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How many of you Radeon 5700 owners have ditched your cards over the drivers?

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Of course it does go deeper. An ocean of possibilities and things that can go wrong. I'm just trying to tell you about inexperienced users and what they will say about an event or a problem. it will always be a driver issue and we can see it clearly now. It is not necessarily that. That is all and the numbers you mentioned earlier are not putting this aspect into consideration when spitting out a value.
Sure... however, BOTH SIDES have this 'issue' so in the end it is a net wash and, IMO, not relevant since both sides are afflicted with ID10T/PEBKAC problems.

Also, AMD's long list of fixes over the past several driver releases are CONFIRMED issues from AMD... not 'install at stock and rebuild the overclock' or 'must ddu to install these drivers'... etc (remind me why this has, for amd, become necessary??).
 
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bug

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Of course the cause matters. If AMD used a bad reference cooler, that is easy for a non-biased customer to make a judgement on the issue—“it’s a fast card, but it’s way too loud.” Having constant crashes and/or hardware failures is a much bigger issue—“this card just doesn’t work well at all.” It also leads to how experts can advise potential buyers—“should I buy a 5700?” The answer would either be “yes, but get a non-blower model,” or ”no, the card is unreliable.” We have discussions like this all the time where you may just need to avoid a particular brand. The discussion is about the reliability of this card, and so far my early conclusion is, just don’t get the blower version if noise is a concern.
This is a non-argument. Users are returning the cards. If you want to split hairs, go convince the users returning the cards. Convincing me won't make the disappointed users consider buying the same anytime soon.
 
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Of course it does go deeper. An ocean of possibilities and things that can go wrong. I'm just trying to tell you about inexperienced users and what they will say about an event or a problem. it will always be a driver issue and we can see it clearly now. It is not necessarily that. That is all and the numbers you mentioned earlier are not putting this aspect into consideration when spitting out a value.
I'm running everything stock and had one black screen crash while I had Firefox and Chrome open sitting idle on the desktop. It basically hard locked the PC.

Just the other day I had to do a factory reset install on my driver package cause I had random stuttering pop-up out of nowhere in World of Tanks that I play regularly and that on the very same day.
Probably Chill settings had gone wonky as it only stuttered when there was mouse input... sadly cannot confirm as disabling or changing Chill setting did not fix the issue. For now I'm leaving everything on default values for now, bar the hotkey binds.

These issues in hadware terms are relatively wide spread. Covering fair bit of hardware variation including AMD & Intel CPUs, stock or OC seemingly does not matter.
People not being able to use their graphics cards with software as mundane and common as a webbrowser with HW acceleration enabled, that being Chrome / Chromium with around 75% marketshare... it just does not fly man.

AMD / RTG driver team should've went into hardcore stability & reliability patching mode right before or just after NAVI launched for the public and kept its focus on fixing stuff.
Instead we got a nice new shiny UI for their Control Panel which has it's own set of problems that might be the very cause for some of the issues that NAVI owners are facing.

Hoping we'll get a big fix driver package in the form of 20.3.1... and that would be even a bit late to be honest.
 

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Opposite to turing GPUs artifacting or dying, most Navi RMAs should be related to bad drivers and users not knowing how to proper clean uninstall-install them. My 5c.
Yup not faulty hardware, cough 970s/80s dying recently...

Of course the cause matters. If AMD used a bad reference cooler, that is easy for a non-biased customer to make a judgement on the issue—“it’s a fast card, but it’s way too loud.” Having constant crashes and/or hardware failures is a much bigger issue—“this card just doesn’t work well at all.” It also leads to how experts can advise potential buyers—“should I buy a 5700?” The answer would either be “yes, but get a non-blower model,” or ”no, the card is unreliable.” We have discussions like this all the time where you may just need to avoid a particular brand. The discussion is about the reliability of this card, and so far my early conclusion is, just don’t get the blower version if noise is a concern.
Never had a problem with reference cards...
 
