• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Hot take: B550 is DOA for enthusiasts. Your thoughts?

Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
834 (0.94/day)
Location
United Kingdom
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 2
Processor Intel Core i7-11700
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming B560M-Plus (WiFi)
Cooling be quiet! Shadow Rock LP
Memory 2x 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200 MHz CL16
Video Card(s) ASUS GeForce GTX 1650 4 GB LP OC
Storage 1 TB Corsair MP400, 512 GB ADATA SU900
Display(s) Samsung C24F396
Case AeroCool CS-101, 2x 8 cm Akasa slim fans
Audio Device(s) Genius SP-HF160 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply SilverStone SX300
Mouse Cherry MW 8
Keyboard MagicForce 68
Software Windows 10
lol...I can't help that your head cannot separate a platfrom definition from the features. BUt they are absolutely NOT inaccurate if you actually understand how platforms are defined (as most 'enthusiasts' can).

Good luck to you...we'll agree to disagree. :)

EDIT: Here is a great article showing all of the differences between the platforms....
.
I understand the difference, but it's minor! It's not like comparing Intel's X299 and Z470 that are fundamentally different. We're talking about a few extra PCI-e 4.0 lanes and a slightly different USB layout, which in my eyes, cannot make the difference between "enthusiast" and "mid-range". CPU support is the same, RAM support is the same, BIOS/UEFI features are essentially the same (e.g. overclocking support), and they're both targeted at desktop users.

But ok, let's agree to disagree. :)
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,311 (4.61/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
I understand the difference, but it's minor! It's not like comparing Intel's X299 and Z470 that are fundamentally different. We're talking about a few extra PCI-e 4.0 lanes and a slightly different USB layout, which in my eyes, cannot make the difference between "enthusiast" and "mid-range". CPU support is the same, RAM support is the same, BIOS/UEFI features are essentially the same (e.g. overclocking support), and they're both targeted at desktop users.

But ok, let's agree to disagree. :)
Well, your mind didn't define these and taken its own liberties to blur the lines... your choice. ;)

Peace out.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
Messages
322 (0.75/day)
X570 motherboards range from $120-zOMG too much... I'm not surprised some boards choke with a 3950x......you'll likely find the same with B550 motherboards too. You'd need to be more specific on which board to make a more valid point here.
VRM throttled (+100C) with R9 3900X, auto Vcore (open case test - 1H stress test):
MSI X570-A PRO - $150
MSI MPG X570 Gaming Edge WIFI -$290
________________________
Close to VRM throttling on 3900X (80C+) & throttled on 3950X:
Asrock X570 PRO4 - $200
Asrock X570 Steel Legend - $220
Gigabyte X570 Gaming X - $200

All of these boards should be able to sustain 3900X/3950 especially the ones with PRO label. That's why uneducated consumer buys X570. Not everyone is tech nerd to know all the details about the board. I can easily see encoding something not knowing that I'm losing precious time, because my CPU is working on lower frequency then it should.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,311 (4.61/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Some inexpensive B550s will do that same, bud... though since this is the second go around they likely won't make that mistake (as often). But this has been going on since as long as I can remember. Again, the chipset and what comes with it DOES NOT define features which include the VRM. The sooner those questioning this segmentation realize that, the better off they'll be.

I'm sorry you guys don't like grey areas...there is something to be said for being an educated consumer...this isn't rocket science for anyone who considers themselves 'enthusiasts'.

PS - Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear warefare. If it isn't throttling, it isn't throttling. ;)

You realize that almost every board you listed there are bottom of the barrel X570, right?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
Messages
322 (0.75/day)
Some inexpensive B550s will do that same, bud... though since this is the second go around they likely won't make that mistake (as often). But this has been going on since as long as I can remember. Again, the chipset and what comes with it DOES NOT define features which include the VRM. The sooner those questioning this segmentation realize that, the better off they'll be.

I'm sorry you guys don't like grey areas...there is something to be said for being an educated consumer...this isn't rocket science for anyone who considers themselves 'enthusiasts'.

PS - Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear warefare. If it isn't throttling, it isn't throttling. ;)

You realize that almost every board you listed there are bottom of the barrel X570, right?
Isn't throttling yet. Run some app that utilizes Nvidia's cuda cores to full extend besides CPU's cores and you get eggs baking temps soon enough :) Joking aside "PRO" naming in my eyes means prosumer ready MB and as such it should support prosumer CPUs (3900X/3950X) to full extend.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,311 (4.61/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Isn't throttling yet. Run some app that utilizes Nvidia's cuda cores to full extend besides CPU's cores and you get eggs baking temps soon enough :)
I'm not going to debate the merits of case airflow here...

Just understand that you've cherry picked (mostly) the least expensive boards from X570. And while I agree with the overall sentiment that they shouldn't throttle, this begs the question of why the hell is anyone pairing the cheapest X570 board they could find with a flagship CPU in the first place?

That, and...again........ the chipset/platform does NOT define how the BOARD PARTNERS implement their VRM.

