• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Help- Undervolting and Helios 300 10th gen

nathashakck

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
8 (0.10/day)
Hi Guys

I am absolute beginner to undervolt. But i go ahead and read some guides and some suggestions and i have undervolt with following settings. Can someone please look into this and tell me if i done it correctly.

01. Set voltage offset to -80.1mV
02. Enable speedshift and limit the turbo to 36 max.

@unclewebb Can you pleasee help me?
 

Attachments

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
2,214 (0.49/day)
Speed Shift Max should be set to 50, your maximum multiplier. If you want or need to limit your CPU speed, I would reduce the Turbo Ratio Limits instead. The Turbo Ratio Limits can be set to different values for different profiles. You can set up one full speed profile with these limits at their default settings and then you can create a reduced heat profile with these limits set lower.

Another way to limit the amount of heat your CPU is putting out is to lower the turbo power limits. If your cooling is not adequate and cannot handle your CPU running long term at 70W, you should not set your long term power limit to 70W. Same with the short power limit that you have set to 107W. The default TDP limit for your CPU is 45W. When you increase the power limits, yes you get more performance but you also get way more heat. The extra performance will not last long if it causes the CPU to start thermal throttling.

Your voltages are OK. Many people get better results by setting the core offset voltage to a much bigger number compared to the cache. With previous CPUs like the 8750H and 9750H, the cache was usually good for -125 mV and the core could go as high as -200 mV. Use Cinebench R20 and do lots of testing. Do not just jump to these values or any values that you read about on the internet. Slowly work your way towards these values and see if stability is a problem. You do not have to come up with the perfect voltage settings in one day. Take your time so if you do start having stability problems, you can easily go back to your previous stable settings.

In the Options window, the PROCHOT Offset variable controls your maximum CPU temperature before throttling starts. The Intel default is 0. It looks like this is set to 8 at the moment. This reduces maximum temperatures but it also reduces maximum performance. Have a look in the Options window. On the right hand side, is there a lock icon above this setting? If you do not see a lock, I would try setting this to 3 instead of 8. This will allow your CPU to start thermal throttling at 97°C instead of 92°C. This will give you some more headroom before thermal throttling begins. You can also try using 0. This will allow your CPU to thermal throttle at the Intel recommended value of 100°C. Many manufacturers are being too conservative with this setting.

There is probably no need to check the Speed Shift EPP option. Windows 10 does a good job adjusting EPP. Clear this box, open up the FIVR window and monitor what EPP value the CPU is using. Switch Windows profiles by moving the Windows slider from right to left to right. What EPP values does Windows use? If this is OK then no need to check or use the Speed Shift EPP value in ThrottleStop. If you decide that you want ThrottleStop to manage EPP, for performance, I prefer using 80 instead of 128. Click on this number and you can edit this value in ThrottleStop.
 

nathashakck

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
8 (0.10/day)
Speed Shift Max should be set to 50, your maximum multiplier. If you want or need to limit your CPU speed, I would reduce the Turbo Ratio Limits instead. The Turbo Ratio Limits can be set to different values for different profiles. You can set up one full speed profile with these limits at their default settings and then you can create a reduced heat profile with these limits set lower.
Thank you very much for take your precious time to reply to me. I did my best to adjust the settings as you advised. I have changed the the turbo ratio limits to 36 on all cores.

Another way to limit the amount of heat your CPU is putting out is to lower the turbo power limits. If your cooling is not adequate and cannot handle your CPU running long term at 70W, you should not set your long term power limit to 70W. Same with the short power limit that you have set to 107W. The default TDP limit for your CPU is 45W. When you increase the power limits, yes you get more performance but you also get way more heat. The extra performance will not last long if it causes the CPU to start thermal throttling.
I am not sure how to do this one. So i change the turbo boost long power max to 60W and short power max to 100w. I have attached a photo of the settings. Can i go more lower?

