• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel 7nm CPUs Delayed by a Year, Alder Lake in 2H-2021, Other Commentary from Intel Management

Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
164 (0.05/day)
Where does every one get this?
Far as I know this just what intel claims and there is no actual proof

There density comes from having several different designs for caches L1 caches transistors are different from L2 and so is it's L3 it's all for space saving.

AMD an other manufacturers use a more uniformed transistor on the nod.

That is why AMD an other always end up 20% larger dies
Well that was a shocker!

Like really, who believed they were actually gonna release 7nm this year?




Do you ever get tired of spouting this rubbish?

That's like Nikola saying they make better electric semis than Tesla. lmao
They have actual specs here:
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
8,970 (4.24/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Black Box
Processor Intel i5-9600KF
Motherboard NZXT N7 Z370 Black
Cooling Cooler Master 240 RGB AIO / Stock
Memory Thermaltake Toughram 16GB 4400MHz DDR4 or Gigabyte 16GB 3600MHz DDR4 or Adata 8GB 2133Mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) Asus Dual 1060 6GB
Storage Kingston A2000 512Gb NVME
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Case Corsair 450D High Air Flow.
Audio Device(s) No need.
Power Supply FSP Aurum 650W
Mouse Yes
Keyboard Of course
Software W10 Pro 64 bit
10nm all over again.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,298 (0.37/day)
They have actual specs here:
You didn't get the reference to Nikola did you? You ever heard of the saying "A Bird in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush?" :roll:
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,489 (1.95/day)
Processor i5-8400
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 2080 Phoenix
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Logitech G700
Keyboard Corsair K60
How the hell did they mess up so badly, like I said on Anandtech, since Sandy Bridge in 2011 they didn't do anything major, they just got a lot of money doing the same thing over and over.
I do not understand the popular opinion that Intel does nothing. They absolutely do a lot of things.
We are all disappointed that they are failing to bring out proper competition to AMD Ryzens but come on.

After Sandy Bridge they did 22nm and 14nm manufacturing processes, arguably the 10nm process and 7nm is somewhere in the pipeline.
In terms of CPUs, AVX2, extending execution resources and caches, adding new tech as it comes along etc. And Ice Lake has even more substantial changes than that. Current Comet Lake (which is a rehashed Skylake from 2015) is ~25% faster than Sandy Bridge with single core load at the same clock. Ice Lake is a good step faster than that, Intel's 18% has been verified to be true enough.

This is just mainline CPUs. There is the Atom line that Intel seems to be getting back to with Tremont. There is XPoint with hopefully new gen coming out at one point.
Plus there are a bunch of other things Intel does with varying degrees of success - NAND Flash and controllers, FPGAs come to mind. Packaging technologies like EMIB or Foveros. Mobile modems and 5G is something they failed at.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
576 (0.15/day)
Processor Intel Core i5 8400
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370N-Wifi
Cooling Silverstone AR05
Memory Micron Crucial 16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX1080 G1 Gaming 8G
Storage Micron Crucial MX300 275GB
Display(s) Dell U2415
Case Silverstone RVZ02B
Power Supply Silverstone SSR-SX550
Keyboard Ducky One Red Switch
Software Windows 10 Pro 1909
Duke Nukem for Intel
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
6,392 (1.11/day)
Location
Formosa
System Name Overlord Mk MXVI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro
Memory 32GB Viper Steel 3600 DDR4 @ 3800MHz 16-19-16-19-36
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 2080 Gaming OC 8G
Storage 1TB WD Black NVMe (2018), 2TB Viper VPN100, 1TB WD Blue 3D NAND
Display(s) Asus PG27AQ
Case Corsair Carbide 275Q
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Wooting Two
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/33u9si
I do not understand the popular opinion that Intel does nothing. They absolutely do a lot of things.
We are all disappointed that they are failing to bring out proper competition to AMD Ryzens but come on.

After Sandy Bridge they did 22nm and 14nm manufacturing processes, arguably the 10nm process and 7nm is somewhere in the pipeline.
In terms of CPUs, AVX2, extending execution resources and caches, adding new tech as it comes along etc. And Ice Lake has even more substantial changes than that. Current Comet Lake (which is a rehashed Skylake from 2015) is ~25% faster than Sandy Bridge with single core load at the same clock. Ice Lake is a good step faster than that, Intel's 18% has been verified to be true enough.

