how to ground my PC and iMac in an old house?

[constantgamer247]

How's the snow
Send my electrician bud a text ...he says the GFI plug will work ,the board in it kills the power when a short is found..grounded or not. He also said that you could connect the ground from the GFI to a cold water pipe with a piece of 12 or 16 gauge copper wire as an added precaution.
Should work until you can see about a Grounded line from the box , but that could mean $$$$

Yep, that's pretty much what I've herd from everywhere. I just pulled the stove out though and there is a massive 4 pronged plug in a socket. 3 straight lines and a circular one below (I'm guessing grounding prong). On the stove above the hot plates there is a 3 pronged outlet and when I test hot to ground my multi meter reads 120 indicating that it's grounded. I'm hoping it is properly grounded. Do you know if grounding wires can be daisy chained? Like could my socket on the other side of the wall be connected to the stoves ground?

 

[Frogger]

"grounding wires can be daisy chained? Like could my socket on the other side of the wall be connected to the stoves ground?"
The Ground Is house wide you can connect to it from any ground point So yeh!
"there is a massive 4 pronged plug in a socket"
If that socket is attached to a box you should be able to open it up and attach the ground wire to the back of it @ the screw Beware that box is HOT you should shut down the power to it at the main feed because it's 220V you will have to power down the whole house

 

[Aquinus]

EDIT- Just don't use a surge protector with the GFCI outlet- it will cancel out any protection from the ungrounded GFCI

Why is that? Wouldn't the GFI outlet still trip if hot and neutral became unbalanced? Any substantial leakage would theoretically cause the GFI to trip. The surge protector is to protect from just that, surges, which GFIs don't handle. So I find this statement unusual since surge protectors and GFIs do two very different things. I could be wrong but I don't see how a surge protector would prevent a GFI from tripping in the event of a problem. The lack of a ground is a bigger issue from a surge protector IMHO which is a result of the wiring, not the GFI.

 

[constantgamer247]

I know. Aquinus' logic makes most sense, but I'm no electrician so there may be something I don't understand about a surge protector doing no good on a GFCI. I think the problem is a surge protector on an ungrounded GFCI. The surge protector really needs to be grounded to work properly.

 

[Sasqui]

Oh the irony. I've got fairly updated panels and the Neutral and Ground are both connected to the panel box. That said, all my three prong outlets test ok with one of these:

 

[Steevo]

how can you effectively protect anything without a ground? where is excess electricity going to be diverted to?

It works as the earth (ground) is used to transfer electrons back to the power station, thus for three phase we have three wires, each carrying a leg of the electrical load, and your electricity is grounded usually at the last pole to your house after the transformer. This isn't done everywhere, and cannot be done in some places due to the electrical capacitance of the earth in those locations, thus you may have four wires.....

In the states the ground wires are all tied to a bar that has the common carrier ground on one end, and on the other the homes grounding connection, and the homes ground is only used if/when the grounding rod at the utility's is higher resistance than our own. This can create a issue as well if other neighbors don't have good grounds it will back feed into your grounding rod. I had to install two rods and still used my pipes in Colorado to lower my grounding difference.

http://fyi.uwex.edu/mrec/files/2011/04/W4.-Biesterveld-NEC-grounding-MREC2010.pdf

 

[constantgamer247]

I meant; without a ground, where is surge protector going to disperse excess electricity to, in the event of an overload?

Without a ground, will a surge protector work at all?

 

[Steevo]

I don't think you understand how a real surge protector works, it has a parasitic junction with high enough resistance to allow almost no leakage across at operating voltage, when a power spike comes along it uses the junction as the resistance is lower than (hopefully) the load you are placing on it and the excess current follows the path through easiest resistance without causing any damage. Your power supply acts as the second layer of security for your hardware. Short of having an active power supply that reconditions your power...........

 

[constantgamer247]

Okay, then why does everyone say that a surge protector needs to be grounded to work?

