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i7 8700k memory xmp temps

IH_72

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#1
Hi Guys,

I'm upgrading soon to a i7 8700k and I'm looking at what memory to get and I've read that it's best for performance to get 2666mhz minimum or have a drop in fps compared to systems running higher memory.

So if I went with say 2666mhz to get it to run at that I'd enable xmp and what I'd like to know is does it add much to the cpu temp?
I'm going to buy a Noctua nh-d15 but still would like things to be as cool as possible,I'm not going to overclock the cpu yet at least.

Is the gain that much that it's worth the extra temp or doesn't it cause that much of an increase?
 

cadaveca

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#2
At 2666 MHz, it's not going to matter much. Once you get over 3200 MHz -3600 MHz, some boards will push higher VCCSA and VCCIO which can increase temps a little bit, but not that much in the grand scheme of things. If you're worried about it, get a AIO watercooler, and that will definitely not be an issue unless you start OC'ing the CPU itself.
 

IH_72

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#3
At 2666 MHz, it's not going to matter much. Once you get over 3200 MHz -3600 MHz, some boards will push higher VCCSA and VCCIO which can increase temps a little bit, but not that much in the grand scheme of things. If you're worried about it, get a AIO watercooler, and that will definitely not be an issue unless you start OC'ing the CPU itself.
I'm going to get an As Rock extreme 4 ,would you say the sweet spot for small increase in temps/fps gain is 3000mhz? Or go with 2666mhz?

The performance increase seems to change from game to game according to different forums,techpowerups analysis selected games don't show much improvement.
 

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#4
o if I went with say 2666mhz to get it to run at that I'd enable xmp
Umm, i didn't know i have to enable XMP in order my ram runs at it is rated clock speed, some that correct my ignorance?
 

IH_72

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#5
I could well be wrong knoxx,I'm a complete noob at tweaking pc settings etc,apart from a small overclock on my current cpu.

But while researching this I'm sure I read that unless xmp was enabled memory defaulted (at least on the i7 8700k ) to 2133mhz
 

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#6
I'm sure I read that unless xmp was enabled memory defaulted (at least on the i7 8700k ) to 2133mhz
I never payed attention when i installed my ram if it ran at 2133MHz but if i am not mistaken you are right, however one thing i am sure of is that you don't need XMP in order your Ram runs at 2666MHz, my is rated 3000MHZ but it is running at 3300MHZ without XMP enabled
 

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#7
You can manually set the memory speeds instead of using XMP.
 

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#9
The sweet spot price / performance wise has been 3000-3200 ... tho 3000 CAS 15 is about the same as 3200 CAS 16. Most games do not see a lot of difference. Ones I remember seeing huge performance swings with faster memory were the STALKER series and F1. Other this to keep in mind.

1. Ya can't just look at average fps and say "Oh there's no difference. Sometimes te Average fps will be the same but it's thios min fps di[ps that are annoying and often, when the review bothers to look at this, you can see a significant improvement here.

2. Always remember that the system's speed is controlled by what component is the weakest link. For example, you could do a series of tests of 20 games and conclude that there's no significant difference. But then you move from 1440p to 2160p 144 Hz and add that 2nd 1080 Ti... test again, and now you see that the 5 of those games are in fact seeing a fps increse cause it was the card that was bottlenecking the fps. Now that your card is producing 50 - 90% more fps, the memory being able to process faster, can provide more fps. So, like most things PC related, the answer is "it depends"

As for temps, yes it may impact your CPU OC as CPU will get slightly hotter... so best if yu using 2 sticks of 8 GB rathere than 4 x 4 GB situation. If you can't run at XMP speeds at stock CPu settings, they give you a new set. But if OC'd, the higher the OC, likely the more DRAM voltage and CPU voltage will be needed.
 
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cadaveca

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#10
You can manually set the memory speeds instead of using XMP.
which isn't going to change a board adding voltage to vccsa and vccio which can increase reported temperatures....

there are certain kits that have 2666 MHz JEDEC profiling, and these kits, even at 2666 MHz, show an increase to VCCSA and VCCIO voltages (usually 1.1-1.2 V from 0.95 V).


more.png


I'm going to get an As Rock extreme 4 ,would you say the sweet spot for small increase in temps/fps gain is 3000mhz? Or go with 2666mhz?

