How to Protect the system against electrical fluctuations?

[mclaren85]

Hello everyone, I've just built my desktop system. But since I've invested a lot of money on it, I want to protect the circuits, and prolong the lifespan of my computer. Therefore I've bought a APC Schneider Essential Surge Arrest, but should I also have a UPS and/or Voltage regulator? Sometimes there are small fluctuations in my area which causes blinks in my monitor.
Thanks in advance!

 

[r9]

UPS is the way to go.

 

[Chaba422]

are you sure ur chair isnt building up static electricity whic makes monitor to blink black screen for split second?, this started happening to me after i got new chair, chair is Skiller SGS2, with my old chair whic was different material this never happened, now it can happen 10 times a day

 

[mclaren85]

are you sure ur chair isnt building up static electricity whic makes monitor to blink black screen for split second?, this started happening to me after i got new chair, chair is Skiller SGS2, with my old chair whic was different material this never happened, now it can happen 10 times a day

I think no, because I've already tried different pc's at different rooms without luck. My low quality oem DVI Cable maybe the reason but it is very obvious that fluctiations did occur time to time.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I agree, a "good" UPS with AVR is the only way to go. In fact, I recommend all computers be on a "good" UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation).

I emphasize "good" because like power supplies, there are cheap, budget UPS and there are good ones.

APC is my preferred brand but I have also had good service from CyberPower, Eaton and Tripp Lite. The larger UPS tend to have the better specs and features. I recommend at least 1000VA (1300 and even 1500VA would be better). Most of the larger have a nice LCD status display panel and will easily support your computer, one or two monitors, and all your network gear too. Including your network gear is nice because if you have a full power outage and quickly shut down your computer and monitors, your network can stay alive for much longer periods of time (hours with a large UPS) and then support Internet access for your smart phone or laptop.

The biggest problem with UPS is the spacing of the outlets is cramped and many monitors and network devices use power "warts" that often cover two outlets. So I recommend the use of 18 inch spider extension cords.

And never plug a UPS into a surge and spike protector or plug a surge and spike protector into a UPS. It can result in unstable operation of the UPS.

 

[xrobwx71]

18 inch spider extension cords.

I absolutely love these things.

I also use these:

 

[mclaren85]

And never plug a UPS into a surge and spike protector or plug a surge and spike protector into a UPS

Thanks for warning. I was going to add the surge protector in order to have more protection.

@Bill_Bright Do you that will work for me? My PSU is Seasonic 80+ 650watt

APC BVX1200LI-GR APC Back-UPS 1200VA, 230V, AVR,Schuko Sockets : Amazon.com.tr: Bilgisayar

APC BVX1200LI-GR APC Back-UPS 1200VA, 230V, AVR,Schuko Sockets : Amazon.com.tr: Bilgisayar

www.amazon.com.tr

 

[Bill_Bright]

I also use these:

Thanks for that! I like how they are only 8". Added to my shopping cart!

Thanks for warning. I was going to add the surge protector in order to have more protection.

Yeah, it doesn't work that way so don't do it. Surge protectors work by chopping off ("clamping") the tops of the waveforms of the excessive voltage of the surge or spike. If the UPS is plugged into the surge protector, the UPS may see that clamped waveform as "dirty" and cut-over to battery backup often and unnecessarily. At best, this will wear out the batteries sooner than normal. If you plug a surge protector into the UPS, the UPS may see the load as unstable and simply shut down thinking it is protecting itself or the connected equipment. If the UPS power cord does not reach the outlet, use a standard, heavy-duty extension cord, not a surge and spike protector.

@Bill_Bright Do you that will work for me? My PSU is Seasonic 80+ 650watt

I am sure that is big enough but I like the ones with a display panel even though they cost more. It is very handy to be able to use the display panel to monitor your line voltage, for example, without having to boot up the computer and look in the monitoring software program.

There is one big downside to all UPS. Their batteries need to be regularly replaced - typically every 3 - 5 years. This is an easy task with most stand-alone UPS. Many rack-mounted UPS use batteries that are not user replaceable.

And note I never ever buy replacement batteries from the UPS maker. They cost too much and you can get the exact same cells on line from battery sites, or even Amazon.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hello everyone, I've just built my desktop system. But since I've invested a lot of money on it, I want to protect the circuits, and prolong the lifespan of my computer. Therefore I've bought a APC Schneider Essential Surge Arrest, but should I also have a UPS and/or Voltage regulator? Sometimes there are small fluctuations in my area which causes blinks in my monitor.
Thanks in advance!

Hi,
Check the grounding system too
Most older buildings are very poorly installed if any exist at all.

 

[mclaren85]

Yeah, it doesn't work that way so don't do it. Surge protectors work by chopping off ("clamping") the tops of the waveforms of the excessive voltage of the surge or spike. If the UPS is plugged into the surge protector, the UPS may see that clamped waveform as "dirty" and cut-over to battery backup often and unnecessarily. At best, this will wear out the batteries sooner than normal. If you plug a surge protector into the UPS, the UPS may see the load as unstable and simply shut down thinking it is protecting itself or the connected equipment. If the UPS power cord does not reach the outlet, use a standard, heavy-duty extension cord, not a surge and spike protector

Perfect explanation, thank you!

