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Help undervolting i7 8750h Throttlestop

masCh

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Joined
Jul 14, 2022
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Hi @unclewebb , Thanks for all your support. I have been reading and trying to understand how it all works. I might have got most of it.

I'm running an Asus GM501 with intel i7 8750H. It often runs into thermal problems.
I used to be able to undervolt this laptop, but I tried again and it says the voltages are locked under FIVR. I understand that's a bios thing but I have no idea if it's possible to roll back to a working bios. I doubt so. And I don't quite understand the risks if I do successfully rollback the bios anyway.

So I downloaded the R20 from your link above and have run it. I only get 2150 score (you said that I should get a score of at least 3000) from it. I've attached my log.
I'm also attaching my TPL screen and the FIVR screen.

I don't see if I could make any further improvements, I've just repasted my CPU last weekend and have cleaned the fans and the fins. Do you see anything that I could improve on?

Thanks in advance, I appreciate all that you do.

1657809649568.png1657809805566.png
 

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unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
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When the BIOS locks out CPU voltage control, you are very limited in what you can do. I am not familiar with your laptop. Do a Google search for your specific laptop model. Some user somewhere has likely installed a previous BIOS version so they could restore voltage control. Is this a 100% safe thing to do? Probably not.

And I don't quite understand the risks
The risks are that something could go wrong and you end up with a brick. This is called bricking your laptop. Can you afford to lose everything on your laptop? If you do not know how to repair a laptop when a BIOS flash goes wrong then you need to think twice before deciding to do anything.

2150 score
That is a particularly bad score. When your computer is idle at the desktop, before you run Cinebench, what does ThrottleStop report for C0%? It should be less than 1% when a computer is idle. 0.5% would be even better. If your computer is reporting 10% then you have too much stuff running in the background and your benchmark scores will always be poor. Check the Task Manager Details tab for some clues if you have high idle C0% issues. Most people install junk on their computer with no regards to how it slows their computer down.

The log file shows that your CPU heats up and starts thermal throttling and slows down. Your computer is going to heat soak if you run it at full load for a long period of time. The cooling system cannot keep up. It will have to run slower and slower to keep on the safe side of the thermal throttling temperature. Without being able to reduce voltage, there is not much you can do about this. Lots of Asus laptops have this same problem. They look good but not enough thought was put into proper thermal management.

What thermal paste did you use? Some thermal pastes are horrible in laptops and can pump out in as little as a week or two. The popular MX-4 has caused issues like this for some users.

As for your settings, why did you choose 3 million plus seconds for your turbo time limit? That is something like 40 days of full turbo boost. Your laptop cooling system cannot handle that so that setting makes no sense. At 65W, your CPU starts thermal throttling within a few seconds. Long term, the cooling system cannot handle 50W. Based on that, setting PL1 to 45W or 50W and PL2 to 60W and setting the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds makes sense. That is already more than your cooling system can handle.

I would set all of the PP0 Power Limit stuff back to default settings. Clear the check mark out of the Lock box at the bottom right. Clear the PP0 Power Limit box and clear the Clamp box at the bottom near this setting. Set this back to the default value of 0. Press OK and do a full reboot so your CPU can reset itself. Hold the Shift key down on the keyboard when selecting the Restart option in the Windows menu.

Use ThrottleStop 9.5.
 

masCh

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When the BIOS locks out CPU voltage control, you are very limited in what you can do. I am not familiar with your laptop. Do a Google search for your specific laptop model. Some user somewhere has likely installed a previous BIOS version so they could restore voltage control. Is this a 100% safe thing to do? Probably not.


The risks are that something could go wrong and you end up with a brick. This is called bricking your laptop. Can you afford to lose everything on your laptop? If you do not know how to repair a laptop when a BIOS flash goes wrong then you need to think twice before deciding to do anything.


That is a particularly bad score. When your computer is idle at the desktop, before you run Cinebench, what does ThrottleStop report for C0%? It should be less than 1% when a computer is idle. 0.5% would be even better. If your computer is reporting 10% then you have too much stuff running in the background and your benchmark scores will always be poor. Check the Task Manager Details tab for some clues if you have high idle C0% issues. Most people install junk on their computer with no regards to how it slows their computer down.

