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Intel Achieves Gender Pay Equity Globally

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All their 3rd world manufacturing slaves are all paid dirt.. but oh hey lets focus on equal pay for the more marketable, tenured professionals. Love my 8700k, but other than that, I could care less about this news.
 
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i am not against gender pay equality but i really hate to see the greediest company on earth (behind nvidia) jump on the equality bandwagon where i dont believe that pay equality exist even between men (in Intel and maybe all other capitalist corps)
 
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Really, can you count the number of casualties there besides major wars? Can you count the number from WW II or the last Iraq war?
https://nypost.com/2018/11/02/mom-accused-of-shooting-her-kids-in-the-head-while-they-slept/
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/fla-mom-kills-kids-for-talking-back-say-police/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/florida-mom-kills-4-kids
https://wgntv.com/2018/09/03/alaska-mom-charged-with-killing-her-2-kids-after-searching-online-for-ways-to-suffocate/
https://local12.com/news/nation-world/autopsy-tennessee-mother-shot-34-rounds-into-her-children-before-killing-herself-12-15-2018
https://www.ajc.com/news/local/just-mother-accused-killing-toddlers-waives-first-court-appearance/agr5EsCcrcE7ScWxz1BwrM/
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-north-pinellas/largo/charisse-stinson-mother-of-missing-2-year-old-largo-boy-admits-to-killing-son-in-moment-of-frustration-report-says
https://6abc.com/da-parkesburg-mom-pushed-daughter-down-steps-killing-her/4623920/
https://www.localdvm.com/news/west-virginia/court-documents-outline-west-virginia-shooting/1465269519
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/renton-mother-shoots-kills-estranged-teen-daughter-who-had-called-911-for-help-police-say/
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/article210167299.html
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article217856320.html

Women kill all the time, our media does a poor job of exposing and exploring it, as women are seen as less violent, despite recent studies showing them as the aggressors in many situations. Actually googling the question shows how whitewashed it is as Google tries to spit out results still blaming men, despite https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/aug/28/women-arrested-domestic-violence
http://www.humanservices.alberta.ca/documents/PFVB1100-men-abused-by-women-booklet.pdf
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/5d33c36d-cd41-4351-97ed-4516962d5c44
https://www.mintpressnews.com/woman-aggressor-unspoken-truth-domestic-violence/196746/
 

eidairaman1

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https://nypost.com/2018/11/02/mom-accused-of-shooting-her-kids-in-the-head-while-they-slept/
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/fla-mom-kills-kids-for-talking-back-say-police/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/florida-mom-kills-4-kids
https://wgntv.com/2018/09/03/alaska-mom-charged-with-killing-her-2-kids-after-searching-online-for-ways-to-suffocate/
https://local12.com/news/nation-world/autopsy-tennessee-mother-shot-34-rounds-into-her-children-before-killing-herself-12-15-2018
https://www.ajc.com/news/local/just-mother-accused-killing-toddlers-waives-first-court-appearance/agr5EsCcrcE7ScWxz1BwrM/
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-north-pinellas/largo/charisse-stinson-mother-of-missing-2-year-old-largo-boy-admits-to-killing-son-in-moment-of-frustration-report-says
https://6abc.com/da-parkesburg-mom-pushed-daughter-down-steps-killing-her/4623920/
https://www.localdvm.com/news/west-virginia/court-documents-outline-west-virginia-shooting/1465269519
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/renton-mother-shoots-kills-estranged-teen-daughter-who-had-called-911-for-help-police-say/
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/article210167299.html
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article217856320.html

Women kill all the time, our media does a poor job of exposing and exploring it, as women are seen as less violent, despite recent studies showing them as the aggressors in many situations. Actually googling the question shows how whitewashed it is as Google tries to spit out results still blaming men, despite https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/aug/28/women-arrested-domestic-violence
http://www.humanservices.alberta.ca/documents/PFVB1100-men-abused-by-women-booklet.pdf
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/5d33c36d-cd41-4351-97ed-4516962d5c44
https://www.mintpressnews.com/woman-aggressor-unspoken-truth-domestic-violence/196746/
Plus they are Committing Sexual Misconduct in Professional Environments to boot-or Fraternization.
 