The performance increase seems to change from game to game according to different forums,techpowerups analysis selected games don't show much improvement.
My own testing showed 3200 MHz with 14-14-14 timings the most optimal, and I had been recommending people buy this memory long before we published the 8700K memory article. You are quite right that 2666 MHz can be more than adequate, and yeah, there are some situations where games see much more benefit that others... which led to my 3200 MHz c14 suggestion. This is fast enough that there seems to be a tangible benefit just in general, while between 3200 and 4000 it generally all feels the same to me. At 4000 I feel another increase. I've posted many memory reviews over the past several months though, so maybe this is a bit of placebo effect, as obviously I am looking for the smallest changes.

Personally, I run 3200 C14.
 
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#11

cadaveca

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#12
XMP enabled and what voltage for VCCIO VCCSA?
depends on which CPU. I run this even with my AMD chips.

For Intel I run 0.95v on VCCSA and 1.0 on VCCIO, boards set a fair bit higher, while I manually enter stock values after a reboot after enabling XMP. What a chip needs will change from CPU to CPU, and this voltage need is actually how I bin my Intel chips as I'm not too concerned with raw CPU speed these days. I do have some CPUs that cannot run 3200 MHz with these voltages, unfortunately, and that is why I genreally do not give voltage recommendations. some need 1.125V on VCCSA and 1.185 on VCCIO.

For AMD chip, I manually set SOC to 1.05V (boards tend to set 1.15-1.2) and do not use XMP and set everything manually.
 

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#13
which isn't going to change a board adding voltage to vccsa and vccio which can increase reported temperatures....
Weird but i don't see any difference in temps when using XMP 0.95v on VCCSA and 1.0 on VCCIO Vs XMP disabled 1.17v on VCCSA and 1.15V on VCCIO:confused:
 

cadaveca

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#14
Weird but i don't see any difference in temps when using XMP 0.95v on VCCSA and 1.0 on VCCIO Vs XMP disabled 1.17v on VCCSA and 1.15V on VCCIO:confused:
push over 3200 MHz and see your board put 1.35V and 1.3V and you'll see the difference. Under 1.2V is not that big of a deal, and is actually rather normal for 2666 MHz automatic settings (so you're still in stock voltage land, sir). It also depends on the loading you put on the CPU. Even the old miser erocker confirmed the temp difference for me, so yeah, have fun. :p
 

IH_72

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#15
So guys for a complete noob what would the best memory be to go for apart from just going with 2133mhz set up without having to tweak voltages etc.I usually have my pc built for me but the guy only applies basic settings.So even if I have 3000mhz memory I think it'll be set to 2133mhz.
 

cadaveca

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#16
So guys for a complete noob what would the best memory be to go for apart from just going with 2133mhz set up without having to tweak voltages etc.I usually have my pc built for me but the guy only applies basic settings.So even if I have 3000mhz memory I think it'll be set to 2133mhz.
Here are a couple of kits that will run 2666 MHz without you having to do anything:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AData/XPG_SPECTRIX_D40/

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Ballistix/Tactical_Tracer_2666/

This kit run 2400 MHz without any intervention, and has two XMP profiles, one for 2666 MHz, and one for 2933 MHz:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Kingston/HyperX_Predator_RGB_DDR4/


Choose one of those kits, don't worry about voltage too much, and enjoy easy increased memory speed without much fuss. I wrote the reviews on these kits and will easily recommend any of them for nearly anyone. Just pick the one that looks best to you and your system and fits your budget.


If you buy a kit and want some help and direction getting it set up properly, or want to play with voltages and learn a bit about memory, I am always willing to help out. Just make a thread and tag me in it, or send me a PM (I prefer a thread anyone can reference), and I will most definitely point you in the right direction and help you get your system running as optimally as possible. Doing this stuff isn't that hard at all, and can pay off, too.
 