Knowledge is power. And for those who don't/won't look can get burned. Your other choice was to go B450 with, overall has lesser VRM's than X570 so you had even more potential to be screwed there, but now B550 came out with the best of BOTH worlds...

I really feel like the big picture perspective is missing for some. :)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
872 (0.18/day)
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
System Name Ryzen/Laptop/htpc
Processor R9 3900X/i7 6700HQ/i7 2600
Motherboard AsRock X470 Taichi/Acer/ Gigabyte H77M
Cooling Corsair H115i pro with 2 Noctua NF-A14 chromax/OEM/Noctua NH-L12i
Memory G.Skill Trident Z 32GB @3200/16GB DDR4 2666 HyperX impact/24GB
Video Card(s) TUL Red Dragon Vega 56/Intel HD 530 - GTX 950m/ 970 GTX
Storage 970pro NVMe 512GB,Samsung 860evo 1TB, 3x4TB WD gold/Transcend 830s, 1TB Toshiba/Adata 256GB + 1TB WD
Display(s) Philips FTV 32 inch + Dell 2407WFP-HC/OEM/Sony KDL-42W828B
Case Phanteks Enthoo Luxe/Acer Barebone/Enermax
Audio Device(s) SoundBlasterX AE-5 (Dell A525)(HyperX Cloud Alpha)/mojo/soundblaster xfi gamer
Power Supply Seasonic focus+ 850 platinum (SSR-850PX)/165 Watt power brick/Enermax 650W
Mouse G502 Hero/M705 Marathon/G305 Hero Lightspeed
Keyboard G19/oem/Steelseries Apex 300
Software Win10 pro 64bit
That is not an answer to the question.
Yes it is. I don't like to repeat myself. Check my previous comments and try do differentiate between AMD and mobo makers, they are not the same entity.
cause a 280 dollar board that'll take a 16 core cpu and pci-e 4.0 gpu is apparently mid range for this guy
AMD has a chipset segmentation, now, if gigabyte or other companies want to make 280 dollar b550 board that is not AMD s problem. Get it? Board makers want to saturate their respective market and they do it by creating 30987776666778 boards with the same damn chipset. Unless you would prefer AMD to artificially lock the b550 like Intel does. IMO that would be moronic.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
239 (0.35/day)
System Name Not a Threadripper but sill pretty good!
Processor Ryzen 9 3950x
Motherboard ASRock X470 Master SLI/AC (revision 1.02, BIOS/UEFI version P4.10)
Cooling EK-FB ASRock X470 Gaming K4 RGB Monoblock, EK-Quantum Kinetic TBE 200 D5 PWM, EK-CoolStream PE 360
Memory Micron 18ASF2G72AZ-2G6D1 ECC DDR4-2666 (dual rank, 4 sticks, 64GB, OC to DDR4-3200)
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage Samsung 970 EVO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen3x4 NVMe
Display(s) 2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black
Power Supply Corsair RM750x
Mouse Logitech M570
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software Windows 10 Professional (64bit, version 19.09)
Benchmark Scores CBR20=9,538 (multi-core, stock) CBR23=24,074 (multi-core, stock)
Some inexpensive B550s will do that same, bud... though since this is the second go around they likely won't make that mistake (as often). But this has been going on since as long as I can remember. Again, the chipset and what comes with it DOES NOT define features which include the VRM. The sooner those questioning this segmentation realize that, the better off they'll be.

I'm sorry you guys don't like grey areas...there is something to be said for being an educated consumer...this isn't rocket science for anyone who considers themselves 'enthusiasts'.

PS - Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear warefare. If it isn't throttling, it isn't throttling. ;)

You realize that almost every board you listed there are bottom of the barrel X570, right?