This is just mainline CPUs. There is the Atom line that Intel seems to be getting back to with Tremont. There is XPoint with hopefully new gen coming out at one point.
Plus there are a bunch of other things Intel does with varying degrees of success - NAND Flash and controllers, FPGAs come to mind. Packaging technologies like EMIB or Foveros. Mobile modems and 5G is something they failed at.
It's not that Intel hasn't done anything, it's more that they've over promised and under delivered time and time again when it comes to a lot of their products.
Unfortunately this is what happens when you have a de facto monopoly in any industry, so this is by no means unique to Intel.

They also tried to jump further than was technically possible with their process node, as they believed that they could go down a different and supposedly better router, which turned out to be a disaster in the end. However, due to management decisions, this wasn't knocked on the head early enough, instead they tried to salvage it several times over, which lead to further delays. This is how many a company has gone bust, but luckily for Intel, there wasn't much competition, so they could continue using their current node.

This doesn't even take into account all the security holes Intel has been struggling to patch, which makes the company look like they haven't even bothered to check their products properly, as they affect so many generations of processors. There will obviously always be things like this cropping up, as someone will always find a way to bypass security, but it feels like Intel has been lazy here.

Now the competition has caught up and is about to potentially supersede Intel on many levels, which is what makes Intel look bad.

We obviously have limited insight into what they're working on, but the information that is available makes it look like it's at last another 2-3 years before Intel might be able to sort all this out and be back with something truly competitive, both in terms of process node and desktop CPU performance.

However, you are right that Intel is also working on a lot of other things, although XPoint wasn't done just by Intel, as it was co-designed with Micron and the FPGA was added though an acquisition of Altera, so that wasn't developed in-house.

Maybe the loss of focus is partially what caused some of the problems in the company, there were too many BU's fighting for resources and that's why things are where they are today. I guess you also forgot about Intel's attempt at competing with ARM in the mobile phone space, which ended in a disaster, as there's no other word for it.

Is Intel a terrible company because of all this? Of course not, but it shows that even the giants can fall from grace.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,489 (1.95/day)
Processor i5-8400
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 2080 Phoenix
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Logitech G700
Keyboard Corsair K60
We obviously have limited insight into what they're working on, but the information that is available makes it look like it's at last another 2-3 years before Intel might be able to sort all this out and be back with something truly competitive, both in terms of process node and desktop CPU performance.
I only half-agree with you here. From the limited insight we have, lack of a workable new process node is their root and main problem. Architecturally speaking Ice Lake is OK, Tiger Lake seems to shape up just fine as well. Intel simply cannot produce this stuff. Even Skylake/Comet Lake is not half bad considering what it is with one notable exception - power consumption, which is very much down to process node.

Edit: Ice Lake and Tiger Lake are obviously not without issues. 10nm is still rough, core count is too low for whatever reason, marketing is doing them no favors, do not exist on desktop etc. But in terms of CPU architecture and performance, they are not in a bad place.
Maybe the loss of focus is partially what caused some of the problems in the company, there were too many BU's fighting for resources and that's why things are where they are today. I guess you also forgot about Intel's attempt at competing with ARM in the mobile phone space, which ended in a disaster, as there's no other word for it.
BUs fighting for resources is normal for all corporations :)
Intel's mobile attempt is definitely not the only thing I forgot. They are dealing in too many areas.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,640 (0.65/day)
Location
Athens, Greece
System Name 3 systems: Gaming / Internet / HTPC
Processor Intel i5 4460 / Thuban 1075T @ 3.8GHz / A6 7400K
Motherboard ASRock Z97 Extreme6 / Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 / ASUS FM2+
Cooling Modified AM2 Asetek MicroChill / Noctua U12S / CoolerMaster TX2
Memory 16GB Kingston KHX1866C10D3 / 16GB Adata 2133MHz / 8GB Kingston 2400MHz (DDR3)
Video Card(s) XFX RX 580 8GB + GT 620 (PhysX)/ GT 710 / A6 7400K iGPU
Storage Intel NVMe 500GB, Samsung NVMe 250GB + more / Kingston 240GB + more / Samsung SSD 120GB
Display(s) Samsung LE32D550 32'' TV(2 systems connected) / LG 42''
Case Sharkoon Rebel 12 / Sharkoon Rebel 9 / Xigmatek Midguard
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Chieftec 850W / Sharkoon 650W / Chieftec 560W
Mouse CoolerMaster / Rapoo / Logitech
Keyboard CoolerMaster / Microsoft / Logitech
Software Windows
Funny that OEMs will have to start pushing AMD models in the market, as the premium optrions, because Intel CPUs are going to become non competitive in a year.

