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How prevalent are ATX12VO desktops?

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If Windows 11 pushes me to buy a new system, I'd like to make the move to ATX12VO; how available are they these days (if at all)?

Paradoxically I am presently using an old Core 2 machine that has a 12V only power supply
 
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OEM Only afaik.
 
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Ah, which manufacturer should I be looking at?

Dell, HP... ?
 
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absolutely no one.

you get the worst possible hardware, the worst possible coolers, cases, bloatware, proprietary crap and gimped down bioses. and all of that for the price of a similar rig with high end components.
 
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Just spend the extra 100 bucks on a 80+ titanium PSU (x
 
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Hi,
Last oem I bought was in 2009
Still works to date not sure what they're like now but it's a cheap micro atx core 2 quad acer believe ax3810 little bitty case I transplanted it into a d450 corsair mid tower case couple years after I bought it to get a real graphic's card on it and power supply...

Most recently had it mounted on a test bench hanging in my entertainment center on a ek evo water block lol
Just replaced it with my x99 board after it started working again but the old q9550... was working just fine better than my smart t.v. but 6 core/ 12 thread 5930k obviously is a lot better.
If I were looking for an oem I'd have to look at what acer had going.
MC-2 water cooled q9550-05.jpg
 

newtekie1

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Ah, which manufacturer should I be looking at?

Dell, HP... ?
I wouldn't worry about ATX12VO, I don't see it becoming popular any time soon. And on top of it, even the OEMs that are switching to it aren't sticking to the standard. Like Dell is using ATX12VO but with proprietary connectors and PSU shapes for example.

What I would do is buy a good quality brand name fully modular PSU. When the time comes that you get a ATX12VO motherboard, you should be able to get a ATX12VO cable set for the PSU.
 
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Much appreciated, I would hate to get stuck with a proprietary supply.

ATX12VO has 12V standby; that will take more than cables.
 
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newtekie1

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ATX12VO has 12V standby; that will take more than cables.
Yeah, but I suspect that could be handled with a very small DC to DC converter, probably even small enough to build right into one of the ends of the cable.

It really only comes down to if there is a big enough market for cable sets to convert an ATX12V unit to a ATX12VO and if ATX12VO actually even takes off in anything other than the OEM space(I suspect is won't).
 
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Yeah, but I suspect that could be handled with a very small DC to DC converter, probably even small enough to build right into one of the ends of the cable.

It really only comes down to if there is a big enough market for cable sets to convert an ATX12V unit to a ATX12VO and if ATX12VO actually even takes off in anything other than the OEM space(I suspect is won't).
There is no point to buy into it now as its barely standard at all let alone the DIY market but I hope it does take off, ATX is ancient garbage that needs to go.
 
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Guess I'll try to keep Windows 11 running on my old Core 2 machines.
 
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ATX is ancient garbage that needs to go.
Any particular rationale behind this beyond "it's old?"

The only voltage on ATX that isn't really used often is the -12V, and it makes sense to have all the common power conversion electronics in one place.
 
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Any particular rationale behind this beyond "it's old?"

The only voltage on ATX that isn't really used often is the -12V, and it makes sense to have all the common power conversion electronics in one place.
Yeah, its an inefficient, a waste of space, and unneeded complexity. When ATX we conceived voltage conversion was hard and that was inefficient so it made sense for the PSU to have several different rails. Now its easy and there are all kinds of other voltages being generated at the board outside of the ones that are part of the ATX spec anyway so the PSU should just be the power source and the rest of the system should create whatever voltages it needs. Its happening at the board level anyway so having it take place in two places is just stupid, take it out of the PSU so the PSU to be a simpler cleaner design that is more compact, efficient and reliable.
 
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Any particular rationale behind this beyond "it's old?"

The only voltage on ATX that isn't really used often is the -12V, and it makes sense to have all the common power conversion electronics in one place.

Err great. Who do you trust more to do a better job when it comes to doing the voltage conversion.. ..Motherboard or PSU company?

..Plus all those protection you get when it's inside a PSU, do you think you will get all those on a motherboard? No need to answer the question, my answer is no..

Let me see, more MOSFETS on the motherboard for end users to blow-up. ...Fantastic.
 
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Err great. Who do you trust more to do a better job when it comes to doing the voltage conversion.. ..Motherboard or PSU company?