It would have been nice for the board vendors to have put some disclaimers with their 3900x/3950x CPU compatibility lists like "Requires advanced VRM cooling or with ECO mode recommended".
I'm surprised that aftermarket "enthusiast" grade heat-sinks didn't become more a thing with AM4 considering all the attention that VRM's have gotten with that platform.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,311 (4.61/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
It would have been nice for the board vendors to have put some disclaimers with their 3900x/3950x CPU compatibility lists like "Requires advanced VRM cooling or with ECO mode recommended".
No doubt... but this has been an issue generation after generation after generation, and more so from AMD (Looking at FX 8350+ and those motherboards spanning generations where only a handful of boards could manage without additional cooling). :)
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
1,241 (0.51/day)
Location
Modesto, California
System Name The Captain (2.0)
Processor Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard ASRock B550 PG Velocita
Cooling ARCTIC LF II 240mm AIO; 2x 140mm and 2x 120mm case fans
Memory 16 GB (3200Mhz) G.Skill Trident Z Royal (Silver)
Video Card(s) MSI Gaming X GTX 1660 Super
Storage 1x Crucial MX500 500GB SSD; 1x Crucial MX500 500GB M.2 SSD; 1x WD Blue 7200 RPM HDD
Display(s) Aorus CV27F 27" 1080p 165Hz
Case Phanteks Eclipse P500A (non RGB)
Power Supply Seasonic FOCUS+ Platinum 750W
Mouse HyperX Pulsefire Surge
Keyboard HyperX Alloy Origins Core
@EarthDog, save your breath, my dude. I'm not sure AusWolf and RedelZaVedno will ever quite get it no matter how much you attempt to clarify it. Let it be, and save yourself a headache in the process :)
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
834 (0.94/day)
Location
United Kingdom
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 2
Processor Intel Core i7-11700
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming B560M-Plus (WiFi)
Cooling be quiet! Shadow Rock LP
Memory 2x 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200 MHz CL16
Video Card(s) ASUS GeForce GTX 1650 4 GB LP OC
Storage 1 TB Corsair MP400, 512 GB ADATA SU900
Display(s) Samsung C24F396
Case AeroCool CS-101, 2x 8 cm Akasa slim fans
Audio Device(s) Genius SP-HF160 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply SilverStone SX300
Mouse Cherry MW 8
Keyboard MagicForce 68
Software Windows 10
@EarthDog, save your breath, my dude. I'm not sure AusWolf and RedelZaVedno will ever quite get it no matter how much you attempt to clarify it. Let it be, and save yourself a headache in the process :)
So just because I disagree with badging motherboards as "enthusiast-grade" based only on what chipset they have on them, you think I have no understanding of how a VRM can overheat. No offence, but that's an extremely dumb conclusion.

On the other hand, I was never even mentioned in this conversation, so what I will never ever quite get is why you had to bring my name up this time.

Edit: BTW, I agree with @EarthDog on this, as I used to own an FX-based system, and overheating was definitely an issue (VRM included). It wouldn't hurt to wait for an answer before you point out how ignorant people are. ;)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
239 (0.35/day)
System Name Not a Threadripper but sill pretty good!
Processor Ryzen 9 3950x
Motherboard ASRock X470 Master SLI/AC (revision 1.02, BIOS/UEFI version P4.10)
Cooling EK-FB ASRock X470 Gaming K4 RGB Monoblock, EK-Quantum Kinetic TBE 200 D5 PWM, EK-CoolStream PE 360
Memory Micron 18ASF2G72AZ-2G6D1 ECC DDR4-2666 (dual rank, 4 sticks, 64GB, OC to DDR4-3200)
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage Samsung 970 EVO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen3x4 NVMe
Display(s) 2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black
Power Supply Corsair RM750x
Mouse Logitech M570
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software Windows 10 Professional (64bit, version 19.09)
Benchmark Scores CBR20=9,538 (multi-core, stock) CBR23=24,074 (multi-core, stock)
So just because I disagree with badging motherboards as "enthusiast-grade" based only on what chipset they have on them...

I probably also have a similar point of view as I have always thought of "enthusiast-grade" boards as having more niche or specialty features compared to mainstream boards within the same class (regardless if that feature is supplied by the chipset or not). For example boards having more exotic embedded controllers (SCSI/SAS, Creative Audio, Corsair RGB, Thunderbolt 3, 10G LAN, etc...) or rare features not typically found on mainstream boards (LN2, extra sensors, bios flashback, extra layers, unique design features, etc...) Sometimes 3rd party add-ons might contribute to a boards "enthusiast-grade" such as availability of exotic water blocks or other specialty hardware or mods for that board.

Of course when certain things become popular then the industry starts to follow and things become more common like RGB controllers are found in a lot of motherboards these days.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
240 (0.64/day)
System Name Yin/Yang
Processor Ryzen 7 3700x
Motherboard msi mag x570 tomahawk
Cooling CoolerMaster ML240V2 / asiahorse fs9002 120mm fans
Memory 2 x 16gb g.skill trident z neo 3600
Video Card(s) msi gaming X 2070 super 8gb
Storage 1tb sabrent rocket nvme / 1tb samsung evo 860 sata ssd / 3tb Toshiba hdd
Display(s) lg ultragear 2560x1440 144hz 1ms 27"ips
Case nzxt h510i
Audio Device(s) logitech g635 / creative sound blaster
Power Supply evga supernova 750ga 80 plus gold
Mouse logitech g402 hyperion fury
Keyboard corsair k55
VRM throttled (+100C) with R9 3900X, auto Vcore (open case test - 1H stress test):
MSI X570-A PRO - $150
MSI MPG X570 Gaming Edge WIFI -$290
________________________
Close to VRM throttling on 3900X (80C+) & throttled on 3950X:
Asrock X570 PRO4 - $200
Asrock X570 Steel Legend - $220
Gigabyte X570 Gaming X - $200

All of these boards should be able to sustain 3900X/3950 especially the ones with PRO label. That's why uneducated consumer buys X570. Not everyone is tech nerd to know all the details about the board. I can easily see encoding something not knowing that I'm losing precious time, because my CPU is working on lower frequency then it should.

