How many fans do you have on your PC case?

[Tomgang]

That's quite a fan club tomgang.

My new pc has much less than my old since i swapped to just pushers on my two rads.
10 in total including the psu fan.
3x120 unrestricted in's, 6x 120 restricted by rad outs.

Range of fan speeds from nice to wtf depending on use.

Yeah that is alot of fans. But it´s needed for the summers we have had in my country the last two years and still alow for a high oc on CPU/GPU and then i overclock the crap out of it as well for benchmark.

You can see my setup here. There is a good mix of ghetto mod and exsperimenting on cooling. But it works great.

http://imgur.com/a/NLahrg9

 

[Bill_Bright]

Now don't go interjecting a bunch of "what ifs"

if you have that particular case.

And then you did just that. And you failed to specify your definition of "better".

Cooler temps do NOT automatically mean "better". When a processor (or any heat sensitive device) is properly cooled and temps are already being maintained comfortably within its normal operating range, providing cooler temperatures will NOT improve performance or stability nor will it ensure a longer lifespan.

Does anybody think louder fan noise is better? I don't think so. So achieving and maintaining adequate cooling (even at the risk of sacrificing a few degrees of cooling) while reducing fan noise is always "better"!

 

[dirtyferret]

And then you did just that.

guilty

And you failed to specify your definition of "better".

I would say in general my definition would be lower CPU & GPU temps while holding noise to minimal levels (even noise varies per person) but that is just my definition. There are so many definitions and all are correct depending on the user.

one can argue using stock fans is better because you spend no extra money.
one can argue using an extra generic $10 fan is better because it costs just $10 and lowers temps
one can argue using a $30 fan is better because it lowers temps an extra 2-4c then the $10 fan
one can argue using a 1000rpm fan is better as makes no noise and cools well (I would assume this is also your definition of better)
one can argue using a 3000rpm fan is better better as it performs better then the 1000rpm fan even if it makes a ton of noise
one can argue lower GPU temps is better (as in the GN example above) at the cost of CPU temps
one can argue lower CPU temps is better at the cost of GPU temps
this list can go on and on

 

[Chrispy_]

Sorry, but that is not true at all. It is all about how loud they are - and not just the hum of the fan motor, or the noise the bearings make as they spin, or the sound of air molecules moving past (and banging into) the fan housing. It is also about the noise of the air molecules banging on the blades and the noise the blades make when "chopping" through the air!

It really is all about understanding the most important principles of aerodynamics - just like what goes into the design of air plane wings and propellers (propeller blades are - in effect - just spinning wings). "Quality" fans use advanced designs in their blades and are highly sophisticated pieces of aerodynamic technology, designed to move the maximum amount of air while making the least amount of noise.

It is much more than the design and construction of the motor that determines how loud or quiet a fan will be. And I'm not even counting the noise caused by the fan vibrating due to the inevitable imperfections of the bearings or the channels they run in. Nor am I talking about the vibration noise caused by the inevitable imperfections in the "balance" of the multiple blades.

In fact, the design of the blades is a much more complicated and technical process - at least with quality fans. The investments that go into the research and design of the blades is one of the main reasons quality fans cost so much. It is NOT just about the motor or the type and precision manufacturing of the bearings.

Yes, the slower the blades spin, the lower the noise the fan makes. But that is much more due to less air moving past and through the fan than the noise of the fan motor itself (again, at least with quality fans).

The biggest impact on our ability to hear the "hum" of a fan at lower RPMs is most likely the "drone" from the ambient noise in our environment. That is, the background "din" in our homes and offices drown out the noise of our fans when they spin at slower RPMs.

And for the record, the typical range of human hearing extends way down to 20Hz (20 cycles per second) for "normal" people and down to 12Hz for those with exceptional hearing. Even the slowest spinning case fans spin at several hundred RPMs.

While humans tend to lose our ability to hear higher frequencies as we age, the ability to hear low frequencies changes little.