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I just did. Tired of the BS. Random reboots? Wtf?
AMD basically uploading a RAT/trojan bundled with the drivers you can't unbundle? What kinda crap is that?
The drivers don't even work properly and they add invasive crap on top of it? This is fail.
Oh, you can get rid of the excess, but then you have no video options as well.
No idea where to go from here. Instinct says wait.
:Knock on wood: I will not buy or download any more AMD products or drivers that are about being all up in your Facebook and social media and have popups in the middle of your game n stuff.
That's ridiculous.
Yeah, I'm mad. :mad:
The hardware is fine, the software is crap piled on top of crap.
AMD GPU drivers are like chicken poop. Their bundled BS is like the white stuff on top of chicken poop.
What's that white stuff on top of chicken poop? Chicken poop.
 
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This is a non-argument. Users are returning the cards. If you want to split hairs, go convince the users returning the cards. Convincing me won't make the disappointed users consider buying the same anytime soon.
Sorry to offend you. I’m merely working from my own experience, which I guess doesn’t carry much weight with you. Personally, I like the data point of the return reason. It’s just more facts to help inform my opinion.
 
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Oh and a FYI, there was plenty of Nvidia drivers that bricked or fried GPUs almost every year, some even pulled out of circulation by Nvidia.
Lies.

ohh I totally disagree with that. If the CPU is a brain of the computer and graphics is it's eyes then analogically to the software, windows is a brain and graphics driver is its eyes. i hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
I understand that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yup not faulty hardware, cough 970s/80s dying recently...
Hey look whataboutism.
 
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In the same way I expect game devs to do their job. If a game has a bug and its clearly not a GPU problem, I expect a patch. Yesterday, really. After all, how did that bug pass testing? What does it say about a company's internal processes. In my line of work... I should try bringing new stuff to a production environment untested for once... I can pack my bags a day after.
I agree to the point where game bugs are the game devs' responsibility, and drivers should not do any workarounds at all.
But it is however the driver's responsibility to handle "misbehaving" applications, to the extent that it doesn't crash the driver and the OS. And in this regard there is a huge difference in driver quality between AMD and Nvidia.
 
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I understand that you have no idea what you're talking about
It's just an example to show something and expand on a thought to add to the conversation. Chillax.
I'm running everything stock and had one black screen crash while I had Firefox and Chrome open sitting idle on the desktop. It basically hard locked the PC.

Just the other day I had to do a factory reset install on my driver package cause I had random stuttering pop-up out of nowhere in World of Tanks that I play regularly and that on the very same day.
Probably Chill settings had gone wonky as it only stuttered when there was mouse input... sadly cannot confirm as disabling or changing Chill setting did not fix the issue. For now I'm leaving everything on default values for now, bar the hotkey binds.

These issues in hadware terms are relatively wide spread. Covering fair bit of hardware variation including AMD & Intel CPUs, stock or OC seemingly does not matter.
People not being able to use their graphics cards with software as mundane and common as a webbrowser with HW acceleration enabled, that being Chrome / Chromium with around 75% marketshare... it just does not fly man.

AMD / RTG driver team should've went into hardcore stability & reliability patching mode right before or just after NAVI launched for the public and kept its focus on fixing stuff.
Instead we got a nice new shiny UI for their Control Panel which has it's own set of problems that might be the very cause for some of the issues that NAVI owners are facing.