Now we also know why Apple chose this time to switch to ARM.

On the other hand, Zen 3 will be ultra expensive to avoid pushing Intel to drop prices.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
6,392 (1.11/day)
Location
Formosa
System Name Overlord Mk MXVI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro
Memory 32GB Viper Steel 3600 DDR4 @ 3800MHz 16-19-16-19-36
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 2080 Gaming OC 8G
Storage 1TB WD Black NVMe (2018), 2TB Viper VPN100, 1TB WD Blue 3D NAND
Display(s) Asus PG27AQ
Case Corsair Carbide 275Q
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Wooting Two
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/33u9si
I only half-agree with you here. From the limited insight we have, lack of a workable new process node is their root and main problem. Architecturally speaking Ice Lake is OK, Tiger Lake seems to shape up just fine as well. Intel simply cannot produce this stuff. Even Skylake/Comet Lake is not half bad considering what it is with one notable exception - power consumption, which is very much down to process node.

Edit: Ice Lake and Tiger Lake are obviously not without issues. 10nm is still rough, core count is too low for whatever reason, marketing is doing them no favors, do not exist on desktop etc. But in terms of CPU architecture and performance, they are not in a bad place.
BUs fighting for resources is normal for all corporations :)
Intel's mobile attempt is definitely not the only thing I forgot. They are dealing in too many areas.
But how is a good CPU design going to help them if they can't produce it? I mean, it could be the best thing since sliced bread, but if they only get 10 chips per wafer, what it does it matter, as it's going to cost a fortune and no-one will buy it?
Without a reliable process node, their CPU designs aren't going to help them get out of the hole they dug themselves into.

On the other hand, Zen 3 will be ultra expensive to avoid pushing Intel to drop prices.
And you know this how? Obviously AMD is going to cash in on being the top dog for the time, I mean, they need the money, but ultra expensive...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
2,954 (0.52/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
:rolleyes:

Surprise, surprise...

What's hurting Intel most right now is the culture among upper management of "we're the best, we'll figure it out, we don't need outside help". Pride comes before a fall, as they say, and Intel is still prideful and still falling. The only question remaining is how long before they get fresh blood that isn't bound by the sunk cost fallacy, and is willing to throw the whole 10nm mess (and potentially 7nm too now, it seems) on the garbage heap.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,640 (0.65/day)
Location
Athens, Greece
System Name 3 systems: Gaming / Internet / HTPC
Processor Intel i5 4460 / Thuban 1075T @ 3.8GHz / A6 7400K
Motherboard ASRock Z97 Extreme6 / Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 / ASUS FM2+
Cooling Modified AM2 Asetek MicroChill / Noctua U12S / CoolerMaster TX2
Memory 16GB Kingston KHX1866C10D3 / 16GB Adata 2133MHz / 8GB Kingston 2400MHz (DDR3)
Video Card(s) XFX RX 580 8GB + GT 620 (PhysX)/ GT 710 / A6 7400K iGPU
Storage Intel NVMe 500GB, Samsung NVMe 250GB + more / Kingston 240GB + more / Samsung SSD 120GB
Display(s) Samsung LE32D550 32'' TV(2 systems connected) / LG 42''
Case Sharkoon Rebel 12 / Sharkoon Rebel 9 / Xigmatek Midguard
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Chieftec 850W / Sharkoon 650W / Chieftec 560W
Mouse CoolerMaster / Rapoo / Logitech
Keyboard CoolerMaster / Microsoft / Logitech
Software Windows
We are all disappointed that they are failing to bring out proper competition to AMD Ryzens but come on.
Not all.

Personally I would love Intel becoming noncompetitive for a couple of years or more if needed. That way it will lose it's influence on OEMs and the tech press and give AMD the room needed to become a viable competitor to Intel. Intel is using it's money and influence the last 20 or more years, to secure an 80% or more of the market, even when having worst products. We need two companies that will have a 50-50 or at least a 60-40 percent of the market, not a company owning 80% of the market, pushing to 90% in some periods, thanks to its big pockets.

