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How prevalent are ATX12VO desktops?

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nothing runs directly off of 3.3 or 5v volts
HDDs and nvme ssds do. Like, all of them.

Also 7.5volts... wtf? That isn't even in the spec.

CPU and GPU are 12v, even RAM is 12 now isn't it?
no, no and nope. They are all around 1v and do their own conversion from 12v on the board. And those vrms already get toasty at times.
 
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HDDs and nvme ssds do. Like, all of them.

Also 7.5volts... wtf? That isn't even in the spec.


no, no and nope. They are all around 1v and do their own conversion from 12v on the board. And those vrms already get toasty at times.
For some reason I thought the orange conductor on SATA cables was 7.5v, don't ask me why... Either way its never used as 4 pin molex to SATA adapters work 100% of the time afaik. And yeah they "use" the 5v rail but I highly doubt anything inside a SSD runs on 5v (NAND and controllers certainly don't) and like I said the 3.3 pin is never used as evident that molex adapters work. So its all getting stepped down again anyway and there is no penalty from starting with 12v with modern voltage conversion ICs.

Yeah my dude I know GPUs don't run on 12v, when I say 12v 5v or 3.3v I'm talking about the rail being utilized not what voltage that component runs on. Nothing runs on native 12v aside from fans and maybe HD motors. My point was that everything of significant value uses the 12v rail; the smaller rails are superficial in modern hardware. If you look at old 10+ year PSUs you'll see a sizable portion of its total power in 5v, the ATX spec with different rails made sense then. Modern PSUs have nearly all their power in the 12v rail, 5v and 3.3v coming from the PSU is only there to support the spec, its pretty much legacy at this point.
 
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For some reason I thought the orange conductor on SATA cables was 7.5v, don't ask me why... Either way its never used as 4 pin molex to SATA adapters work 100% of the time afaik. And yeah they "use" the 5v rail but I highly doubt anything inside a SSD runs on 5v (NAND and controllers certainly don't) and like I said the 3.3 pin is never used as evident that molex adapters work. So its all getting stepped down again anyway and there is no penalty from starting with 12v with modern voltage conversion ICs.

Yeah my dude I know GPUs don't run on 12v, when I say 12v 5v or 3.3v I'm talking about the rail being utilized not what voltage that component runs on. Nothing runs on native 12v aside from fans and maybe HD motors. My point was that everything of significant value uses the 12v rail; the smaller rails are superficial in modern hardware. If you look at old 10+ year PSUs you'll see a sizable portion of its total power in 5v, the ATX spec with different rails made sense then. Modern PSUs have nearly all their power in the 12v rail, 5v and 3.3v coming from the PSU is only there to support the spec, its pretty much legacy at this point.
All nvme ssds run on 3.3v. Most SATA connector devices use 5V.

Bottom line I suppose is if it's really logical it will take off. But I really don't see it.
 
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All nvme ssds run on 3.3v. Most SATA connector devices use 5V.

Bottom line I suppose is if it's really logical it will take off. But I really don't see it.
Yeah, 3.3v is on the pinout, I'm guessing thats for the flash as I found some old micron datasheets (2006) that say the flash actually runs at 2.6-3.6 volts. I coudln't find anything new though so who knows if that represents modern flash. More to the point its such small amount of power that it dosn't really change anything and there is already a 1.8v pinout on NVME so voltage conversion is already happening on the board somewhere for that. Just let the board do it for negligible increase in component count there for a vastly more streamlined and simplified PSU design.
 
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I mean if the 3.3/5v lines are needed, why not in the PSU? If they aren't used they don't exactly use any power or anything. I trust a PSU maker way more than a mobo manufacturer.
 
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I mean if the 3.3/5v lines are needed, why not in the PSU? If they aren't used they don't exactly use any power or anything. I trust a PSU maker way more than a mobo manufacturer.
Because they aren't needed?, or at the very least is just an arbitrary number at this point. From what I could find old flash dies used ~3 volts but thats 10 year old information so idk if its relevant to anything anymore. So if 3.3v isn't ideal for NAND why keep that voltage standard around forever? If someone comes up with something better than NVME and they find that 2.2v is better you can just as easily generate 2.2v as you can 3.3 at the board level and you don't need to rely on PSU standards to catch up. SATA drives use 5v but that can't be ideal for anything really so 5v is pretty much completely legacy aside from USB ports.

You say you trust the PSU more than the motheboard board; I mean, whatever but I disagree, I've seen way more PSUs fail the motherboards. And you are already "trusting" the motheboard manufacture with all the other minor voltages that are not 3.3 or 5 volts and those never fail. By putting the minor rails on the board and taking them off the PSU you don't get less reliable motherboard you just get more reliable, compact, and efficient PSU.
 
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We are talking in circles. I just talked you through existing devices that use those voltages.
They are used because we still use the ATX spec. My whole point is that we don't need to use them anymore because its easy to convert whatever voltage you need from 12v, this not my opinion it is fact.

Yes, they do. A lot more than you think.
"A lot" whatever that means.... anything can and eventually will fail. I can safely say that PSUs and high output CPU and GPU VRMs fail vastly more often to the point its not even worth comparing them to failure rates of minor rails.
 

