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I7 9750H - RTX 2070 MaxQ HP Omen 15 - Undervolting Issue

Markds

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Joined
Aug 20, 2020
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Hi all!

I would be really happy if I could have your help here. I own the aforementioned laptop, and I want to undervolt it to avoid reaching 90-100°C on my CPU. It was not a long time since I've found ThrottleStop and start playing with it. But after trying to understand how it works and why my PC behaves the way it does (I want to say that I've found unclewebb's comments extremely helpful though), I can't seem to finally solve my issues.

1) Just after opening ThrottleStop, on one hand I've found that "EPD other" is constantly yellow, even on idle.
2) I've tried with the following settings: Speed shift checked (value=zero), BD PROCHOT checked, CPU Core -125mV, CPU Cache -80mV. But I keep getting errors while running TS bench at 768M as shown in the attached image below.

Can someone please help me get through the benchmark test without errors, and maybe trying to understand why EPD other is always yellow on idle?

Thank you very much in advance! Looking forward to your response,

UV Set 1 Cache.pngUV Set 1 Core.pngUV Set 1 IDLE.pngUV Set 1 Limits.pngUV Set 1 Ts Bench 768M.png
 

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
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1) EDP OTHER under the RING column tends to be hyper sensitive. Seeing it in yellow is not unusual and it is not important. When you see items in red under the CORE column, that is important. When PL1 or PL2 or THERMAL goes red under the CORE column, EDP OTHER under the RING column will also go red at the exact same time. In this situation, ignore the RING column and concentrate on the CORE column.

But I keep getting errors while running TS bench
Is the TS Bench reporting errors? If your undervolt is not stable, the TS Bench will show how many errors it has found. At the top of the TS Bench where it reports how much time it took the benchmark to complete, if that shows a number like 5 Errors, that is a problem. That means your CPU core or cache or both need some more voltage.

If ThrottleStop is not reporting errors in the TS Bench test and your games are not crashing then you can probably undervolt your CPU a little more.

Boxes lighting up in red in Limit Reasons are not errors. These are just reasons why your CPU is slowing down and throttling. If your CPU reaches one of the turbo power limits, it will be forced to slow down so your CPU does not exceed the turbo power limits.

The HP Omen 15 has barely adequate cooling. It is not unusual for these laptops to run at over 90°C, especially when gaming. You and I might think this is too hot but Intel says that any temperature under 100°C is a normal operating temperature. No need to worry until your CPU starts going over 100°C. That is never going to happen because HP has set the thermal throttling temperature to 97°C. This helps keep the CPU always on the safe side of 100°C.

In the TPL window you have the long term turbo power limit set to 45W. This will help keep your temps down but it will also interfere with maximum performance. I would bump that up to 60W if your cooling is OK. In the FIVR window I would check the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box.

Some HP laptops set power limits internally that cannot be increased using ThrottleStop. You might be running into that problem already. Run a ThrottleStop log file while gaming. It shows a lot more info than a handful of screenshots.
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
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System Name Hp Omen 15 2019
Processor i7-9750H
Motherboard Intel Cannon Point HM370, Intel Coffee Lake-H
Cooling HP THERMAL MODULE N18E G2
Memory SK hynix HMA81GS6JJR8N-VK x2
Video Card(s) nVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Max-Q Design (HP)
Storage Intel Optane H10
Display(s) AUO82ED
Audio Device(s) SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E10)
Power Supply 200w
Hello @Markds

Take a look over there


My Omen 15 is DH0005LA, maybe we share the same motherboard (and the whole rest of the laptop) so you might get the same results. I've been running the "final" settings for months without problems so far.

Do not take those settings and copy them, but take a look at process to get the results and maybe you will achieve the same with different or similar parameters.

Please consider that my settings might only work for me because of manufacturing and silicon lottery, and the "bestsettingseverzomg™" as it is always asked are the ones that you are able to come up yourself by testing, tweaking and asking for help.
 