We all know what a "competitive Intel" means. Full control of the OEM and server market, full influence on the tech press and benchmark suites/sites. No thanks. Let Intel shrink a little, let AMD grow a lot, just so we can hope for a duopoly that works, not a duopoly that is a monopoly in disguise.


And you know this how? Obviously AMD is going to cash in on being the top dog for the time mean, they need the money, but ultra expensive...
They have a very competitive Zen 2 line of models in the market that they can keep selling. The XT models where made to keep Zen 2 prices up and the 5600XT fiasco showed us that AMD's mentality is changing. They will create a mess instead of dropping the MSRP price by 7-10%.

We now also know that they don't need to fear a responce from Intel. Only a price war that they can avoid by not pushing prices down. They can still sell cheap to OEMs, but in retail they will put higher prices to drive margins up and try to create the image of being the premium brand. If they don't try to convince consumers now, that the AMD brand is in fact the premium brand, when are they going to do it? When Intel starts throwing out more 10nm models or when they finaly fix their 7nm problems(they might never manage to fix those, but I bet at AMD they build strategies based on Intel's fast recovery in manufacturing just to be ready for that possibility).

:rolleyes:

Surprise, surprise...

What's hurting Intel most right now is the culture among upper management of "we're the best, we'll figure it out, we don't need outside help". Pride comes before a fall, as they say, and Intel is still prideful and still falling. The only question remaining is how long before they get fresh blood that isn't bound by the sunk cost fallacy, and is willing to throw the whole 10nm mess (and potentially 7nm too now, it seems) on the garbage heap.
It's not only that. It's the security they feel as long as OEMs stick with them, as long as most ITs keep choosing Xeons. They keep going from record revenue to record revenue. The pile of money is keep growing in front of them, hiding the train that is coming to run over them.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,489 (1.95/day)
Processor i5-8400
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 2080 Phoenix
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Logitech G700
Keyboard Corsair K60
But how is a good CPU design going to help them if they can't produce it? I mean, it could be the best thing since sliced bread, but if they only get 10 chips per wafer, what it does it matter, as it's going to cost a fortune and no-one will buy it? Without a reliable process node, their CPU designs aren't going to help them get out of the hole they dug themselves into.
That was not quite what I meant. They have one problem to solve to get back in the game. When manufacturing process problem is solved (in whatever way, make a deal with TSMC or Samsung for all we care), they will hit the ground running.
 
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
227 (0.10/day)
Processor 7900X 4.6
Motherboard X299 DLX
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer 360 II
Memory 4x8gb Trident-Z 3600 @ 3800
Video Card(s) Duke 2080
Storage Optane 280gb PCI-E + Intel 750 480gb
Display(s) PG348Q
Case Core P3
Audio Device(s) ATOLL DAC 100SE, Magnat RV-1 to Dali Ikon 1 MK2, QED banana cabling
Power Supply AX1500i
Mouse Glorious Model O matte
Keyboard Topre Realforce 87U with all 30g keys
Software Win 10 Pro
That's like Nikola saying they make better electric semis than Tesla. lmao
Nikola does make better semis than Tesla though. Given Tesla's track record on reliability of their cars (especially now China) I'd much rather try Nikola. IIRC, they are also better specced / looking inside out. While having a huge hydrogen tank is not viable for cars, it actually makes a whole lot of sense for a semi due to the range anxiety on pure electric - while carrying a lot of weight too. The problem is not having enough hydrogen filling base stations. While this is still an issue (which Nikola states they'll try to fix in 2023), it doesn't make the truck itself bad.

I was looking at those Xeons I spoke about earlier and the lower end versions of them like Bronze are hilariously awful. They are based on the old iteration of Skylake-X, but with nothing that even made those good. They're locked, have no HT and no turbo. Base is around 1.5-2 Ghz, awful arrangement just like the CPU found in the Mac Pro. Intel is seriously still selling these.

