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How can we specify the vcore and yet have adaptive voltage in asus z97 pro-gamer ?

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#1
Hi everyone. I hope you are having a great day/night.
I'm trying to overclock my 4790K mildly since I'm on a Coolermaster Evo212 and intend on using the system 24/7 so it shouldn't get hot or I'll be in trouble.
I intend on making all cores reach 4.4/4.5ghz on turbo boost instead of the default setting which only goes to 4.2ghz when under 100% load.
I checked and set the vcore to 1.180 (and also set CPU system agent offset to 0.020 in caseit was needed) and set all cores ratio to 44. Ran cinebench, ida64, and it was fine. the temps were around 55,59 to 65 69 fluctuating but the vcore stayed just at 1.180 and never went higher.
So far so good. However I noticed when the system is not under load unlike before, the vcore stays unchanged at 1.180! regardless of the frequency .
so my question is , How can I specify the base vcore and also let that decrease when that much power is not needed.
I tried the adaptive mode as well, but noticed under load vcore would reach 1.30/1.31! when it is not overclocked (the default) I noticed the vcore reach 1.28/1.29 at 4.2Ghz on all cores which I guess is alot knowing that on 4.4ghz on all cores under 100% load, vcore 1.18 was doing just fine!
Any way,here is the options I changed, everything is on auto except these sections which are shown in these screenshots:
20181211_102128.jpg

20181211_101841.jpg


Thanks alot in advance
 
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#2
you dont manually set the basic voltage you leave it on auto and use a plus or minus offset...

i seem to remember my 4790k needed something like 1.28 vcore to be stable at 4.6 g on all cores.. it did run quite hot before i de-lidded it..

finding the right minus offset is a process of trial and error..

trog
 

Divinity

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#3
Final voltage is calculated by Additional TurboMode CPU Core Voltage + CPU Core Voltage Offset(which can be negative).

The thing is some CPU with high VID wont allow you to set low voltages using Adaptive mode eg: I had 4690k and in Adaptive mode it would ignore any Vcore I set it Adaptive mode which were less than 1.22V, though it could run 4.1Ghz@1.18V(with Manual Mode). So I used -0.03 offset to get 1.19V, I could set -0.04 offset cos at lower clocks it would become unstable since offset would apply to every clock state and voltage.

When I had 4790k I had no such problem with minimum voltage, perhaps the limit was still there but it was now way lower with this CPU so I could set Adaptive Vcore of 1.16V for 4.4Ghs w\o offset and it would apply. Though I still used offset -0.03v to lower voltage even more at lower frequency, so I just upped vcore by the same margin to compensate. I found -0.03v VCore offset to be stable for all CPUs I had: 4690k, 4790k and 5775c.

So you should try something like that for 1.18V Vcore :

1.png


Ps Also 1.18V for cache maybe too much, try decreasing it. My 4790K could run 1.1Vcache @ 4.0Ghz if I remember correctly) You can use Adaptive voltage for cache as well. Though for cache to be able to clock down you need to manually set Min. CPU Cache Ration to 8. And of course power saving features should be enabled for both CPU and cache to be able to clock down and drop voltages along with it.
 

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#4
change the CPU core voltage from manual mode to offset, and away you go
 
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#5
Final voltage is calculated by Additional TurboMode CPU Core Voltage + CPU Core Voltage Offset(which can be negative).

The thing is some CPU with high VID wont allow you to set low voltages using Adaptive mode eg: I had 4690k and in Adaptive mode it would ignore any Vcore I set it Adaptive mode which were less than 1.22V, though it could run 4.1Ghz@1.18V(with Manual Mode). So I used -0.03 offset to get 1.19V, I could set -0.04 offset cos at lower clocks it would become unstable since offset would apply to every clock state and voltage.

When I had 4790k I had no such problem with minimum voltage, perhaps the limit was still there but it was now way lower with this CPU so I could set Adaptive Vcore of 1.16V for 4.4Ghs w\o offset and it would apply. Though I still used offset -0.03v to lower voltage even more at lower frequency, so I just upped vcore by the same margin to compensate. I found -0.03v VCore offset to be stable for all CPUs I had: 4690k, 4790k and 5775c.

So you should try something like that for 1.18V Vcore :

View attachment 112513

Ps Also 1.18V for cache maybe too much, try decreasing it. My 4790K could run 1.1Vcache @ 4.0Ghz if I remember correctly) You can use Adaptive voltage for cache as well. Though for cache to be able to clock down you need to manually set Min. CPU Cache Ration to 8. And of course power saving features should be enabled for both CPU and cache to be able to clock down and drop voltages along with it.
Thanks a gazillion times sir :) I really appreciate it.
I'm going to give it a try and report back when its done .