 

[Steevo]

Because some do to avoid the ground potential differential, as in, when one ground is overloaded it uses the other to make sure the current carrying capacity is good, this is also the reason why almost all "surge protectors" claim a $250,000 or better guarantee, all they have to do is say you had inadequate grounding and thus aren't covered, and if you have a lighting strike lets say, and you have enough grounding and it cooks the surge protector, all they have to say is the joules rating was higher than the surge protector you purchased and you aren't covered.

 

[Aquinus]

I just pulled the stove out though and there is a massive 4 pronged plug in a socket. 3 straight lines and a circular one below (I'm guessing grounding prong).

Are all the straight ones facing the same direction or is one parallel to the other two?

If they're all straight that NEMA 14-50 and the other is NEMA 14-60.

Either way, the outlet you described is NEMA 14 which is described on wikipedia as:

All NEMA 14 devices offer two hots, a neutral and a ground, allowing for both 120 V and 240 V (or 120 V and 208 V if the supply system is three-phase rather than split phase).

So in this case @Steevo , neutral is return to the power station (according to electron drift,) not the ground.

 

[Steevo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return

 

[Aquinus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return

That depends on where you live, many areas don't use a single-wire earth return. That's more common if you're out in the middle of nowhere.

 

[constantgamer247]

I heard recently that you can't ground an outlet/power receptacle from another outlet/power receptacle >_< something about the ground wire having to run next to the hot and neutral. Seems to be for the same reason why you can't run the ground outside and around the house to the box. Does anyone know about the electrical code is on this?

Also I think it was a NEMA 14-50

 

[Arctucas]

Oh the irony. I've got fairly updated panels and the Neutral and Ground are both connected to the panel box. That said, all my three prong outlets test ok with one of these:

View attachment 56456

As it should be.

In case anyone is interested:
http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/GB-HTML/HTML/NECArticle250Sections250.20-250.34~20020124.htm

 

[Arctucas]

OP,

You, or rather, your landlord needs to contract a qualified electrician, period.

 

[constantgamer247]

An electrician is coming tomorrow morning. I'm hoping here is a good solution and that I don't have to look into using my computer in an ungrounded GFCI.

Someone mentioned to me that I could get a surge protected circuit breaker put in, and then have an ungrounded GFCI put in. Then if I use a power bar surge protector or UPS the GFCI will protect me, and the surge protector at the breaker will protect my equipment.

 

[Arctucas]

I am wondering; do you anticipate an issue with the power supplied to your residence?

 

[constantgamer247]

The electrician came yesterday. Pretty much don't have an option under $400 to install a grounded 3 pronged outlet. He put in an ungrounded GFCI. I'm going to try get the landlord to put in a surge protector at the breaker box. He said it would be really rare to get a power surge here. But as far as ESD damage ect... my parts should be safe if they're plugged into a UPS?

 

[Aquinus]

If you have forced hot water for heat you could use the baseboard if it's copper or cast iron pipe. You may not need to run a full run of ground wire as you could use the piping in your heating system as a ground (if it's grounded). That's what I'm most likely going to be doing for the circuit that my TV/Modem/Gateway is on. The circuit in my office with my tower is already grounded; brand new run.

 

[Arctucas]

The electrician came yesterday. Pretty much don't have an option under $400 to install a grounded 3 pronged outlet.

Sounds a little high, unless it is on the other side of house three floors up...

He put in an ungrounded GFCI.

That might protect you from being electrocuted...

I'm going to try get the landlord to put in a surge protector at the breaker box.

Probably could not make it any worse...

He said it would be really rare to get a power surge here.

Famous last words...

But as far as ESD damage ect... my parts should be safe if they're plugged into a UPS?

ESD is generally caused by you having a different electrical potential than that of the equipment (static electricity). If the equipment chassis is at earth potential (grounded), and you touch the chassis, or any other earthed metallic object, before you touch any of the internal components, there is less likelihood of ESD damage.