IH_72

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#17
Here are a couple of kits that will run 2666 MHz without you having to do anything:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AData/XPG_SPECTRIX_D40/

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Ballistix/Tactical_Tracer_2666/

This kit run 2400 MHz without any intervention, and has two XMP profiles, one for 2666 MHz, and one for 2933 MHz:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Kingston/HyperX_Predator_RGB_DDR4/


Choose one of those kits, don't worry about voltage too much, and enjoy easy increased memory speed without much fuss. I wrote the reviews on these kits and will easily recommend any of them for nearly anyone. Just pick the one that looks best to you and your system and fits your budget.


If you buy a kit and want some help and direction getting it set up properly, or want to play with voltages and learn a bit about memory, I am always willing to help out. Just make a thread and tag me in it, or send me a PM (I prefer a thread anyone can reference), and I will most definitely point you in the right direction and help you get your system running as optimally as possible. Doing this stuff isn't that hard at all, and can pay off, too.
Thank you for this and I might take you up on the offer of help.
It'll be a couple of weeks at least yet though,if I do I'll pm you then start a new thread.

Are the kits you've linked available in low profile? I'll need them as I'm getting a Noctua Nh D15 cooler

Also is this memory ok? This is what I've bought before,well ddr3 anyway :
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/16g...-(2666)-non-ecc-unbuffered-cas-16-18-18-35-xm

or this to go higher:
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/16g...-(3000)-non-ecc-unbuffered-cas-15-17-17-35-xm

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/16g...-(3200)-non-ecc-unbuffered-cas-16-18-18-36-xm

I've noticed the jump in voltage for the second 2 I've linked although the 3200mhz is the same voltage as the 3000mhz
 
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#18
I could well be wrong knoxx,I'm a complete noob at tweaking pc settings etc,apart from a small overclock on my current cpu.

But while researching this I'm sure I read that unless xmp was enabled memory defaulted (at least on the i7 8700k ) to 2133mhz
That's correct. By default the memory is set to 2133mhz.
You can usually adjust the speed under a DRAM Speed option while only changing the speed and leaving the timings on AUTO.
So if you bought a 2666 kit it would be set at 2133 by default after installation, you then go into the BIOS and turn on the XMP or simply select the proper DRAM speed.
 

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#19
push over 3200 MHz and see your board put 1.35V and 1.3V and you'll see the difference. Under 1.2V is not that big of a deal, and is actually rather normal for 2666 MHz automatic settings (so you're still in stock voltage land, sir). It also depends on the loading you put on the CPU.
G Skill Ripjaws 3000MHz Overclocked at 3400MHz 1.344V - VCCSA 1.18V and VCCIO 1.20V XMP profile disabled Ran a few CPU tests to full load the CPU and Ram but honestly didn't notice an increase in temperature, am i maybe doing wrong:confused:

VCCIO.jpg
VCCIO2.PNG
 

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#20
G Skill Ripjaws 3000MHz Overclocked at 3400MHz 1.344V - VCCSA 1.18V and VCCIO 1.20V XMP profile disabled Ran a few CPU tests to full load the CPU and Ram but honestly didn't notice an increase in temperature, am i maybe doing wrong:confused:
1.35V on vccsa and 1.3 on VCCIO? 1.35V on CPU?

what are you using to load the CPU?

Yeah, sorry, you're doing it wrong. Mind you, I wasn't that specific on what voltage went where, either. ROFL.

it's not a large increase...but I don't see any real load being applied in your monitoring screenshot. Trying getting you CPU near 90c. Your cooling maybe be enough that it won't matter; you'll note I suggested get an AIO and not worry about it. Second post in this thread. ;)

for reference:

https://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/781229-Cpu-temp-rises-when-ram-mhz-increases

That guy is seeing a 10c increase (but isn't getting the full story). Do a google search, you'll find that this is common. What CPU is used and what cooling and how hard the CPU is being pushed will affect how much the temperature increases. This isn't exactly rocket science... increase voltage and load, increase temps. You do need to also push your memory hard both in load and frequency. The closer to the limit of your IMC, the higher the temp increase. This is how it has been since we've had VCCSA and VCCIO voltage adjustments.