So yes, it really is all about how loud they are in relation to the rotation speed in relation to the amount of air each blade scoops up and pushes through with each rotation.

Wrong. You made the incorrect assumption that my generalisation had anything to do with different fan blade designs, qualities or fan, or in fact anything except size.

1. Pick a fan, any fan. As long as there are different sized variants of the same fan it honestly doesn't matter.
2. Look up the noise, rpm, cfm, and static pressure of two different variants of that particular fan.

It's not something you have to argue. Here, take Corsair's rather excellent maglev fans as an example:

• 120mm 37dBA is at 2400 RPM (280Hz) producing 75 CFM.
• 140mm 37dBA is at 2000 RPM (233Hz) producing 97 CFM.

That's a like-for-like comparison and the exact same design shows that the smaller fan produces less airflow for the same noise level. And those figures are already weighted for human hearing response (dBA) so the frequency doesn't matter here. When talking about how a larger fan can sound quieter than a smaller fan, even though the blade tips might be moving just as fast through the air and creating as much chop noise, the absolute noise level (dB) will be the same, but since the lower rotational speeds produce that absolute noise at a lower frequency, it is perceptually quieter on the weighted (dBA) scale, adjusted for human hearing.

 

[Keullo-e]

One intake, one exhaust and two on both 240 radiators = six.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Wrong. You made the incorrect assumption that my generalisation had anything to do with different fan blade designs, qualities or fan, or in fact anything except size.

No I am not wrong. And no I did not make an incorrect assumption because, as I explained, it IS all about design and qualities.

And your Corsair example just illustrates my point. It is NOT a like-for-like comparision! You made an incorrect assumption by assuming it is all about "equal" noise. It is not. It is about "cooling effectiveness" and cooling effectiveness is all about the amount of air a fan moves. Lower the speed of that 140mm fan so that it moves an equal amount of air as the 120mm fan (75 CFM) and guess what? The amount of noise that fan produces will drop correspondingly while maintaining an equal amount of cooling effectiveness.

And of course the frequency matters - because we are talking about human hearing response. As you correctly noted, the specs are weighted for human hearing. If the fan noise is up in the 30KHz region, then you would be right and the frequency would not matter - only our pet dogs could hear it.

Edit comment: Corrected typo

 

[Anzlew]

Hi.
My case is equipped with 5 fans:
IN - 3x120mm Noctua NF-S12; OUT: 140mm Akasa Viper + CoolerMaster SickleFlow 120 Blue LED.
All are controlled by NZXT Sentry 3 with thermal sensor installed under VRM heatsink.
On quiet and power mode it runs very quiet. On 100% only the 140mm is noise is irritiating. The rest is just humming. It is audible but not disturbing.
Reducing the Akasa speed to 90% eliminates the issue.
If anybody knows a good replacement for the Akasa I would be pleased to hear about it. But because already noticeable overpressure I prefer the efficency over noise.

 

[Chrispy_]

No I am not wrong. And no I did not make an incorrect assumption because, as I explained, it IS all about design and qualities.

I didn't even bring that up. You did. At no point did I mention design or qualities. You're having an argument with yourself ffs.

Lower the speed of that 140mm fan so that it moves an equal amount of air as the 120mm fan (75 CFM) and guess what? The amount of noise that fan produces will drop correspondingly while maintaining an equal amount of cooling effectiveness.

Are you for real? That's what I said originally before you went off on a full-page rant.

Bigger fans are better, IMO since they can spin slower for the same airflow.

See. You're literally paraphrasing my original comment as your counterargument.
If you're trying to troll you suck at it.

 

[flmatter]

OK... then...
Back on topic I have 2 case fans, both intake and let everything vent naturally out the top or back of my case. One is 140 and the other is 120.

