Discussion in 'Games' started by natr0n, Nov 6, 2012.
It just takes too much of my time to be sneaky. I prefer shooting everyone in the face.
During the Epilogue, I stuck to the right side of the map through the first section. I didn't have to subdue anyone or hide in anything. It was all a matter of timing (first attempt even).
The second part...it splits into a V where the target is on the left and there was only three guards on the right. I subdued the one in the tunnel, followed the tunnel through to subdue another after the conversation is over, then back-tracked through the tunnel, threw a block to get the last guy's attention, and subdued him. There is a tunnel going between that area and where the target is and all the guards were conviently facing a way. I just wait until the target stops talking and after a minute or so, she'll walk through the tunnel you just came in through where you can garrot her and stash her body with the other four guys from before. Now all you got to do is back-track to the V, pick the lock, and you're done.
Third area, I basically just worked from right to left. There's only three targets and no extra witnesses. You just have to keep your wits about you so you don't stumble into a mine.
Every level I used disguises on were 10x easier than not. They won't make your completely invisible in most cases but the reduced awareness + instinct to hide yourself and you can get by with just about anything. Subduing and headshots fill the instinct meter quickly.
Better than Hitman 2? I freaking loved that game.
It's very similar to Silent Assassin in that, even with a disguise, you're still not fully safe. It's also similar in that stealth isn't as critical as it was in Contracts and Blood Money. If you want to charge into every map, just like Silent Assassin, and murder everyone, you can do that. You won't unlock much of the good stuff but you probably won't need it anyway.
I'd say Absolution is probably the most similar to Silent Assassin of all Hitman titles. Not in plot, of course, but gameplay. And yes, I'd call it better.
Edit: Best thing about Absolution is it has replay value. There's 12+ challenges on every mission and it is impossible to get them all in one play through. Many of them require you to get creative with kills (e.g. electricution, kill 10 people in a scare crow disguise, garrot wire kills, etc.) and some are hilarious (e.g. taking the judges robes/wig and sentencing someone).
But you've only played it on Normal so far FordGT? Almost any method used on Normal is doable. It's hard to know why people complain a lot about this game until you play it on Hard through Purist. That's where you get psychic NPCs spotting you from far away while not even looking your direction.
Eidos haven't just said they're considering tweaking the disguise system because of that petition for it on the forum. They could probably survive without doing that based on review site ratings and the amount of sales they've already gotten.
They likely saw that there were many valid points made. This game is also not really like any other Hitman because of the way the disguise and detection works and the fact that gameplay is so dependent on contrived gimmicks like Instinct tricking and Hide Spots.
Why does everyone that claims they like the game the way it is, many not having even tried the harder difficulty levels in saying so, assume we that complain about certain elements of it can't play it well? They should try it on harder levels before saying that.
Some of us just prefer the methods required to beat it on harder levels be more balanced and sensible. That can be done without changing how challenging it is. The primary aspect of this game, stealth, wasn't thought out as well as it could have been.
The game has potential if they'd just balance the effectiveness of one disguise vs another and tweak the viewing distance and angles of NPCs. Hide Spots also shouldn't function like an automatic safe haven. You should only get so much time at them before becoming suspicious.
There's much about the game I DO like. Having to find items for distractions (and melee), vs having an unlimited number of coins adds variety and strategy. Most of the environmental hazard kills are great too, often having great visual effects. I also like the many routes and ways you can kill people.
Besides what I mentioned though, the scoring system needs tweaking a bit. You can actually go into plus points by killing and hiding non target NPCs due to the silent kill bonus, yet subduing and hiding them only lets you break even. There should never be a bonus for unnecessary kills.
Here's another thing that makes no sense on scoring. If you mess up and have to reload a player activated checkpoint, the game respawns any non target NPCs you've killed or subdued. OK, fine, I'm being penalized for messing up, but AM I? Since the score is retained, I CAN potentially stealth kill and hide all those NPCs again.
A stealth kill plus hiding a body more than compensates for the non target NPC kill penalty, so one could potentially kill and hide all NPCs in an area, reload a player checkpoint, and rinse and repeat to build the score up, because when NPCs respawn, body hiding spots also empty back out.
The enemies coming back on a checkpoint is the worst fucking design element ever, excuse my language.
While that CAN indeed be annoying, those checkpoints do in fact save progress, despite people saying they don't. They're only intended to save your kill target, pickup and point progress.
The game is designed in such a way that you can literally kill only targets and sneak past everyone else. Thus once you have all your targets, items, evidence, etc, in one area, you should be able to load that checkpoint and go on to the next.
The only time it really presents a problem is in places like the orphanage where you have to backtrack to the exit point after getting all the pickups. However that is a level that's not hard to get through by subduing and hiding bodies, without using any checkpoints.
It also becomes a problem if you're too loud in the area you progress to, which can cause respawned NPCs to come looking. Each area is separated by different patrol groups and distraction sounds they can hear though, so as long as you play smart, respawning NPCs should only be a problem if you need to backtrack.
