5 years after these upgrades, at which point I'll do a completely new one.

Thank you for your help.
If these are your specs for a 5-year plan, I would bump up the RAM specs. What's the max spec your board will support? Go with that. You can trim some cost from the custom cooler setup and get a packaged 240mm AiO system. That way you don't risk blocking your PCIeX16 lane.
 
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#4
hi,

What mobo are you using ??
Asus Maximus V Formula

If these are your specs for a 5-year plan, I would bump up the RAM specs. What's the max spec your board will support? Go with that. You can trim some cost from the custom cooler setup and get a packaged 240mm AiO system. That way you don't risk blocking your PCIeX16 lane.
I bought the Phanteks - PH-TC14PE_RD when I first bought the pc in 2012, but did not install it because it was too complicated for me. I'd rather not spend money on another cooler.
 
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#5
Okay, I didn't realize you already had the cooler. Are you 100% sure it will block your PCIe slot? Either way, I would still push for the highest spec RAM your wallet will allow. Your CPU and memory will likely be your bottlenecks after you upgrade the GPU (more so on late AAA game titles)
 
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#6
Okay, I didn't realize you already had the cooler. Are you 100% sure it will block your PCIe slot? Either way, I would still push for the highest spec RAM your wallet will allow. Your CPU and memory will likely be your bottlenecks after you upgrade the GPU (more so on late AAA game titles)
I'm not sure, but that thing is huge, like the Noctua Dh-14/15 type of huge, plus the GPU is a monster as well. That is why I am asking, in case they do not fit, would PCI 3.0 x8 be a bottleneck for the GPU?

As for the ram, Intel recommends a 1600mhz max on the ram, anymore and there might be instabilities. Also this is DDR3 ram, I'm not sure if higher speeds would make that big of a diff. I refuse to pay extra money for another 1-2% performance. Maximum ram speed, as per mobo manufacturer, would be 2800mhz ddr3 ram.
 
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#7
I'm not sure of the bottleneck question on the x8 lane. Not my strongest area of expertise. I know there was a somewhat recent article (mid/late last year?) that battled several GTX10 series cards across various PCIe configurations (SLI etc) that could answer the question. I am just not sure how close modern GPUs are getting to saturating the bandwidth yet.

EDIT
From the little bit of google-fu I just practiced, it seems the consensus of gamers say that modern GPUs still don't even saturate x8 on PCIe3.0 yet. So, you should be safe...

 
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#8
If it were me I’d go

CPU: Step upto a i7-3770K as newer games will benefit from the threads

Storage: Spend less and get 500-512GB SSD plus 2TB HDD

GPU: Step upto a RTX 2070 for better longevity
 
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#9
Your CPU will easily overclock to 4GHz - 4.5GHz.
The increase in speed will be noticeable in games, also RAM around the 2133MHz range is fine if you can find it cheap, otherwise 1600MHz will do.
Airflow is fairly critical when overclocking and using the system for prolonged periods of gaming, make sure you use decent fans in the correct orientation to dissipate heat efficiently.
 
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#10
I'm not sure of the bottleneck question on the x8 lane. Not my strongest area of expertise. I know there was a somewhat recent article (mid/late last year?) that battled several GTX10 series cards across various PCIe configurations (SLI etc) that could answer the question. I am just not sure how close modern GPUs are getting to saturating the bandwidth yet.

EDIT
From the little bit of google-fu I just practiced, it seems the consensus of gamers say that modern GPUs still don't even saturate x8 on PCIe3.0 yet. So, you should be safe...

I found a more recent video, and a Titan V that is also overclocked showed the following results:

Game used was Ashes of Singularity, dx12 on, max settings, 4k

x16 lane, avg fps of 37.6
1% low of 23.8
0.1% low of 23.5

x8 lane, avg fps of 37.6
1% low of 22.6
0.1% low of 21.6

I think that my gpu at 1920 by 1080 resolution will be just fine.

