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i7-8750H Underperforming and Throttling

pak209

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Hi everyone,
i have bought a MSI Ge75 8se for about 5 months. After 3 months of use and I felt that my device was always running hot (~ 60-65 idle and ~ 90-96 gaming). So I decided to clean, repaste cpu and use throttlestop to undervolt. Then the temperature dropped amazingly (~ 40-45 idle and ~ 55-70 gaming). Until recently, the temperature increased by about 10 when gaming and fps drop when gaming pretty much. I did a bit of throttlestop research and tried some methods but it still didn't seem to get better.

My Cinebench R20 only reaches 2170pts. With Prime95 stress test i think my CPU lower down to 3,3 GHz when cpu reaches above 80 and in TS shows a red "POWER" next to Limits.

Also i want to ask about the maximum wattage i7-8750h. In TS, next to PKG Power, max wattage only shows 35.4W. Is that normal? I thought it suppose to be 45W.
 

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It's the paste you're using. Old generation of pastes have lower max temp and quickly degrade over short period of time (personal experience). Try better paste with higher temp range.
 

pak209

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It's the paste you're using. Old generation of pastes have lower max temp and quickly degrade over short period of time (personal experience). Try better paste with higher temp range.
I am using the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, thought that would be a good choice since my friends recommended me to use that. Can you suggest any good options? I don't really know much about the thermal paste stuff.
 

unclewebb

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The 8750H has a 45W TDP rating but it also has a 35W Configurable TDP-low mode.


It looks like your CPU is getting forced into low power 35W mode. Few manufacturers use this feature but any OEM has the option to use this. In the ThrottleStop TPL window you can try checking the TDP Level Control box. When Cinebench R20 is running, try changing this from 0 to 1 to 2 if those values are supported. The problem is that the TDP Level Control can be set in multiple locations that ThrottleStop does not have access to. Without access to hardware with this issue, I never got around to solving this problem.

Have a look in the Device Manager for the Intel dynamic platform and thermal framework driver. This driver might be forcing your CPU into 35W mode. Do some Google searching about ways to disable and uninstall this driver. There are a few tricks you have to do to prevent this driver from being reinstalled again and again.

Also look into some of the hidden options in the Windows Power Plan you are using. The TDP Level and wattage value can be hiding in there. In a command window use,

powercfg -qh >C:\power.txt

This will create a fill called power.txt and it will be in your main C: directory. Attach it to your next post and I will have a look to see if I can find this setting.

Also try switching to different Windows power profiles while Cinebench is running. Maybe only one power plan is screwed up.

I think HWiNFO can report what TDP Level your CPU is operating in.
 
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I am using the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, thought that would be a good choice since my friends recommended me to use that. Can you suggest any good options? I don't really know much about the thermal paste stuff.
I've tried with MX4, Arctic 5 and others, but the one that fixes my issue was Noctua HT-H2. It has almost twice the upper thermal max work temp than HT-H1. With all the previously mentioned, it was all good the first 4-5 days and then after 10 days up to two weeks all went wrong again with thermal throttling. I know I sound like commercial agent, but this is from my own experience. Apply very thin, evenly spread layer of paste and follow strictly the tightening order. If it doesn't happen from the first try, don't hesitate to make a new attempt.
 

unclewebb

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@AOne - His screenshot shows power limit throttling (PL2) at 35W. His CPU temperature is only 67°C when this happens so this does not appear to be a temperature related issue. There might be a temperature sensor in his laptop that has gone bad that is forcing the CPU into 35W mode but the CPU temperature itself seems to be fine.
 
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"Then the temperature dropped amazingly (~ 40-45 idle and ~ 55-70 gaming). Until recently, the temperature increased by about 10"
I agree with you UnncleWeb, but I was referring to his rise in temp after certain time :)
 

pak209

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The 8750H has a 45W TDP rating but it also has a 35W Configurable TDP-low mode.


It looks like your CPU is getting forced into low power 35W mode. Few manufacturers use this feature but any OEM has the option to use this. In the ThrottleStop TPL window you can try checking the TDP Level Control box. When Cinebench R20 is running, try changing this from 0 to 1 to 2 if those values are supported. The problem is that the TDP Level Control can be set in multiple locations that ThrottleStop does not have access to. Without access to hardware with this issue, I never got around to solving this problem.

Have a look in the Device Manager for the Intel dynamic platform and thermal framework driver. This driver might be forcing your CPU into 35W mode. Do some Google searching about ways to disable and uninstall this driver. There are a few tricks you have to do to prevent this driver from being reinstalled again and again.

Also look into some of the hidden options in the Windows Power Plan you are using. The TDP Level and wattage value can be hiding in there. In a command window use,

powercfg -qh >C:\power.txt

This will create a fill called power.txt and it will be in your main C: directory. Attach it to your next post and I will have a look to see if I can find this setting.

