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i5-10300H Undervolting, Question

nikola87

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Hi, I have an Omen 15 2020 from last November with i5-10300H and RTX 2060, since I first used it I immediately undervolted because it reached exaggerated temperatures of almost 100 degrees going into thermal throttling and all that.
In recent months, however, I have noticed that even if now from the screenshots I posted everything seems ok, sometimes the cpu behaves in a strange way and even with undervolting it often reaches 90 degrees.

My question is, is it normal that in some moments it reaches 85-90 degrees despite undervolting?
Are there any values or anything else I can adjust to improve temp and performance even more?

Another question I wanted to know what it is actually for if I activate the SpeedShit at 128, actually I had noticed that it keeps the cpu even cooler at 70 degrees, but also a drop in performance in games with intensive use, there is no way to to use the maximum clock only when required by the games while always keeping the SS active?

Thank you all


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I don't know much about laptop overclocking but maybe try changing the thermal paste?
 

unclewebb

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100 degrees
If you buy a laptop and it runs at 100°C, why did you not take it back to the store for a refund when you bought it?

it often reaches 90 degrees
Even with undervolting, this is a normal operating temperature for a modern gaming laptop. No one ever complains so manufacturers think this is OK. Intel has said that any temperature under 100°C is a "safe operating temperature" so no worries. If your room temperature is the same and you laptop temperatures have gone up, it might be time to take it apart, clean it and replace the thermal paste.

ThrottleStop Limit Reasons does not work correctly when you are using HWiNFO64. Use one program or the other to monitor the throttling flags but do not use both programs at the same time. HWiNFO automatically clears the throttling data out of the processor. This prevents Limit Reasons from reading and displaying this data correctly.

Windows 10 sets the Speed Shift EPP variable automatically. Your screenshot shows that Windows has set this to 84. If you move the Windows power slider in the system tray back and forth, you will see the Speed Shift EPP value that the CPU is using change in the FIVR monitoring table. I prefer to let Windows manage this setting. If you check the Speed Shift EPP option on the main screen of ThrottleStop, then you will have a situation where ThrottleStop is writing one value to the EPP register while Windows is writing a different value to the same register. Best to avoid a fight like this.

On your computer, Speed Shift is always active. It is not something that you can turn on and off. A Speed Shift EPP setting of 128 prevents the CPU from reaching maximum performance. It makes sense that a slower computer will run cooler. If you want maximum performance when gaming, move the Windows power slider in the system tray all the way to the right. This should set EPP to 84. On some computers, this might set EPP to 0. Either setting should work well when gaming. EPP = 128 or higher might run cooler but it could also lower your FPS.

sometimes the cpu behaves in a strange way

1616429384115.png


You have a 45W processor that can probably run at 55W but you have software on your computer that is telling your CPU to run at 35W. This can lower temps but it can also lower maximum performance. If you want more performance, use ThrottleStop to increase your power limits and check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box.

Replacing the thermal paste might get you lower temperatures and better performance. For most everything else, if you increase power consumption, this might increase performance but it will definitely increase temperatures.
 
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nikola87

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If you buy a laptop and it runs at 100°C, why did you not take it back to the store for a refund when you bought it?


Even with undervolting, this is a normal operating temperature for a modern gaming laptop. No one ever complains so manufacturers think this is OK. Intel has said that any temperature under 100°C is a "safe operating temperature" so no worries. If your room temperature is the same and you laptop temperatures have gone up, it might be time to take it apart, clean it and replace the thermal paste.

ThrottleStop Limit Reasons does not work correctly when you are using HWiNFO64. Use one program or the other to monitor the throttling flags but do not use both programs at the same time. HWiNFO automatically clears the throttling data out of the processor. This prevents Limit Reasons from reading and displaying this data correctly.

Windows 10 sets the Speed Shift EPP variable automatically. Your screenshot shows that Windows has set this to 84. If you move the Windows power slider in the system tray back and forth, you will see the Speed Shift EPP value that the CPU is using change in the FIVR monitoring table. I prefer to let Windows manage this setting. If you check the Speed Shift EPP option on the main screen of ThrottleStop, then you will have a situation where ThrottleStop is writing one value to the EPP register while Windows is writing a different value to the same register. Best to avoid a fight like this.

On your computer, Speed Shift is always active. It is not something that you can turn on and off. A Speed Shift EPP setting of 128 prevents the CPU from reaching maximum performance. It makes sense that a slower computer will run cooler. If you want maximum performance when gaming, move the Windows power slider in the system tray all the way to the right. This should set EPP to 84. On some computers, this might set EPP to 0. Either setting should work well when gaming. EPP = 128 or higher might run cooler but it could also lower your FPS.