Your CPU will easily overclock to 4GHz - 4.5GHz.
The increase in speed will be noticeable in games, also RAM around the 2133MHz range is fine if you can find it cheap, otherwise 1600MHz will do.
Airflow is fairly critical when overclocking and using the system for prolonged periods of gaming, make sure you use decent fans in the correct orientation to dissipate heat efficiently.
Amazingly, ddr3 is almost non existent, but I did manage to find these https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/jx7wrH/gskill-memory-f32400c11d16gxm, although I don't think they'll clear the cooler
 
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#11
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#12
From experience, your CPU will bottleneck an RTX 2060 significantly. I made an upgrade from a very similar setup as this because it was simply not pleasant to play on. The 16GB RAM will make a minor difference, but it won't fix the lack of threads (4) and IPC / clocks to push high refresh.

Here is a set of benches I ran for Total War;'Warhammer 2. 3570k @ 4.2 Ghz versus my current CPU... With a GTX 1080 which is only a tiny bit faster than the 2060. I also play @ 1080p/120hz.

As you can see, a major bit of potential goes to waste with that GPU / CPU combo. A bit more RAM won't change it :) I would strongly suggest upgrading to a DDR4 based rig before you spend on GPU. High refresh rate gaming has steep requirements. In the first bench you also notice two major frame drops to 12 FPS - that's what a lack of threads will play like in 2019. Going with that for another 5 years simply isn't happening...

Another interesting bit is RAM usage: first rig had 8GB, new rig has 16GB, but as you can see RAM and pagefile use is identical and easily within 8GB. Of course, exceptions exist, but 8GB will be fine 'for now' until you upgrade to a DDR4 rig. Some food for thought ;)

Warhammer2_2018_01_12_20_33_18_954.jpg


Warhammer2_2018_01_24_22_11_42_480.jpg
 
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#13
From experience, your CPU will bottleneck an RTX 2060 significantly. I made an upgrade from a very similar setup as this because it was simply not pleasant to play on. The 16GB RAM will make a minor difference, but it won't fix the lack of threads (4) and IPC / clocks to push high refresh.

Here is a set of benches I ran for Total War;'Warhammer 2. 3570k @ 4.2 Ghz versus my current CPU... With a GTX 1080 which is only a tiny bit faster than the 2060. I also play @ 1080p/120hz.

As you can see, a major bit of potential goes to waste with that GPU / CPU combo. A bit more RAM won't change it :) I would strongly suggest upgrading to a DDR4 based rig before you spend on GPU. High refresh rate gaming has steep requirements. In the first bench you also notice two major frame drops to 12 FPS - that's what a lack of threads will play like in 2019. Going with that for another 5 years simply isn't happening...

Another interesting bit is RAM usage: first rig had 8GB, new rig has 16GB, but as you can see RAM and pagefile use is identical and easily within 8GB. Of course, exceptions exist, but 8GB will be fine 'for now' until you upgrade to a DDR4 rig. Some food for thought ;)

View attachment 117540

View attachment 117541
I don't have the money for a new rig, it would cost me 3000 CAD for something decent. If you think my cpu, even when overclocked, will hold the gpu back that much, I could buy a slower GPU, like rx 570 8gb?
 
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#14
AMD cards are cheaper than candy at the moment i checked newegg lowest price for 580 8gb is 170usd
 
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#15
I don't have the money for a new rig, it would cost me 3000 CAD for something decent. If you think my cpu, even when overclocked, will hold the gpu back that much, I could buy a slower GPU, like rx 570 8gb?
If budgets are tight, don't cheap out on parts, its not going to 'be cheaper' in the long run. The RTX 2060 is a very good value product and its performance is high enough to keep you going for years. So no I would not dial it back. The 570 is not bad, don't get me wrong. But its a card you will want to upgrade sooner rather than later for 120 fps/hz. So the scenario thén, is that you upgrade GPU now, and probably again after you upgrade the CPU/rest, because it won't give you the magical 100-120 fps gameplay you seek. The 2060 is however a perfect match for that, in terms of horsepower. I can perfectly run ultra / 100-120 fps in all but the heaviest games. With some tweaks/dialing down, literally everywhere. That does put the GPU on max usage though.

Rather: save yourself as much money as possible on this rig. That could mean going for 8GB instead of 16GB, and it could mean planning out a DDR4 based build right now to see how long you'd need to buy one. The SSD on the other hand is a sensible upgrade, it will pay off on any system and you can bring it to an upgraded build, just like the GPU, PSU and other storage.