Agree with you there, you left out the pro carbon too which has exceptionally terrible thermals on higher cores...

Call me crazy, but i think if a board says compatible with with ryzen 3000 series cpus...i expect it not to throttle with a stock ryzen 3000 series cpu...?..
In cases like the pro carbon and gaming edge they are upwards of 250-300$ USD...that's a fairly pretty penny to be paying for a board with atrocious thermals.

Obviously it's too late to go back in time and fix existing packaging or user manuals but you would expect in situations like these that the manufacturer would at least go back and rectify the information on their website right? it's never too late to fix that...but in this case maybe i missed it but i browsed the manufacturer website and i didn't notice any amendments. But i definitely noticed the part where they boasted these boards "heavy duty heatsinks, and reliable processor power delivery".
-_-


Not intentionally trying to single out MSI, i actually just bought an msi board.. but truth is truth.
I guess it's why (to earthdog's point) it's always important to do the consumer homework before making a purchase. If we all just took the manufacturers word for it every time (regardless of whether they are generally known for having good products or not) then alot of us would only be asking for disappointment
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,311 (4.61/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
So just because I disagree with badging motherboards as "enthusiast-grade" based only on what chipset they have on them, you think I have no understanding of how a VRM can overheat. No offence, but that's an extremely dumb conclusion.

On the other hand, I was never even mentioned in this conversation, so what I will never ever quite get is why you had to bring my name up this time.
Gmr was talking about how you designate motherboards... nothing else. Hackles down... move on. :)

I probably also have a similar point of view as I have always thought of "enthusiast-grade" boards as having more niche or specialty features compared to mainstream boards within the same class....
Now you know how they are actually classified. :)

Features bleed within mainstream/enthusiast/hedt etc. We can make some generalizations about the platforms, but features which are not tied to a chipset will show on different segments of boards.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
239 (0.35/day)
System Name Not a Threadripper but sill pretty good!
Processor Ryzen 9 3950x
Motherboard ASRock X470 Master SLI/AC (revision 1.02, BIOS/UEFI version P4.10)
Cooling EK-FB ASRock X470 Gaming K4 RGB Monoblock, EK-Quantum Kinetic TBE 200 D5 PWM, EK-CoolStream PE 360
Memory Micron 18ASF2G72AZ-2G6D1 ECC DDR4-2666 (dual rank, 4 sticks, 64GB, OC to DDR4-3200)
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage Samsung 970 EVO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen3x4 NVMe
Display(s) 2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black
Power Supply Corsair RM750x
Mouse Logitech M570
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software Windows 10 Professional (64bit, version 19.09)
Benchmark Scores CBR20=9,538 (multi-core, stock) CBR23=24,074 (multi-core, stock)
....
Call me crazy, but i think if a board says compatible with with ryzen 3000 series cpus...i expect it not to throttle with a stock ryzen 3000 series cpu...?..
In cases like the pro carbon and gaming edge they are upwards of 250-300$ USD...that's a fairly pretty penny to be paying for a board with atrocious thermals.
....

I agree and am quite frankly surprised that the vendors didn't try to segment their product lines a bit more (in marketing) between boards that can comfortably use 8 cores vs 16 cores. This would have been helpful for the consumer to make a better choice in motherboard selection.

....
I guess it's why (to earthdog's point) it's always important to do the consumer homework before making a purchase. If we all just took the manufacturers word for it every time (regardless of whether they are generally known for having good products or not) then a lot of us would only be asking for disappointment

Unfortunately sometimes the consumer doesn't always find the right information at the right time when they need it. For example when I bought my motherboard I did't realize the extent to which there was misrepresentation among vendors regarding advertised motherboard VRM's.
And you can imagine my surprise after building my system only to see these videos later.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
240 (0.64/day)
System Name Yin/Yang
Processor Ryzen 7 3700x
Motherboard msi mag x570 tomahawk
Cooling CoolerMaster ML240V2 / asiahorse fs9002 120mm fans
Memory 2 x 16gb g.skill trident z neo 3600
Video Card(s) msi gaming X 2070 super 8gb
Storage 1tb sabrent rocket nvme / 1tb samsung evo 860 sata ssd / 3tb Toshiba hdd
Display(s) lg ultragear 2560x1440 144hz 1ms 27"ips
Case nzxt h510i
Audio Device(s) logitech g635 / creative sound blaster
Power Supply evga supernova 750ga 80 plus gold
Mouse logitech g402 hyperion fury
Keyboard corsair k55
I understand computer guy...I wouldn't necessarily say it's ALWAYS a bad idea to buy a board as soon as it first comes out, but i think it's fair to say it's inherently more "dangerous" in these regards. Sure, a small sample of reviewers may get the product before it launches but it's always better to have a wider pool of reviews in terms of realistic consumer applications,experiences and such.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
239 (0.35/day)
System Name Not a Threadripper but sill pretty good!
Processor Ryzen 9 3950x
Motherboard ASRock X470 Master SLI/AC (revision 1.02, BIOS/UEFI version P4.10)
Cooling EK-FB ASRock X470 Gaming K4 RGB Monoblock, EK-Quantum Kinetic TBE 200 D5 PWM, EK-CoolStream PE 360
Memory Micron 18ASF2G72AZ-2G6D1 ECC DDR4-2666 (dual rank, 4 sticks, 64GB, OC to DDR4-3200)
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage Samsung 970 EVO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen3x4 NVMe
Display(s) 2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black
Power Supply Corsair RM750x
Mouse Logitech M570
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software Windows 10 Professional (64bit, version 19.09)
Benchmark Scores CBR20=9,538 (multi-core, stock) CBR23=24,074 (multi-core, stock)
Humm...trying to get back to the original OP question.

