HTC Vivecon 2021 May 11th and 12th

[Mindweaver]

Vivecon is set for May 11th and 12th. They have been teasing a new VR HMD. All the leaks so far haven't be promising, but today's leak does!

New leak

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1388394173955547140

first image which makes it look like it might only have to front facing cameras

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387824945216978946

 

[xkm1948]

I have given up on HTC. They did a solid with OG Vive. Vive Pro was OK but that pricing is meh. The Cosmos was a disaster.

It is like they wanna paddle both light house and camera tracking and ended up not accomplishing anything. IMO they should have stayed with light house solution while also goes the Quest2 kinda way. Removing camera from HMD can remove some power cost while maintaining excellent tracking precision. Keep the price competitive and they would hold the market for sure since lots of people hate FB

Unfortunately they wanna copy Apple and have an insane price tag while providing worse and worse performance and quality control. And they very quickly got dumped by the VR main stream. They had all the advantages as one of the best early entry vendor. Incompetent management drive them into the ground, just like they drove their phone business into the ground.

 

[Mindweaver]

I have given up on HTC. They did a solid with OG Vive. Vive Pro was OK but that pricing is meh. The Cosmos was a disaster.

It is like they wanna paddle both light house and camera tracking and ended up not accomplishing anything. IMO they should have stayed with light house solution while also goes the Quest2 kinda way. Removing camera from HMD can remove some power cost while maintaining excellent tracking precision. Keep the price competitive and they would hold the market for sure since lots of people hate FB

Unfortunately they wanna copy Apple and have an insane price tag while providing worse and worse performance and quality control. And they very quickly got dumped by the VR main stream. They had all the advantages as one of the best early entry vendor. Incompetent management drive them into the ground, just like they drove their phone business into the ground.

Yeah, the OG Vive was their best HMD, but that was only due to Valve doing all of the RND. The Vive Pro wasn't bad but I agree way overpriced. I expect this to be overpriced as well. If this is higher than $499 then it will fail. I'm just curious to see what they have to offer. It will be interesting to see if the same people will have an issue when they have to create an HTC account to use it. I don't expect much but I am interested to see what they have learned from the cosmos.

 

[Octavean]

My understanding was that HTC exited the retail market. Therefore it stands to reason that any new VR HMD would target the professional / enterprise market and be priced accordingly.

As for the original HTC Vive, it along with the Oculus Quest kicked of the modern VR market and were priced for early adopters. The Vive Pro Was an iterative improvement spect higher and naturally that cost $$$. This was a strategy of providing a higher end experiences. Whereas Oculus started to go the more cost conscious route

The Vive Cosmos certainly earned its bad reputation but the modularity of supporting both inside out tracking and outside in tracking was exactly what I wanted to see in VR going forward.

 

[Mindweaver]

My understanding was that HTC exited the retail market. Therefore it stands to reason that any new VR HMD would target the professional / enterprise market and be priced accordingly.

As for the original HTC Vive, it along with the Oculus Quest kicked of the modern VR market and were priced for early adopters. The Vive Pro Was an iterative improvement spect higher and naturally that cost $$$. This was a strategy of providing a higher end experiences. Whereas Oculus started to go the more cost conscious route

The Vive Cosmos certainly earned its bad reputation but the modularity of supporting both inside out tracking and outside in tracking was exactly what I wanted to see in VR going forward.

Your understanding is correct. HTC had to exit the retail market only because they could not compete with FB, MS, Valve. I don't expect to be able to afford any of the new HTC headsets but I am curious to see what they have to offer. The were hinting around on these hmd's for weeks on Twitter, but just last week confirmed that they would have enterprise HMD's, but no word of a consumer grade hmd. I just don't think they can offer anything close to the Quest 2 in terms of hardware quality and software. Their pc store is pretty crappy.

 

[Octavean]

Your understanding is correct. HTC had to exit the retail market only because they could not compete with FB, MS, Valve. I don't expect to be able to afford any of the new HTC headsets but I am curious to see what they have to offer. The were hinting around on these hmd's for weeks on Twitter, but just last week confirmed that they would have enterprise HMD's, but no word of a consumer grade hmd. I just don't think they can offer anything close to the Quest 2 in terms of hardware quality and software. Their pc store is pretty crappy.