Hoping we'll get a big fix driver package in the form of 20.3.1... and that would be even a bit late to be honest.
Well I don't want to repeat myself but I had a black screen. It was not because of the driver but the driver crashed because of the application. 3 days later app update problem gone and nothing changed with my graphics set up nor driver. My friends have the 5000 series never had any problems.
Not sure what wide spread hardware issues you are talking about.
There is not big fix. There's features adjustments AMD put into the driver and maybe certain games get some other stuff done but that is all.
The GCN and RDNA are backwards compatible. It has been said hundreds of times. Yet you still wait for a big driver fix.
I agree to the point where game bugs are the game devs' responsibility, and drivers should not do any workarounds at all.
But it is however the driver's responsibility to handle "misbehaving" applications, to the extent that it doesn't crash the driver and the OS. And in this regard there is a huge difference in driver quality between AMD and Nvidia.
You say that driver should handle misbehaving apps so it wont crash? The app is crashing the driver, why it is the drivers responsibility to handle the application's abnormal behavior?
I disagree with that.
Why driver should handle that? Graphics card and the driver are responsible for picture on your screen, rendering etc. Nothing more aside that.
Don't want to mention again but NV users have also experienced black screens and yet NV driver is OK. So I'm not sure what you guys are after.
So if Windows API like DirectX crashes the driver because it is broken the graphics card should handle the misbehaving API and fix it or workaround it?
There is a difference because the NV and AMD got different cards and maybe they do stuff differently. I totally disagree with what you said and I can see that a lot of you guys here, expect the unexpected from the graphics drivers no matter which company it comes from.
 
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My friends have the 5000 series never had any problems.
Interesting... then 95% of NAVI owners that visit the hungarian hardware forum I tend to had some sort of problem, and all of them say that 19.12.1 was the best driver package for them. Weird eh?

Not sure what wide spread hardware issues you are talking about.
I meant that the very same problems are present in a lot of systems, with a lots of hardware variation. Effectively pointing to the one common denominator AMD's driver package... or worse case that there are a lot of defective cards that seemingly work just fine in games but can not handle swapping tabs in Chrome...

There is not big fix. There's features adjustments AMD put into the driver and maybe certain games get some other stuff done but that is all.
The GCN and RDNA are backwards compatible. It has been said hundreds of times. Yet you still wait for a big driver fix.
We are not talking about game optimization (apart from a stability stand point) we are talking about general stability here.

If they can not get their driver to work properly on regular users / gamers setup that God forbid might have stuff like a webbrowser, Discord, Steam or otherlauncher with their own HW accelerated GUIs and their own overlays running in the background or at the same time then what are we really on about?

GCN and RDNA backwards compatible? GPUs mostly run standardized code that goes trough a shadercompiler usually at the driver level at some point so most APIs are hardware agnostic.
 
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this thread makes me not want to use nvidia ever again, especially after half the 416 drivers manage to shut my usb ports / software power off of and made me have to unplug my computer to reboot it if i left it on over night more then 1 day.
i have had less driver problems with the last 6 years of amd cards then the 2 years with this 1070ti.
 
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There were some IPS/ G-Sync issues related to black screen in games, coming and going (not crashing although you might think it crashed ), when you reset (enable/disable) the IPS / G-sync option and set the desired refresh rate it is sorted, there were also reports of power savings settings that could cause this and not just related to AMD and Nvidia drivers.
 
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Interesting... then 95% of NAVI owners that visit the hungarian hardware forum I tend to had some sort of problem, and all of them say that 19.12.1 was the best driver package for them. Weird eh?
You know. I've said about the users problems. They can say that the driver version xx.xx is better than yy.yy but they do not do any tests they just see if it is working or not. What caused the driver to crash is another story. I've mentioned that earlier. Do a test. OC your card so that you will know it will crash the game and look into the Windows event log. IT will say the app has crashed due to the driver. It is always blaming the driver despite it may not have been its fault. That's all I'm saying. 95% can say that but they do not say what is the problem, they don't test it nor give any information aside 9.12.1 is the best. You have to consider that AMD in the 9.12.2 and 9.12.3 added shit load of features which may impact stability. I've got the latest and have no problems although I got Vega64. My friends have the latest with 5000 series and they sometimes need to tweak the settings and it works.
I meant that the very same problems are present in a lot of systems, with a lots of hardware variation. Effectively pointing to the one common denominator AMD's driver package... or worse case that there are a lot of defective cards that seemingly work just fine in games but can not handle swapping tabs in Chrome...
Sure but also in a lot of systems the problems are not existent. That is a good point. The variation of the systems, settings, games people play and yet driver is to blame? My friends don't have the problem. They use the same driver so why on other systems the problems exists? Is it because of the driver? It works for others? Maybe the users have no idea what settings they have put in or how they have tweaked the card? I's all in the earlier posts don't want to repeat myself. You all say so many system so many variations, user settings may also be different but the driver is to blame.
The driver is fine. It works but there are many new features. Nvidia users suffer the same thing. It has been reported many times, Black screens, computer shutdowns all very similar symptoms.
We are not talking about game optimization (apart from a stability stand point) we are talking about general stability here.