DOA...yea I think so...agreed.

If I was a new buyer I might choose B550 cause the idea of returning to the need for a chipset fan kinda bothers me however if I needed the extra PCIe lanes that would be the determining factor for sure. Most importantly if the price point difference was close enough in comparison (between boards with equal VRM quality) then X570 wins hands down. After all why pay the same price for less?

A possible factor in favor of B550 might be a bit more quality and stability in terms of BIOS updates since it doesn't have to worry about as much as X570 having to support older CPU's but only time will tell. Also with the delay of B550 the vendors had gotten some time to see what didn't work with X570 and hopefully any lessons learned there would allow them to make B550 boards better.

For now I'll be sticking with my X470 and will wait and see what the next socket offers mainly because my setup has been rock stable and I've settled for using it for my daily.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
1,241 (0.51/day)
Location
Modesto, California
System Name The Captain (2.0)
Processor Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard ASRock B550 PG Velocita
Cooling ARCTIC LF II 240mm AIO; 2x 140mm and 2x 120mm case fans
Memory 16 GB (3200Mhz) G.Skill Trident Z Royal (Silver)
Video Card(s) MSI Gaming X GTX 1660 Super
Storage 1x Crucial MX500 500GB SSD; 1x Crucial MX500 500GB M.2 SSD; 1x WD Blue 7200 RPM HDD
Display(s) Aorus CV27F 27" 1080p 165Hz
Case Phanteks Eclipse P500A (non RGB)
Power Supply Seasonic FOCUS+ Platinum 750W
Mouse HyperX Pulsefire Surge
Keyboard HyperX Alloy Origins Core
So just because I disagree with badging motherboards as "enthusiast-grade" based only on what chipset they have on them, you think I have no understanding of how a VRM can overheat. No offence, but that's an extremely dumb conclusion.

On the other hand, I was never even mentioned in this conversation, so what I will never ever quite get is why you had to bring my name up this time.

Edit: BTW, I agree with @EarthDog on this, as I used to own an FX-based system, and overheating was definitely an issue (VRM included). It wouldn't hurt to wait for an answer before you point out how ignorant people are. ;)

Firstly, don't put words in my mouth. I never said you DIDN'T have any understanding of how VRMs can overheat. Second, yeah I think you are failing to miss the points @EarthDog has attempted to get across to you, and that is that "Mainstream", "Enthusiast" and "HEDT" are merely board tiers and in no way dictate WHO can purchase them, which is what you seem to think -- i.e average user can only buy boards that are "mainstream"; more particular user can only buy "Enthusiast" and/or "HEDT". My dude, these terms are just used to describe different motherboard tiers, but at the end of the day, you're free to buy whatever the fuck you want.
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
399 (0.14/day)
System Name Hydra
Processor AMD Ryzen 5900X w/ aquacomputer cuplex kryos NEXT with VISION - acrylic/nickel
Motherboard Asus X570 Crosshair VII Formula
Cooling D5 PWM pump •• Corsair XR7 480mm + Black Ice Nemesis 360GTS radiators •• 7x ThermalFake ToughFan 12
Memory 4x 32GB G.Skill Trident Royal Silver @ 3600MHz, 18-22-22-42 (F4-3600C18-32GTRS)
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 3090 Strix OC w/ aquacomputer kryographics NEXT - acrylic/nickel
Storage 1TB Samsung 980 Pro (OS) ••• 2TB Phison E12 SSD (Work Space) ••• 40TB QNAP NAS via Intel X550-T2 NIC
Display(s) Alienware AW3418DW (3440x1440 @ 120Hz) ••• LG CX 65" (4K @ 120Hz)
Case Thermaltake Core P8
Power Supply Corsair AX1600i
Mouse Logitech G502SE (play) + Logitech MX Master 2S (work)
Keyboard Keycult 2/65, Alpaca Switches w/ Krytox 205G0, Durock Stab w/ Permatex Dielectric, GMK Mizu
Software W10 X64 Pro (duh)
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/jpd4j4
the problem with b550 is not capabilities, expansion or any technical spec. the problem is THE PRICE

b550 cost only like 10% less than their X570 counter parts. it doesn't make sense saving $20 on a $200 and lose a lot of potential expansion.

