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(I7-9750H) Plundervolt question and settings in Throttlestop

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Hello everybody

I've been tweaking my I7-9750h on my HP Omen 15 2019 (2070 rtx max-q, 16 gb ram, optane 32 gb +512 m.2 ssd, 144 hz gsync) using answers from several posts around here, that by the way, you guys are very helpful with everybody, I love it.

I have a couple of questions:

1) I read that the microcode named "0xCA" forced into updates is the one that is disabling undervolting, but my laptop seems to still be able to do it? what?
1.1) I'm running the "F.22 Rev A" bios released in december 2019. In the changelog it says "Fix and enhancements: - Provides improved security."
1.2) I'm still not getting the newest bios "F.25" even though I have automatic updates enabled

2) Can you guys give me some suggestions on my settings? I can run cinebench r20 and get 30XX without thermal throttling. I don't aim to get 3200 or anything, only to get the most while staying within cool temperatures. I've attached some screenshots.

Thank you!!
 

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unclewebb

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It looks like your laptop is running great. You do not need our advice. We should be going to you for advice. :D

The ThrottleStop FIVR monitoring table confirms that under volting is still working just fine on your laptop. I would avoid updating the BIOS. Some users have reported some success by undervolting the CPU core more than the CPU cache. Try leaving the cache at -125 mV and change the core to -150 mV, -175 mV or -200 mV. Run Cinebench and see if there is any improvement in power consumption or CPU temperatures.

A 9750H that can maintain the full 40.00 multiplier while running Cinebench R20 is as good as it gets. You could try bumping up your long turbo power limit to 80W and maybe bump the short limit up to 90W. The amount of throttling during Cinebench looks to be next to nothing so higher power limits will probably not make a huge difference.

Thanks for the pics.
 
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Those results seem great. My 9750H scores around 2800-2900.
 
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Thank you guys for your answers. I think I'll settle then with these settings and disable automatic updates.

I will try those settings (increasing short and long power) that unclewebb recommended, but I remember that I once tried going -140 at the core and it crashed, also I noted diminishing returns in terms of clock speed, not entirely sure because once it froze I panicked and never tried beyond -125.

By the way if it helps someone else:

I use the omen command center in performance mode because it raises the power limit to the gpu from 80w to 90w. That is the only reason to keep using that bloatware.
If you uninstall OCC this will happen (applies "default" profile):

1) CPU PL1 = 45w
1.1) CPU PL2 = can't remember, almost sure it locks too at 45w
2) GPU PL = 80w

Hello again!

I tried the following:

  • Long power 80w
  • Short power 90w
  • UV: -125 core -125 cache
  • Outcome: almost instantly dropped into PL1 45w plus throttling, I guess this is enforced by bios?

Went back to 75w long & 80w short, and applied uv only to the core -150.4

  • Outcome: averaging 84-85°C in package instead of 90°C during Cinebench test (my initial screenshots), now all the readings were at 4000 not 3989-3999... and got 3116 best score yay!
  • I noticed that this laptop could pull 77.5w maximum during this tests while oscillating between 76 and 77.5 almost sustained with some yellow PL2 alerts that disappeared instantly and no thermal throttling at all
So as a final test, after that I tried uv to -170 mV but the max wattage got reduced to around 73.5 :(

I'm quite happy with the results :D

As a final note (if nothing new arises), and if somebody else stumbles with this thread, I now remember why it crashed/froze that time that I panicked: I applied around -140 uv to the cache at the same time as the core.
 

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unclewebb

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So as a final test, after that I tried uv to -170 mV but the max wattage got reduced to around 73.5 :(
As long as your CPU is running at full speed, less power consumption is a good thing. That also helps reduce heat. Why the sad face? This is why people like under volting the CPU core more than the CPU cache.
 