 

[Splinterdog]

Hi.
My case is equipped with 5 fans:
IN - 3x120mm Noctua NF-S12; OUT: 140mm Akasa Viper + CoolerMaster SickleFlow 120 Blue LED.
All are controlled by NZXT Sentry 3 with thermal sensor installed under VRM heatsink.
On quiet and power mode it runs very quiet. On 100% only the 140mm is noise is irritiating. The rest is just humming. It is audible but not disturbing.
Reducing the Akasa speed to 90% eliminates the issue.
If anybody knows a good replacement for the Akasa I would be pleased to hear about it. But because already noticeable overpressure I prefer the efficency over noise.
View attachment 131817

You've just given me an idea of where to add a spare RGB fan from a four-pack I bought yesterday - on the bottom of the case. The only thing is that I'd need to move the SSD cage, but I'm sure there's a way.
Bananas for scale only.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I didn't even bring that up. You did.

Yes and you said it was wrong. It was not. You said "it is not about how load they are" when clearly it is. Go back to my first post #13 on page one and get caught up on the flow of this thread.

 

[Splinterdog]

I'd be interested to know what people use to control fan speed.
Prior to fitting these new fans, I had three (3 pin) connected to the fan controller on the case which has three simple settings- slow, medium and fast.
Now that the new ones are connected to the mobo headers, I tried Asus AI Suite (Fan Expert) to create a fan curve, but the software is either bugged or conflicts with something else and turned off the PC, so I removed it.
I then set the fan curve to silent in the UEFI and all is now well.
I wish Asus would get its act together with their software - Aura works with the new RGB fans, but only because I rolled back to an older version, but it's still bugged.

 

[Chrispy_]

Stop misquoting me - Especially out of context. I did not say your first post #13 was wrong at all. That was an argument you were having with dirtyferret long before I even joined this thread. Bringing that up is just another straw man from you.

You quite clearly stated

Sorry, but that is not true at all.

...when actually, what I'm saying is fact and I'm about to show you.
Here's the human hearing frequency graph:

A 2400rpm 7-blade fan with 3-phase motor: peak motor noise at 120Hz and blades noise peaking at 280Hz.
A 1600rpm 7-blade fan with 3-phase motor: peak motor noise at 80Hz and blades noise peaking at 187Hz.

Those are the speeds the otherwise identical ML-120 and ML-140 need to spin at to produce 75 CMF, respectively. You'll notice that dB SPL is on a very steep gradient in the 80-280Hz range I just brought up for those Corsair fans. The gradients of these curves are the very basis of the adjusted, dBA-weighting commonly used to represent noise levels. You imply that you understand the difference between dB and dBA and then dismiss it as if it's not important.

The fact that bigger fans spin more slowly is super-important because human hearing sensitivity starts to drop off sharply from around 500Hz. Relative to the sound pressure level a fan is generating, humans are practically deaf to low-decibel sound in the last few hundred Hz of our hearing range. Even a 2400rpm fan is making the bulk of its noise well below the threshold where human hearing drops off into near-uselessness.

the slower the blades spin, the lower the noise the fan makes. But that is much more due to less air moving past and through the fan than the noise of the fan motor itself

Wait, what now? You've managed to dismantle your own argument twice, in just one sentence.

1. Less air moving through the fan? Uh no. The slower ML-140 pushes more air than the faster ML-120, not less because it's bigger, of course. I linked the specs directly in my last post. If you want to dispute that with Corsair, be my guest.
2. You dismissed the fan motor itself as the noise source and drifted into three separate straw man fallacies about quality aerodynamic blade design, fan vibrations, research costs. Now you're saying that it's NOT those things, but that the lower noise is the fan motor itself.

The biggest impact on our ability to hear the "hum" of a fan at lower RPMs is most likely the "drone" from the ambient noise in our environment. That is, the background "din" in our homes and offices drown out the noise of our fans when they spin at slower RPMs.

And here we have straw man number five.
What does your noisy home have to do with anything? If you can hear a fan it's above the ambient noise floor. Stop assmuing that other people's homes and offices are too noisy to hear fans.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

And then you did just that. And you failed to specify your definition of "better".