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Women kill all the time, our media does a poor job of exposing and exploring it, as women are seen as less violent, despite recent studies showing them as the aggressors in many situations
Alright but where does it prove your hypothesis, which I assume was against the historical fact wrt men having started more wars & being responsible for more deaths than women? You still don't have a counter to that. Sure women are just as likely to go violent as men, but men having been historically in more leadership positions & by virtue of dominating other (major) positions of power, like trade bosses, have had a disproportionate hand in many of the wrongs that our world still suffers from! Aside from that how can you justify that any other gender shouldn't get equal pay for the same work/post as men? You can't, can you!

I've already addressed the point about under performing or non performing workers i.e. they shouldn't get any leeway for whoever they are.
Actually googling the question shows how whitewashed it is as Google tries to spit out results still blaming men, despite
So now Google is biased as well :wtf:
 
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Ah good ol' equity.

As long as it's performance based then it's fine; it's probably just seniority and demographics based which means a bunch of people get underpaid for their work while a many are overpaid.

Men and women are both shitty in different ways.

Sure women are just as likely to go violent as men, but men having been historically in more leadership positions & by virtue of dominating other (major) positions of power, like trade bosses, have had a disproportionate hand in many of the wrongs that our world still suffers from!
They've also had a disproportionate hand in every new invention, and technology that you take for granted. We have far fewer wrongs today than we have ever had before. They had a huge hand in that too. To view the world from a men vs women perspective is fundamentally stupid.
 
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This can only be a good thing. Often, engineers at the same rank and productivity are paid differently based on how little their manager or HR thinks they can get away with. Not surprisingly, the statistics show that they pay women less, either because they think they can get away with it or due to unconscious bias, and this even comes from women managers too, so I'm not suggesting men are consciously assholes. And of course it is okay to pay people that do better more. But it should be clear in their title and rank or as a bonus tied to results, not just a "gut" feeling that one employee is better than the other, because gut feelings are sometimes informed by internal, unconscious biases.

In general, the tech sector and private business in general are awful with pay parity. They usually threaten employees with discipline if they discuss wages with their coworkers, or suggest that it is "confidential." It's not. In the US, it's actually illegal to discipline or fire someone for discussing their pay. Believe it or not, this push for pay parity is going to help men that are soft spoken or marginalized for other reasons as well. Some studies show that overweight and bald employees are usually paid less for doing the same job too. Having pay parity for equal work is only fair, and since unions are a bad word now, it's getting harder and harder to make equal pay a reality.

This will probably help Intel recruit all sorts of new graduates, not just women. Everyone feels better when their wages are more transparent, because then they get an idea of how to improve their wages, other than being a thin, full-headed man or loud enough to demand a raise. If you're mad at the fact that a woman and a man will get the same pay when they are initially hired, you should do some introspective thinking. The answer is not that men are better at programming. In my personal experience, that is just not true at any level.
 
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This can only be a good thing. Often, engineers at the same rank and productivity are paid differently based on how little their manager or HR thinks they can get away with. Not surprisingly, the statistics show that they pay women less, either because they think they can get away with it or due to unconscious bias, and this even comes from women managers too, so I'm not suggesting men are consciously assholes. And of course it is okay to pay people that do better more. But it should be clear in their title and rank or as a bonus tied to results, not just a "gut" feeling that one employee is better than the other, because gut feelings are sometimes informed by internal, unconscious biases.

In general, the tech sector and private business in general are awful with pay parity. They usually threaten employees with discipline if they discuss wages with their coworkers, or suggest that it is "confidential." It's not. In the US, it's actually illegal to discipline or fire someone for discussing their pay. Believe it or not, this push for pay parity is going to help men that are soft spoken or marginalized for other reasons as well. Some studies show that overweight and bald employees are usually paid less for doing the same job too. Having pay parity for equal work is only fair, and since unions are a bad word now, it's getting harder and harder to make equal pay a reality.

This will probably help Intel recruit all sorts of new graduates, not just women. Everyone feels better when their wages are more transparent, because then they get an idea of how to improve their wages, other than being a thin, full-headed man or loud enough to demand a raise. If you're mad at the fact that a woman and a man will get the same pay when they are initially hired, you should do some introspective thinking. The answer is not that men are better at programming. In my personal experience, that is just not true at any level.