..Plus all those protection you get when it's inside a PSU, do you think you will get all those on a motherboard? No need to answer the question, my answer is no..

Let me see, more MOSFETS on the motherboard for end users to blow-up. ...Fantastic.
Really? I've had high quality PSUs like Seasonic and Corsair die well before they should have. Never in 12+ years of building PCs have I see anything fail on VRM circuit, it just dosn't happen unless its being pushed beyond its spec or just complete garbage like Biostar. And like I said your graphics card and motherboard both are already doing voltage conversion and there is protections there as well. Having a 12v only PSU isn't some huge radical change its just consolidating component design where it belongs.
 
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12VO doesn't exist in consumer desktops at all and will not be mainstream for a few years. Some prebuilts use this kind of setup, but they don't follow any official specification, so I guess "proprietary garbage" is the correct term to use here.
Yeah, its an inefficient, a waste of space, and unneeded complexity. When ATX we conceived voltage conversion was hard and that was inefficient so it made sense for the PSU to have several different rails. Now its easy and there are all kinds of other voltages being generated at the board outside of the ones that are part of the ATX spec anyway so the PSU should just be the power source and the rest of the system should create whatever voltages it needs. Its happening at the board level anyway so having it take place in two places is just stupid, take it out of the PSU so the PSU to be a simpler cleaner design that is more compact, efficient and reliable.
ATX PSUs went a long way since the idea was conceived and you'd be hard pressed to compete with them with local regulation, if only for the space reasons. On anything smaller than a full ATX board there is simply no space to waste for even more complex voltage regulation - I, for one, will never buy a motherboard bigger than mini-ITX and much prefer a singular unit which does most of the work and can be easily replaced if needed - i.e. the PSU
Never in 12+ years of building PCs have I see anything fail on VRM circuit,
What did you work on then? Most of damaged devices I saw, be it laptops, motherboards, graphics cards or consoles, were damaged due to burned power delivery. Burnt VRMs on GPUs are close to being a meme among repair technicians at this point.
Do you trust the motherboard manufacturers to design high-quality, robust local regulation or just throw together whatever with the cheapest parts they can get?
Multi-stage regulation has many merits and single rail systems will become more mainstream, but don't get hyped - they have as many disadvantages as they have advantages.
 

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Never in 12+ years of building PCs have I see anything fail on VRM circuit, it just dosn't happen
HAHA, you've got to be joking.
 

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If Windows 11 pushes me to buy a new system, I'd like to make the move to ATX12VO; how available are they these days (if at all)?

Paradoxically I am presently using an old Core 2 machine that has a 12V only power supply
Hardly anything

Basically what it is, is that Intel is trying to change standards because they are getting their asses handed to them by Advanced Micro Devices
 

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Yeah, its an inefficient, a waste of space, and unneeded complexity. When ATX we conceived voltage conversion was hard and that was inefficient so it made sense for the PSU to have several different rails. Now its easy and there are all kinds of other voltages being generated at the board outside of the ones that are part of the ATX spec anyway so the PSU should just be the power source and the rest of the system should create whatever voltages it needs. Its happening at the board level anyway so having it take place in two places is just stupid, take it out of the PSU so the PSU to be a simpler cleaner design that is more compact, efficient and reliable.
Seasonic already kind of does this with their better PSUs. Everything is 12v, then an add-on board inside the PSU just steps it down to 5v and 3.3v. ATX might be an old spec, but the technology driving it can actually be quite modern and the non-negative voltages are used often enough to keep them around, but there are reasons for it. For example, negative voltages are a lot easier to obtain from an AC source as opposed to a DC source. There are a number of trade-offs to going with a more simple PSU compared to a more complicated one. I'd only use something like a plain +12v supply for a very small and compact PC, otherwise it makes no sense.
 
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Yeah, its an inefficient,
No, it really isn't. We have PSUs that do over 90% conversion efficiency which I challenge any motherboard maker to do.

As for needlessly complex, no, just no. Not for any non-simple SOC-based PC. Every voltage provided is used and even now some other ones made by the board. It's not needlessly complex.
 

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Everything is 12v, then an add-on board inside the PSU just steps it down to 5v and 3.3v.
And I'd rather have that step-down happening in the PSU which has a nice fan creating plenty of airflow over the components. DC to DC conversion on the motherboard in a VRM can sit in stagnant air and get stupid hot.
 