The strange thing is you can actually score better by silent killing and hiding bodies, which shouldn't be the case when it's non target NPCs you're killing. I also found a strange level segment checkpoint quirk at the start of the Cornfield segment of Attack of the Saints.
On all my session reloads of that checkpoint it always loaded with the Agent 47 suit I had on and the fire extinguisher I was carrying. After quitting the game and later loading back up that save though, it loaded with me wearing the Agent Soldier disguise and carrying a golf club. Has anyone else had this happen after quitting a session then going back to the game?
Form what the onscreen prompts say it's just player activated checkpoints that only available in your current game session, yet the disguise and item you have seems to be sometimes compromised by ending a session. It would appear that some things regarding the save system need fixing.
If you enter them and they see it, the alerted status never goes away. In other words, you either need to restart or go to war.
Yeah, I agree. I was disappointed I didn't get Silent Assassin on a lot of levels because I didn't kill anyone. The Silent Assassin bonus should be awarded on levels where there are no hits and you make it through without killing anyone or being spotted.
Yup, I noticed that one too and they need to fix that. On the Lenny mission where you take out his gang, there is a room you can sneak up to to the right at the beginning with a sniper. I pacified the sole guard there and set the checkpoint, only to load it and have the guard back standing watch and me trapped without any objects to distract him with. They need to replace checkpoints with a save/load system where different difficulties limit how many saves you get--just like Blood Money.
In a stealth game, progressing is getting through the level (whilst completing your objectives) unseen/with low alarm. When the entire top floor I killed respawns and I have to go through and kill all of them again just to get around to the other side and take a different approach at a level, that is completely retarded.
Well, I think it's safe to say the intention of Hide Spots assumes you get to them without being spotted, otherwise you can't and shouldn't be able to use them at all.
I disagree on Silent Assassin being awarded on missions where you can get through without killing anyone, that's not technically performing as an assassin. I think it's a good change and adds variety to the game that some missions are assassination missions, and some not.
I also like that you have to excel in your performance even in missions where there ARE kill targets to get Silent Assassin. It adds replay value, esp since they have so many ways to get bonus points. It's a game where patience and exploration is rewarded by success in both ratings and skill buffs.
I totally agree with you if we are talking Easy and Normal modes, but on Professional difficulty modes, I see nothing wrong with saving just the stats, kill target and pickup progress on player checkpoints.
By the time a lot of people step up to the Pro difficulty modes, they are using a lot of distractions and sneaking, vs killing their way through. On Easy and Normal it's kinda stupid to have respawning NPCs though.
Even WITH respawning NPCs, as long as you take care of your objectives along the way, you won't need to backtrack anyway on most levels. It's a pretty linear game for the most part. You WILL get NPCs in those prior areas hassling you if you go too loud though.
I'm not just going to talk about this though, I have a video to offer up at least a bit of proof that sneaking is not as difficult as it first seems. It just takes good timing and carefully placed distractions. This is the first of the 3 segments of Attack of the Saints achieving Silent Assassin on Hard with only the two target kills, one by accident, no detection, no bodies found, and both bodies hidden.
I have also play tested the 3rd segment, Cornfield, achieving Silent Assassin on Hard, though I'm going to go back and get 2 of the 3 targets (vs 1) with accident kills. I have a way to do Cornfield pretty quickly, and though I don't get points for hiding bodies, they either don't get found or are found after an accident kill, which I don't think even raises the Body Found status since there's no evidence of a kill.
I tried playing it the correct way...boring to the point of tears. I would much rather alert everyone in the map and shoot it out lol. http://youtu.be/TwOZziXCAzc
Actually what you showed there is pretty much middle ground between total stealth and going psycho crazy and alerting them all. There's no real correct way. I kinda like trying different tactics and kill methods, because when it comes down to it, any one style can become boring if used too much. It adds a lot of replay value that you can do things so many ways.
Here's the last of my Saints videos to complete the mini trilogy with them and write their final epitaphs. I was rather surprised at how easy it was to breeze through the reception area, even in a like uniform, which I had to wear because Level Select loads a default uni. I didn't bother gathering evidence. I wanted to get it done quickly and the points were plenty high without it. Besides, now I can wonder what goodies I can unlock on the next play through when I DO find it.
The three saints levels were the hardest to do without taking a disguise. I ultimately gave up trying to get Silent Assassin with the suit, slaughtered them all, then redid it taking a guard disguise for Silent Assassin.
What difficulty mode were you playing on? The Parking segment didn't seem too tough on Hard with the suit. I wanted to use it for Reception and Cornfield but the Level Select option is separate from the campaign saves so it only loads the default Agency Soldier disguise. You're making me wonder if the ease of getting through it was "false confidence", as Rodrigo Branco would say.
Hitman Absolution review is ready!
I meant getting Silent Assassin rating too. If you go in guns blazing, it's pretty easy. There's only a handful of guards and lots of cover.
I played through on normal, keeping the suit and not using guns throughout the entire game. Only knock out and hide body. I didn't knock out anyone that I didn't have a place to hide the body.