Your voltages are OK. Many people get better results by setting the core offset voltage to a much bigger number compared to the cache. With previous CPUs like the 8750H and 9750H, the cache was usually good for -125 mV and the core could go as high as -200 mV. Use Cinebench R20 and do lots of testing. Do not just jump to these values or any values that you read about on the internet. Slowly work your way towards these values and see if stability is a problem. You do not have to come up with the perfect voltage settings in one day. Take your time so if you do start having stability problems, you can easily go back to your previous stable settings.
I actually started with -100mv but it gives BSOD . So i reduce to 90 and then 80. which i found somewhat stable. But i haven't check with cinebench So as you advised i will try to play around more to see if i can increase more.

In the Options window, the PROCHOT Offset variable controls your maximum CPU temperature before throttling starts. The Intel default is 0. It looks like this is set to 8 at the moment. This reduces maximum temperatures but it also reduces maximum performance. Have a look in the Options window. On the right hand side, is there a lock icon above this setting? If you do not see a lock, I would try setting this to 3 instead of 8. This will allow your CPU to start thermal throttling at 97°C instead of 92°C. This will give you some more headroom before thermal throttling begins. You can also try using 0. This will allow your CPU to thermal throttle at the Intel recommended value of 100°C. Many manufacturers are being too conservative with this setting.
Yap it was changeable so i change the setting to 3. So now i i see that throattling limit at 97C

There is probably no need to check the Speed Shift EPP option. Windows 10 does a good job adjusting EPP. Clear this box, open up the FIVR window and monitor what EPP value the CPU is using. Switch Windows profiles by moving the Windows slider from right to left to right. What EPP values does Windows use? If this is OK then no need to check or use the Speed Shift EPP value in ThrottleStop. If you decide that you want ThrottleStop to manage EPP, for performance, I prefer using 80 instead of 128. Click on this number and you can edit this value in ThrottleStop.
I decided to not play with the Speed Shift EPP. If OS can do it . he probably can do much better job that me.

Thank you so much again for you to take your time to reply me. I have attached modified changes to me as well. I hope this looks fine now. My laptop is in games constantly hitting mid 80es to 90 when play with turbo boost. So i am bit worried. thanks again.
FIVRv2.PNG
TPLv2.PNG
 
Joined
May 7, 2020
Messages
88 (0.59/day)
I tried. but after -90mv , it goes to BSOD . i might able to increase to 85mv i think.
There are two values - CPU Core and CPU Cache. In the older tutorials they were supposed to be equal. In more recent CPUs ratio of 2:1 works better. I doubt increasing CPU Core would cause any instability even if set to -500. The CPU just ignores it. The one that makes troubles is the CPU Cache. Leave that at where it gives you no errors or BSOD.
 

nathashakck

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
8 (0.10/day)
There are two values - CPU Core and CPU Cache. In the older tutorials they were supposed to be equal. In more recent CPUs ratio of 2:1 works better. I doubt increasing CPU Core would cause any instability even if set to -500. The CPU just ignores it. The one that makes troubles is the CPU Cache. Leave that at where it gives you no errors or BSOD.
that is something new for me. Thank you for the information. I have a small doubt . forgive me for my ignorance but can you please tell me what happens when we reduce CPU Core only? as you said correctly. all the tutorials they are emphasizing on the fact that this need to be equal.
 
Joined
May 7, 2020
Messages
88 (0.59/day)
that is something new for me. Thank you for the information. I have a small doubt . forgive me for my ignorance but can you please tell me what happens when we reduce CPU Core only? as you said correctly. all the tutorials they are emphasizing on the fact that this need to be equal.
Without undervolting CPU Cache there would be not enough benefit.
 

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
2,214 (0.49/day)
@nathashakck - The cache voltage has always been the limiting factor. Many of the 8th and 9th Gen mobile CPUs were OK with the cache at -125 mV. Your 10th Gen is much different. Do some Cinebench R20 testing. It is a really good way to test using different voltages. Start by setting both voltages equally for a baseline and then try to increase only the core offset voltage.