The log file shows that your CPU heats up and starts thermal throttling and slows down. Your computer is going to heat soak if you run it at full load for a long period of time. The cooling system cannot keep up. It will have to run slower and slower to keep on the safe side of the thermal throttling temperature. Without being able to reduce voltage, there is not much you can do about this. Lots of Asus laptops have this same problem. They look good but not enough thought was put into proper thermal management.

What thermal paste did you use? Some thermal pastes are horrible in laptops and can pump out in as little as a week or two. The popular MX-4 has caused issues like this for some users.

As for your settings, why did you choose 3 million plus seconds for your turbo time limit? That is something like 40 days of full turbo boost. Your laptop cooling system cannot handle that so that setting makes no sense. At 65W, your CPU starts thermal throttling within a few seconds. Long term, the cooling system cannot handle 50W. Based on that, setting PL1 to 45W or 50W and PL2 to 60W and setting the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds makes sense. That is already more than your cooling system can handle.

I would set all of the PP0 Power Limit stuff back to default settings. Clear the check mark out of the Lock box at the bottom right. Clear the PP0 Power Limit box and clear the Clamp box at the bottom near this setting. Set this back to the default value of 0. Press OK and do a full reboot so your CPU can reset itself. Hold the Shift key down on the keyboard when selecting the Restart option in the Windows menu.

Use ThrottleStop 9.5.

Thank you!

1. Yes my C0% is between 2% to 5%. I'll fix it
2. Yeah I bought Arctic MX4 and applied it. Maybe I can try do it again with a different one.
3. I didn't know the figure meant seconds. I thought it was just a parameter I didn't understand, so I set it to max. Thanks for explaining it, I have now set it to say 8. The PL2 is now set to 60 instead of 65.
4. I've done the PP0 Power Limit stuff too. THanks for the clear instructions - I didn't know what the check boxes mean (lock, clamp) but I understood your instructions.

I'll let you know if things improve after redoing the thermal paste.

EDIT: Playing around with parameters

I have narrowed it down to
PL1 54W, PL2 65W, Turbo Time Limit 32
This gives me a score of 2498 pts in R20,with most of the Limit Reasons appearing to be PL1. Delta-T offset is 2C under Options.

I could make it go to 2510 if I set Turbo Time Limit higher and change delta-T offset to 1C. Here the limit reasons are always Thermal (and EDP Other Ring).
This higher setting I'd rather not keep until I have my cooling issues sorted.
 
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3normousz

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Hi @unclewebb I'm quite new to this software and I don't know where to start. I tried using settings from previous comments and all of them seem to not working for me. Anyway, I use default settings and use cpu-z in order to make my cpu 100% load. Could you please guide me how to lower temp for my laptop ? It's Dell G3 3579 with i7-8750H cpu. I also repasted my thermalpaste week ago (Mx-4). Thanks in advance.
 

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masCh

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Hi @unclewebb I'm quite new to this software and I don't know where to start. I tried using settings from previous comments and all of them seem to not working for me. Anyway, I use default settings and use cpu-z in order to make my cpu 100% load. Could you please guide me how to lower temp for my laptop ? It's Dell G3 3579 with i7-8750H cpu. I also repasted my thermalpaste week ago (Mx-4). Thanks in advance.
Can you post up screenshots of your settings as well? Main page, FIVR page, TPL page and Options page
 

3normousz

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Can you post up screenshots of your settings as well? Main page, FIVR page, TPL page and Options page

Sorry, I forgot to put these in the first place.
 

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unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
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Here is what can happen to some popular thermal pastes when used direct die in a laptop.


Your FIVR CPU voltage controls are all locked by the BIOS so there is not much you can do. When you have a 6 core CPU in a laptop and you cannot lower the voltage, it is going to run hot. Most laptops will overheat, thermal throttle and this reduces performance. The only way to fix this problem is to find a way to improve cooling.

The procedure to restore CPU voltage control in Dell laptops is complicated by doable. Do lots of Google research before considering doing this.