So, you might ask, how did I come up with those 1.3V and 1.35V values?

look at what this silly ASUS board sets with XMP:

bios_4.jpg



https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/G.SKILL/F4-3600C19D-16GSXK/5.html

That's with 3600 MHz memory. :p 1.4V to VCCSA and 1.35V to VCCIO. But that board is crazy. I wrote the review of it like 4 months ago and W1zz still hasn't posted it because it bashes the board a bit too hard for his liking, I guess. At 3200 MHz, this board set 1.232V for VCCSA, and then you go any higher, and it sets 1.4V. What happened to 1.275V, 1.3V, 1.325V, 1.35V? I dunno. It just jumps up to 1.4 and skips everything in between.


you might also want to try using AIDA64 for voltage monitoring... tehn you don't need to guesswhat voltage is what, because AIDA64 labels it all clearly:

Untitled.jpg
 
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#21
1.35V on vccsa and 1.3 on VCCIO? 1.35V on CPU?

what are you using to load the CPU?

Aida64 Extreme FPU Stress + System Memory Stress

VCCIO3.PNG


you might also want to try using AIDA64 for voltage monitoring...
I did that before you edited your post, wanted to be sure the voltages i was reading were right;)

Trying getting you CPU near 90c. Your cooling maybe be enough that it won't matter
I am sure i have to blame my cooler:p
 
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#22
So glad Dave is here. I had a Rampage V Edition 10 with 6800K and anytime I enabled XMP for the Trident Z 3200Mhz 14 14 14 34 Quad kit my 6800K package temps would rise up to 53C 55C at idle. I sold the board and CPU for that very reason, never did find out what was going on or if the board or 6800K was defective. I did get some help from a pro overclocker and we tweaked for two months with no success. :ohwell:

But 8700Ks and 8086Ks should not have high package temp issues at 3200/14 XMP should they?

I guess it depends on the motherboard. My Apex 10 and 8086K with a high overclock and 3200/14 XMP enabled package temp is nice and low 28C to 32C to 36C depending on the OC selected.

I was wanting to ask Dave when I move to a M11E board next month, will using (4) 3200/14 DIMMs increase my overall responsiveness/lower latency for the build, moving from only (2) 3200/14 DIMMs on the Apex 10 board?

Thanks Dave. :)

I realize my boot time might increase and overclock might suffer a bit moving from Apex to Extreme, but I hope it's not too bad.
 
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#23
depends on which CPU. I run this even with my AMD chips.

For Intel I run 0.95v on VCCSA and 1.0 on VCCIO, boards set a fair bit higher, while I manually enter stock values after a reboot after enabling XMP. What a chip needs will change from CPU to CPU, and this voltage need is actually how I bin my Intel chips as I'm not too concerned with raw CPU speed these days. I do have some CPUs that cannot run 3200 MHz with these voltages, unfortunately, and that is why I genreally do not give voltage recommendations. some need 1.125V on VCCSA and 1.185 on VCCIO.

For AMD chip, I manually set SOC to 1.05V (boards tend to set 1.15-1.2) and do not use XMP and set everything manually.
Similar, I've played with VCCSA and VCCIO as well and the 1.2v (!!) that was set on my board for XMP was really totally overkill.

1.00 ~ 1.05v is easily safe for most boards with a kit of 3000-3200 c15. However that goes for two sticks. Not for four! And I don't have a fantastic 8700K either.
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
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#24
But 8700Ks and 8086Ks should not have high package temp issues at 3200/14 XMP should they?
Nah, should be fine, really. It becomes more of an issue once you're pushing 3866/4000+, and even then, you should have cooling capable of making it a non-issue.

I was wanting to ask Dave when I move to a M11E board next month, will using (4) 3200/14 DIMMs increase my overall responsiveness/lower latency for the build, moving from only (2) 3200/14 DIMMs on the Apex 10 board?
When you start pushing memory benchmarks at the top-end, yeah 4 sticks is definitely faster than two with DDR4. This is well documented over on HWBot. As to newer platforms, perhaps unannounced platforms? I'm not sure. I haven't played with my samples yet enough, and I haven't played with many ASUS boards in quite some time. EVGA is starting to look REALLY REALLY good these days, and MSI is also shaking things up when it comes to memory. Like I said, I don't care too much about CPU speed any more... it is the number of cores, feeding those cores, cache and memory, that I like to spend my time playing with (which has really been the case since day one with me, yet when I got into this CPU performance was a bit lacking, and these days 5 GHz is pretty darn common.)