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You have a 45W processor that can probably run at 55W but you have software on your computer that is telling your CPU to run at 35W. This can lower temps but it can also lower maximum performance. If you want more performance, use ThrottleStop to increase your power limits and check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box.

Replacing the thermal paste might get you lower temperatures and better performance. For most everything else, if you increase power consumption, this might increase performance but it will definitely increase temperatures.

Hi, well I think I have specified incorrectly, the temps close to 100 degrees without undervolting clearly reach them only while I play, I am aware of the fact that these cpu can withstand such temperatures, in fact, reached a certain temperature it cools itself by lowering the frequencies of the clocks.

Oh, I didn't know about HWiNFO64 would conflict with TS, I will try not to use it together. Thanks for the advice.

Excellent explanation about Speed Shift I finally understood how it really works.

Well I will tell you that my CPU also got to 69W using Cinebench sometimes, and I noticed that by leaving the Power Limit Control on sometimes at every restart of the laptop it sets the PL1 by itself, for example first it was at 35, then at 45 and also at 55.
During a stress test with Cinebench I noticed that leaving the PL1 value at 45 at one point activates the red PL1 with the word POWER in red next to the temperatures, and by manually setting the value to 55 the red PL1 disappears, so I think it should be the optimal value. ?
My doubt is, should I deactivate the Power Limit Control or leave it at 55 on PL1?

Another thing, as a pre-installed software that controls CPU and GPU I have the Omen Gaming Hub where you can choose the mode between balanced / performance, also adjust the undervolting (but I don't use it from here because it is not reliable) and adjust the speed of the fans (which I never actually use), could it cause some conflict with ThrottleStop if it stays in the background?
 

unclewebb

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Omen Gaming Hub
If the Omen Gaming Hub can control your CPU then it can interfere with ThrottleStop trying to control your CPU. If you do not use the Gaming Hub, why not uninstall it? The turbo power limits at the top of the ThrottleStop TPL window are being constantly monitored. If these values are changing, some software on your computer is changing these power limits. I would use ThrottleStop to set PL1 to at least 60 and I would use the Lock option in ThrottleStop near this setting to prevent any other software from changing this power limit. I would also use the FIVR - Disable and Lock option.

I like a computer that performs consistently. I do not want it to perform great one day or while playing one game and then throttle while doing something else. If some software on your computer is randomly changing the turbo power limit, you are not going to have consistent performance. Lock both of your power limits and prevent these limits from being changed.

the optimal value
The optimum value is one that allows your CPU to run as fast as possible without overheating. You will have to decide what value is best for you and your computer.
 

nikola87

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If the Omen Gaming Hub can control your CPU then it can interfere with ThrottleStop trying to control your CPU. If you do not use the Gaming Hub, why not uninstall it? The turbo power limits at the top of the ThrottleStop TPL window are being constantly monitored. If these values are changing, some software on your computer is changing these power limits. I would use ThrottleStop to set PL1 to at least 60 and I would use the Lock option in ThrottleStop near this setting to prevent any other software from changing this power limit. I would also use the FIVR - Disable and Lock option.

I like a computer that performs consistently. I do not want it to perform great one day or while playing one game and then throttle while doing something else. If some software on your computer is randomly changing the turbo power limit, you are not going to have consistent performance. Lock both of your power limits and prevent these limits from being changed.


The optimum value is one that allows your CPU to run as fast as possible without overheating. You will have to decide what value is best for you and your computer.

Yes you are right, here's what I meant that the cpu behaves weird at times. :D

As far as Omen Gaming Hub is concerned, the only useful function of the software is to change the performance mode of the GPU from 80W to 115W and I don't think there is any other way to do it than by using this software. But since I don't need it for the moment, I can also take it off the Windows autostart to see if I notice any improvements.
And I also noticed that the software needs this service to monitor the CPU, because without it it obviously doesn't work.

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Could this be the cause?

Anyway, thanks for everything for the advice, I will see if I notice improvements and if I will let you know :)
 

unclewebb

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Could this be the cause?
XTU has proven to be unreliable. It is unreliable when Intel XTU uses this service and it is just as unreliable when other apps use this service. How it sets your CPU after you boot up compared to how it sets your CPU after you resume from sleep or hibernate can be completely different. You can never be sure how your CPU is setup. That is why real time power limit monitoring was added at the top of the ThrottleStop TPL window. Best to keep an eye on these other programs. I am not a big fan of XtuService or any apps that use this service.