OK, I ran some tests but I encountered something wierd.
I selected the Adaptive mode, set them as follows:
CPU core voltage offset : 0.030
Additional Turbo mode CPU core voltage : 1.210
This set the Total Adaptive mode CPU core voltage to1.180 (it was displayed just below the Additional Turbo mode CPU core voltage option, where it says "By CPU")

I set all other options to auto (CPU core ratio was set to SyncAllCores and I used 44 for all of them.)
However when I booted up to windows, I noticed the vcore voltage was at 1.25 at load. it would decrease but at load it would go up and stay at 1.25!
I went back to the bios and increased CPU core voltage offset to 0.050. it reduced the vcore from 1.25 to 1.23 and stayed there! under load.
I stopped and I thought before I mess anything else lets first figure out whats happening and then continue on. thus here I am.
Is it because I didn't set CPU cache voltage ?
Thanks in advance
 
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#6
The CPU hits 4.4 on its own so not sure why you'd set it manually.

On my 4770k, I have VCore set at 1.3875, plus IIRC a + offset, tho can't recall the number. Unless you mess with SpeedStep and C states, it should clock down to 0.8GHz in idle.
 

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#7
However when I booted up to windows, I noticed the vcore voltage was at 1.25 at load. it would decrease but at load it would go up and stay at 1.25!
I went back to the bios and increased CPU core voltage offset to 0.050. it reduced the vcore from 1.25 to 1.23 and stayed there! under load.
Like I said I've encountered same problem with my 4690k - it won't allow me to set voltages below certain value(1.22) using adaptive voltage - it simply wont apply just like in your case: it is shown properly when you input values, but after saving and restarting it is higher again, my guess its the same situation here. Try setting 1.30 + 0 offset and see if it will be 1.3v under load to make sure LLC level is fine. Then go down to 1.280v+ 0 offset (judging by your numbers your mobo applies that value) to make sure. If 1.28 is indeed your minimal voltage with Adaptive mode then find safe negative offset. If -0.05 is stable consider yourself lucky, cos I found -0.05 to be unstable when CPU clocks down on all CPU I had, only -0.03 was stable. Though cache offset of -0.05 was OK)))

Increase CPU clock so that extra voltage (eg: 1.28v + offset -0.05 = 1.23v final) won't be a waste. Considering your 4790k can work 4.4ghz@1.18v I'd try 4.6Ghz@1.23v, though it might require a bit more, if needed increase by 0.005v to make it stable

Is it because I didn't set CPU cache voltage ?
No, cache voltage has nothing to do with it. Still it is better to adjust it just the same.
 
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#8
The CPU hits 4.4 on its own so not sure why you'd set it manually.
Under load, all four would be clocked at 4.2. its only 4.4 on one core.
On my 4770k, I have VCore set at 1.3875, plus IIRC a + offset, tho can't recall the number. Unless you mess with SpeedStep and C states, it should clock down to 0.8GHz in idle.
Like I said I've encountered same problem with my 4690k - it won't allow me to set voltages below certain value(1.22) using adaptive voltage - it simply wont apply just like in your case: it is shown properly when you input values, but after saving and restarting it is higher again, my guess its the same situation here. Try setting 1.30 + 0 offset and see if it will be 1.3v under load to make sure LLC level is fine. Then go down to 1.280v+ 0 offset (judging by your numbers your mobo applies that value) to make sure. If 1.28 is indeed your minimal voltage with Adaptive mode then find safe negative offset. If -0.05 is stable consider yourself lucky, cos I found -0.05 to be unstable when CPU clocks down on all CPU I had, only -0.03 was stable. Though cache offset of -0.05 was OK)))

Increase CPU clock so that extra voltage (eg: 1.28v + offset -0.05 = 1.23v final) won't be a waste. Considering your 4790k can work 4.4ghz@1.18v I'd try 4.6Ghz@1.23v, though it might require a bit more, if needed increase by 0.005v to make it stable



No, cache voltage has nothing to do with it. Still it is better to adjust it just the same.
Great. Thanks a lot again :) .I'll give it a try and see how it goes.
 
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#9
CPU core voltage offset : 0.030
Additional Turbo mode CPU core voltage : 1.210
This set the Total Adaptive mode CPU core voltage to1.180 (it was displayed just below the Additional Turbo mode CPU core voltage option, where it says "By CPU")
1.210 + 0.030 = 1.240. Which is close to that 1.250v you get in windows? Your psu can give more or less with an offset. So yes, trial and error to get to that vcore you need for your overclock.
If you do 1.210 + 0.050 you could be around 1.270v. You have to test this though in windows, with prime95 for example. At first you will bluescreen or lockup, Then you will see some workers quit, a sign you're getting closer. And eventually you will be stable.
Keep an eye out for vdroop, could be your vcore drops when under load, causing instability.

ps. Don't use your motherboard bios for checking voltages. They will always be different compared to windows.
Trial and error, setting your values, booting into windows, stressing the cpu, crashing, booting again into bios and rinse and repat.
 