 
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Ohio
System Name Powerspec 1520 Gaming Laptop (Clevo rebadge)
Processor i7 8750H
Motherboard eh?
Cooling An old CoolerMaster Laptop Cooler
Memory 32gb of mismatched madness, 16gb is crucial
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 (not Max-Q)
Storage 500gb WD Black NVME Boot, 2TB Samsung 860 Evo, 1TB Inland NVME storage drive
Display(s) Built in + AOC 24G2
Audio Device(s) Xiberia headphones
Mouse Steelseries Rival 100
Looks like this thread for 8750Hs is still going, so I'll make my inaugural post (under this username, anyway) and ask for what possible help I could get- I've tried to glean information as well as I can get but I still find that I don't understand everything as well as I would like, but luckily Kevin shares not only his programming and PC thermal knowledge, but also his time with us, so here we are.

What I'm running into is this: I've got a MicroCenter Powerspec 1520 with a 8750H and an RTX2070 in it. Luckily, it was sourced from Clevo and rebadged, but of course it has a crappy BIOS thrown on top of it. I've had this problem happen once before but I'm not quite sure what ultimately fixed it - after a while, or something, my system would not run at max turbo anymore, as it had been previously. I was running at high performance settings in Windows 10, Max CPU State of 100%, etc. I made sure that there was nothing set incorrectly in the Clevo Control Center software. This most recent time, it happened after a BSOD. The rub is that I wasn't running logs prior to the incident. I started late last night, which is why I have 2 logs to attach. I'm running into a strange issue - PL2 is running maxed constantly. The log for yesterday will show a few intermittent times where it was not, and that was when I was dinking around with different profiles to see if there was any sort of change using power saving, etc. There are also times on the logs where I fired up World of Warcraft as well. I even ran Cinebench R23, and that is what was running when I took my screenshot of the Main window/TPL/Limits windows. As you can see, the temps are nowhere near throttling level for this CPU. The GPU wasn't up there either. And the package wattage wasn't even approaching the 45w range.

Could the BSOD have knocked something wonky that would be causing it to read the PL2 as max and thus throttle it that way? It was bouncing up and down with some turbo action in Wow but not doing constant turbo like it was a few days ago. I even turned down the undervolt to the safer range of -125, but it was only at like -145 previously on the core with -125 on the cache.

Please look over my logs and screenshots and advise if there is anything you can think of that might be causing this issue?
 

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unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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Messages
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@djeboe
You have a power limit throttling problem. The MSR and MMIO power limits that ThrottleStop has access to are being ignored. There is a third set of turbo power limits controlled by an embedded controller (EC) that ThrottleStop does not have access to. It is likely these power limits are being set too low which is causing this problem. The CPU is being throttled down to its base frequency which is a multiplier of 22.00. If your laptop used to work properly then maybe an onboard sensor has failed and it is forcing your computer to run in low power mode.

Have a look in the Device Manager for either the Intel Dynamic Turning driver or the Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework driver. I would uninstall this driver and do whatever is necessary to make sure it is not re-installed after you reboot. Use Google to learn more about this issue.

I would also uninstall the Clevo Control Center software. You might need this software for fan control but to try and troubleshoot this problem, any software like this needs to be removed.

The Nvidia GPU being active might be what triggers low power mode. You could try uninstalling the Nvidia GPU driver. Just run the default Microsoft driver for testing purposes to see if this allows the CPU to go up to full power. You can also try installing the original Nvidia driver that has been tested with your laptop.

There might be an easy fix or if a sensor has gone bad, there might not be any practical fix. Your ThrottleStop settings are OK. The offset voltage and power limits are set correctly. ThrottleStop cannot be used to fix the throttling problem you are having.

Use ThrottleStop 9.5
 
Joined
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Messages
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System Name PowerSpec 1720 (Clevo PB70EF-G)
Processor i7-8750H (UV)
Motherboard PB70EF-G
Cooling Air
Memory 32GB 3000MHz 16-18-18-36 1T (OC)
Video Card(s) 115W RTX 2070 8GB GDDR6 (OC/UV)
Storage 500GB WD Black SN700 NVME, 1TB Samsung 980
Display(s) 144Hz G-Sync 17.3" IPS
Case PowerSpec
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster Pro-Gaming X
Power Supply 230W
Mouse Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard Redragon K556/DITI K585
Software M$ Windows 10 Pro, Throttle Stop 9.4.3, MSi Afterburner, ParkControl
Benchmark Scores CB R23 - 8173/1105, CB R20 - 3172, Fire Strike - 18140, Time Spy - 8287
@djeboe I have essentially the same laptop (17" version, 1720) and in the past have had odd behavior after system crashes or BSOD. Firstly I would try loading Default Settings in BIOS or alternatively clearing the CMOS. I can't pinpoint why but after a system crash I too have experienced some power limit throttling that otherwise never occurs. It could be a BIOS bug of some sort.