Anyway, you really want to make sure you buy a 4-stick set and not try to mix kits... Team Group has some 3200/C14 sticks inbound soon, so G.Skill is no longer the only option. The whole reason W1zz had 3200 MHz C14 G.Skill sticks to do that memory performance review was because I sent him that G.Skill kit (and helped arrange samples from Intel). Black Haru will have future board and memory reviews covered (I've stepped back from reviews for a while and am looking at other things here @ TPU) and he's expecting a set of those Team Group sticks to go along with a platform that isn't in the public domain yet. Keep your eyes on the front page. ;)

I am sure i have to blame my cooler:p
I'm not seeing you pulling 150W+ on that chip in your screenshots, so I'm not at all surprised that you are having issues seeing what I am telling you. When you pull that 150W, you're really at the limits of what the stock Intel paste-TIM can handle with most cooling, so any added heat from anything immediately becomes evident. Delidded CPUs can handle more (sometimes 225W or so), and if you aren't at the limits of what the TIM can handle, you'll not see these temperature increases that much. That's what it takes to see what's really going on. If your cooling is more than adequate for your clocks, you'll not run into thermal issues, but when you're at the edge of what your cooling can provide, you really need to spend time optimizing voltages to get the ideal temps and avoid throttle or CPU damage. None of what you're showing here shows that, and then you're asking why you don't see what I'm saying... well no kidding. Yeah, you're doing it wrong. Most users are using very traditional cooling and have load temps well north of 80c, especially with a CPU overclock, and start running into issues with just 130W of power drawn.

I'll set up my soldered 8-core and see how that does with memory this weekend maybe.
 
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System Name Batman's CaseLabs Mercury S8 Work Computer
Processor 8086K 5.4 Cine MT stable 5.5 Cine ST stable 5.6 Win10 boot and Single Core Boost stable
Motherboard Maximus Apex 10/Maximus Extreme 11
Cooling Noctua C14S for all overclocking thus far
Memory Gskill Trident Z 3200Mhz 14latency 8GB (x4Dimms) Quad Kit
Video Card(s) AMD WX 4100 Workstation Card
Storage Intel Optane 32GB module (x2 in RAID0) = 64GB - Moving to Optane 905P 280GB Add In Card
Display(s) Planar 27in 2560x1440 Glossy LG panel with glass bonded to panel for increased clarity
Case CaseLabs Mercury S8 open bench frame two-tone black front cover with gunmetal chassis
Audio Device(s) crummy logitech speakers lol
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 600watt Fanless
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S dark midnight teal blue and Logitech MX Vertical (both wireless)
Keyboard HHKB Professional 2 Silent Type-S white and gray PBT keycaps Topre switches
Software Work Apps text and statistical
Benchmark Scores Cinebench MT 1724 Cinebench ST 236
#25
Thanks so much Dave. Yea. my Trident Z 3200/14 kit is a matched Quad kit already bought and paid for so want to just keep on using it. Love the increased responsiveness the XMP memory overclock adds to my rig while working, it just feels zippier and quicker. Optane helps with low latency high responsiveness also.

The 3 work apps/programs I use all day long, benefit more from higher frequency than High Core Count (HCC). So for now, I'm staying with Intel and the Mainstream/Performance platform...Maximus Series of boards.

I do have two statistical apps that are Multi-threaded and do benefit from more cores, yet I only use them 2 or 3times per month, so for now the Intel mainstream performance platform is my best bet overall.

Tried to assemble the lowest latency components I could find, and so far loving my build for working long hours, superfast, super-responsive and temps are good even with an air cooler, and it's library quiet at all times. (Except when testing new CPU overclocks, I increase the CPU fan speed). :)

I have a second PC for "Everything but Work" gaming etc.

Cannot wait to be able to use ALL FOUR of my Trident Z sticks in the Maximus 11 Extreme, hope I do feel an increase in responsiveness over two sticks in the Apex 10.

Thanks again Dave. :toast:
 
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