for example, my VR rig (pic attached) has a gigabyte X570i ITX board. i paid about $220 for it. the B550 version is $200, only $20 less, and you lose the second M.2 PCI-E 4.0 slot. it becomes a 3.0 slot. you leave a lot of potential on the table. my rig is running a RAID 0 config which i'm planning to upgrade to 4.0 once samsung finally drops their 4.0 drives.

on a full size board, you are giving up the ability to use multi GPUs in PCI-E 4.0 config. you are giving up the second PCI-E 4.0 M.2 slot. it's dumb. the savings aren't worth it.

if B550 boards were better priced, i would have no problems recommending them to people and buying one myself, because most builds will be using 1 expansion slot and 1 M.2 slot anyway. but right now it makes no sense.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0178.jpg
    IMG_0178.jpg
    757.1 KB · Views: 35
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
12,217 (5.03/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Black Box
Processor Intel i5-9600KF
Motherboard NZXT N7 Z370 Black
Cooling Cooler Master 240 RGB AIO / Stock
Memory Thermaltake Toughram 16GB 4400MHz DDR4 or Gigabyte 16GB 3600MHz DDR4 or Adata 8GB 2133Mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) Asus Dual 1060 6GB
Storage Kingston A2000 512Gb NVME
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Case Corsair 450D High Air Flow.
Audio Device(s) No need.
Power Supply FSP Aurum 650W
Mouse Yes
Keyboard Of course
Software W10 Pro 64 bit
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
1,241 (0.51/day)
Location
Modesto, California
System Name The Captain (2.0)
Processor Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard ASRock B550 PG Velocita
Cooling ARCTIC LF II 240mm AIO; 2x 140mm and 2x 120mm case fans
Memory 16 GB (3200Mhz) G.Skill Trident Z Royal (Silver)
Video Card(s) MSI Gaming X GTX 1660 Super
Storage 1x Crucial MX500 500GB SSD; 1x Crucial MX500 500GB M.2 SSD; 1x WD Blue 7200 RPM HDD
Display(s) Aorus CV27F 27" 1080p 165Hz
Case Phanteks Eclipse P500A (non RGB)
Power Supply Seasonic FOCUS+ Platinum 750W
Mouse HyperX Pulsefire Surge
Keyboard HyperX Alloy Origins Core
Yes. I'm a lady who just happens to swear like a sailor. It's like breathing for me, honestly. :D
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
239 (0.35/day)
System Name Not a Threadripper but sill pretty good!
Processor Ryzen 9 3950x
Motherboard ASRock X470 Master SLI/AC (revision 1.02, BIOS/UEFI version P4.10)
Cooling EK-FB ASRock X470 Gaming K4 RGB Monoblock, EK-Quantum Kinetic TBE 200 D5 PWM, EK-CoolStream PE 360
Memory Micron 18ASF2G72AZ-2G6D1 ECC DDR4-2666 (dual rank, 4 sticks, 64GB, OC to DDR4-3200)
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage Samsung 970 EVO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen3x4 NVMe
Display(s) 2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black
Power Supply Corsair RM750x
Mouse Logitech M570
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software Windows 10 Professional (64bit, version 19.09)
Benchmark Scores CBR20=9,538 (multi-core, stock) CBR23=24,074 (multi-core, stock)
Yes. I'm a lady who just happens to swear like a sailor. It's like breathing for me, honestly. :D
I know some sailors too but that's getting a little off topic. :toast:
 

CubanB

New Member
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
19 (0.05/day)
Personally, I think AMD have done a great job in the last few years with their Ryzen CPU's but sort of messed up the motherboard/chipset side of things, and I've had a hard time finding something that fits my needs. Money isn't an issue, but even without that.. I've had a hard time finding something that fits my needs compared to a 6 year old Haswell motherboard that I've never had a problem with.

X370 is actually my preferred choice in terms of peripherals, USB, SATA, PCIE etc. X470 is good too. Not a fan of X570 (get it? haha). I was going to stay with X370 but AMD said recently they wouldn't support them. Maybe there will be unofficial or beta BIOS. So I picked up a an X470 as a backup. Now I'm looking at B550, and I understand the general premise of this thread and pretty much agree with it. But not just for B550, but for all of them.

The compatibility and upgrade options for AM4 are great, but it's also kind of a mess. There's one B550 that appeals to me, the rest are undesired. But it's a bit like that with all of them.. a series of compromises. The reason I care about 4000 series compatibility is because it's the last CPU for AM4 socket.. and years from now, I'll most likely wish I had one. Or to the very least.. I will wish for the potential of that option.. whether it be buying used, at a discounted price.. whatever. It's the strength/advantage of AMD over Intel, but it's become so complicated with so many question marks. And the B550 series doesn't do much to solve it.