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As long as your CPU is running at full speed, less power consumption is a good thing. That also helps reduce heat. Why the sad face? This is why people like under volting the CPU core more than the CPU cache.
You were absolutely right. now I went full -200 mV (keeping 75w long & 80 short. EDIT: also tried 80w & 90w same results with no PL drop to 45w) on the core and got:

average temp: package 80°C
clocks: 4000
power: 68w sustained
limits: not even yellow edp other in ring, the panel was clear during the test
score: 3096 (I guess this is never a constant between reruns, or I did something wrong, or windows was running something in the background)


Edit:

now went -250 mV core (80w long & 90w short) and got

Score: 3104,
multiplier: 40
Power: 63-64.5w
limits: same as before, nothing
Average package temp:76-77°C

Honestly I don't know why the variance between scores, but the fact remains: lower voltage -> same clocks -> lower temps

:D :D :D :D
 

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unclewebb

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Happy faces are what I like to see. :D

Some users run Cinebench at a higher Windows priority to squeak out a few more benchmark points. There is always going to be some variation from one run to the next. If you look at some laptop reviews at NotebookCheck, some laptops drop hundreds of points after the first run. That is why they like to run Cinebench in a loop which better shows how a laptop performs long term.

Thanks for confirming that lowering the CPU core voltage more than the CPU cache voltage really does reduce power consumption and heat. That makes you wonder why Intel XTU does not allow a user to do this.

limits: not even yellow edp other in ring, the panel was clear during the test
The holy grail. A 9750H that can run Cinebench R20 without a hint of throttling.
Some laptops with this same CPU are limited by the BIOS to a maximum of 45W. The result is continuous throttling during Cinebench. Not good.
 

Ender

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Hi!
I am reading this and i am baffled :)
@duskw4lker
I did not understand what you did to reach that high Wattage, whatever i do, my wattage always starts at about 65W and then slowly goes down to about 45W. How on Earth did you get sustained > 60W ?
My clock speeds stay at about 3700 after a while if i use your screenshot valius.
I can go down to -0.150 V for core & cache but that does not change much.

Do i need to install ALienware crap or not, i did not get that ?
I am on Bios 1.11 (downgraded after undervolting went POOF) and have windows power settings to "max performance".
What am i missing?

Thanks in any case for the great parameters :)
Ender


P.S: i just reread the 10'th time, may it be my Bios that also clamps down power max? Its a Dell G5 5590
 
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Hi!
I am reading this and i am baffled :)
@duskw4lker
I did not understand what you did to reach that high Wattage, whatever i do, my wattage always starts at about 65W and then slowly goes down to about 45W. How on Earth did you get sustained > 60W ?
My clock speeds stay at about 3700 after a while if i use your screenshot valius.
I can go down to -0.150 V for core & cache but that does not change much.

Do i need to install ALienware crap or not, i did not get that ?
I am on Bios 1.11 (downgraded after undervolting went POOF) and have windows power settings to "max performance".
What am i missing?

Thanks in any case for the great parameters :)
Ender


P.S: i just reread the 10'th time, may it be my Bios that also clamps down power max? Its a Dell G5 5590
Hello!

I've no idea how this would work with an Alienware. At least with this Omen 15 it still works as I showed before.

Here are the same settings that I've been using since the last and final benchmark/modifications

:D
 

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Ender

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Hi!
Thanks, of course you have a Golden CPU able to be UV -0,250 :)
And i guess the power limit is a matter of the Bios which is different here of course.
I guess i have to live with my ~3000 Cinebench...

I noticed you unchecked Speedstep at startup, would you care to share why?

Thanks for the response!

Ender
 
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Hi!
Thanks, of course you have a Golden CPU able to be UV -0,250 :)
And i guess the power limit is a matter of the Bios which is different here of course.
I guess i have to live with my ~3000 Cinebench...

I noticed you unchecked Speedstep at startup, would you care to share why?

Thanks for the response!

Ender
Because the windows power slider at "best performance" does the same thing. you can check if windows is using speedstep with a value of 0 in the FIVR window. If it doesn't, then use the speedstep with throttlestop :)

Edit: I meant Speed Shift. you mean Speed Shift right?. AFAIK Speedstep is not used anymore because Speed Shift replaces it
 

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Hi!
I am reading this and i am baffled :)
@duskw4lker
I did not understand what you did to reach that high Wattage, whatever i do, my wattage always starts at about 65W and then slowly goes down to about 45W. How on Earth did you get sustained > 60W ?
My clock speeds stay at about 3700 after a while if i use your screenshot valius.
I can go down to -0.150 V for core & cache but that does not change much.