If they can not get their driver to work properly on regular users / gamers setup that God forbid might have stuff like a webbrowser, Discord, Steam or otherlauncher with their own HW accelerated GUIs and their own overlays running in the background or at the same time then what are we really on about?
What is this stability issue for you. Some have it some don't and they use the same driver. It is like you want the driver to be bad and you give no insight to this. It is just bad because 95% of users said so. 90% of this 95% you mentioned doesn't know a lot about graphics and settings.
I mentioned CS:GO I played and encounter a problem. Read about it in this thread and tell me if the driver is to blame. No it isn't the drivers problem in most cases but the driver will always show up as a problem even there is so many other things casing the failure and as you mentioned so many systems and settings and different users.

GCN and RDNA backwards compatible? GPUs mostly run standardized code that goes trough a shadercompiler usually at the driver level at some point so most APIs are hardware agnostic.
The driver is backwards compatible and it has been said many times. Not sure where you are going with this case to me it is irrelevant to what we are talking about here.
The graphics driver is a device driver enabling all other resources to speak to it. It is like a communication channel between other computer resources. API's talk to the hardware via device driver in this case graphics driver. That is all.
 

bug

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Sorry to offend you. I’m merely working from my own experience, which I guess doesn’t carry much weight with you. Personally, I like the data point of the return reason. It’s just more facts to help inform my opinion.
I wasn't offended.
But personal experience does not apply here, we're not talking 50% return rates. We're probably looking at well under 5%, with many (including reviewers) running the cards with no issue. The problem is, when you sell 1mn cards, a problem with 1% of them will still bite 10,000 buyers. Whether the issue is real or perceived, it needs to be addressed.
 
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My friends have the latest with 5000 series and they sometimes need to tweak the settings and it works.
Users shouldn't tweak anything over the default settings to get anything to work properly.
If they have to tweak anything to get it to work, then they have issues with the current driver packages and are just doing workarounds.

Is it because of the driver? It works for others? Maybe the users have no idea what settings they have put in or how they have tweaked the card?
Again... users shouldn't tweak anything out of the box. Or trouble shoot their previously problem free systems, and search for workarounds on forums and reddits posts to get their freshly purchased graphics card to do its job problem free. All the while the very same hardware and software environment works without problems with an nVIDIA GPU.

The driver is backwards compatible and it has been said many times.
Polaris, Vega and Navi have their own separate drivers it's just packaged into a single package. Just as with nVIDIA having support for Maxwell, Pascal and Turing in the same package.
 
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Users shouldn't tweak anything over the default settings to get anything to work properly.
If they have to tweak anything to get it to work, then they have issues with the current driver packages and are just doing workarounds.
They choose to do it. Like use AMD latest feature for FPS lock or image sharpening on/off. If they want they can do it. So strongly disagree.
If you OC stuff you do it on your own. It may work or may not.

Again... users shouldn't tweak anything out of the box. Or trouble shoot their previously problem free systems, and search for workarounds on forums and reddits posts to get their freshly purchased graphics card to do its job problem free. All the while the very same hardware and software environment works without problems with an nVIDIA GPU.
You are missing the point totally. They OC the card or flash Bios and start complaining about the driver crashes. You dont tweak the driver dummy. You tweak the features. Like fan speed since you have closed case you want more fan speed. You can OC the card (hardware) not the driver.