Yeah, Oculus (FB) has a walled garden for the Quest / Quest 2 and that alone can generate revenue from even a cheap VR HMD like the Quest / Quest 2. Making FB compulsory also presumably generates revenue.

If HTC had taking an effective walled garden approach it could have helped offset the costs. Also, who knows what kind of deal HTC made with Valve to use their tech and what it cost them?

I still think the HTC Vive Cosmos with outside-in tracking is a fairly good option. It’s the cost that makes it unpalatable. If you can get the sum of the parts for cheap and the hardware is still properly supported at the time, I wouldn’t hesitate.

As an aside, there was no mention of FB being mandatory for the original Quest (when sold) so I’m not sure how Oculus / FB can get away with making it so,...... Quest 2 sure but not the original Quest.

 

[Mindweaver]

The only other bad thing about the Cosmos is the flip up part moves a lot and in fast moving games like beat saber make it hard to play. What really hurt HTC was their greed and the fact they were losing money from thier phone side. They tried to pull a samsung over apple by cutting out Valve (my theory) like samsung did with apple when they made the Samsung Galaxy Android phone. They built the Vive Pro without valves input and it showed. While the upgraded screens where nice the rest wasn't great and way over priced.

 

[Octavean]

The only other bad thing about the Cosmos is the flip up part moves a lot and in fast moving games like beat saber make it hard to play. What really hurt HTC was their greed and the fact they were losing money from thier phone side. They tried to pull a samsung over apple by cutting out Valve (my theory) like samsung did with apple when they made the Samsung Galaxy Android phone. They built the Vive Pro without valves input and it showed. While the upgraded screens where nice the rest wasn't great and way over priced.

That is unfortunate but one would think that the Cosmos flip up / stability issue could be fixed with an aftermarket or 3D printed custom strap. It wouldn’t be the only VR HMD that had a poor quality / poor functioning default strap.

 

[Mindweaver]

That is unfortunate but one would think that the Cosmos flip up / stability issue could be fixed with an aftermarket or 3D printed custom strap. It wouldn’t be the only VR HMD that had a poor quality / poor functioning default strap.

yeah but honestly the Quest 2 is much better at a 3rd of the price with inside out tracking. FB should just give in and coin the phrase "total tracking" which is just their inside out tracking and FB Tracking combined.. lol I shouldn't joke becasue I will draw the FB haters and they won't care that I'm just joking.

 

[Octavean]

yeah but honestly the Quest 2 is much better at a 3rd of the price with inside out tracking.

Well, sure,...

It‘s difficult to near on impossible to beat the Oculus Quest 2 with respect to price and performance overall. However, inside-out tracking simply isn’t as good as Steam VR 2.0 or even 1.0 tracking. Maybe inside-out tracking is 90 to 95% as good but it has its rough spots that are if not problematic then at least occasionally annoying. Even the original Oculus Rift sensor tracking in actual use performed better IMO.

Yes it’s easy to setup Oculus inside-out tracking but just because something is easier to setup doesn’t mean it performs better when the rubber hits the road. The issue is chiefly with controller occlusion. It’s good enough or better then good enough but it isn’t excellent.

Still, what we can see of the market thus far is that what is more readily acceptable by most so inclined to buy into VR is cheaper VR HMD’s with incremental improvements over expensive setups (such as the Vive and Index).

 

[xkm1948]

For all the fellas hating on FB integration, HTC got you covered ahahaha.

Yeah price is not that low without subsidiarity.

Quest2 still looks amazing value.

HTC on the other hand.... Vive Pro 2 without wireless options. Focus3 dont even have consumer version. Oh well.

 

[the54thvoid]

Serious question, how do these headsets work with glasses wearers? Always wanted to play HL Alex but not buying a VR set for one game and possible comfort issues.

 

[Mindweaver]

Well, sure,...

It‘s difficult to near on impossible to beat the Oculus Quest 2 with respect to price and performance overall. However, inside-out tracking simply isn’t as good as Steam VR 2.0 or even 1.0 tracking. Maybe inside-out tracking is 90 to 95% as good but it has its rough spots that are if not problematic then at least occasionally annoying. Even the original Oculus Rift sensor tracking in actual use performed better IMO.