Do i need to install ALienware crap or not, i did not get that ?
I am on Bios 1.11 (downgraded after undervolting went POOF) and have windows power settings to "max performance".
What am i missing?

Thanks in any case for the great parameters :)
Ender


P.S: i just reread the 10'th time, may it be my Bios that also clamps down power max? Its a Dell G5 5590
Hi,
until a month ago I had a G7 7790, which I think is quite similar to your G5.
Choosing Performance in the Power Profiles I had PL2 of 90W and PL1 of 60W, which is perfect.
Try to do that.

I removed Alienware crapware from the notebook and installed ThrottleStop and MSI Afterburner. That's all you need.
-125 mV core and cache is just fine: you could try even more for the core, but it doesn't change much.
 

Ender

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Hi,
until a month ago I had a G7 7790, which I think is quite similar to your G5.
Choosing Performance in the Power Profiles I had PL2 of 90W and PL1 of 60W, which is perfect.
Try to do that.

I removed Alienware crapware from the notebook and installed ThrottleStop and MSI Afterburner. That's all you need.
-125 mV core and cache is just fine: you could try even more for the core, but it doesn't change much.
YEs, i just have done removing the crap and i switched to power mode, thanks!
It seems its stable with cache to -150mV, core to -160mV and all else to -60mV
Stable 2900 at conebench, was able to get just 3007 but instable

GREAT, thanks to you all helping a noob!
 
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YEs, i just have done removing the crap and i switched to power mode, thanks!
It seems its stable with cache to -150mV, core to -160mV and all else to -60mV
Stable 2900 at conebench, was able to get just 3007 but instable

GREAT, thanks to you all helping a noob!

have you tried setting -125 to the cache and going lower only with the core voltage? Maybe you are cutting too much power to the cache
 
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YEs, i just have done removing the crap and i switched to power mode, thanks!
It seems its stable with cache to -150mV, core to -160mV and all else to -60mV
Stable 2900 at conebench, was able to get just 3007 but instable

GREAT, thanks to you all helping a noob!
For me cache max is about this. This is my stable settings. But even I try to get max from the cinebench score all that I get was 3159, not worth trying. And I can go lower with core but It doesnt help with scores anymore.

But I think its ok to say that just but everything -125mw :D Ofc you can hunt best scores but you will always go back somewhere close to that.

-----

Just run the test with posted settings again.
 

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Ender

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Hi all!
Another noob-success story!
After i got great advice here i also realized that i need to add a heatsink to my 2GB SSD as it throttles because of Overheating as well from time to time.
So as i had to open my G5 anyways i decided to order "Kryonaut" thermal paste and repaste my CPU/GPU Cooler.

Apart from my SSD not throttling anymore that was GREAT, the (probably bad) original paste was applied very bad.
I DID clean the fans now and then so thats not a big added effect but after i repasted my Cinebnch went up from stable 2800 to 3050 (3040 - 2070) as the CPU never went > 80° and kept x40 all the time.
That is GREAT, so undervolting + repasting + cleaning the fans although they were pretty okay was the winner for me :)

Ender
 

alkattaf

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Thanks for ur order and results ,
I have same ur laprop and exactly ,

soo i should goo with whitch setting fo best performance and cooling stable ?
 

Ender

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Thanks for ur order and results ,
I have same ur laprop and exactly ,

soo i should goo with whitch setting fo best performance and cooling stable ?
Hi!
The values that are best for you will not be exactly the same as for me or others. THose CPU's are fifferent :)
But if you look at above screenshots you can see which values to change. Start conservative and do intense stability tests, NOT only under high load but also under idle or medium load as that sometimes produces a crash even if full power is fine. Also test together with GPU stress test as this drastically changes the temerature level of the whole system.

Greetings,

Ender
 
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As a PSA for current or future viewers that own this laptop DH0005LA or a variant of it (september 2020):

After months of stopping windows updates with Sledgehammer, yesterday I updated to windows 2004, all of the drivers, omen command center and its framework, and the bios to the latest F32 Rev.A using both windows update and HP support assistant to this process, because who knows why they split the delivery of drivers, some are given by WU, others only with that bloatware.