Also, I mostly posted to give you insight on what to expect, and of what you can still improve. No need to do it all at once ;) Just make sure those dollars count, as in, provide maximum perf/dollar. And investing them in an old DDR3 build is certainly not the way to do that.

Have you considered the return you get from selling the 3570k+board+RAM? Should net you at least 150 bucks, thats a new board or RAM right there.

Last but not least: of course there ARE games that will run fine on the 3570k. Lighter games on the CPU, like shooters for example.
 
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#16
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#17
Here are specs:

CPU: i5-3570k at stock. I will install a custom cooler and overclock. All this time it had the intel stock cooler lol
GPU: gtx 680 lightning (replacing it)
OS SSD: Plextor 128gb
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint 1tb (this is starting to crap out, will replace it with new SSD)
RAM: Munchkin 2 times 4gb dual channel ddr3 1333mhz (will replace it)
Power supply: Seasonic x760 gold
Case: Cooler Master Trooper
1920*1080 resolution, 120hz monitor

Here are the new upgrades I plan on getting https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/pkZzcY.

I plan on playing games like Halo Wars 2, Gears 4, Gears 5, Forza, Skyrim with enb and tons of mods.

My questions:
  1. Will my cpu bottleneck the new gpu? I plan on putting all in game settings to max and won't be using v-sync unless I get over 120fps
  2. Should I buy ram faster than 1600?
  3. The custom cpu cooler is a big one, it might obstruct the PCI 3.0 x16 lane. If I use PCI 3.0 x8, will that be enough bandwidth for the rtx 2060?
  4. Suggestions?
I plan on keeping the PC another 5 years after these upgrades, at which point I'll do a completely new one.

Thank you for your help.
none of those games are demanding and your OC CPU (once OC) will handle them no problem. I would not invest in any DDR3 RAM as it's outdated and you won't see any major improvements from it in your current situation. The SSD is a no brainer but something like the AMD 580 is half the cost of the RTX 2060 and would give you similar real world performance in terms of graphics quality for those games (unless you must be playing at 120 FPS). If you don't plan on complete upgrades for another 5 years then the RTX 2060 will be outdated and in need of an update regardless in that time frame.
 
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#18
If budgets are tight, don't cheap out on parts, its not going to 'be cheaper' in the long run. The RTX 2060 is a very good value product and its performance is high enough to keep you going for years. So no I would not dial it back. The 570 is not bad, don't get me wrong. But its a card you will want to upgrade sooner rather than later for 120 fps/hz. So the scenario thén, is that you upgrade GPU now, and probably again after you upgrade the CPU/rest, because it won't give you the magical 100-120 fps gameplay you seek. The 2060 is however a perfect match for that, in terms of horsepower. I can perfectly run ultra / 100-120 fps in all but the heaviest games. With some tweaks/dialing down, literally everywhere. That does put the GPU on max usage though.

Rather: save yourself as much money as possible on this rig. That could mean going for 8GB instead of 16GB, and it could mean planning out a DDR4 based build right now to see how long you'd need to buy one. The SSD on the other hand is a sensible upgrade, it will pay off on any system and you can bring it to an upgraded build, just like the GPU, PSU and other storage.

Also, I mostly posted to give you insight on what to expect, and of what you can still improve. No need to do it all at once ;) Just make sure those dollars count, as in, provide maximum perf/dollar. And investing them in an old DDR3 build is certainly not the way to do that.

Have you considered the return you get from selling the 3570k+board+RAM? Should net you at least 150 bucks, thats a new board or RAM right there.

Last but not least: of course there ARE games that will run fine on the 3570k. Lighter games on the CPU, like shooters for example.
Where would I sell these parts and who would want to buy this ancient stuff anyway :D. I suppose I can wait for Zen 2 this summer and upgrade to that, and I would only need the CPU, mobo, ram and a new cooler.

I guess I won't upgrade the ram, and only get the gpu and ssd, and overclock the cpu.
 