Cooler temps do NOT automatically mean "better". When a processor (or any heat sensitive device) is properly cooled and temps are already being maintained comfortably within its normal operating range, providing cooler temperatures will NOT improve performance or stability nor will it ensure a longer lifespan.

Does anybody think louder fan noise is better? I don't think so. So achieving and maintaining adequate cooling (even at the risk of sacrificing a few degrees of cooling) while reducing fan noise is always "better"!

I think his point was that cooling can vary depending on a lot use and positioning in the case and is certainly a personal thing since some aim for different outcomes

I'd be interested to know what people use to control fan speed.
Prior to fitting these new fans, I had three (3 pin) connected to the fan controller on the case which has three simple settings- slow, medium and fast.
Now that the new ones are connected to the mobo headers, I tried Asus AI Suite (Fan Expert) to create a fan curve, but the software is either bugged or conflicts with something else and turned off the PC, so I removed it.
I then set the fan curve to silent in the UEFI and all is now well.
I wish Asus would get its act together with their software - Aura works with the new RGB fans, but only because I rolled back to an older version, but it's still bugged.

I used similar , ai suite has had buggy fan control forever, i discarded it via an mcubed fan controller for years on a crosshair V for the same reasons i hate the hero 7 ,the fans don't always react to heat using aisuite , I've had more luck uninstalling all asus soft and using manual bios fan curves but now I use a Corsair commander , it's not bad but not without issues since sometimes Ique it's software ,glitches out.
The mcubed Tbalancer worked best, programmable fan curves ,set and forget and seperate from the os and pc ,sort of ie no live linked control(possible but using causes issues) and it worked flawlessly.

 

[Splinterdog]

I have iCue, but it only works with Corsair products, so I'm currently using the UEFI fan control.
Anyway, since AI Suite literally turned my PC off without warning or errors, I never got anywhere with it. It worked last year, so it could be a Windows update issue.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I have iCue, but it only works with Corsair products, so I'm currently using the UEFI fan control.
Anyway, since AI Suite literally turned my PC off without warning or errors, I never got anywhere with it. It worked last year, so it could be a Windows update issue.

Well comically when I upgraded cpu i retested asus software, it's actually still on.
They did not auto install aisuite , it's installed it's system process for fan control but asus grid will not install aisuite , if I want it i have to install an older version manually , says a lot.

I remember not long ago they had a security issue with it or something, they need to do a lot of work on it no doubt.

Corsair's commander does always react and control fans ok, worth a look ,comes with four sensor points and includes sensors , the issue i have now and again is that features ie the performance tab goes missing in IQue but even then it does still react and work, it just takes a reboot to get the adjustment tab back.
It's got profiles so i have a few for different tasks like chillin ,gaming or benching.

Which also adjusts rgb from off to subtle to rainbow puke danger in bench mode, rainbow puke grows on you i swear.

 

[Calmmo]

2 Cases
Cosmos Pure Black with x4 Akasa fans (no clue what model) 120mm fans, 1 front+1bottom for intake, 1 top+rear exhaust
Phanteks P400s, with 2 intake LL corsair 2 exhaust stock case fans.

Soon™ EvolvX system with x4 NF-A14 fans +I guess the 2 AIO fans? those being ML140's

 

[Splinterdog]

Well comically when I upgraded cpu i retested asus software, it's actually still on.
They did not auto install aisuite , it's installed it's system process for fan control but asus grid will not install aisuite , if I want it i have to install an older version manually , says a lot.

I remember not long ago they had a security issue with it or something, they need to do a lot of work on it no doubt.

Corsair's commander does always react and control fans ok, worth a look ,comes with four sensor points and includes sensors , the issue i have now and again is that features ie the performance tab goes missing in IQue but even then it does still react and work, it just takes a reboot to get the adjustment tab back.
It's got profiles so i have a few for different tasks like chillin ,gaming or benching.

Which also adjusts rgb from off to subtle to rainbow puke danger in bench mode, rainbow puke grows on you i swear.

But Corsair Commander is yet another piece of hardware, isn't it?

