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HP Envy X360 2500U power throttling question

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#1
Hello

My main PC is out of action atm. I've been playing a lot of Fallout 76 with my friend. Well... I use the term "Playing" loosely here which brings me to my question.

The Ryzen 5 2500 U in the X360 Envy, 13", seems to have a 100 second timed power limit of 12W (the cTDP down of the 2500U, which the device is designed for). After those 100 seconds pass. it reduces the power use of the SOC to 8W. THat's a fairly large chunk of power budget i lose. It effectively cuts my Frame rate in half . GPU clocks in '76 drop from 600-700MHz to 300-400. Yeah... Those 4W make a huge difference.

I am 100% GPU bound playing '76 at .ini tweaked low, at 1024x768. After starting the game, for 100 seconds at 12W i am getting 35-40fps. After the timed turbo drops, i am always below 30 and near 20-25 with dips to 15 or sub 20 in some scenes. the drop in smoothness is huge. THing is, it's not thermal throttling. the SOC is at 80C at 12W, stable. after the 100 seconds its at 65-70c lol.

What bugs me is the system can produce playable FPS in this game at my potato settings (IDC what it looks like, i just wanna play it). But after those 100 seconds, BAM. sub 30. Bugs me massively. Interesting is that if i unplug the power cord then plug it back in, it goes back to 12W for another 100 seconds lol. SO i've just been unplugging power cord nearly every 2 mins to keep my fps above 30 lol.... Btw the device is set to "Performance mode" in the HP command centre.

Question: BIOS mod/hack possible to get this damn soc to stay at 12W budge in sustained gaming? Yay or nay? Maybe i can bug HP for a firmware update? IT's not as if the device overheats. 80C is nothing when you're at 0.8V....

YEs im aware its not a gaming device. But i have it now so its what im working with.

ANyway what's the point in having "the worlds most powerful graphics in this form factor" if it only lasts 100 seconds?

Here's some screenshots of my awesome gaming experience at 8W:

potato.png

lolff.jpg

potato2.jpg

yes the number under "Ram use" is my frame rate........

Irony is, i bet the Intel iGPU version of the envy has higher FPS at 8W lmao...
 

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#2
Tried the latest Adrenalines that finally have mobile support? May be able to tweak and possibly take advantage of Wattman( not sure on that part)
 
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#3
already on the mobile raven driver from AMD site, wattman is conveniently not present in the CP lol. Also Ryzen master says "Platform not supported" T_T
 
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#4
Just brainstorming here: What if you set the CPU to 97/95/90 % maximum clock speed? What will happen with this 100 second limit?

I'm thinking that in order to avoid whatever limit that cuts the FPS in half, you might find a setting that just sacrifices a few FPS? Even if only as a temporary fix?

Also, have you tried undervolting the CPU? Dunno if it's possible, but undervolting can get you some crazy gains on laptops.
I only have an example with Intel CPU's, but it's still interesting.
"Core i5 Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Tablet 25% faster than i7"
 
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#5
Just brainstorming here: What if you set the CPU to 97/95/90 % maximum clock speed? What will happen with this 100 second limit?

I'm thinking that in order to avoid whatever limit that cuts the FPS in half, you might find a setting that just sacrifices a few FPS? Even if only a temporary fix?

Also, have you tried undervolting the CPU? Dunno if it's possible, but undervolting can get you some crazy gains on laptops.
Tried to set the CPU clock speed as low as it goes in the power managment in windows to free up some budget for the GPU, thing is cpu cores already at 1.5 ghz, which is below base speed of 2. So it makes no difference :/ afaik there is no overclocking/voltage adjustment options at all for this chip.

Raven Ridge is good yo, but it's just not efficient enough at sub 10W lol... bring on the 7nm APU's..
 