- Microcode "updated" to 0xD2
- Undervolting is OK, also HP allows us to disable SGX in the bios
- CB benchmarks remain the same 3070-3111. But now I tried CB with high priority because why not and got 3145 and no crashes
- Power readings are now accurate, in my previous posts my power readings were miraculously low (64-65w). Now under full load this unit pulls 70w during Cinebench. Temperatures remain the same, cool as a cucumber while having a reasonable session of tanning: 75-80° package temp - no limit reasons, clear panel during bench.

I still don't trust Microsoft, but at least HP didn't jump in the plundervolt train with the Omen 2019 line
 

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Hamsert

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Thank you guys for your answers. I think I'll settle then with these settings and disable automatic updates.

I will try those settings (increasing short and long power) that unclewebb recommended, but I remember that I once tried going -140 at the core and it crashed, also I noted diminishing returns in terms of clock speed, not entirely sure because once it froze I panicked and never tried beyond -125.

By the way if it helps someone else:

I use the omen command center in performance mode because it raises the power limit to the gpu from 80w to 90w. That is the only reason to keep using that bloatware.
If you uninstall OCC this will happen (applies "default" profile):

1) CPU PL1 = 45w
1.1) CPU PL2 = can't remember, almost sure it locks too at 45w
2) GPU PL = 80w

Hello again!

I tried the following:

  • Long power 80w
  • Short power 90w
  • UV: -125 core -125 cache
  • Outcome: almost instantly dropped into PL1 45w plus throttling, I guess this is enforced by bios?

Went back to 75w long & 80w short, and applied uv only to the core -150.4

  • Outcome: averaging 84-85°C in package instead of 90°C during Cinebench test (my initial screenshots), now all the readings were at 4000 not 3989-3999... and got 3116 best score yay!
  • I noticed that this laptop could pull 77.5w maximum during this tests while oscillating between 76 and 77.5 almost sustained with some yellow PL2 alerts that disappeared instantly and no thermal throttling at all
So as a final test, after that I tried uv to -170 mV but the max wattage got reduced to around 73.5 :(

I'm quite happy with the results :D

As a final note (if nothing new arises), and if somebody else stumbles with this thread, I now remember why it crashed/froze that time that I panicked: I applied around -140 uv to the cache at the same time as the core.
Hi,

I have an OMEN 17-cb0220ng and no matter what I configure in Throttlestop, it will always PL1 after a short time in Cinebench. How did you get rid of your PL1 throttling?
I set Turbo Boost Long Power Max to 100 with Clamp disabled and disabled and locked Turbo Power Limits still get get PL1.
HWinfo shows that the limits are unlocked but I think they might be locked somewhere regardless?

Thanks for your assistance.
 
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Hi,

I have an OMEN 17-cb0220ng and no matter what I configure in Throttlestop, it will always PL1 after a short time in Cinebench. How did you get rid of your PL1 throttling?
I set Turbo Boost Long Power Max to 100 with Clamp disabled and disabled and locked Turbo Power Limits still get get PL1.
HWinfo shows that the limits are unlocked but I think they might be locked somewhere regardless?

Thanks for your assistance.
Hello!

there's something that you should know first:

Turbo boost long/short power limit is a value that behaves as a ... limit :D, is not a constant. So, you can set any of those two to a really high value, but your CPU will think "ok I've got XX watts of power allowance, but I only need YY to this or these tasks, thanks but i dont need that much"


I remember what happened in the post that you quoted, I did several tests (with some aggressive UV thrown into the mix) and finally hit a PL1 with -0.125 mv on both CPU core and CPU cache with 80w PL1 and 90w PL2, but I forgot to reboot in between tests and LOTS of changes in the undervolt, so "something" happened there, maybe the omen command center wasn't too happy with me messing around with the control of the cpu, because the profiles in the OCC do the same as throttlestop in terms of changing the power limits. And OCC keeps running always in the background, but, if you use disable and lock turbo power limits in TS, OCC loses control over both power limits (and that is a good thing, because OCC sucks)


long story short: I suggest you to set OCC's profile to performance mode (mainly for GPU power limit and fan curve reasons), always reboot during a long period of experimentation. Disabling clamp and locked turbo power limits are OK and don't go too crazy on the UV, go with something like -0.200 mv for the core and -0.125 mv for the cache

all of this is said considering that you are not using intel extreme-utility-thingy at the same time to change your settings. because that would be quite a mess for your cpu being told by throttlestop, OCC and the Intel utility how to behave.
 

