I need more SC perf. out of my 1600X

[fec32a4de]

Hey guys.

As the title says, I need to get more single core performance out of my Ryzen 1600X

The expensive, and atm impossible option would be to get an Intel mobo plus a CPU like 8086k which can SC boost to 5GHz. But I'm very short on $$ right now so best I can do is overclock
my 1600X.

Using Ryzen Master, I managed to overclock the CPU to 3925MHz as the final stable. No heat issues, no voltage changes.

CPU is reporting 1.375V, I didn't change this value, kind of afraid.

I tried disabling cores, SMT, etc. But is there anything else I can do to try and go further? Maybe 4050, 4100?

My motherboard isn't the best for overclocking, its ASRock B450.

Thanks!

 

[Frick]

Why?

 

[Dinnercore]

Why?

I´m going to join that question.

It seems like you really want to go for single core performance, if you disable cores just to get a bit more. You can do that, it helps with overclocking and reduces the overall temps on higher voltages.
Could get my 1800x up a bit more by disabling half of the cores, but other for very specific benchmarks it is not worth it.

Ryzen first gen are not high clocking chips, especially on ambient cooling.

What you can do is first of all monitor your current temps at the 1.375 you see and check if you got any headroom left. What cooler do you use? Air or aio water?

 

[kastriot]

1) You shoulld thinked about this before you bought 1600X
2) You can sell 1600X and get 2600X you get small boost
3) You can sell all your rig and get 8700K
4) OC can't bring you 5GHz unfortunately.

 

[Vayra86]

You will not extract a meaningful performance boost from overclocking this to the limit. Drop the idea, deal with it and start saving for an upgrade. If single core perf is all you want, I would suggest an i5 8600K. Selling your Ryzen + board should recoup most of your expenses.

 

[Final_Fighter]

set the core voltage to 1.40v in the bios. if cooling is not a problem then try upping your core frequency to 4ghz.

it would not surprise me if your cpu has segfault. i have not worked with a 1600x that could not hit 4ghz with some patience unless segfault was the issue. i don't exactly know why but non segfault ryzens clock higher and need less voltage to get there. my original 1600 could not do more than 3.850ghz at the current voltage. my replacement can do 4.025ghz. if you want to test for this i recommend setting up ubuntu-17.10.1 onto another partition and running this.

but first lets see how high you can get yours. try the settings i suggested earlier and see if you can get to 4ghz

 

[kapone32]

Sell your 1600x and get a 2600. I can get 4.2 GHZ, but the best thing for performance with Ryzen is fast memory The Gskill RIpjaws V series have worked in every build. Even 3600MHZ runs on the 2nd gen AM4 motherboards

 

[robot zombie]

I don't know that there's much you can do there... ...whatever gains you have left to squeeze out probably aren't worth the heat gain. It'll be a small benefit.

You have some voltage headroom, assuming temperatures are okay there. You'll probably need to play with LLC settings a little bit. You're gonna need to make sure you're watching voltages under load for your stress tests. If you're going over the voltage you have set then you'll need to lower it a level. Another thing worth playing with is switching frequency, upping it to 400 can help stabilize power and keep it from crashing in that critical moment. Wouldn't up it too high on that board though, VRM temperatures will go up, as you're taking away efficiency to provide flatter power delivery.

Try manually adjusting the voltage, too. IME sometimes too high of a voltage can cause just as much trouble as not enough - has to to with temperatures, but also just sensitivity. Going too far one way or the other causes the same problems. You'll have to really sit down with it and find the sweet spot. It's worth doing, anyway. Auto can sometimes push too high, which can actually hurt your max overclock. And if you can pull some more voltage headroom out, then you can usually squeeze more mhz out, too. Again, getting to know your LLC settings will help... ...reducing droop allows you to lower overall voltages, and more effective power delivery at lower voltages is better for temperature/stability.

Fast RAM helps a bunch, too, but that'll probably cost some money. Still, getting your RAM up from that 2133 it's at now would help a lot, assuming reasonable timings. Even 2666 would be significantly better. Ideally you want 3000+ But again, it's only going to be worth it if you can keep timings down. And honestly, this is a huge can of worms.

But seriously, it's gonna take some real nitty-gritty work to make what you want happen. And the gains probably aren't worth it. Best to just hold out and save for an Intel setup - if SC is all you care about, or grab a Zen+ chip, maybe even wait for Zen 2. In the meantime you'll probably just have to live with it. Keep tweaking it. A lot of it can't be solved by asking us generic questions. You need to delve into it yourself and find the specific limitations. From there, maybe we can help you squeeze a little more out. Sounds like you'll have the time.

And since nobody's asked, why the push for SC performance?