AMD has a better for most things end user, like their only lack is native AVX-512 support, but that's not where they were headed first. They tried to take Intel down from the desktop market and they did most of it. Servers could still use their old Intel gear, depending on the size and needs of the cluster, and I think it is partly a case of that. Renoir is a far better CPU than the old Intel chip kinds of laptops still use. AMD is making a phone CPU too, they're putting their goods to where end consumer wants to see. I guess OEMs keep using massive trays of leftover Intel CPUs for their NUCs and whatnot (say 7200U), and this is a part of market they control...
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
2,954 (0.52/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
As usual, a more comprehensive writeup from AT that reveals some very interesting details: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15926/intel-7nm-delayed-by-6-months-company-to-take-pragmatic-approach-in-using-3rd-party-fabs

Supposedly, this 7nm slip is due to a defect in the process that Intel is confident they have isolated and can fix (take that claim with a scoop of salt, but the fact that they are being specific about issues with 7nm vs the dead silence from continuing 10nm issues is positive).

But the most interesting snippet is this:

AnandTech said:
... the message from Intel is clear: they will do what they need to in order to deliver new products according to their release roadmap... including manufacturing a product entirely at a third-party fab if that is truly the best option
This tells me that the OEMs have made it very clear to Intel that unless the latter starts hitting its projected dates again, they are going to AMD. Evidently the tipping point between familiarity with Intel but having to deal with missed releases, vs AMD predictability but having to retool for it, has been reached.

Now, whether Intel actually takes that message seriously enough is anyone's guess - see my previous comments about pride and corporate culture - but it seems that Intel is finally feeling the pressure it should have felt back in 2017 when 10nm first slipped.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
6,392 (1.11/day)
Location
Formosa
System Name Overlord Mk MXVI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master
Cooling Corsair H115i Pro
Memory 32GB Viper Steel 3600 DDR4 @ 3800MHz 16-19-16-19-36
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 2080 Gaming OC 8G
Storage 1TB WD Black NVMe (2018), 2TB Viper VPN100, 1TB WD Blue 3D NAND
Display(s) Asus PG27AQ
Case Corsair Carbide 275Q
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Wooting Two
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/33u9si
That was not quite what I meant. They have one problem to solve to get back in the game. When manufacturing process problem is solved (in whatever way, make a deal with TSMC or Samsung for all we care), they will hit the ground running.
If only it was that easy.

You can't simply take something designed for one process node and make it on someone else's process node. This is why companies have to stick to the foundry they've designed their part to made at.
There were some cross-compatibility at one point between GloFo, Samsung and someone else, but that was on something like 32 or 2x nm and still required a fair bit of extra work to move between the two foundries.

So say Intel would take anyone of their current products and move it to TSMC, they'd have to spend something like six months to just transition their designs to work with TSMC's process node, then most likely spend another couple of months to make sure the tape-out is successful and then tune that over the better part of six months to a year before they're running at a decent production rate. So no, Intel wouldn't hit the ground running, unless they designed a new chip from more or less scratch, specifically for the TSMC process node, which might be quicker than trying to transplant a current design based on Intel's process node.

In all fairness, Intel has already made some products on various TSMC process nodes, so they might be able to do things a little bit quicker because of that, but it's still going to be more or less a year from start to finish.

As usual, a more comprehensive writeup from AT that reveals some very interesting details: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15926/intel-7nm-delayed-by-6-months-company-to-take-pragmatic-approach-in-using-3rd-party-fabs

Supposedly, this 7nm slip is due to a defect in the process that Intel is confident they have isolated and can fix (take that claim with a scoop of salt, but the fact that they are being specific about issues with 7nm vs the dead silence from continuing 10nm issues is positive).

But the most interesting snippet is this:


This tells me that the OEMs have made it very clear to Intel that unless the latter starts hitting its projected dates again, they are going to AMD. Evidently the tipping point between familiarity with Intel but having to deal with missed releases, vs AMD predictability but having to retool for it, has been reached.