Polaris, Vega and Navi have their own separate drivers it's just packaged into a single package. Just as with nVIDIA having support for Maxwell, Pascal and Turing in the same package.
You don't get it do you. It is like this. The 2600k Intel CPU is compatible with 9900K. They are both x86 arch. Right?
RDNA and GCN is like that. Same as NV graphics cards. The difference is tweaks, instructions etc. They are compatible and the driver is compatible with one another.


Here is something you should read.
The black screen issues called a driver issue by many (or even most people here) due to lots of returns of the 5000 series graphics. The numbers (some say are stunning) numbers for the returns with the Black Screen Issue symptom.

Here, black screen issue with 2060 Super
link https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/rtx-2060-black-screen-fan-speed-100.3480799/
some fix https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/898055-black-screen-gpu-fans-at-full-speed-crash-fixed/
Fix thermal paste and pads replacement. Other, decrees OC of the card. That is a real graphics driver problem right?

Another black screen 2080. Black screen at the start and another joins in with black screen in games.
Problem was solved with one by decreasing CPU OC. weird huh? CPU couldn't work it up with the 2080 when OC'ed to 4.9 (7700K) causing black screen.

Tried to find the links quick.

The fun part is non of these is related to a driver issue. There is thousands of black screen problems and non is related to a graphics driver but the issue does cause the graphics driver to crash but not always
Fun part also, you can have a black screen but the driver still works fine. There's just nothing in the screen.
The number claim of Mr. Vayra is actually correct. (BTW NV has that problems as well and it is not a driver issue) Black screens over and over but it does not mean it's because of the graphics driver. I can tell you now there is no driver issues. The one thing that we can say about this number is, there is a black screen issue reported by many people. They didn't perform any checks or tests. They just blame the driver. Or maybe they have changed something without knowing what it is yet for them DRIVER ISSUE. Is it a graphics driver problem? Not really since the driver works on a different computer perfectly but it is easier to blame it. It is damn obvious, if a driver works with one card perfectly but it doesn't on the other computer with same card model it is not the driver issue. The problem is somewhere else. For instance black screen with a RTX 2070 during a game randomly. Solution. re-seated the power connector on the graphics cause it was loosened. No problems after.

Anyway. I disagree with you guys sorry.
 
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choose to do it. Like use AMD latest feature for FPS lock or image sharpening on/off. If they want they can do it. So strongly disagree.
If you OC stuff you do it on your own. It may work or may not.
You seem to have missed his point...

Sure, if I want to turn features on and off etc, that is normal. What ISN'T normal is being forced to change anything outside of default for the card to function properly.

Regardless if it is hardware or software, there is some kind of issue with Navi cards for more users than is typical.

Also note, I can google anything and find problems with everything. The point here is amd has, over the past several months, had more issues than nvidia cards. You can disagree with that, however that would be wrong. ;)
 
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You seem to have missed his point...

Sure, if I want to turn features on and off etc, that is normal. What ISN'T normal is being forced to change anything outside of default for the card to function properly.

Regardless if it is hardware or software, there is some kind of issue with Navi cards for more users than is typical.

Also note, I can google anything and find problems with everything. The point here is amd has, over the past several months, had more issues than nvidia cards. You can disagree with that, however that would be wrong. ;)
I didn't miss anything. I know exactly what he is saying but steering away from the subject we are talking about here is not the way to go.
I see you are the stubborn one. This links are not to tell you there's a problem with NV cards or AMD cards but it shows that the issues with the black screen (which all the fuss is about here) are not caused by the graphics driver which all of the claims are going for since there is other issues that may cause it.
PS4 uses AMD hardware (GCN). There are black screens occasionally. The fix for this has never been due to a graphics driver, because it would have been stupid to even suggest such a thing.
PS5 will be also based on the AMD hardware and there will be black screens for sure but non would be due to a graphics driver. The problem is always elsewhere. What do you think. How different the PS4 or upcoming PS5 graphics driver would be with the PC? It is basically the same thing. The problem here is that PC give more tweaking not just to the graphics but to everything and that can be troublesome especially for inexperienced person reading something on forums about overclocking and Bios flashing etc.