 

[fec32a4de]

I wouldn't focus on SC performance in 2018, but problem being I'm now required to run certain old programs that aren't multithreaded. I never cared about benchmarks.

I didn't think that I'd need SC performance in 2018 when I bought the 1600X, I was surprised tbh.

Clocked to 3.990, this is all on Air, with 1.375, temp went from 36.8C/98.24f to 41C/105.8f, I was worried it we higher actually.

I noticed that despite SMT being off in BIOS and Ryzen Master, it wouldn't register that its off every restart? That is weird.
I'm gonna start looking at buying faster RAM, but with the prices as they are, I'm not sure what I can do at the moment. Buying faster RAM sounds good because if I can somehow switch to
Intel I can use it there.

Thanks for your help guys

 

[robot zombie]

I wouldn't focus on SC performance in 2018, but problem being I'm now required to run certain old programs that aren't multithreaded. I never cared about benchmarks.

I didn't think that I'd need SC performance in 2018 when I bought the 1600X, I was surprised tbh.

Ahh, yeah that's why I asked. Single core is always gonna matter a lot, but these days Ryzen has enough for most people, and the multi-core performance is a better compromise. But when you need it, you need it. I can understand that. Was just curious.

Clocked to 3.990, this is all on Air, with 1.375, temp went from 36.8C/98.24f to 41C/105.8f, I was worried it we higher actually.

Ahh, but that's idle, right? What happens when you put it under a max utilization load?

I noticed that despite SMT being off in BIOS and Ryzen Master, it wouldn't register that its off every restart? That is weird.

It's a bit wonky, as OS-side apps interfacing with the BIOS often are. Personally I like using it to find ranges, but the last phase still happens in BIOS for me. Between what your BIOS says and what Ryzen Master says, I'd probably trust BIOS, but honestly I really don't know which is correct.

I'm gonna start looking at buying faster RAM, but with the prices as they are, I'm not sure what I can do at the moment. Buying faster RAM sounds good because if I can somehow switch to
Intel I can use it there.

Yeap, it's a good investment no matter what you do. Though in the meantime I would still encourage you to try overclocking that ram. You might be surprised at what it can actually do!

 

[notb]

I didn't think that I'd need SC performance in 2018 when I bought the 1600X, I was surprised tbh.

Oh man... you'll be really amazed in 2038.

Clocked to 3.990, this is all on Air, with 1.375, temp went from 36.8C/98.24f to 41C/105.8f, I was worried it we higher actually.

Is all this OC giving you any visible gain in the app you're using?
Because 1600X should be able to boost to 4GHz on a single core on its own. IMO, you are wasting time here.
That is assuming, obviously, you're not running other heavy programs simultaneously with the one you care about so much.

Moving to Intel is an option, but not a cheap one, if you're already in AMD ecosystem.
8700K with a bit of OC could be 50% faster than 1600X. But that's an expensive CPU + Z370 + (potentially) an expensive cooler if the one you have is not sufficient (or incompatible).
Why not an 8700 instead? You'll save on CPU and on mobo. If you're fine with a bit of noise, the stock cooler will be OK (and whatever you use on 1600X will as well - again - if it is compatible).
8700 boosts to 4.6GHz on a single core and won't be far behind the 8700K.
8600K is another option and again: the premium for overclocking is huge and 8600 is also great.

 

[Vya Domus]

I wouldn't focus on SC performance in 2018, but problem being I'm now required to run certain old programs that aren't multithreaded.

I am curious, what are those programs ?

 

[Frick]

And since nobody's asked, why the push for SC performance?

Second post.

I am curious, what are those programs ?

I'd like to know this too. And the onle tangible difference would indeed be to go for Intel, and even then it's highly dependant on the program and purpose if it could be considered as "worth it".

 

[king of swag187]

A cheap option would be a 2600X, a lengthier option would be to sell the MOBO+CPU+Cooler and save up the remaining to get a 8600K/8700K/7700K

 

[Caring1]

Is all this OC giving you any visible gain in the app you're using?
Because 1600X should be able to boost to 4GHz on a single core on its own.

^^^^ This.
The 1600X should boost higher than the manual overclock you have achieved, if left stock.

 

[eidairaman1]

Hey guys.

As the title says, I need to get more single core performance out of my Ryzen 1600X

The expensive, and atm impossible option would be to get an Intel mobo plus a CPU like 8086k which can SC boost to 5GHz. But I'm very short on $$ right now so best I can do is overclock
my 1600X.

Using Ryzen Master, I managed to overclock the CPU to 3925MHz as the final stable. No heat issues, no voltage changes.

CPU is reporting 1.375V, I didn't change this value, kind of afraid.