-75 mV core and -75 mV cache
-100 mV core and -75 mV cache
-125 mV core and -75 mV cache
-150 mV core and -75 mV cache

With previous generation CPUs, after reaching a 2:1 ratio, there was no benefit going any further. Some Cinebench R20 testing can help you decide if there is any benefit to doing this. If you are able to do some consistent and repeatable testing and you see a benefit during this test, you will also see a benefit in many modern games. All those internet guides that tell you that you must set these voltages equally are wrong. Here is an example of some testing a user did for me to prove this.




Never blindly follow any internet advice, even my advice. Always do some thorough testing. When you see a recommendation, prove to yourself that it is a benefit to your computer. Either increased performance or decreased temperatures. If you cannot measure a benefit then there is no need to do it.

When you are setting your power limits, ask yourself a question. Can my CPU cooling handle my CPU running at 100W for 28 seconds? The answer is no. Can your cooling handle running at 80W for 28 seconds? Probably not. For 4 or 8 seconds? Maybe. That is how the power limits work. The CPU is allowed to run at the short power limit for a short period of time, approximately the turbo time limit amount of time and then the CPU is throttled so it runs at the long term power limit indefinitely after that, unless it overheats. Then it will thermal throttle instead of power limit throttle. Does this make sense? Many guides take the time limit and jack it up to 3,000,000+ seconds which is usually a quick sign that they have no idea what this adjustment is designed to control. Laptop cooling generally sucks. Maybe the default 28 second time interval is too much and should be reduced.

You do not have to get all technical setting these power limits. Your cooling is not great so if these power limits are set too high, your CPU will thermal throttle to protect itself from damage. The power limits and being able to reduce your CPU MHz (turbo ratios) just give you a couple of ways to control the amount of heat your CPU is putting out.

Turn on the log file option and go play a game for 15 minutes or longer. When finished, exit the game and exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize your log file. It will be in the ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach it to your next post if you want me to have a look at it.

Edit - If you are happy with your PROCHOT Offset setting, use the Lock PROCHOT Offset option.
 
Last edited:

nathashakck

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
8 (0.10/day)
@nathashakck - The cache voltage has always been the limiting factor. Many of the 8th and 9th Gen mobile CPUs were OK with the cache at -125 mV. Your 10th Gen is much different. Do some Cinebench R20 testing. It is a really good way to test using different voltages. Start by setting both voltages equally for a baseline and then try to increase only the core offset voltage.

-75 mV core and -75 mV cache
-100 mV core and -75 mV cache
-125 mV core and -75 mV cache
-150 mV core and -75 mV cache

With previous generation CPUs, after reaching a 2:1 ratio, there was no benefit going any further. Some Cinebench R20 testing can help you decide if there is any benefit to doing this. If you are able to do some consistent and repeatable testing and you see a benefit during this test, you will also see a benefit in many modern games. All those internet guides that tell you that you must set these voltages equally are wrong. Here is an example of some testing a user did for me to prove this.




Never blindly follow any internet advice, even my advice. Always do some thorough testing. When you see a recommendation, prove to yourself that it is a benefit to your computer. Either increased performance or decreased temperatures. If you cannot measure a benefit then there is no need to do it.

When you are setting your power limits, ask yourself a question. Can my CPU cooling handle my CPU running at 100W for 28 seconds? The answer is no. Can your cooling handle running at 80W for 28 seconds? Probably not. For 4 or 8 seconds? Maybe. That is how the power limits work. The CPU is allowed to run at the short power limit for a short period of time, approximately the turbo time limit amount of time and then the CPU is throttled so it runs at the long term power limit indefinitely after that, unless it overheats. Then it will thermal throttle instead of power limit throttle. Does this make sense? Many guides take the time limit and jack it up to 3,000,000+ seconds which is usually a quick sign that they have no idea what this adjustment is designed to control. Laptop cooling generally sucks. Maybe the default 28 second time interval is too much and should be reduced.