If that nets you no real changes, have a look at these settings and give them a try (OTHER THAN the undervolt, stick to YOUR predetermined voltage). You may need to update to Throttle Stop 9.5 to match things. This is the 'Performance' profile I use and has no kind of throttling on Max Turbo for my 1720. If it works for you, then you can limit things on other profiles as you see fit.

Additionally, I believe your BIOS may be fully unlocked via this tool (InsydeH2OUVE_x86_WINx64_200.00.01.00) - http://en.inspur.com/eportal/fileDi...spur TS860M5/TS860M5_BIOS_4.0.04_20190424.zip
You'll see 'Setup Menu Insyde Full Show' is set to "Hide". Change to "Full" and options should appear. If you save and boot to BIOS they should be viewable/selectable.

It is how I unlocked my 1720 BIOS and can change PL levels, and about 1000 other settings from Windows or BIOS. It seems to work either way, requiring a reboot if in Windows. If this works for you let me know. It was shared to me from another PowerSpec user.
 

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naufalkharits

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Hi everyone, can I get some suggestions to undervolt my 8750H? Here are the details,
• Alienware m15
• Windows 11
• i7-8750H
• GTX 1070 Max-Q
• Kingpin KPx thermal paste

Tested with Cinebench R23 and monitored with ThrottleStop 9.5 (default settings but "Log File" turned on).
 

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unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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Messages
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In Windows 11 you need to disable the virtualization settings to allow ThrottleStop to access the CPU voltage control register. I just talked about this issue yesterday.


After you get that problem fixed, you should be able to undervolt the cache approximately -125 mV and the core approximately -175 mV. Use Cinebench R23 for testing purposes. Follow the advice previously posted in this thread, in all of the other TechPowerUp ThrottleStop threads and the 101 YouTube videos that are available.
 
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Hi everyone, can I get some suggestions to undervolt my 8750H? Here are the details,
• Alienware m15
• Windows 11
• i7-8750H
• GTX 1070 Max-Q
• Kingpin KPx thermal paste

Tested with Cinebench R23 and monitored with ThrottleStop 9.5 (default settings but "Log File" turned on).

My settings for reference are attached! Also, follow @unclewebb's every instruction to the letter!
 

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naufalkharits

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Taking my first undervolting, quite impressed with the results (performance & temp). Here are the details of what I did,
• Disabled virtualisation
• Core set to -175.8 mV
• Cache set to -125 mV

Not much changed, I haven't read much yet on other threads, prefer safety and stability first for now.
Thank you for the advice.

Anyway, my 8750H almost managed to surpass 12C/24T CPU
 

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unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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Messages
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Your undervolt is working correctly.

The only problem now is your Alienware cooling system appears to be inadequate. Have you ever disassembled your laptop to clean it out? Blowing the dust bunnies out of the heatsinks might solve your overheating issues. If you are still seeing temperatures hit 100°C during Cinebench then I would also replace the thermal paste.

Dell is known for using barely adequate heatsinks. With a high priced Alienware laptop, I would hope that the heatsink, when properly cleaned, would be a little above barely adequate. Hopefully it just needs servicing but it is possible that this is as good as it gets.
 

Thrasher

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My settings for reference are attached! Also, follow @unclewebb's every instruction to the letter!
Man, I loved your configuration, it works incredibly smooth for me, when I play with another monitor it also works better, thanks.
 

naufalkharits

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Your undervolt is working correctly.

The only problem now is your Alienware cooling system appears to be inadequate. Have you ever disassembled your laptop to clean it out? Blowing the dust bunnies out of the heatsinks might solve your overheating issues. If you are still seeing temperatures hit 100°C during Cinebench then I would also replace the thermal paste.