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#10
Like I said I've encountered same problem with my 4690k - it won't allow me to set voltages below certain value(1.22) using adaptive voltage - it simply wont apply just like in your case: it is shown properly when you input values, but after saving and restarting it is higher again, my guess its the same situation here. Try setting 1.30 + 0 offset and see if it will be 1.3v under load to make sure LLC level is fine. Then go down to 1.280v+ 0 offset (judging by your numbers your mobo applies that value) to make sure. If 1.28 is indeed your minimal voltage with Adaptive mode then find safe negative offset. If -0.05 is stable consider yourself lucky, cos I found -0.05 to be unstable when CPU clocks down on all CPU I had, only -0.03 was stable. Though cache offset of -0.05 was OK)))

Increase CPU clock so that extra voltage (eg: 1.28v + offset -0.05 = 1.23v final) won't be a waste. Considering your 4790k can work 4.4ghz@1.18v I'd try 4.6Ghz@1.23v, though it might require a bit more, if needed increase by 0.005v to make it stable



No, cache voltage has nothing to do with it. Still it is better to adjust it just the same.
Great. Thanks a lot again :) .I'll give it a try and see how it goes.
1.210 + 0.030 = 1.240. Which is close to that 1.250v you get in windows? Your psu can give more or less with an offset. So yes, trial and error to get to that vcore you need for your overclock.
If you do 1.210 + 0.050 you could be around 1.270v. You have to test this though in windows, with prime95 for example. At first you will bluescreen or lockup, Then you will see some workers quit, a sign you're getting closer. And eventually you will be stable.
Keep an eye out for vdroop, could be your vcore drops when under load, causing instability.

ps. Don't use your motherboard bios for checking voltages. They will always be different compared to windows.
Trial and error, setting your values, booting into windows, stressing the cpu, crashing, booting again into bios and rinse and repat.
OK. here are my findings.
I noticed there are 3 vcore thresholds that motherboard uses in the adaptive mode, at least its what it seems. The minimum is 1.230, the next is 1.250 and the third one is 1.28.
I mean if I set an effective vcore smaller than 1.230, the motherboard wont go any lower. it will stick to the 1.230.
If I specify a voltage that is bigger than 1.23 but smaller than 1.250, it will be set to 1.250 (there was only one instance that it was successfully set to 1.240 and I will say how)
if the specified effective vcore voltage is more than 1.250, it will switch to 1.280 when I log in to the Windows and run some apps.
I noticed if I try to add the offset to a base vcore, it wont work. meaning if I set the "Additional Turbo mode CPU core voltage" (I'll call it ATM vcore for short) to sth like 1.22 and set the offset to 0.1, it will not become 1.23, instead it will become 1.280.
I mean, if I use +, it will always use more voltage, and it will ignore the ATM vcore + offset that I specified.
The only way I could achieve different voltages was to use - sign. I would specify the ATM vcore to 1.250 e.g. and then use the offset of 0.050. This way it would be set to 1.230 and wouldnt go any higher.
In order to achieve 1.250 or 1.240 or 1.260, I would have to set ATM vcore to 1.280 and use a -0.040 offset.
It was wierd but that was what I found out.
I set 4.5gig with vcore of 1.23 stable . I ran 4.6gig on 1.23 as well for two hours (using prime 95 26.6 without any crash.) but when I tried the newest version, it said there was an error on one of the workers and couple of seconds later it crashed.(BSODed)! I increased the voltage to 1.250 and it seems it works fine with older prime 95 but the newer version might have a bug! (the app crashed!)
I tried 4.8 as a test with 1.280 with no offset (actually with - 0.001), which BSODed when running the latest prime 95. I did not try any higher clocks after that.
I am currently using the 4.5gig at 1.230. the idle temps are 29/30~33. and under full load they were around 64/68~75/77 and rarely 83 (on one core and for a moment ) .
So it looks fine. I would love to make it to 4.6 on 1.23 or even 1.250 but I dont know if the higher frequency would result in more heat or not.
I mean is it only the voltage that creates the heat or the frequency is also responsible ?
I'm Thinking to myself if my default settings consumed 1.28 voltage and it reached 70/80 degrees, will it be fine having the same voltage with higher clocks?, since previously 4.2 would consume 1.280, and now for example 4.7 consumes the very same amount and the temps should be the same! is this thought correct or wrong?
Thanks in advance again .
 
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#11
as i said while back the 4790k chip i had needed 1.28 to be genuinely stable at 4.6 g... in the end the limiter is heat.. 80 C or so wont hurt the cpu..

voltage and speed creates the heat but its mainly the voltage needed for that extra 100 mhz or so.. it goes up exponentially once you go past the chips sweet spot..

prime95 is not a good tester.. it will create more heat than anything else does.. unless you are in the habit of running it a lot take the temps it gives you with pinch of salt..

i run real temp.. it records the highest temps the cpu gets to.. i have just been playing ashes of the singularity.. real temp tells me my 8700K got to just under 90 C on its hottest core.. this is at 4.9 G..

the intel chip will start to throttle down at 100 C.. my chip will run fine at 5.2 but it gets way too hot at the voltage needed for stability at that speed.. heat is the ultimate limiter..

common sense wise you wont notice the odd 100 mhz or so.. but it all comes down to how hot you are prepared the run the chip.. which also comes down to your cooler..

trog
 
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