The only level I got spotted on was that circular testing facility. I couldn't find any way to get past the test subjects without a disguise but, because they can't react to seeing you, no alarm is raised.
Yeah that test facility is a biach, but I finally found a way through it without being seen last play through on Hard, so it should work with suit too. Love the fire paste trick. LOL
I just got through Skurky's Law with only one knockout and no kills, but I didn't do it via the judges chambers. Still trying to figure out how to get in there unseen with minimal knockouts. kinda blasted my way in last time on Normal. LOL
I used a bailiff disguise this time to get into the evidence area, but maybe didn't need to. I might go back and try it suit only. Come to think of it, the only way suit only may be knockouts outside, because that courtroom is chock full of cops.
I also have gotten up to the start of Outgunned on Operation Sledgehammer with just the suit and no knockouts/kills. I get almost to the exit of Outgunned, then I have trouble with one guy standing by a car.
One thing that often bothers me about this game is you either can't toss objects when in certain cover spots or there's no trajectory indicator available, and placement of tossed items is critical in this game, as is staying out of view while tossing them.
I'm not very polished in this game...had a hard time gaining enough Instinct to get past the guards into the Judge's chamber. I did however discover that transfering my video over to Windows Live MovieMaker and uploading/processing to YouTube from there resulted in light speed compared to any other method I have tried previously. http://youtu.be/Wv7YEuBTLhE
You can relatively easily reach the judge's chambers by way of outside. There's windows open and walls you can climb up to get in there. I knocked out all but two of the police officers outside though (hid all their bodies in that little two-story building by the gate).
I don't think it is possible to get Silent Assassin on Skurky's Law without taking a disguise. You might be able to by leaving a huge pile of bodies behind the judge's desk but your score won't be that great with all those deductions. That's the approach I took and I stupidly waltzed into the evidence room and got seen subduing one of the two guards. I said "fuck it" at that point and gunned about 5 guards down then left. Got the Suit Only goal but of course no Silent Assassin.
Don't know which one specifically you are talking about but what has always worked for me is throwing items in a secluded area, subduing them, then hiding the body. Rince and repeat until the way forward is cleared.
I didn't have a problem with it. I almost always threw stuff in a corner so they're looking away from me when they go to investigate.
I forgot to say the above struggled attempts were with no Instinct used. I prefer not to use it if I can avoid it.
Outgunned is the part just after getting your Silver Ballers back from the front desk of the police station where you have to get by a lot of yellow and black armored troops, then exit near the exploded tanker truck that crashed in the intro cutscene to that level.
I can get most of the way through it no matter what I'm wearing with just sneaking and no knockouts, but then there's that damn guy standing on the other side of the street on the side walk next to a car facing the exit.
I tried subduing him once and leaving him there, but it's too hard to do without being spotted. I finally just crept down the stairs near the interactive checkpoint, tossed a bottle, and used Instinct.
If there's one thing I hate about this game it's that you have to use that damn magic Instinct trick. Also, "relatively easy" is of course based on methods used. I don't like to do lots of knockouts, and when I do. I try to limit it to one or two guys, and only if I can catch them alone near a dumpster or closet.
For instance, I've grown to like the baliff disguise more than the judge one because it's more realistic, doesn't require a lot of knockouts and/or un-hidden bodies, and it's still relatively challenging. I use the upstairs library to access the disguise and dump the subdued victim using one distraction toss and careful timing.
I took the long way not realizing there was a short way. When I left the building, I followed the wall to the right, snuck by all the the guards (I think there's one I always pacified to the far right that I hid the body of, don't remember) keeping to the brick wall. Where the brick wall opened up to the street, I crossed over then followed the left path around the cars to the wall on the other side of the street. I got relatively close to the guy looking away then crossed the street and went up the stairs, knocked out a guy up there, hid his body, then followed that path around in a C shape back to the street. At this point, the line of 4+ guards turned around and started walking down the street. I simply crossed the street and went into the building at this point.
Apparently, you can climb up if you follow the left wall to the area with all the BBQs so you can circumvent the whole street part. I didn't actually try that route though so I don't know how well it works.
Botched entry into the holding cells, but I'm learning. http://youtu.be/i5fOa1BqnaY
Color me intrigued, I was wondering if there was a high route I missed. I scanned a bit with Instinct before crossing the street, but saw no highlighted ledges or windows. I'll have to look again I guess.
You were doing great on the first part, esp with no knockouts or distractions, up until you needlessly killed the judge without hiding the body, which lowers your score. I won't nit pick about the part where you got caught because ironically, getting past the courtroom easily in the judge disguise actually makes the otherwise easy cell part more difficult, not to mention the difficulty of even getting into the judges chambers. Needless to say those novelty moments the game offers come with a price.
Tbh, none of my gameplay has been about scoring to date. I'm just having fun exploring different routes/methods to the goals without any thoughts of constraints of what the game makers think I should do. I don't want to use Instinct or that multiple targeting gizmo because it just seems unrealistic.
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