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#7
Possible, but IDK. Unlike my firend's 2700 laptop which is a B450 board, this board is apparently Carizzo FCH, in fact, i don't think it even has a chipset.. as all I/o is handled by the soc. It's probably hard locked from Ryzen master entirely.
soc.jpg


I have no idea how i would even go about that though :/
 
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#9
Daaayyum! Nice find! My google-fu skills are pretty poor lol. I'm going to try this right now!!:love::lovetpu::toast:
 

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#10
You can find some good information here
My Pavillion 15-cw0004nf (2500u) had the same problem: 30W Short Term Power and then 15w STAPM. Now i'm running it without STAPM limit, it's night and day :)
Temp is ok
+1 be sure using latest Adrenalines
 
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#11
@Mats

tried that tool and managed to get it to 1000mhz GPU boost! and i had 45+fps at 20W (lol) for a very short time (10 seconds) then right back to 7-8W and 300 MHz GPU :( I can't get it to stop throttling. Even with temp limit to 95.. Maybe something im doing wrong? Temps are fine, its 90,c stable. im okay with that for the gaming performance...

@lulu14150

Looks promising but I can't make sense of that. I'm stupid please explain to me how to make it work :(

also:
Worth noting that anything you do here is on your own risk. Don't change these if you have no idea what you're doing.
:x
 
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#12
@Mats

tried that tool and managed to get it to 1000mhz GPU boost! and i had 45+fps at 20W (lol) for a very short time (10 seconds) then right back to 7-8W and 300 MHz GPU :( I can't get it to stop throttling. Even with temp limit to 95.. Maybe something im doing wrong? Temps are fine, its 90,c stable. im okay with that for the gaming performance...

@lulu14150

Looks promising but I can't make sense of that. I'm stupid please explain to me how to make it work :(

also:

:x
Otherwise this is a sort of "Ryzen Master" for mobile Ryzen :toast:
I haven't tried it
 

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#14
already on the mobile raven driver from AMD site, wattman is conveniently not present in the CP lol. Also Ryzen master says "Platform not supported" T_T
Damn! well it was reaching anyway I suppose.
 
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#15
65W.jpg

15.jpg


( ͡◉ ͜ʖ ͡◉)

Edit:

unfortunately this doesn't work on my envy, in games i can get it to short boost higher (100 sec) but it will throttle like mad to 6W after. in CPU tests it just sits at 6W. RIp.
 

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#16
Shame they’ve neutered it so badly considering...
 
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#17
Shame they’ve neutered it so badly considering...
Yup! IF it knew it was this bad i'd have got the INTEL version for the better battery life when browsing web. Most powerful iGPU in ultraslim my a**.

Thanks HP.

@Mats
@lulu14150

Pleaaase someone help me. I want to love this envy but I caaaan't because nothing I do will stop the little potato from throttling to 8W after about 2 minutes.. I Was playing with the "ryzenadj" software and set to high performance and it turbo super good, to 2-2.5ghz all core on CPU and 700MHz GPU!!! I was getting 100FPS+ in WF 720p low settings. and it was taking 13-14W and at about 85c stable. not even THAT loud.

And then something in this firmware, bios, software, driver or whatever decides that I'm having too much fun and slices the chip power budget in half and my GPU clock drops below 400 mhz and frame rate tanks accordingly. not a huge problem in WF since its still around 60fps, but in F76 this reduction makes the difference between playable and unplayable. The device can handle it, the limit is artificial!!!

For the love of potato, why not let ME configure what the boost times/rates are so that i can tune the device to suit me? I don't understand. Is it product segmentation? does the 2700U have a higher sustained power budget? Urgh.

Guide me please, I'm stupid. And I want to like my Envy x360 and think the "World's most powerful Graphics in ultrathin" is more than a stupid gimmick.
 
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#18
It seems like H.P. have set the cTDP to 12W when Default TDP is15W.
The cTDP is 12 - 25W.
Sounds like a BIOS mod is needed.
This video shows your laptop in comparison to an intel version.
 