You do not have to get all technical setting these power limits. Your cooling is not great so if these power limits are set too high, your CPU will thermal throttle to protect itself from damage. The power limits and being able to reduce your CPU MHz (turbo ratios) just give you a couple of ways to control the amount of heat your CPU is putting out.

Turn on the log file option and go play a game for 15 minutes or longer. When finished, exit the game and exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize your log file. It will be in the ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach it to your next post if you want me to have a look at it.

Edit - If you are happy with your PROCHOT Offset setting, use the Lock PROCHOT Offset option.
Hi @unclewebb

Thank you very much again for your help. I really appreciate it. I have learned a lot from you.

So as you suggested, i have decrease the voltage offset more a little bit but i think i need to sit and run Cinebench more and more to fine tune the ideal values for me. So after any increase from here onward i will do with much more testing. If i understood correctly short burst of boost is when the turbo short power max gonna hit. after that its sitting at turbo long power limit unless if thermal throttled.

So i played No man's sky with highest settings (This is the only game i have at the moment :( ) . once with Helios "Turbo" (Overclock the GPU to 90w and fans to max) and without turbo on for around 15 to 20 minutes. Please be kind enough to have a look at them. My FPS is sitting at 110 for turbo and for non turbo it is sitting at 100 to 90 fps.

Again thank you very much for your help and support. Really appreciate it.

My ambient temperature is around 27 to 29 C
Multipliers are maxed to 36
Voltage offset - core -105mv
voltage offset - cache -80mv
 

Attachments

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
2,214 (0.49/day)
Your temperatures are great. There does not seem to be any reason to slow your CPU down so much. Live a little. Increase your turbo ratios 4 or 5 notches. Use Turbo Boost. Intel CPUs run hot. It is not a problem. Intel and Acer are aware of this. I see no reason to run your CPU at such a conservative speed. Your voltage settings are helping to keep your temps at a reasonable level.
 

nathashakck

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
8 (0.10/day)
Your temperatures are great. There does not seem to be any reason to slow your CPU down so much. Live a little. Increase your turbo ratios 4 or 5 notches. Use Turbo Boost. Intel CPUs run hot. It is not a problem. Intel and Acer are aware of this. I see no reason to run your CPU at such a conservative speed. Your voltage settings are helping to keep your temps at a reasonable level.
Hi Unclewebb.

Thanks you so much again. So i have installed Assassins creed odyssey to see how is the performance. i started with turbos to 38 max and it start hitting 88 to 90 in max performance. So i lowered the turbos again for 36. Now actually its running around 82 average and occasional spike to 86. I also attached a logs for this. is 82 is okay temperature? can i go few multipliers up and keep it around 88 area? Or should i stick to this or reduce the turbo more to keep it bellow 82. Thanks again for your replies.
 

Attachments

Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
168 (1.17/day)
Hi Unclewebb.

Thanks you so much again. So i have installed Assassins creed odyssey to see how is the performance. i started with turbos to 38 max and it start hitting 88 to 90 in max performance. So i lowered the turbos again for 36. Now actually its running around 82 average and occasional spike to 86. I also attached a logs for this. is 82 is okay temperature? can i go few multipliers up and keep it around 88 area? Or should i stick to this or reduce the turbo more to keep it bellow 82. Thanks again for your replies.
Everything under 100 is ok.
 

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
2,214 (0.49/day)
So i lowered the turbos again for 36.
There is no reason to do this. Intel specifically states that any temperature under 100°C is a "safe operating temperature". If an Intel CPU ever reaches this maximum temperature, it is designed to thermal throttle and slow down so it does not exceed this temperature. Running your CPU at 80°C is no safer than running it at 90°C. Your CPU was designed so that it can run reliably for a long, long time at either temperature.
 
Top