By the way, there's more than just a chipset fan issue with X570. There's an idle wattage inefficiency compared to other chipsets, and since I use my CPU 24/7 a lot of the time.. that matters (over the years, the extra wattage adds up). There's also a SATA transfer bottleneck when it comes to random 4k reads and writes. There's been improvements in other things over the last 12 months (PCB, VRM, asthetics), but in a lot of ways, they've gone backwards for my needs. There's more options when it comes to using m.2 drives in raid at high speeds, but outside of that.. some of the other options have regressed. Maybe I should be looking at Threadripper platform and what I/O options are out there but that's a huge jump in price.. when all I really need is 8-16 cores.

So it's a big thumbs up for me on the CPU side, and a big thumbs down on the motherboard/chipset side. I don't even need PCIE4.0, but I need plenty of PCIE and SATA expandability. If you look at the B550 Gigabyte Auros Master, that is the exact polar opposite of what I need. Where as the ASUS Crosshair Hero VI is perfect. Perhaps the answer is to keep the 3000 series CPU and be happy with it, but in a few years the lower latency and extra performance of the 4000 series could be beneficial. While waiting for the DDR5 based systems to improve effeciency and for the price to reduce. On the plus side, I'll have lots of spare parts to build a second "spare parts" Ryzen system, and having two systems is great for troubleshooting if any hardware problems arise. And 5 years from now.. who nows what the motherboards will look like. Who knows if you will even be able to buy a case or a mouse that doesn't have glittering lights all over it.

See I “almost“ bought a Gen4 SSD(MX500) but ended up going Gen3(970 Evo Plus) because despite being just Gen 3 it’s still faster across the board except in reads. So while I can make use of Gen4 it doesn’t actually benefit me in the end. Nor will my 5700XT benefit from a Gen4 slot. Nice to have but offers no ”extras value” or was part of my purchase decision(okay it was until I searched for an M2)
Same, I prefer Samsung Gen3 over the Gen4 options. Samsung will have Gen4 options out soon but they won't be cheap.

AMD have put a whole lot of stock into Gen 4 (with a ton of downsides) that doesn't even have many real world benefits, outside of 4K video editing or other similar things. In a few years, the GPU side might kick in and there might be an advantage but even then, it might only be on the top end GPU's that most can't afford. In the meantime.. it's all a bit "blah" for me.

Something else that's rarely talked about.. is that these m.2 drives run hot vs SATA SSD. The Gen 4 drives run even hotter. Especially if you have a heap of them. Heat inside of a case is a bad thing. Especially for noise. During a game, the GPU fan noise might be blocked by the sound of the game itself but when working on something, there's less noise to cover it up. There's an arguement for SATA SSD, if you don't mind the slower speeds. In terms of Windows loading times, it's not that much slower than M.2 NVME. I went with the same Gen 3 drive as you did (one of them).. but my point is.. I'm not in a rush to add three of them onto a board, having Gen 4 would be even worse. But that seems to be where the motherboards are headed.. where they are assuming that everyone wants to do that.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
19,311 (4.61/day)
Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Personally, I think AMD have done a great job in the last few years with their Ryzen CPU's but sort of messed up the motherboard/chipset side of things, and I've had a hard time finding something that fits my needs. Money isn't an issue, but even without that.. I've had a hard time finding something that fits my needs compared to a 6 year old Haswell motherboard that I've never had a problem with.

X370 is actually my preferred choice in terms of peripherals, USB, SATA, PCIE etc. X470 is good too. Not a fan of X570 (get it? haha). I was going to stay with X370 but AMD said recently they wouldn't support them. Maybe there will be unofficial or beta BIOS. So I picked up a an X470 as a backup. Now I'm looking at B550, and I understand the general premise of this thread and pretty much agree with it. But not just for B550, but for all of them.

The compatibility and upgrade options for AM4 are great, but it's also kind of a mess. There's one B550 that appeals to me, the rest are undesired. But it's a bit like that with all of them.. a series of compromises. The reason I care about 4000 series compatibility is because it's the last CPU for AM4 socket.. and years from now, I'll most likely wish I had one. Or to the very least.. I will wish for the potential of that option.. whether it be buying used, at a discounted price.. whatever. It's the strength/advantage of AMD over Intel, but it's become so complicated with so many question marks. And the B550 series doesn't do much to solve it.

By the way, there's more than just a chipset fan issue with X570. There's an idle wattage inefficiency compared to other chipsets, and since I use my CPU 24/7 a lot of the time.. that matters (over the years, the extra wattage adds up). There's also a SATA transfer bottleneck when it comes to random 4k reads and writes. There's been improvements in other things over the last 12 months (PCB, VRM, asthetics), but in a lot of ways, they've gone backwards for my needs. There's more options when it comes to using m.2 drives in raid at high speeds, but outside of that.. some of the other options have regressed. Maybe I should be looking at Threadripper platform and what I/O options are out there but that's a huge jump in price.. when all I really need is 8-16 cores.