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#19
It seems like H.P. have set the cTDP to 12W when Default TDP is15W.
The cTDP is 12 - 25W.
Sounds like a BIOS mod is needed.
Can you help me with that? Is it possible? Thanks

btw it is fine at 12W, the real limit is the 8W throttle after 2 minutes
 
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#20
First of all, big up to @lulu14150 who pretty much signed up just to help the OP! :toast: This link, taken from the reddit he/she linked to, tells a bit more about what to do.
Now I have no idea how to do this, and I've never even used a Ryzen laptop. I think it's difficult to describe step for step how to do it since the method varies from model to model.
Your best options are probably to read up on it and learn how to modify DSDT, or find someone who can do it IRL on your laptop.

Sounds like a BIOS mod is needed.
No, probably not. @lulu14150's link shows that you have to edit the DSDT.
 
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#21
ugh CALLED IT. At the same TDP the Raven RIdge GPUis similar/worse than the Intel IGPU. And i could've got a better CPU performance and better battery life with the Intel. My only saving grace is that this was £200 cheaper than the intel 4/8 version when i bought it. so i guess it's not all that bad

First of all, big up to @lulu14150 who pretty much signed up just to help the OP! :toast: This link, taken from the reddit he/she linked to, tells a bit more about what to do.
Now I have no idea how to do this, and I've never even used a Ryzen laptop. I think it's difficult to describe step for step how to do it since the method varies from model to model.
Your best options are probably to read up on it and learn how to modify DSDT, or find someone who can do it IRL on your laptop.
Omg I didn't see that. @lulu14150 thanks bud, very much appreciated :toast::toast::toast:

I'm not fiddling with that unless someone can hold my hand lol :( I know I'll mess it up
 
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#22
I can tell you what I gather from it. You/your hacker friend have to find the power values as described in the link. See how they've found the power values in hexadecimal (in red)?
1553042960659.png
All you need to know is that yours is set to 12 and 8 W = 12000 and 8000 mW. 12000 is 0x2EE0, and 8000 is 0x1F40 in hexadecimal.

Find the correct 0x1F40 in DSDT and change it to 0x2EE0 and you've set it to 12 W permanently.. until you reboot it. That's why you need to add a program that injects the code every time you boot. Edit: Noo, that's not it. I haven't done this in ten years, it's gone.. :banghead:

This is not a lot of work, but it requires some understanding of how it works.
 
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#23
https://bitsum.com/bhp/
Process Lasso is software that helps control affinity and core parking, to quote: Core parking is disabled and the CPU is never running below its base frequency.
I have no experience with this myself so it's try it at your own risk.
 
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#24
https://bitsum.com/bhp/
Process Lasso is software that helps control affinity and core parking, to quote: Core parking is disabled and the CPU is never running below its base frequency.
I have no experience with this myself so it's try it at your own risk.
the cores parking at idle save power no? also they do not park under load, the cpu throttles below base frquency because the wattage limit for the package is too low.


I can tell you what I gather from it. You/your hacker friend have to find the power values as described in the link. See how they've found the power values in hexadecimal (in red)?
View attachment 119099
All you need to know is that yours is set to 12 and 8 W = 12000 and 8000 mW. 12000 is 0x2EE0, and 8000 is 0x1F40 in hexadecimal.

Find the correct 0x1F40 in DSDT and change it to 0x2EE0 and you've set it to 12 W permanently.. until you reboot it. That's why you need to add a program that injects the code every time you boot.

This is not a lot of work, but it requires some understanding of how it works.
okay so.. what is DSDT how can i edit it? :x
 
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#25
Another tip - Go to HP Community forums and ask around. I'm not saying they know more than TPU people, but they might share the same issue and might be able to point you in the right direction. I've found the info I needed in that forum for my HP, just because so many had the exact same issues.

Whatever you do, don't expect it to get fixed in a few minutes. Keep on searching and learning and you might fix it in the end, even if it takes some time.

okay so.. what is DSDT how can i edit it? :x
This might work: http://rweverything.com
 
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