I tried disabling cores, SMT, etc. But is there anything else I can do to try and go further? Maybe 4050, 4100?

My motherboard isn't the best for overclocking, its ASRock B450.

Thanks!

Change mobo to 1 with better vrms

 

[robot zombie]

Change mobo to 1 with better vrms

I'm suspecting this is part of it, too.

But by the time we're swapping mobos and stuff, we're halfawy to an upgrade one way or the other.

 

[eidairaman1]

I'm suspecting this is part of it, too.

But by the time we're swapping mobos and stuff, we're halfawy to an upgrade one way or the other.

For Ryzen it's Ram and motherboard. Faster the ram that is compatible the better IF works.

 

[robot zombie]

For Ryzen it's Ram and motherboard. Faster the ram that is compatible the better IF works.

Oh I agree completely. I was just saying it seems like OP is more interested in getting a little more out of what he already has.

Ideally I would say 2600/X, x470, and b-die. But doesn't seem like that's an option atm.

 

[eidairaman1]

Oh I agree completely. I was just saying it seems like OP is more interested in getting a little more out of what he already has.

Ideally I would say 2600/X, x470, and b-die. But doesn't seem like that's an option atm.

Some boards are getting bios updates that are slowly adding optimization tweaks in advanced settings.

 

[robot zombie]

Some boards are getting bios updates that are slowly adding optimization tweaks in advanced settings.

It's hit or miss. Though you're right, the B450's are still lagging behind the X470's in firmware. But VRM's are also a factor. When you get to 6-core and 8-core Ryzen, the heat and droop from some of those sad 4-phase VRM's on the B450's can really hold you back. They start to soak up a lot of current, while the VRM's struggle to hold steady voltage under load.

I still feel like any B450 shouldn't have too much trouble getting a 1600X to 4ghz, though. Maybe even a little bit higher. Could be a little bit of both BIOS and VRM limitations. That or just lost silicon lottery. If it were me, shooting for the best SC performance on Ryzen, I'd want to make sure I have a board that'll handle the extra power from a max overclock, and enable high CPU/RAM speeds out of the box. B-model boards can sometimes surprise you, but generally I don't think they're meant for pushing the limits of what the CPU and RAM can do. Varies from model to model I suppose. I'm not familiar with the OP's board, just kind of a general statement on them.

I still think RAM is probably the best thing to shoot for right now. The difference from 2133 to say, 3000 would be pretty significant. And that is something attainable that carries over to a larger upgrade later, even if you change platforms.

Maybe a little later a BIOS update will roll along that'll enable a slightly higher CPU OC, too. Though to me the difference between where you're at now and the absolute max a 1600X will usually do isn't that much. At the end of the day, a hardware upgrade is needed to see any significant SC performance increases over a 1600X @ 3.9ghz. Even 4.1ghz isn't huge. It's already about as far as it's gonna go.

At this point, I'd live with it if possible and go for Zen 2 when it comes out. Can probably keep the mobo, and the fast ram, if you upgrade that. Probably the least you can spend short of selling CPU/mobo and starting over. The 2600X has better single-core performance, but if you already have a 1600X it's probably something like going from an GTX960 to a 1060.

I dunno, just what I would do, rather than try to make these little advances in headway. I mean, unless somebody wants to buy that 1600X for a little less than a 2600X. Though I'm assuming the motherboard is okay. It could always be a mobo limitation. In which case you'd probably wanna upgrade that anyway.

*shrugs* I don't know what you want, man. Don't take it the wrong way, I don't want to be harsh. It's just without making changes to your system, it ain't gonna happen :/

 

[Caring1]

For Ryzen it's Ram and motherboard. Faster the ram that is compatible the better IF works.

For multi core, yes.
But I think lower ram speed may help single core?
@cadaveca
your insight please?

 

[Vayra86]

You can do whatever you like but more than a 5-10% performance win is not to be had here.

In other words, stop wasting time. Use that time to run your applications instead and you've already gained more than any kind of RAM swap or OC will give you. Getting expensive B-die sticks.... massive waste of money. Going to Ryzen refresh... similarly pointless IMO. If you're gonna spend money, do it right.

If you want a noticeable single thread perf boost, you need high clocks. The IPC gap between Intel and AMD isn't that big, but the clocks are, and that is a 1:1 perf boost for every mhz you add on top of 4 Ghz Ryzen. That means you stand to gain a good 25-30% from going to 8600K @ 5Ghz. And you don't need a golden CPU, overpriced RAM (well, it all is, but u know) or a pricy motherboard to get it there. Again: selling your Ryzen kit and buying (second hand?) Intel for it should not be a costly sidegrade at all.