ThrottleStop runs reliably rain or shine and does not use or need to have XtuService running.

If you use ThrottleStop to Lock your power limits down, you should not have to worry if XtuService is running or not but I would still get rid of it if you do not need it. I like your screenshot. ThrottleStop 1.8 MB and XtuService 56.7 MB. A whole application takes less MB than one service. Bloatware.
 

nikola87

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I did a test with Cinebench and I noticed that after setting the PL1 to 60 and ticking Lock, as well as having also ticked Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits in FIVR, the red PL1 turned on (yellow as soon as I turn on the laptop), what It happens? I tried to raise the value up to 107 but it stays fixed there :confused:

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It is strange now because even putting the PL1 back to 55 or 45 and reactivating the Disable and Lock the situation does not change, it did not happen before.
 
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unclewebb

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It is strange
Some laptops use an embedded controller to enforce a 45W TDP limit. When this happens, any power limit set in ThrottleStop will be ignored.

Unlock the power limits in ThrottleStop, check the Disable Power Limit Control option in the TPL window and shut down your computer. When you boot back up, try doing another Cinebench test. Can you run Cinebench at more than 45W or is there still a hard 45W limit? You might need to use the Omen software to increase both the CPU and GPU power limits. When you adjust the Omen software, watch to see if the power limits displayed at the top of the TPL window change.
 

nikola87

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With Omen software turned off during the Cinebench test after just one minute the PL1 from yellow turns red together with EDP OTHER, and the power drops from 53W to 45W, but as soon as I start Omen Gaming Hub, PL1 it becomes yellow and disappears and increases the power again to 53W.
At this point I believe that if I use the Omen software I will have to do without TS in order not to create unnecessary conflicts, because the value of the CPU's TDP changes even by itself without ThrottleStop, that is, I believe it does everything automatically.
 
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nikola87

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Some laptops use an embedded controller to enforce a 45W TDP limit. When this happens, any power limit set in ThrottleStop will be ignored.

Unlock the power limits in ThrottleStop, check the Disable Power Limit Control option in the TPL window and shut down your computer. When you boot back up, try doing another Cinebench test. Can you run Cinebench at more than 45W or is there still a hard 45W limit? You might need to use the Omen software to increase both the CPU and GPU power limits. When you adjust the Omen software, watch to see if the power limits displayed at the top of the TPL window change.

Ehy unclewebb at this point, since the Omen software is necessary to adjust the CPU power, do I leave the functions of the turbo power limits in ThrottleStop unchanged?
Do you have any suggestions for having optimal values for undervolting on this cpu?
 

AetherZeta

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Tick speed shift and set it to 0. See if that changes anything
 

unclewebb

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You will need to do some testing. I do not own your laptop so I have no idea how ThrottleStop interacts with the Omen software.

Some users with 8th and 9th Gen CPUs have had good results by setting the core offset much higher than the cache offset. Use Cinebench R20 to see if this applies to your 10th Gen CPU. Here are some examples of the improvement.


 

nikola87

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Hi, after many tests I realized that the stable values for the undervolt are -0.125 for core and cache, a higher value becomes unstable in the long run.
The max temperature settles between 80 degrees depending on the game but can also reach 85-90 in intensive CPU games such as COD Warzone.
Do you have any other suggestions on how to improve undervolting or is that okay?
 

unclewebb

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Do you have any other suggestions
No other suggestions are necessary. You have learned how to use ThrottleStop to get the most out of your laptop. I have never used or owned a 10300H processor so I can only make some general suggestions. Your testing has shown how much voltage your CPU needs to run stable. You already know more about your laptop than I will ever know about it.
 

nikola87

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I need help, I don't understand why at any moment the notebook always heats up to 100 degrees while playing COD Warzone, I don't think this is normal now, undervolting is there but it just doesn't seem to work, there is an explanation to this? My laptop is only nearly six months old.
 

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unclewebb

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always heats up to 100 degrees
Mostly bad design. Modern laptops run excessively hot. Poor quality thermal paste or poorly applied paste can degrade quickly.

Did you undervolt both the CPU core and CPU cache? How much? Post a FIVR screenshot if you need help.
 

nikola87

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Mostly bad design. Modern laptops run excessively hot. Poor quality thermal paste or poorly applied paste can degrade quickly.

Did you undervolt both the CPU core and CPU cache? How much? Post a FIVR screenshot if you need help.

Unfortunately it seems to do it with all games, but the strange thing is that until a few weeks ago it wasn't that hot, I don't think the temperature in my room can affect it because it's a period that is still not hot outside.
Yes undervolt set for core and cache applies it but in reality it is as if it is not there because without undervolt it would do these temperatures, is there something that is not making it work?
 