 

[Enterprise24]

3x Gentle Typhoon AP-15 1850 RPM as front intake (2x on radiator and 1x pure intake).
3x EK Vardar 1850 RPM as top exhaust (all of them on radiator).
2x 120mm stock H440 fans blow over GPU VRM and VRAM.
1x generic 60mm fan blow over motherboard VRM.
1x generic 60mm fan blow over RAM.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

But Corsair Commander is yet another piece of hardware, isn't it?

Yes , something else to fit in and hide

 

[Joss]

1 Position your case away from walls/solid surfaces so that the fans (either intake or exhaust) aren't choked.
2 Position your case away from heat sources (windows, heaters)
3 Use a well ventilated case

Considering how number 3 is almost impossible nowadays, and how many of you position your cases (one can see that from "post pics of your battlestations" type of forums) no wonder this thread is full of 5/6 fan setups most of which, I bet, wouldn't need more than 1 intake/1 exhaust

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

1 Position your case away from walls/solid surfaces so that the fans (either intake or exhaust) aren't choked.
2 Position your case away from heat sources (windows, heaters)
3 Use a well ventilated case

Considering how number 3 is almost impossible nowadays, and how many of you position your cases (one can see that from "post pics of your battlestations" type of forums) no wonder this thread is full of 5/6 fan setups most of which, I bet, wouldn't need more than 1 intake/1 exhaust

I disagree, this is an enthusiast forum , many of these systems are running beyond spec.

And a well ventilated case is now easy to find , i used to cut holes in cases, no more.

1 in one out is for stock, just about speeds and if you can maintain the boost clocks with that long term you have a low end Gpu ,simple.

 

[Vario]

Hi.
My case is equipped with 5 fans:
IN - 3x120mm Noctua NF-S12; OUT: 140mm Akasa Viper + CoolerMaster SickleFlow 120 Blue LED.
All are controlled by NZXT Sentry 3 with thermal sensor installed under VRM heatsink.
On quiet and power mode it runs very quiet. On 100% only the 140mm is noise is irritiating. The rest is just humming. It is audible but not disturbing.
Reducing the Akasa speed to 90% eliminates the issue.
If anybody knows a good replacement for the Akasa I would be pleased to hear about it. But because already noticeable overpressure I prefer the efficency over noise.
View attachment 131817

The 140mm top fan labeled 188M³ /H looks like it is the wrong direction, as an intake rather than exhaust, and that would be why its rattling and dying and your case is overpressurized. I drew a blue box around this fan in MSpaint, see the pic below (the top left corner).

You probably do NOT even need a fan there, try removing it and leaving an empty slot and see if temperatures change. It probably adds turbulence to your CPU heatsink which impairs cooling.

The upper part of the case might even run cooler if the 140mm hole was blocked so the air has only one way to flow: Out the back. You could test it by putting a book or other object on the roof and see how temperature and noise change.

More fans is not better. Particularly if you have a fan that flows the wrong way so all the fans in the case are pressurizing from different directions and fighting that fan.

 

[Splinterdog]

In terms of dust and other debris, positioning your case on the floor, particularly on a deep shag carpet isn't really a good idea either. Our house is quite dusty due to a busy street and crappy windows, even though the floor is tiled, but I have my PC raised at least 18" on a small table which means there are less fan and filters cleaning to do.
I think Joss may be referring to the bog-standard beige variety.

 

[freeagent]

I'd be interested to know what people use to control fan speed.

I have my two front 120x38s spliced together, and top 120x38s are spliced together and are plugged into my Define R4 controller, which I have sticky tacked in place from the inside of the case, but the switch is accessible from the front, right beside the middle fan. The rear fan is not the same as the others, and runs at 12v surprisingly quiet, so that just runs off of a mobo header at the full 12v. The hdd bay gets a stock Fractal 120mm fan and it too just gets the full 12v off a mobo header. Gotta be careful in the dark if I reach for that switch lol those fronts have some brutality to them. My TY-143 is on a custom curve which ramps at 60c.