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Surge protectors and back up battery systems both rely on dependable grounding systems otherwise they are useless.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Surge protectors and back up battery systems both rely on dependable grounding systems otherwise they are useless.

Useless? Ummm, no. Sorry but not true.

Surge and spike protectors can easily absorb many surges and spikes without being grounded. They simply convert the excess voltage into heat. But for "extreme" surges and spikes, they would normally shunt the excess to ground. So in those events a dependable ground is certainly a must.

And of course, for an UPS, it is not true because for many anomalies, the regulator circuits adjust as needed. And if an excessive anomaly is detected (or a full outage), they cut-over to the batteries. So likewise, it can do its job without being grounded. They are more effective with "extreme" anomalies with a dependable ground - but they certainly are not "useless" without one.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Well I hope you live that way and cut those ground prongs off your back up batteries...

 

[Bill_Bright]

No need to be puerile or silly. Nobody - except you - is suggesting cutting off ground prongs.

I note many older homes still only have 2-wire outlets. They can still gain a lot of protection from surges and spikes without being grounded directly to Earth ground.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

While I can't argue against Ups use and would advise it in some cases.
For the majority of users and use cases they're overkill.
The only advantage they provide to my mind is in a loss of power case(not yet common in the UK).
A good quality power supply can afford most of the protection of a Ups.
I've never used anything more than a properly decent PsU and a surge protector power adapter.
A crash ,bsd or power out wouldn't bother me but afaik hasn't happened due to power delivery yet.

 

[evernessince]

Hello everyone, I've just built my desktop system. But since I've invested a lot of money on it, I want to protect the circuits, and prolong the lifespan of my computer. Therefore I've bought a APC Schneider Essential Surge Arrest, but should I also have a UPS and/or Voltage regulator? Sometimes there are small fluctuations in my area which causes blinks in my monitor.
Thanks in advance!

The surge protector you've purchases is a run of the mill unit that uses sacrificial MOVs to protect against power surges and spikes. Not only do they wear out but they don't activate quick enough to protect against the initial inrush from a surge.

You want something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Furman-Power...ords=furman+power+strip&qid=1610570873&sr=8-5

This unit uses instantly activating SMPs in series. They don't degrade during a surge either but it is pricey. The reviews around the web of this unit speak for themselves.

It also includes conditioning so any variances in power will be smoothed out. I used to have an APC power conditioning strip and I would get a very slightly static in the background of my headphones. It was gone with the furman.

You can pair this strip with an APC but that's only needed if you have power outages. Anything else can be handled by the strip linked above.

 

[mclaren85]

@Bill_Bright Thank you for your great ideas. but since in Turkey buying an UPS with automatic voltage regulation is quiet expensive, is it OK if I only buy an automatic voltage regulation unit only? Do you think it can also protect against fluctations?
Ps: My home is new and so grounding, and also loss of power is not common in Turkey.

 

[evernessince]

@Bill_Bright Thank you for your great ideas. but since in Turkey buying an UPS with automatic voltage regulation is quiet expensive, is it OK if I only buy a automatic voltage regulation unit only? Do you think it can also protect against fluctations?
Ps: My home is new and so grounding, and also loss of power is not common in Turkey.

Ah, you have to make sure any product you purchase is designed for your market. According to google turkey has a standard voltage of 230V. Please ensure that any strip, UPS, or voltage regulator is designed with that in mind.

 

[mclaren85]

turkey has a standard voltage of 230V

Yes, Turkey's standard voltage is 220V. And it is really hard to find a device with a different standard.

 

[Bill_Bright]

For the majority of users and use cases they're overkill.
The only advantage they provide to my mind is in a loss of power case(not yet common in the UK).

Then I am sorry, but you don't understand their greatest advantage. Backup power during a power outage is just a minor, bonus feature. Their biggest advantage, by far, is the AVR - automatic voltage regulation. This is the intelligent circuitry that instantly reduces the voltage when it goes a little (or a lot) high, and it boosts the voltage when it dips or sags a little (or a lot). No surge and spike protector can do that. They provide absolutely no protection from low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags). And for excessive surges and spikes, they simply shut off power (if working properly), crashing your computer - never good.

@Bill_Bright Thank you for your great ideas. but since in Turkey buying an UPS with automatic voltage regulation is quiet expensive, is it OK if I only buy a automatic voltage regulation unit only? Do you think it can also protect against fluctations?
Ps: My home is new and so grounding, and also loss of power is not common in Turkey.

I'm confused now. The UPS you linked to above in your post #7 is an UPS with AVR.

A proper regulator can indeed protect against minor fluctuations. But if an excessive high anomaly, they simply shut down causing connected computers to crash - risking the possibility of corrupt data. And if you have an excessive low voltage anomaly, they will then also just shut down. At what point those thresholds appear depends on the regulator.

A voltage regulator is much better than a surge and spike protector. But a good UPS with AVR is even better.