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And I'd rather have that step-down happening in the PSU which has a nice fan creating plenty of airflow over the components. DC to DC conversion on the motherboard in a VRM can sit in stagnant air and get stupid hot.

That is true, I'd rather the psu cost more than a motherboard, at least it is self contained and doesn't expose the user to dangerous voltages. Plus if say a failure in psu occurs due to lightning or surge and the psu catches fire it prevents other parts from being damaged when caught on time.

HAHA, you've got to be joking.

ok he had a couple of bad units, but compared to all of the TT, raidmax, coolmax units go dead suddenly there is no comparison. SS/SF units are like 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% failures, where the others above are like 85%
 
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The ATX12VO power connectors were going to be a big deal on 600-series motherboards including the flagship Z690 chipset-based products.
Intel was actively trying to standardize the new and more power-efficient power connector configuration on its motherboards starting next generation but it doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

 
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Much appreciated; this is immensely useful information
 
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What did you work on then? Most of damaged devices I saw, be it laptops, motherboards, graphics cards or consoles, were damaged due to burned power delivery. Burnt VRMs on GPUs are close to being a meme among repair technicians at this point.
Do you trust the motherboard manufacturers to design high-quality, robust local regulation or just throw together whatever with the cheapest parts they can get?
Multi-stage regulation has many merits and single rail systems will become more mainstream, but don't get hyped - they have as many disadvantages as they have advantages.
Just the systems I've built. I've never seen a motherboard VRM fail outside of some of the first ones in the 00s that had bad electrolytic caps and even with the bad caps the systems kept working in both cases. I can't recall a graphics card I've owned or put into service ever failing due to the VRM, EVGA had that thing awhile back but that was bad design. Even when I helped out and fixed a friends HP or Dell it was almost always the PSU or HD that failed.
Hardly anything

Basically what it is, is that Intel is trying to change standards because they are getting their asses handed to them by Advanced Micro Devices
Lol, no AMD dosn't give a shit what form factor the PSU uses, it dosn't affect them at all.
Seasonic already kind of does this with their better PSUs. Everything is 12v, then an add-on board inside the PSU just steps it down to 5v and 3.3v. ATX might be an old spec, but the technology driving it can actually be quite modern and the non-negative voltages are used often enough to keep them around, but there are reasons for it. For example, negative voltages are a lot easier to obtain from an AC source as opposed to a DC source. There are a number of trade-offs to going with a more simple PSU compared to a more complicated one. I'd only use something like a plain +12v supply for a very small and compact PC, otherwise it makes no sense.
Most modern high-end designs are going to do this and the mere fact that they are is basically saying a sole 12v rail in the PSU is the right way to go. Modern ATX PSU use modern technology but from a design perspective they are obsolete.
No, it really isn't. We have PSUs that do over 90% conversion efficiency which I challenge any motherboard maker to do.

As for needlessly complex, no, just no. Not for any non-simple SOC-based PC. Every voltage provided is used and even now some other ones made by the board. It's not needlessly complex.
Yeah, it is.

Sure we have 90+ % efficient ATX PSUs but 95% of that efficiency is derived from the 12v rail. In terms of actually delivering any meaning amounts of power the 5v 7.5v and 3.3v rails are a joke and is meaningless in terms of the efficiency of the PSU and system. Their (5v. 3.3v rails) existence is un-needed complexity, nothing runs directly off of 3.3 or 5v volts and its not hard to step down 12v to whatever you need like it was in 90s and early 00s when the ATX spec made sense.

To the extent that boards are even using those minor rails boards are already converting 5v and 3.3v to smaller voltages already so just start with 12v and be done with it. Besides whats really using them? CPU and GPU are 12v, even RAM is 12 now isn't it? That leaves random controllers and sensors?
And I'd rather have that step-down happening in the PSU which has a nice fan creating plenty of airflow over the components. DC to DC conversion on the motherboard in a VRM can sit in stagnant air and get stupid hot.
Its already getting stepped down, nothing runs directly off of 5 or 3.3v, the motherboard is already doing it, why do it twice? Also it dosn't need any air flow, these voltages don't supply any meaningful power, nothing is getting hot aside from 12v.
 
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