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unclewebb

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Did you replace the thermal paste yet?

The undervolt is working. Your cooling is not great so you will need to slow down your CPU or improve your cooling.
 

nikola87

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Did you replace the thermal paste yet?

The undervolt is working. Your cooling is not great so you will need to slow down your CPU or improve your cooling.
No and I can't do it because I'm not capable of it.

Anyway I just did a test with Cinebench the score is really good, but here the temperatures seem normal?

Actually by activating the Speed Shift to 128 there is a clear improvement of about 10-15 degrees, this is because the cpu does not work at the maximum frequency but is reduced, it would be nice if it used the max frequency only when necessary not thus causing the temperature to rise . Could there be some faulty sensor too?

EDIT: I've been playing for 20 minutes, could you take a look at my log?
 

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unclewebb

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by activating the Speed Shift to 128 there is a clear improvement of about 10-15 degrees
Setting Speed Shift EPP to 128 reduces maximum performance and that helps to reduce temps. That is what your log file shows. Your CPU temperatures are in the low 70°C range.

A lot of people will barely notice any loss in performance when playing a game when the CPU is running a little slower. Many people prefer a slightly slower CPU because it can help reduce the temperatures significantly. It is OK to run your CPU like this. It is your CPU. You can run it however you like.

faulty sensor
Not likely. There are multiple temperature sensors that are all calibrated before Intel ships a CPU. Faulty sensors are rare.
 

nikola87

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Setting Speed Shift EPP to 128 reduces maximum performance and that helps to reduce temps. That is what your log file shows. Your CPU temperatures are in the low 70°C range.

A lot of people will barely notice any loss in performance when playing a game when the CPU is running a little slower. Many people prefer a slightly slower CPU because it can help reduce the temperatures significantly. It is OK to run your CPU like this. It is your CPU. You can run it however you like.


Not likely. There are multiple temperature sensors that are all calibrated before Intel ships a CPU. Faulty sensors are rare.

Speed Shift helps a lot in this case, it is the best solution to give up for only 100-200mhz can make the difference, there are two methods to experiment with SS, the first is done in TPL by setting the SS max to 41 and in the settings by enabling the SS to 0 , but in this way I have maximum performance (with a few mhz less) but since I do not like to always have the PC with the cpu at maximum even when I am not playing, I can only set the SS to 120-125 obtaining a frequency that oscillates between 4.0-4.1GHZ when it is at its maximum
Running a test with Cinebench the scores are quite satisfactory, compared to the stock values, later I will also test in games to see how the performance and temperatures behave.

EDIT:
Another simpler trick without using SS, which I discovered and reduce one core in Turbo ratio limits to 40 in this case I put the 4 core, and the other three to 45, in this way the cpu works at 3990MHz and after a session in gaming with Warzone I gained about 10 degrees less, but it works great even with this frequency, no lag or drop in fps, I am very satisfied with the result I obtained, the undervolt was not always enough, with a small optimization of the cpu yes can make it work great and not throttled.
 

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Chronus

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@nikola87

This ^^^ (ABOVE) actually produced interesting results.

I may not get very high FPS constantly, but they tend to stay around the refresh rate of the monitor (144) with high quality settings often. Best of all, temps dropped 3 to 5 degrees C.

By the way, from the onset, my own 10300H has been "set" with PL1=45 and PL2 =107. While I keep PL1 the same, I lowered PL2 to 88W. I also locked these limits. I see you kept PL2 and raised PL1. That might not help in fighting temps, I'd say.

@unclewebb ,

I have tested and tested for dozens of hours TS settings without HFInfo64 and LR doesn't show up (no throttling, no warnings, nada). So, as I expect no LR warnings, I wonder if HFInfo64 has any issues with it, other than does clearing the Limit Reasons flags?

One last word of advice to people:

ambient temps are rising (Summer time is not far).

After updating my Win10 to 20H2 version (paid up bots post on their blogs that 20H2 has official "no issues"...yeah, right) some stuttering came up in situations when previously nothing of the sort happened. Add to that Nvidia's penchant for screwing up drivers and...

So, managing TS and Afterburner settings is crucial in order to avoid drop in performance AND rising temps at the same time.
 

unclewebb

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LR doesn't show up
Is your CPU running at full speed or is it throttling? Are you using ThrottleStop 9.3? Limit Reasons data was not displayed for the 10th Gen CPUs in previous ThrottleStop versions.

If you have any questions, post some screenshots of ThrottleStop while the CPU is loaded with Limit Reasons open.
 
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