Now, whether Intel actually takes that message seriously enough is anyone's guess - see my previous comments about pride and corporate culture - but it seems that Intel is finally feeling the pressure it should have felt back in 2017 when 10nm first slipped.
The question that remains unanswered though is this: Does TSMC have enough capacity to manufacture for Intel? Assuming they would go with TSMC.
Samsung might have the capacity, but I'm not aware of anything Intel has ever made in one of Samsungs foundries.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
2,067 (0.83/day)
Location
If'n I tellz ya, den I gotzta, well, you know....
System Name The Big RED One
Processor i9-9900k, oc'd to 5.2 ghz
Motherboard Asus ROG Maximus Hero Wifi Z390
Cooling Corsair H115i pro AIO 280mm push/pull, 11x Corsair 140mm ML RGB Fans (top, sides, rear)
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengence RBG pro DDR4-3200 (4x 8GB) in XMP2
Video Card(s) MSI Seahawk 1070 w/15% o/c
Storage 2x WD Black SN750 1TB m.2 + 4TB Crucial SSD + WD 8TB external
Display(s) 2x Samsung 43" LCD's @4k-1440p
Case Thermaltake TT900 Supertower
Audio Device(s) Built-in
Power Supply EVGA G2 SuperNova 850W Modular
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2
Keyboard Logitech G613 mechanical wireless
Software Windows 10 pro 64 bit, with all the unnecessary background shiite turned OFF !
Benchmark Scores Quicker than flies on a dung pile
mooooo.....mooooo.

Can ya smell what kinda milk da rock be cookin ...:roll:...:D...:peace:
 

Attachments

Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,489 (1.95/day)
Processor i5-8400
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 2080 Phoenix
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Logitech G700
Keyboard Corsair K60
If only it was that easy.

You can't simply take something designed for one process node and make it on someone else's process node. This is why companies have to stick to the foundry they've designed their part to made at.
There were some cross-compatibility at one point between GloFo, Samsung and someone else, but that was on something like 32 or 2x nm and still required a fair bit of extra work to move between the two foundries.

So say Intel would take anyone of their current products and move it to TSMC, they'd have to spend something like six months to just transition their designs to work with TSMC's process node, then most likely spend another couple of months to make sure the tape-out is successful and then tune that over the better part of six months to a year before they're running at a decent production rate. So no, Intel wouldn't hit the ground running, unless they designed a new chip from more or less scratch, specifically for the TSMC process node, which might be quicker than trying to transplant a current design based on Intel's process node.
I know it is not that easy. Intel has been talking about external manufacturing for Xe GPUs from the beginning so it shouldn't be a problem for those. I would be very surprised if Intel actually decided to outsource manufacturing CPUs. From what has been said, Intel has very different tools from what the rest of the industry uses so moving something core like CPUs to an external foundry would be a huge undertaking.

That was not meant as a realistic option, just an out of the blue example . Intel will likely figure out the manufacturing process sooner or later. By all indications there is enough money to bleed until they do.
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,123 (0.30/day)
When manufacturing process problem is solved
We have to see a precedent to come to believe it.
I think it is due to company culture. These discrete product segmentations cost Intel to skip mixed loads altogether. For instance, there was a time when Intel could halt the AMD surge into the streamer pc market. No one knew AMD back then, it was all singular workloads until concurrently cpu encoding at the same time showed up. The AMD multithreading prowess wasn't taken for serious.
It was their esram featured chips that didn't get the greenlight from the higher ups. They were much cheaper(market buffered) and possibly a better candidate than intel's mainstream cpus to extend feature support. If intel somehow made the slight performance, they would have a line up based on esram feature level(they said time and again they had 4 times the amount projected for a measly 4 core cpu, they could have extended to its own distinction).
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
174 (0.31/day)
Location
United Kingdom
Processor Intel Core i7-7700
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B250I Gaming
Cooling Corsair H80i v2
Memory 2x 8 GB HyperX Fury DDR4 2400 MHz CL15
Video Card(s) MSi GeForce GTX 1660 Ti Gaming X
Storage 512 GB ADATA SP600, 2 TB Seagate Barracuda 2.5"
Display(s) Samsung C24F396
Case Cooler Master Elite 130
Audio Device(s) Genius SP-HF160 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Cooler Master G550M
Mouse Logitech M525
Keyboard MagicForce 68
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores 3DMark Time Spy: 6113, Superposition 1080p Extreme: 3426, Cinebench R20: 2048/398
More Skylake, yay! :clap:
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
1,038 (0.26/day)
Location
Chicago, Illinois
Let me guess......

10nm +++ that boost up to 5.5Ghz with big.LITTLE design that chew tons of power but miraculously competitive against 5nm EUV.