Hamsert

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Hello!

there's something that you should know first:

Turbo boost long/short power limit is a value that behaves as a ... limit :D, is not a constant. So, you can set any of those two to a really high value, but your CPU will think "ok I've got XX watts of power allowance, but I only need YY to this or these tasks, thanks but i dont need that much"
Yes I know that, it was using about 53 W before it throttled down to 45 after probably the 28 seconds. I also only get about 2680-2700 in Cinebench so nothing comparable to your results.

I remember what happened in the post that you quoted, I did several tests (with some aggressive UV thrown into the mix) and finally hit a PL1 with -0.125 mv on both CPU core and CPU cache with 80w PL1 and 90w PL2, but I forgot to reboot in between tests and LOTS of changes in the undervolt, so "something" happened there, maybe the omen command center wasn't too happy with me messing around with the control of the cpu, because the profiles in the OCC do the same as throttlestop in terms of changing the power limits. And OCC keeps running always in the background, but, if you use disable and lock turbo power limits in TS, OCC loses control over both power limits (and that is a good thing, because OCC sucks)
Yeah I disabled and locked power limits and still got no luck.
I undervolted to - 140 cache and -275 core. Still figuring out core value, 280 crashed today. 140 cache has been stable for a while for me.

long story short: I suggest you to set OCC's profile to performance mode (mainly for GPU power limit and fan curve reasons), always reboot during a long period of experimentation. Disabling clamp and locked turbo power limits are OK and don't go too crazy on the UV, go with something like -0.200 mv for the core and -0.125 mv for the cache
I feel like OCC performance is pretty noisy and I never felt the GPU is the bottleneck. I will try your exact configuration and head back and post my results.

all of this is said considering that you are not using intel extreme-utility-thingy at the same time to change your settings. because that would be quite a mess for your cpu being told by throttlestop, OCC and the Intel utility how to behave.
No I'm not using anything else.
 
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Yes I know that, it was using about 53 W before it throttled down to 45 after probably the 28 seconds. I also only get about 2680-2700 in Cinebench so nothing comparable to your results.



Yeah I disabled and locked power limits and still got no luck.
I undervolted to - 140 cache and -275 core. Still figuring out core value, 280 crashed today. 140 cache has been stable for a while for me.



I feel like OCC performance is pretty noisy and I never felt the GPU is the bottleneck. I will try your exact configuration and head back and post my results.



No I'm not using anything else.
you are asking OCC to use default or comfort profiles while raising the power limits 1 and 2 and at the same time restricting the voltage. maybe that's the problem.

Afaik and tested, the default profile is limited to 45w so, even if you use disable and lock turbo power limits and OCC loses control over both power limits, OCC is still sadly in some control over the CPU and the fans, and it will not be cooperative with an aggressive undervolting, while at the same time raising wattage limits because that software is hardcoded to fall back into lower wattage (hitting PL1) and lower fan speed under those profiles.

performance mode is not restricted to a power limit per se, you can remove the cap and set your PL's with TS, but that is not the case with default and comfort profiles, even if you set disable and lock turbo power limits in TS. OCC is always in some degree of control over the CPU, because those two profiles are meant to keep the laptop cool and quiet, and as a result underperforming.

Regarding the GPU power limit, what I meant is that OCC in performance mode raises the PL for your GPU (from 80w to 90w for my rtx 2070 max-q), so you will only lose performance if you use default or comfort profiles. And the noise that you complain will never be lowered in performance mode, because that's the nature of having a laptop when you ask it for more computing power. if you want cool and quiet, stay with comfort or default.

Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but those observations are the result of using this laptop for over a year.

In the end, the best results are the ones that you can come up through testing and observation.
 

Hamsert

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Sep 27, 2020
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Ok some good and some bad news:
I changed OCC to performance mode and rebooted and afterwards there was no more pl1 throttling during Cinebench 20. I also reached 2986 points.
BUT my CPU was thermal throttling basically from the beginning till end and stayed at 97 degrees all the time. I will post my setup, maybe you can see why this happens?
My Laptop is on a stand so there is air circulation etc.
 

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