Also try switching to different Windows power profiles while Cinebench is running. Maybe only one power plan is screwed up.

I think HWiNFO can report what TDP Level your CPU is operating in.
Omg Unclewebb i want to say thanks first, because i have read your throttlestop guide(really good guide) and it really helped a beginner like me to understand more about ts and where to start.

I shutdown my laptop for about an hour and when i turn it on, my Max power changes to 39.5W when i open chrome. Unfortunately i didn't see "Intel dynamic platform and thermal framework" in the device manager, but there is an article about disable it through window regestry so i just go for it. Then they also said i need to raise the power limits by uncheck the "Turbo Short Power Max" so i do that too.

I followed ur advice and try to change the TDP Power limit to 0,1,2 and the Cinebench score increase to more than 2600, but somehow 0 has lower score than 1 and 2. The max wattage increase to 70,9W but the still eventually down to 45W. Is it okay to have that high wattage, will it fry my cpu?

Yeah about the power plan i forgot to say that i change the Max processor state to 98% but i still use that plan to test and it is now better.

Idk what to look HWiNFO so i just post it here.
 

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pak209

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I've tried with MX4, Arctic 5 and others, but the one that fixes my issue was Noctua HT-H2. It has almost twice the upper thermal max work temp than HT-H1. With all the previously mentioned, it was all good the first 4-5 days and then after 10 days up to two weeks all went wrong again with thermal throttling. I know I sound like commercial agent, but this is from my own experience. Apply very thin, evenly spread layer of paste and follow strictly the tightening order. If it doesn't happen from the first try, don't hesitate to make a new attempt.
Thanks for your advice. Right now i still have a bit of the old thermal grizzly left so I will try repaste to see if it can come back as good as before. But i'll keep in mine to buy Noctua HT-H2 next time to see the improvement.

How long have u been using the Noctua HT-H2 and how often do u think that the lap should be repaste?
 

unclewebb

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@pak209 - What happened to your other post and pictures? It was here a minute ago but now it is gone.

Edit - They are back!

Setting the maximum processor state to 99% will disable Intel Turbo Boost. Best to avoid internet advice like that. Hopefully your CPU is running at 45W again. This is the default value for this CPU. You are not going to hurt anything by running your CPU at its default values.

Edit - It is not Windows that is screwing you over. You are screwing yourself over! Setting the TDP Level to 1 drops your CPU down to 35W mode. Do not do this if you want maximum performance. Set it to 0 and increase your long turbo power limit above 45W if you are interested in maximum performance.

 
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pak209

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@pak209 - What happened to your other post and pictures? It was here a minute ago but now it is gone.

Edit - They are back!

Setting the maximum processor state to 99% will disable Intel Turbo Boost. Best to avoid internet advice like that. Hopefully your CPU is running at 45W again. This is the default value for this CPU. You are not going to hurt anything by running your CPU at its default values.
So u mean i should setting it back to 100 or leave it like that. Yeah my cpu is now running at 45W, i'm really thankful for your help.

Do you have any recommendations so that the cpu speed always run near the max speed 3,9ghz? Sometimes it went down to under 3,0 while gaming so it's a bit annoying when i see some big fps drops (i'm using 240hz monitor so it can be a bit slutter when it went under 240fps), eventhough my temps are ok about 60-75 and never above 80.


Edit - Oh I thought that 1 was better since the score in cinebench was slightly better than 0, maybe that was inly temporary. I'll change it now back to 0. Thank you for ur help!!
 
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unclewebb

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Set the Maximum processor state back to 100. Do not use ThrottleStop to make random changes.

For many games, 45W might be enough. When fully loaded running Cinebench, try setting both power limits to 60W. Watch for throttling when loaded. Some laptops are unlocked so you can run at well over 45W indefinitely as long as your cooling is good.
 

pak209

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Hello I need advice, I managed to reach this score but not without reaching the thermal and since some got more than 3000pts in cinebench and I can not get to 4.1ghz also.
View attachment 163733
I can reach 2700 but definitely thermal. You can try to increase the Turbo long power max to 70. I read a post that both Turbo long and short power max are 70, and the score is more than 3000.

You can only get to 4,1ghz on single core, with multi core you can only get to 3,9ghz max. I just know that for gaming, more core is better than single core.

Oh btw, i notice that you perhaps haven't turn on ts yet. Maybe that's the problem??
 

Thrasher

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what do you mean turning on ts? sorry i'm new to this.
I can reach 2700 but definitely thermal. You can try to increase the Turbo long power max to 70. I read a post that both Turbo long and short power max are 70, and the score is more than 3000.

You can only get to 4,1ghz on single core, with multi core you can only get to 3,9ghz max. I just know that for gaming, more core is better than single core.