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Its already getting stepped down, nothing runs directly off of 5 or 3.3v, the motherboard is already doing it, why do it twice? Also it dosn't need any air flow, these voltages don't supply any meaningful power, nothing is getting hot aside from 12v.
Really, so you'll run your CPU VRM with no heatsink and no airflow? Yeah, I didn't think so.
 
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Really, so you'll run your CPU VRM with no heatsink and no airflow? Yeah, I didn't think so.
CPU VRM is not minor and runs directly off of 12v, I specifically said it gets hot, its everything else that dosn't. Minor rails that power things like controllers and sensors that are potentially using 3.3 or 5 volt rails dont' draw enough power to need cooling on their VRM.
 
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Your not going to convince many people its time to change standards simply because you have had a couple of bad experiences and now your jaded.
We all know what your saying. Yes, the 12v rail is the main power source today. Yes, the 3.3v and 5v rails dont get used as much but...they still get used or they would have been eliminated by now.

Personally ive had exactly one psu fail. That was due to it being damaged during shipping after i sold it(it was replaced by the manny in 10 days). Ive never had to replace one in any of my own or my clients builds.
Mbs on the other hand, ive had at least ten fail, from every manufacturer, from every tier, for every reason under the sun(i spend weeks researching every component i use in a build btw). So no, i definitely wont trust mb manufacturers to do anymore than the very least they can get away with.

We havent even touched on the pathetic customer service you will receive from mb manufacturers vs quality psu manufacturers. I guarantee you will wait at LEAST 4 weeks for your beloved mb to come back from rma testing from any of the big 4. Quality psu manufacturers customer support is the complete opposite, they offer cross shipping if the normal 2 week turn around isn't fast enough. Thats reason enough in and of itself to make a change in standards a complete joke.

Dig in to the mb cs issue, youll love what you see.-sarcasm-
 
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Your not going to convince many people its time to change standards simply because you have had a couple of bad experiences and now your jaded.
We all know what your saying. Yes, the 12v rail is the main power source today. Yes, the 3.3v and 5v rails dont get used as much but...they still get used or they would have been eliminated by now.

Personally ive had exactly one psu fail. That was due to it being damaged during shipping after i sold it(it was replaced by the manny in 10 days). Ive never had to replace one in any of my own or my clients builds.
Mbs on the other hand, ive had at least ten fail, from every manufacturer, from every tier, for every reason under the sun(i spend weeks researching every component i use in a build btw). So no, i definitely wont trust mb manufacturers to do anymore than the very least they can get away with.

We havent even touched on the pathetic customer service you will receive from mb manufacturers vs quality psu manufacturers. I guarantee you will wait at LEAST 4 weeks for your beloved mb to come back from rma testing from any of the big 4. Quality psu manufacturers customer support is the complete opposite, they offer cross shipping if the normal 2 week turn around isn't fast enough. Thats reason enough in and of itself to make a change in standards a complete joke.

Dig in to the mb cs issue, youll love what you see.-sarcasm-
Hi,
Yep asus has been said to be the very worst to deal with but I'm sure some of the smaller ones aren't much different.
 
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Your not going to convince many people its time to change standards simply because you have had a couple of bad experiences and now your jaded.
We all know what your saying. Yes, the 12v rail is the main power source today. Yes, the 3.3v and 5v rails dont get used as much but...they still get used or they would have been eliminated by now.

Personally ive had exactly one psu fail. That was due to it being damaged during shipping after i sold it(it was replaced by the manny in 10 days). Ive never had to replace one in any of my own or my clients builds.
Mbs on the other hand, ive had at least ten fail, from every manufacturer, from every tier, for every reason under the sun(i spend weeks researching every component i use in a build btw). So no, i definitely wont trust mb manufacturers to do anymore than the very least they can get away with.

We havent even touched on the pathetic customer service you will receive from mb manufacturers vs quality psu manufacturers. I guarantee you will wait at LEAST 4 weeks for your beloved mb to come back from rma testing from any of the big 4. Quality psu manufacturers customer support is the complete opposite, they offer cross shipping if the normal 2 week turn around isn't fast enough. Thats reason enough in and of itself to make a change in standards a complete joke.

Dig in to the mb cs issue, youll love what you see.-sarcasm-
I'm not jaded at all and aside from one Corsair CX that failed within a few months every that has gone out on has lasted what I would consider a normal amount of time but it still seems to be most likely thing to fail. My one and only point is ATX is super old and was designed with different needs in mind and different constraints. Yeah, it works but if were given the opportunity to do a clean slate design you could do it better with just a single source voltage.

Thats just it, we're stuck using it because its the "standard" and will be until the industry decides to move on from it, you can't just pull out 3.3 and 5 volt rails when people designing hardware expect them to be there you have to transition off them. And like I said earlier nothing really runs natively off those voltages, onboard controllers and drives are stepping those voltages down further anyway so its all just legacy design stuff. The board is either stepping down 3.3 and 5 volts or stepping down 12v, you are changing stnadards which is hard but in the end it dosn't make things any more complicated or prone to fail at the board level, the PSU just gets simplified. Enterprise hardware made this change a long time ago, all the PSUs are 12v only and whatever system voltages are needed are coming from the board and they conform to the same NVME and PCIE standards as desktops.

My experience with board vs. PSU failure has been the exact opposite, in fact I don't think I've ever had a board just die and that was one of my own that was taken out by lighting so I don't think that counts. Either way, failure isn't my issue with ATX as illustrated above.
 
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