 

[ThrashZone]

@Bill_Bright Thank you for your great ideas. but since in Turkey buying an UPS with automatic voltage regulation is quiet expensive, is it OK if I only buy an automatic voltage regulation unit only? Do you think it can also protect against fluctations?
Ps: My home is new and so grounding, and also loss of power is not common in Turkey.

Hi,
If that is the case you should be fine with good surge protector
Battery helps people save work and shut down normally instead of sudden power outage common in the USA.
Just search California power outages lol

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Then I am sorry, but you don't understand their greatest advantage. Backup power during a power outage is just a minor, bonus feature. Their biggest advantage, by far, is the AVR - automatic voltage regulation. This is the intelligent circuitry that instantly reduces the voltage when it goes a little (or a lot) high, and it boosts the voltage when it dips or sags a little (or a lot). No surge and spike protector can do that. They provide absolutely no protection from low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags). And for excessive surges and spikes, they simply shut off power (if working properly), crashing your computer - never good.


I'm confused now. The UPS you linked to above in your post #7 is an UPS with AVR.

A proper regulator can indeed protect against minor fluctuations. But if an excessive high anomaly, they simply shut down causing connected computers to crash - risking the possibility of corrupt data. And if you have an excessive low voltage anomaly, they will then also just shut down. At what point those thresholds appear depends on the regulator.

A voltage regulator is much better than a surge and spike protector. But a good UPS with AVR is even better.

We'll living in the UK I'm blessed.

A PSU of decent quality will be fine with the same regulation , we don't get that anomalous a supply where I live, and you skipped the bit about for most user's.

I'm not spending 1k to protect 3k personally ever.

Or do we all need a Ups because my pc had no issues without for a long time now.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Hi,
If that is the case you should be fine with good surge protector
Battery helps people save work and shut down normally instead of sudden power outage common in the USA.

I really wish folks would take the time to actually learn what an UPS does. Especially before telling others what they need or don't need.

Once again, a good UPS with AVR is NOT just a battery backup during power outages. And the batteries in a good UPS are NOT just for backup power. Contrary to what some seem to believe, and want others to believe too, sags and brownouts are much more common than many think - even in countries with modern power grids like the UK and other places that had to totally rebuild their infrastructures after the war.

Even within the home, sags occur. For example, when big wattage items, like ovens, electric clothes dryers, AC units, even hair dryers, dips and sags may occur. A good UPS will use its batteries to boost the voltage back up to normal levels.

A PSU of decent quality will be fine with the same regulation

I'm not spending 1k to protect 3k personally ever.

Huh? Who's suggesting you spend 1k? Not me. A really decent UPS with AVR can be had for under $200 (£147).

And same regulation? What same regulation? A surge and spike protector provides zero regulation. Chopping off the tops of sinewaves is not regulation. And a decent UPS is NOT just for the computer's power supply. It also protects and supports the monitor(s) and network gear too.

And for what its worth, I used to live in East Anglia, UK. And for sure, power fluctuations and even outages happen in the UK too. And again, destructive anomalies don't always come off the grid. A faulty 1500W, £15 hair dryer made in China can wreck havoc too.

And for what its worth, I spent about 6 weeks in Turkey too. At Incirlik and Ancora. I would never connect a PC without the protection of a good UPS with AVR.

 

[freeagent]

I use a line conditioner that has built in surge suppression. Its for my home theater.. its gotta be better than just the wall right?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I really wish folks would take the time to actually learn what an UPS does. Especially before telling others what they need or don't need.

Once again, a good UPS with AVR is NOT just a battery backup during power outages. And the batteries in a good UPS are NOT just for backup power. Contrary to what some seem to believe, and want others to believe too, sags and brownouts are much more common than many think - even in countries with modern power grids like the UK and other places that had to totally rebuild their infrastructures after the war.

Even within the home, sags occur. For example, when big wattage items, like ovens, electric clothes dryers, AC units, even hair dryers, dips and sags may occur. A good UPS will use its batteries to boost the voltage back up to normal levels.


Huh? Who's suggesting you spend 1k? Not me. A really decent UPS with AVR can be had for under $200 (£147).

And same regulation? What same regulation? A surge and spike protector provides zero regulation. Chopping off the tops of sinewaves is not regulation. And a decent UPS is NOT just for the computer's power supply. It also protects and supports the monitor(s) and network gear too.

And for what its worth, I used to live in East Anglia, UK. And for sure, power fluctuations and even outages happen in the UK too. And again, destructive anomalies don't always come off the grid. A faulty 1500W, £15 hair dryer made in China can wreck havoc too.

And for what its worth, I spent about 6 weeks in Turkey too. At Incirlik and Ancora. I would never connect a PC without the protection of a good UPS with AVR.

A PSU has big caps in it for just that ripple suppression and a small degree of brown out survival and a good one all the protective circuitry you need upto a lightning strike.
Well I must be lucky these last many years.
You want a UPS fine it provides more protection no doubt but IMHO it's not essential and for most not necessary.
Your ok to disagree but from my perspective I'm right still ..