Oh btw, i notice that you perhaps haven't turn on ts yet. Maybe that's the problem??
I managed not to reach those temps just by lifting the notebook a little
Captura de pantalla 2020-07-28 133425.png
 

pak209

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what do you mean turning on ts? sorry i'm new to this.


I managed not to reach those temps just by lifting the notebook a little
View attachment 163747
I mean turn on Throttlestop. There is a button next to "Options". I guess it should be "Turn off" instead of "Turn on". The color of throttlestop icon on the taskbar should be red, green means not active.
 

Thrasher

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I mean turn on Throttlestop. There is a button next to "Options". I guess it should be "Turn off" instead of "Turn on". The color of throttlestop icon on the taskbar should be red, green means not active.
haha, I've been using it for a while and never knew it, thank you very much for something else you notice?
 

pak209

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haha, I've been using it for a while and never knew it, thank you very much for something else you notice?
I'm pretty new too so from my point of view, your setting is pretty good enough. Maybe in the FIVR you can set the CPU core to -250mV and that's all i can notice until now.
Also it's better if you can post ur Throttlestop logs file here so people can have a closer look at how ur cpu was performing.
 

unclewebb

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The Turn On button only controls clock modulation and Set Muliplier, neither of which are being used.

For the 8750H, the max multiplier is 39 39 for 5 or 6 cores active. People that are hitting over 3000 in Cinebench R20 are able to maintain the full 39 multiplier for the entire benchmark. To do this, you need unlocked power limits and adequate cooling so your CPU does not overheat and thermal throttle. That is what is holding you back.

In the Options window, can you adjust the PROCHOT Offset value? Intel default is 0. Some laptops will thermal shutdown at 100C if you set this to 0. Intel default thermal shutdown is 125C, not 100C. Some OEMs are not great at reading Intel's documentation. Allowing the CPU to max out at 100C might be good for a few more Cinebench points.
 
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It's the paste you're using. Old generation of pastes have lower max temp and quickly degrade over short period of time (personal experience). Try better paste with higher temp range.
lol you didn't even read the post
 

unclewebb

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What are you talking about?!?
I was wondering about that too. I had to scroll back 3 weeks to see your post. It seems like you gave some useful advice. Maybe the king of swag did not read your post.
 

Thrasher

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The Turn On button only controls clock modulation and Set Muliplier, neither of which are being used.

For the 8750H, the max multiplier is 39 39 for 5 or 6 cores active. People that are hitting over 3000 in Cinebench R20 are able to maintain the full 39 multiplier for the entire benchmark. To do this, you need unlocked power limits and adequate cooling so your CPU does not overheat and thermal throttle. That is what is holding you back.

In the Options window, can you adjust the PROCHOT Offset value? Intel default is 0. Some laptops will thermal shutdown at 100C if you set this to 0. Intel default thermal shutdown is 125C, not 100C. Some OEMs are not great at reading Intel's documentation. Allowing the CPU to max out at 100C might be good for a few more Cinebench points.
hi thanks, i couldn't do it is here?
Captura de pantalla 2020-07-30 160829.png

psd : reach 2800pts with -250v on fivr, is it dangerous?
 

unclewebb

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The little gold colored icon to the right of the Lock PROCHOT Offset feature means that this register has been locked and cannot be adjusted. It is usually the BIOS that decides to lock this.

reach 2800pts with -250v on fivr, is it dangerous?
Your CPU is either stable or it is not stable. If lowering the voltage increases your Cinebench scores, that sounds like a good thing to me. If your CPU is not stable, it will crash and you can try using a different voltage. If you set the core offset voltage request ridiculously high, the excess part of the request will be ignored by the CPU. Remember. The voltage sliders in ThrottleStop are only sending requests to the CPU. If the CPU does not understand the request, it will ignore what it does not understand. If you set the core offset to -500 mV, the majority of that will be ignored. Setting the core offset to a maximum of about 2X your cache seems to improve temps or performance. Anything beyond that is usually ignored.
 

SmoothOperator

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Is 2795 score on R20 with an MSI GP73 from 2018 (I think?) good? I actually found this app while researching why my core temps were constantly bouncing between 62 and 95 under High GPU load. That was fixed quick with unchecking bd prochot and dropping core/cache -125mv. Temps were super stable after that never getting above 85 with 4400 turbo. Still was only getting 2636 on R20 at that point. Made some random changes in tpl and dropped another -125 on the core and I hit 2795. I have no idea what I’m doing but it seems to work. Any room left for improvement or should I quit while I’m ahead?

Also on a side question not related to the 8750H. I have this laptop hooked up to a CX OLED but apparently g sync is not available through the hdmi port. It’s only available on the display port which is taken by the laptop screen. Is there any way to get around this?
 

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