So it's a big thumbs up for me on the CPU side, and a big thumbs down on the motherboard/chipset side. I don't even need PCIE4.0, but I need plenty of PCIE and SATA expandability. If you look at the B550 Gigabyte Auros Master, that is the exact polar opposite of what I need. Where as the ASUS Crosshair Hero VI is perfect. Perhaps the answer is to keep the 3000 series CPU and be happy with it, but in a few years the lower latency and extra performance of the 4000 series could be beneficial. While waiting for the DDR5 based systems to improve effeciency and for the price to reduce. On the plus side, I'll have lots of spare parts to build a second "spare parts" Ryzen system, and having two systems is great for troubleshooting if any hardware problems arise. And 5 years from now.. who nows what the motherboards will look like. Who knows if you will even be able to buy a case or a mouse that doesn't have glittering lights all over it.

Same, I prefer Samsung Gen3 over the Gen4 options. Samsung will have Gen4 options out soon but they won't be cheap.

AMD have put a whole lot of stock into Gen 4 (with a ton of downsides) that doesn't even have many real world benefits, outside of 4K video editing or other similar things. In a few years, the GPU side might kick in and there might be an advantage but even then, it might only be on the top end GPU's that most can't afford. In the meantime.. it's all a bit "blah" for me.

Something else that's rarely talked about.. is that these m.2 drives run hot vs SATA SSD. The Gen 4 drives run even hotter. Especially if you have a heap of them. Heat inside of a case is a bad thing. Especially for noise. During a game, the GPU fan noise might be blocked by the sound of the game itself but when working on something, there's less noise to cover it up. There's an arguement for SATA SSD, if you don't mind the slower speeds. In terms of Windows loading times, it's not that much slower than M.2 NVME. I went with the same Gen 3 drive as you did (one of them).. but my point is.. I'm not in a rush to add three of them onto a board, having Gen 4 would be even worse. But that seems to be where the motherboards are headed.. where they are assuming that everyone wants to do that.
In this wall of text, did you actually mention what you need or what was messed up on the chipsets? I see the mention of a fan... but, on almost all boards they are inaudible and adjustable. Whats the beef?

Idle power use? A couple watts is an issue?

Sata 4k transfer problem? Link...please! :)

What other options have regressed?

What do you actually need that is missing? What are you compromising? I see you mention board A doesnt work, but board B does. Whats tbe dofference?

I'd be more onboard, but this feels like a lot of text with few details.
 

CubanB

New Member
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
19 (0.05/day)
I'm not looking for advice, it's not like I need to you solve my problem. There's not really anyway that anyone can, other than scaling down my expansion options.. which is strange that a 6 year system can do it, an X370 can kind of do it.. but since X470, it's become more and more restrictive. PCI slots, SATA slots, USB slots.. and the combination of these things. It's the advantage of a PC, vs a console or a laptop. The ability to customize or expand.. or have many different options. The Gigabyte flagship B550 doesn't even have a USB3.1 Gen 2 internal header, it's 2020 for pete sake.

What's missing is options.. I don't use my PC soley for gaming. I use it for a bit of everything. Audio editing (or recording), Video editting (or capturing), Media Center with automated recording, network storage, and on and on. Instead, I'll have to be swapping out PCIE all of the time, want a DVB-T2 card? Better take the capture card out, or the audio MIDI card.. etc etc. Perhaps I'm supposed to buy multiple systems, one for audio stuff, one for gaming or video stuff, but I've never had to do this in the past.

What I expect over time is improved efficiency and performance. More options, not less. Better idle performance. Better peak performance. Less power consumption. A constant evolution of improvements.. maybe I'm wrong but I thought this was to be expected and is self explanatory. The CPU's achieve most of these goals (even though the first six months was a bit rough because of the advertised boost speeds and constant AGESA updates), but the motherboards don't.

There seems to be a priority over aesthetics, lights and peak gaming performance, and now.. for some strange reason.. storage speeds, which are kind of important, but also kind of a niche thing. To put it into perspective.. a SATA SSD will load Windows a few seconds slower than a Gen 3 NVME. Four or five to the most. Games.. it's more like a second or two difference. Going from Gen 3 to Gen 4, you're only going to notice it in niche situations like 4K video editing. Benchmark numbers in CrystalDiskMark make the difference seem quite larger but side by side running two PC's at the same time, the difference is quite small for most things. Regressions.. higher idle wattage (and voltage), both from the CPU itself and especially for the motherboards (this is probably fixed in B550), SATA transfer problem (minor but still a thing), higher cost, less SATA or PCIE expansion, and this is unprovable at this point.. but my guess is less longevity in the long term. Because the smaller a fan is, the more prone it is to fail. Even GPU fans aren't ideal but at least ordering replacements is possible. I've only seen Noctua's last the test of time in terms of lasting more than 5 years. It might not be an issue for some people, but throwing a whole GPU or motherboard away into a landfill because a $10 plastic fan doesn't work anymore is very wasteful. As opposed to a hand me down to a family member or selling it on the used market where someone else can make use of it. If it's six years from now and those X570's are going strong, I'll stand corrected.
 
Top