Dell is known for using barely adequate heatsinks. With a high priced Alienware laptop, I would hope that the heatsink, when properly cleaned, would be a little above barely adequate. Hopefully it just needs servicing but it is possible that this is as good as it gets.
I regularly clean up my laptop's cooling system.

What's your thermal paste recommendation? I still have the rest of Kingpin KPx, is that quite good for a laptop?
 
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I regularly clean up my laptop's cooling system.

What's your thermal paste recommendation? I still have the rest of Kingpin KPx, is that quite good for a laptop?

I have the ultimate solution for lowering temps! Avoid all thermal pastes for laptops, they eventually go bad! Buy this and forget all of your thermal concerns! You can thank me later!

How to apply this TIM: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1pb4y1f7R6 (Skip to 12:12)
If Honeywell PTM7950 TIM doesn't work out for you then your cooling system is flawed like @unclewebb mentioned previously!

My cinebench R23 score and max temp 83°C considering 90% humidity and 30°C ambient temperature using Honeywell PTM7950 below
1660541432185.png
 
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naufalkharits

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Joined
Aug 13, 2022
Messages
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Testing-2
Did another testing,
• IccMax (core & cache) set to max

Not impressed with the temp, but performance managed to surpass the 12C/24T CPU.

---

Testing-3
I think I found the sweet spot,
• PROCHOT Offset set to 10
• Locked MMIO
• Power Limit 4 set to 0

Very impressed with the results, by doing this the temp even didn't reach 95℃, and the performance was only reduced by less than 5%.

---

So far what I did,
• Disabled virtualisation
• Core set to -175.8 mV
• Cache set to -125 mV
• IccMax (core & cache) set to max
• PROCHOT Offset set to 10
• Locked MMIO
• Power Limit 4 set to 0

I'll update with gaming test.

If Honeywell PTM7950 TIM doesn't work out for you then your cooling system is flawed like @unclewebb mentioned previously!

My cinebench R23 score and max temp 83°C considering 90% humidity and 30°C ambient temperature using Honeywell PTM7950 below View attachment 258151
Hard to find that thing you mentioned in my country, and I'm too lazy to order from foreign countries, you know tax, cc, and such.
 

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Joined
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Hard to find that thing you mentioned in my country, and I'm too lazy to order from foreign countries, you know tax, cc, and such.
Well, if you're lazy then I cannot help you anymore because you are not willing to put any effort! I have given you the link where to order it from! It ships from China so it will take some time. Just order it and stop making lame excuses. I ordered it too and had to go through taxes and customs clearance etc. and ever since I didn't look back! Best decision I made after thorough research!

Man, I loved your configuration, it works incredibly smooth for me, when I play with another monitor it also works better, thanks.
How are your thermals?
 

Thrasher

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Messages
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How are your thermals?
91 degrees maximum, and it's time to clean the coolers. I was looking for what you recommended to replace the pasta, Tim, but I can't find it in Argentina, would you have the name to be able to look for it or what do you recommend instead?
 
Joined
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Messages
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91 degrees maximum, and it's time to clean the coolers. I was looking for what you recommended to replace the pasta, Tim, but I can't find it in Argentina, would you have the name to be able to look for it or what do you recommend instead?
I have the ultimate solution for lowering temps provided your cooling system design is adequate enough! Avoid all thermal pastes for laptops, they eventually go bad real fast! Buy this and forget all of your thermal concerns! It ships from China so it will take some time.

How to apply this TIM: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1pb4y1f7R6 (Skip to 12:12)
 

pechtowerup

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Haven't messed with any settings other than both core and cache to -0.22. -0.23 crashes. I see here that y'all suggest a lower cache-- when I start stress testing should I just start lowering cache until stable?

MSI GL63-8RD, i7-8750h / 1050ti, win 10
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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Messages
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Rare to see an 8750H that is 100% stable with the cache set to more than -135 mV.

The TS Bench test will report errors fairly quickly when the CPU needs more voltage.

Use Cinebench R23 for testing purposes. Set both voltages equally until you find a stable setting. After that, increase only the core until your R23 scores max out.
 
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