Markds

New Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
4 (0.04/day)
Hello @Markds

Take a look over there


My Omen 15 is DH0005LA, maybe we share the same motherboard (and the whole rest of the laptop) so you might get the same results. I've been running the "final" settings for months without problems so far.

Do not take those settings and copy them, but take a look at process to get the results and maybe you will achieve the same with different or similar parameters.

Please consider that my settings might only work for me because of manufacturing and silicon lottery, and the "bestsettingseverzomg™" as it is always asked are the ones that you are able to come up yourself by testing, tweaking and asking for help.
Thank you very much!! I'll use this info to try find what's best for me. I'll surely get back here with news to keep you posted.

1) EDP OTHER under the RING column tends to be hyper sensitive. Seeing it in yellow is not unusual and it is not important. When you see items in red under the CORE column, that is important. When PL1 or PL2 or THERMAL goes red under the CORE column, EDP OTHER under the RING column will also go red at the exact same time. In this situation, ignore the RING column and concentrate on the CORE column.


Is the TS Bench reporting errors? If your undervolt is not stable, the TS Bench will show how many errors it has found. At the top of the TS Bench where it reports how much time it took the benchmark to complete, if that shows a number like 5 Errors, that is a problem. That means your CPU core or cache or both need some more voltage.

If ThrottleStop is not reporting errors in the TS Bench test and your games are not crashing then you can probably undervolt your CPU a little more.

Boxes lighting up in red in Limit Reasons are not errors. These are just reasons why your CPU is slowing down and throttling. If your CPU reaches one of the turbo power limits, it will be forced to slow down so your CPU does not exceed the turbo power limits.

The HP Omen 15 has barely adequate cooling. It is not unusual for these laptops to run at over 90°C, especially when gaming. You and I might think this is too hot but Intel says that any temperature under 100°C is a normal operating temperature. No need to worry until your CPU starts going over 100°C. That is never going to happen because HP has set the thermal throttling temperature to 97°C. This helps keep the CPU always on the safe side of 100°C.

In the TPL window you have the long term turbo power limit set to 45W. This will help keep your temps down but it will also interfere with maximum performance. I would bump that up to 60W if your cooling is OK. In the FIVR window I would check the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box.

Some HP laptops set power limits internally that cannot be increased using ThrottleStop. You might be running into that problem already. Run a ThrottleStop log file while gaming. It shows a lot more info than a handful of screenshots.
Ok guys, I've taken both your advices and tried to understand this whole thing a bit better. I managed to keep undervolting core as far as I could without getting any errors while running ts bench, and kept the lowest cache value I could without my PC crashing. I also modified limits as you told me I should, and also changed the PP0 Current Limit to 160. I really don't know what this value modifies, but I noted certain differences that probably lowered the highest temperature a couple degrees?

As I mentioned, I didn't notice any error while running ts bench (size 768M), but my temperatures are still wat too high for what I think they should be. Even though Intel affirms the CPU is ready to function up to 100°C, I would be so much happier if I could run it at least at 85°C tops.

On the other hand, I managed to go as low as 315 mV for the core, is that normal? Should I go any lower since I still haven't noticed anything wrong?

P.S.: I also ran a log file while gaming as suggested which I'll attach to this post.

I appreciate your help very much! :)

UV Set 2 Cache.pngUV Set 2 After Gaming.pngUV Set 2 Core.pngUV Set 2 Limits.png
 

Attachments

Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
23 (0.11/day)
System Name Hp Omen 15 2019
Processor i7-9750H
Motherboard Intel Cannon Point HM370, Intel Coffee Lake-H
Cooling HP THERMAL MODULE N18E G2
Memory SK hynix HMA81GS6JJR8N-VK x2
Video Card(s) nVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Max-Q Design (HP)
Storage Intel Optane H10
Display(s) AUO82ED
Audio Device(s) SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E10)
Power Supply 200w
As I mentioned, I didn't notice any error while running ts bench (size 768M), but my temperatures are still wat too high for what I think they should be. Even though Intel affirms the CPU is ready to function up to 100°C, I would be so much happier if I could run it at least at 85°C tops.