Yes it’s easy to setup Oculus inside-out tracking but just because something is easier to setup doesn’t mean it performs better when the rubber hits the road. The issue is chiefly with controller occlusion. It’s good enough or better then good enough but it isn’t excellent.

Still, what we can see of the market thus far is that what is more readily acceptable by most so inclined to buy into VR is cheaper VR HMD’s with incremental improvements over expensive setups (such as the Vive and Index).

I loved my Vive tracking but the Quest 2 and Rift S tracking is good enough. I haven't had an issue and it works great. I can even hold my controller up to my face and they still track. I'll pick inside out tracking everytime over base station tracking now. Nobody talks about the humming it made and it's not perfect either and I've lost tracking with Lighthouse. It was great and still is and better than Oculus's outside in camera tracking, but having the ease of use of inside out tracking is way better in my opinion.

For all the fellas hating on FB integration, HTC got you covered ahahaha.

Yeah price is not that low without subsidiarity.

Quest2 still looks amazing value.

HTC on the other hand.... Vive Pro 2 without wireless options. Focus3 dont even have consumer version. Oh well.

Yeah those prices are crazy... The Vive Pro 2 feels like HTC's Rift S... and Focus 3 really dropped the ball with it not having eye tracking for $1300. I started to post both videos yesterday but it was just a big disappointment.

Serious question, how do these headsets work with glasses wearers? Always wanted to play HL Alex but not buying a VR set for one game and possible comfort issues.

From what I've seen it works great with the right spacers. The best I've seen are the glasses inserts. HL Alex is worth it alone and it has mod support with some great mods but there is so many good games to play right now. I really like Saints and Sinners. Someone created Bioshock for HLA and it's pretty amazing.

 

[xkm1948]

I loved my Vive tracking but the Quest 2 and Rift S tracking is good enough. I haven't had an issue and it works great. I can even hold my controller up to my face and they still track. I'll pick inside out tracking everytime over base station tracking now. Nobody talks about the humming it made and it's not perfect either and I've lost tracking with Lighthouse. It was great and still is and better than Oculus's outside in camera tracking, but having the ease of use of inside out tracking is way better in my opinion.


Yeah those prices are crazy... The Vive Pro 2 feels like HTC's Rift S... and Focus 3 really dropped the ball with it not having eye tracking for $1300. I started to post both videos yesterday but it was just a big disappointment.


From what I've seen it works great with the right spacers. The best I've seen are the glasses inserts. HL Alex is worth it alone and it has mod support with some great mods but there is so many good games to play right now. I really like Saints and Sinners. Someone created Bioshock for HLA and it's pretty amazing.

bioshock VR?????? Where?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Mindweaver]

bioshock VR?????? Where?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Wow are you telling me that you are not trying any of the Alyx workshop mods? Check them out here Alyx Workshop mods. The Bioshock mods are in parts. You need to subscribe to all. Example Return to Rapture 1. There is around 7 or 8 so far and they are great! The eaziest way to get mods is using the non vr steam store. Just go to the game in your library and then select workshop. Then just start Subscribing to whatever you like. The only thing I wish Valve would do is let you try them with out creating a new save file. Currently you'll have to select a new save spot and then change Original Game at the top to Addon Maps then select one of your subscribed mods.

 

[xkm1948]

Wow are you telling me that you are not trying any of the Alyx workshop mods? Check them out here Alyx Workshop mods. The Bioshock mods are in parts. You need to subscribe to all. Example Return to Rapture 1. There is around 7 or 8 so far and they are great! The eaziest way to get mods is using the non vr steam store. Just go to the game in your library and then select workshop. Then just start Subscribing to whatever you like. The only thing I wish Valve would do is let you try them with out creating a new save file. Currently you'll have to select a new save spot and then change Original Game at the top to Addon Maps then select one of your subscribed mods.

lol I have been living under a rock man. Thanks for the info!!

My daughter has been hogging my Quest2. Any time I turned it on she rushes over and took it for herself.

 

[Mindweaver]

lol I have been living under a rock man. Thanks for the info!!

My daughter has been hogging my Quest2. Any time I turned it on she rushes over and took it for herself.

My daughters do the same. I put one one quest 2 and the other on Rift S... lol