Maybe Intel should just consider shipping bare die locked CPU with cooler soldered on the top, at least user won't complain about temperature.

Lets hope 10nm +++ won't happen, Intel can't be this stubburn, they seems to realize AMD's threat already.
I just bought an i5-10600k and this sounds like Intel is already planning on stalling everything out or milking things dry. I get the pandemic slowing things down but with their history as of late...
 
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
227 (0.10/day)
Processor 7900X 4.6
Motherboard X299 DLX
Cooling Arctic Liquid Freezer 360 II
Memory 4x8gb Trident-Z 3600 @ 3800
Video Card(s) Duke 2080
Storage Optane 280gb PCI-E + Intel 750 480gb
Display(s) PG348Q
Case Core P3
Audio Device(s) ATOLL DAC 100SE, Magnat RV-1 to Dali Ikon 1 MK2, QED banana cabling
Power Supply AX1500i
Mouse Glorious Model O matte
Keyboard Topre Realforce 87U with all 30g keys
Software Win 10 Pro
I just bought an i5-10600k and this sounds like Intel is already planning on stalling everything out or milking things dry. I get the pandemic slowing things down but with their history as of late...
Might wait a bit and get that new Gigabyte board with the monoblock 360 AIO if you don't have a board, seems like the only thing making that platform worth it, somehow... (board is probably overpriced lol).
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
2,280 (1.23/day)
System Name My all round PC
Processor i5 750
Motherboard ASUS P7P55D-E
Memory 8GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire 380 OC... sold, waiting for Navi
Storage 256GB Samsung SSD + 2Tb + 1.5Tb
Display(s) Samsung 40" A650 TV
Case Thermaltake Chaser mk-I Tower
Power Supply 425w Enermax MODU 82+
Software Windows 10
Uh, isn't Intel's 10nm denser than TSMC 7nm?

I suspect Intel's 7nm needs to be lined up against TSMC's "5".

It's not even remotely as bad as presented.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,640 (0.65/day)
Location
Athens, Greece
System Name 3 systems: Gaming / Internet / HTPC
Processor Intel i5 4460 / Thuban 1075T @ 3.8GHz / A6 7400K
Motherboard ASRock Z97 Extreme6 / Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 / ASUS FM2+
Cooling Modified AM2 Asetek MicroChill / Noctua U12S / CoolerMaster TX2
Memory 16GB Kingston KHX1866C10D3 / 16GB Adata 2133MHz / 8GB Kingston 2400MHz (DDR3)
Video Card(s) XFX RX 580 8GB + GT 620 (PhysX)/ GT 710 / A6 7400K iGPU
Storage Intel NVMe 500GB, Samsung NVMe 250GB + more / Kingston 240GB + more / Samsung SSD 120GB
Display(s) Samsung LE32D550 32'' TV(2 systems connected) / LG 42''
Case Sharkoon Rebel 12 / Sharkoon Rebel 9 / Xigmatek Midguard
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Chieftec 850W / Sharkoon 650W / Chieftec 560W
Mouse CoolerMaster / Rapoo / Logitech
Keyboard CoolerMaster / Microsoft / Logitech
Software Windows
It's not even remotely as bad as presented.
its probably nothing.jpg


Well, people are jumping ship.

TSMC's 7nm are in a much better condition than Intel's 10nm. People can expect 5nm from TSMC to also be in good shape, but after that lattest announcement from Intel, 7nm is a huge questionmark. not even a "not so good node". It is a "huge question mark node".
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,123 (0.30/day)
sadly,I do.
That is quite a low vibe retort. It got lost on me.
This might devolve into gpu trolling stereotypes which steam charts are playing the joke in question. It won't go so lightly however. 860 is both cheap and dominant in a way fake virtual accounts in chinese cyber cafes cannot tip the balance.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
343 (0.07/day)
System Name Just another PC
Processor Ryzen 1700
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-AX370-K3
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14
Memory DDR4-2133 2x16GB
Video Card(s) XFX RX480 8GB
Storage Samy 960 EVO 500GB m.2, 500GB SSD & a 2TB spinner
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 550W
Mouse Mionix Naos 8200
Keyboard Corsair with browns
Software W10 Pro x64 v1809
Benchmark Scores It can run the interwebs
Meh, record profits though, just stay on 14nm until no more record profits ;)
 
Top