I'm not disagreeing they have issues but saying it is because of the driver is simply stupid. Think about it that way 10% (not sure if this is the right value but I'm sure you can check) of the users have encountered black screens form either NV and AMD. Now think about the numbers of how many cards NV has sold and how many AMD and think which one is more severe in numbers.
The drivers are fine but the users tend to blow things out of proportion blaming driver for their actions because it is easy. We don't know what the issue was when they have upgraded their PC's or buy new and what they did to hardware counterparts.
Wonder, what is the number of this failed cards from AMD and which model is actually the worst in comparison. I bet it is the 5700 one. If You have info please share I'd like to read it.
 
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Well Hardware Unboxed just speculated in their latest Q&A that some of the people in their poll that were having issues due to timing and OC their CPU.

1) Make an open poll not verifying Vote to hardware
2) Speculate on a good portion of those unverified people that are having issues.
 
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Well Hardware Unboxed just said in their latest Q&A half of the people in their poll that were having issues were due to OC their CPU.


1) Make an open poll not verifying Vote to hardware
2) Speculate on a good portion of those unverified people that are having issues.
It can be also due to OC the graphics, or flashing it with a different Bios. That is why I have mentioned 5700 in my last post.
Not to mention other hardware failures or strange behavior of WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model). The list goes on.
BTW. One fix I have performed myself due to black screen, when changing my graphics was not only DDU and install new driver but also reinstalling DX12.

CPU OC is a severe issue when swapping cards. With one it works. You get faster card and the CPU OC is causing black screen. Pretty common.
 
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Well I find it entertaining since they could never replicate the issues people said they were having. They let a unverified twitter poll sway they're thinking. Due to the poll they changed their recommendation.

The video about the poll. Steve even points out his & Tims machines along with his kids never seen issue.
 
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This links are not to tell you there's a problem with NV cards or AMD cards but it shows that the issues with the black screen (which all the fuss is about here) are not caused by the graphics driver which all of the claims are going for since there is other issues that may cause it.
Those links do not confirm anything, really. People dont know black screens can happen for a slew of reasons?? The difference here is AMD acknowledged an issue (which means there is one).

Saying its because of the driver is a fact...again, amd acknowledged this and trying to fix it! Along with a slew of other CONFIRMED BY AMD issues.

I'm stubborn, lolol
 
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Well I find it entertaining since they could never replicate the issues people were having. They let a unverified twitter poll sway they're thinking. Due to the poll they changed their recommendation.

The video about the poll. Steve even points out his & Tims machines along with his kids never seen issue.
Of course. Haven't you noticed in what society we are living now and what media is doing? If you say something untrue or even stupid but you find people to follow this nonsense, others will start thinking, So many people say it is true so it must be true. Does something become true or is true because a lot of people start claiming it is especially without giving any arguments? Then you ask for evidence or argument and you will be called names and you shut up. Simple right?

Those links do not confirm anything, really. People dont know black screens can happen for a slew of reasons?? The difference here is AMD acknowledged an issue (which means there is one).

Saying its because of the driver is a fact...again, amd acknowledged this and trying to fix it!

I'm stubborn, lolol
Do you know when AMD acknowledge this and if you could share some source? I'd be glad to expand my knowledge.
Cause honestly I haven't seen any AMD article about it only tech pages claiming there is a driver issue.

Here is extremetech article fragment. AMD response to the black screen issue.
1582724649547.png

I don't see anything about AMD admitting driver issue here. Maybe you understand that differently.
 
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Look at the fix list (from navi release, but pretty sure I saw it after adrenaline 2020)...and I think black screen was one of them. ;)

That snip shows they heard about the black screens and looking into it....
 
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