On the other hand, I managed to go as low as 315 mV for the core, is that normal? Should I go any lower since I still haven't noticed anything wrong?
Max temps will always spike to a certain point until the fans kick in (btw always use performance mode in omen command center), in my opinion you should not worry about max, but average temperature under load. you can change the Prochot offset to 99° or 100° if you want to follow intel Tjmax and squeeze those degrees before throttling. HP set it to 97° because of reasons.

You can set the offset as low as you want but there is a point where the CPU will ignore your requests. Many users find after a lot of testing that an offset of -0.200 mv for Core and -0.125 for Cache yield good performance. Going beyond that, specially with the Cache will often end with your system hanging and crashing.
 

unclewebb

RealTemp Author
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Jun 1, 2008
Messages
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It seems that the maximum core offset has to be between a 1:1 ratio with the cache offset and a 2:1 ratio with the cache offset. If cache is offset to -100 mV then the core needs to be between -100 mV and -200 mV. Going beyond -200 mV will be ignored.

Use Cinebench R20 when testing. It uses the AVX instructions and will show an improvement in temperatures or scores when setting the offset voltages to different values.

run it at least at 85°C tops
That is like saying the speed limit is 55 mph but you are going to keep it at a maximum of 40 mph just to be safe. There is no need to do this. Intel CPUs can safely run at up to 100°C. Intel has been setting the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the vast majority of their processors built during the last 12 years. If this was a problem, they would have fixed it. Your screenshot shows that the manufacturer of your laptop has set the PROCHOT temperature to 97°C so it will be extra safe. There is no need to worry about your CPU temperature.

Your log file shows your CPU is running great. Temps are great and the CPU is running with a steady 40 multiplier. No throttling and no problems.
 

Markds

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Messages
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Thank you very much for your support!! I'm happier now that I have your opinion based on all your expertise! :) I will try to learn more about this since it is very interesting indeed! Have a great day!
 

Markds

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Hello everyone, sadly I'm back here again :( After trying the latest settings, I turned on my pc and it went over 90°C degrees again, throttling all over the way, and wasn't able to keep the 40x multi anymore :( Since then, I've been trying to get the last results I showed here but with no good results. I even tried undervolting using XTU, but when I tried the same settings I had in ThrottleStop, my PC crashed. It feels as if whatever I touch in ThrottleStop, doesn't make any difference in my computer, or more specifically, it feels erratic. Sometimes it works, but other times it doesn't, and I can't figure out why. I've tried once more tweaking the voltages and the same things I did the last time, and ran a log which I'm attaching. My temperatures were not thah bad, I'm comfortable with them, but new lines that mark "POWER STATUS CHANGE" showed up, could someone tell me what that is? I assume it's not normal, but I don't know why it showed up.

Thank you very much in advance once again!
 

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unclewebb

RealTemp Author
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Jun 1, 2008
Messages
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POWER STATUS CHANGE will show up in the log file when you plug in or unplug your laptop. It is usually not a good sign if this starts randomly showing up in the log file. It might be a loose power cable or problems with the battery or power adapter.

The first log file you posted showed consistent CPU performance when lightly loaded. The log file above shows lots of power limit throttling (PL1). Power consumption when this happens is right at 45W. The 9750H has a 45W TDP rating and it looks like the manufacturer of your device has decided to enforce that power limit. Nothing you can do about this. I would shop elsewhere next time. I hate being restricted like that.

XTU will not do you any favors. You can never be sure when the settings it shows you are being correctly and consistently applied to the CPU or not.

Do you have any other software running on your computer that might be interfering with the turbo power limits? Some fan control software or software that lets use a quiet mode can cause problems. The cool and quiet mode might reduce the power limits so your laptop runs cool. Less performance but cool.

Your laptop cooling cannot keep your CPU cool at 65W. Pointless to have your short power limit higher than this.
 
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