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#19
Where would I sell these parts and who would want to buy this ancient stuff anyway :D. I suppose I can wait for Zen 2 this summer and upgrade to that, and I would only need the CPU, mobo, ram and a new cooler.

I guess I won't upgrade the ram, and only get the gpu and ssd, and overclock the cpu.
Good choices IMO including the Zen 2 idea. Where you would sell it? I could only tell you for my own country. But a local tech forum is a good start - or here on TPU!. Also don't underestimate the value of your cpu combo. It was pretty high end back then and it is still a very capable CPU. Mine is now in service as an HTPC... runs everything super fast and I can serve/decode a stream for a home server on it at the same time.
 

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#20
I don't have the money for a new rig, it would cost me 3000 CAD for something decent. If you think my cpu, even when overclocked, will hold the gpu back that much, I could buy a slower GPU, like rx 570 8gb?
If you are bound to that platform, then I might suggest in the alternative finding an i7-3770k to replace the 3570k. It can overclock over 4GHz easily and have all 8 threads available. It will be less of a GPU restricting CPU.

A quick check of eBay worldwide sold (buy it now) 3770k shows they have sold recently between $160 and $185 (U.S. Dollars).
 
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#21
Decent b450mobo 80-95 usd
cpu 2600 170usd
8gb ddr4 45 usd
rx580 170usd

Total 600cad
 
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#22
It is my understanding that if you put all video settings at max, the gpu is used more and more, thus reducing any bottlenecks. For games that support it, I could even use the scaling setting, where it renders the game at 2k or 4k, and then downsamples to my resolution, which looks a lot better than native full hd, but not as good as native 2k or 4k. Also, if I lock the monitor at 60hz, then than should eliminate any cpu bottleneck I might have, considering I don't plan on playing any cpu intensive games like Battlefield, battle royale games etc.

Alright, that's it then. I have decided on keeping the rtx 2060 (or wait and see if navi is any better) and ssd, and will wait on zen 2. A nice 3600 or 3600x, with 16gb ddr4 (especially since prices are set to fall a further 30% in Q2) plus a mobo and cpu cooler. I see no reason to upgrade the psu or case.
 
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#23
If you are bound to that platform, then I might suggest in the alternative finding an i7-3770k to replace the 3570k. It can overclock over 4GHz easily and have all 8 threads available. It will be less of a GPU restricting CPU.

A quick check of eBay worldwide sold (buy it now) 3770k shows they have sold recently between $160 and $185 (U.S. Dollars).
Risky thing buying a used k-chip never know how much it's been tortured but yeah moving to i7 will give a nice performance pump but personally i wouldn't pay more than 100 for it.

I'm a simple man with one rule never buy a used AMD card :).
 
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#24
I changed my mind.

https://www.gpucheck.com/en-usd/com...ghz/ultra-vs-ultra-vs-ultra-vs-ultra-vs-ultra

I will dial it down to a 1660 ti based on these comparisons. The less than 10 extra fps is not worth the 130$ extra in my book. Overclocking the cpu will give me more fps and it will bottleneck the gpu less, maybe around 10-15% based on the above results instead of 20%. This is only a stop gap upgrade anyway, until I get the $ for a completely new build (including upgrading the resolution to 2560 by 1440 at least). Maybe around 2021-2022, 5nm, intel/nvidia/amd for gpu and amd/intel for cpu, much better competition across the board.
 
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#25
AMD cards are cheaper than candy at the moment i checked newegg lowest price for 580 8gb is 170usd
I'm a simple man with one rule never buy a used AMD card :).
Seriously, don't limit yourself like that. As long as you buy from sellers with good ratings, you're very unlikely to have problems. I buy used all the time for my budget minded clients and rarely do we have problems.

I will dial it down to a 1660 ti based on these comparisons.
Give a moment's consideration here;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gigabyte-G...o-Graphics-Card-GV-N1080TTOC-8GD/202613344293
There's also this one;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-GeForce-GTX-1080-8GB-Turbo-Graphics-Card-TURBO-GTX1080-8G/192844647072
Both are for $330 shipped. Yes they're used, but from a reputable seller and are covered by Ebay's guaranty. You will be much happier with one of those. The 1080 kicks the 1660ti in the jewels.
 
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