I am interested in seeing their algorithm or any algorithm or even an AI productivity manager that can fairly calculate the value of a person to a company. When I was hiring my team of analysts in Miami I ended up with mostly women due to the fact that they had higher skill and intake test scores asked for a lower starting salary than the male interviewees.

But paying as little as you can get away with is 1000% accurate.

Also engineers vary in productivity and contribution during their career; my wife just had a kid - I am beyond worthless to my company for the last 4 months. Still get paid the same though. Also some people are busting their butts now but in the future will scale back. So it would be interesting to see if salaries could be tied to performance (like in sales) for professional positions.
 
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Please be less shit to one another, including women. I dislike moderating news posts, but comments that go against forum guidelines will be moderated/deleted.
 
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I am interested in seeing their algorithm or any algorithm or even an AI productivity manager that can fairly calculate the value of a person to a company.... I am beyond worthless to my company for the last 4 months. Still get paid the same though. Also some people are busting their butts now but in the future will scale back. So it would be interesting to see if salaries could be tied to performance (like in sales) for professional positions.
Yep, it's not easy to assign worth to an employee. Do it on commit history, and maybe you miss that one person was putting in doc changes and the other was refactoring large parts of the code. Do it by number of lines changed, and maybe you set up an incentive to make verbose code to bump up your stats. I think the most straightforward way is to have many levels of engineer, based on large-picture descriptions of work output, responsibilities, and different measures of success, and then have a clear starting pay for the level and have large raises tied to getting to the next level, and rewards for good work come through bonuses clearly tied to metrics. And regular inflation/cost of living raises too!

Of course, that would be the ideal for me. I know that it might be a pipe dream. It would just be nice not to have to do the whole dance of leaving a job and coming back just to get a raise, or enter high-stakes negotiations every year instead of actually trying to become a better employee to get more pay.
 
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Heh, if anything they probably paid higher paid workers less to level it out.
If anything some middle management just got a promo for making it look like they're ahead of the gender bias curve, likely just as much Bs as any other big companies efforts to be fair and ,All for show(ammended as it's an old saying i didn't realize had bias till i just read it) ,internal corporate tick box bullshit IMHO.
 
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They've also had a disproportionate hand in every new invention, and technology that you take for granted. We have far fewer wrongs today than we have ever had before. They had a huge hand in that too. To view the world from a men vs women perspective is fundamentally stupid.
Okay.

Yes because of PC culture, or how more people made noise about discrimination!

By "they" you mean men?

Is that all you got from this debate?

As for some of you having this theory that boys (always?) do better than girls, or men vs women, how about you take a look at the rest of the world?

http://cbse.nic.in/newsite/attach/statistics-12-2018.pdf
http://cbse.nic.in/newsite/attach/PRESS NOTE 2016 FOR CLASS XII (stat).pdf
http://cbse.nic.in/newsite/attach/PRESS NOTE 2017 FOR CLASS XII (Region Wist Stat.).pdf
http://cbse.nic.in/attach/Press Note for class 12th - Stat. 2015.pdf
http://cbse.nic.in/attach/NOTIFICATION FOR CLASS XII _ajm,ran,cha,bhu,pat_2014.pdf
 
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"you're gonna make the same if you do as good'a job" Donald J. Trump, 2016.
BTW dumb article. Why even give this attention when there is no such thing as a pay gap. Women just make different life decisions which lead to less pay, such as having a baby or not working long hours to spend more time with their children or family. And if you want to go further, remember that to you liberals out there who think gender is a social construct, then the pay gap can not exist since gender is a made up thing, right? And is the pay gap and equality even between all the many genders you claim exist? Just stop the non-sense!
 
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if you are so damn corrupt to work on a company that is fucked the whole world (maybe computers in ISS or satellites), it doesn't matter how much money you earn. chipzilla must recall and replace all spectre & meltdown cpus worldwide, doesn't matter if they are embedded or overclocked.
 

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The above is an opinion editorial by Julie Ann Overcash of Intel Corporation. Julie Ann Overcash is vice president of Human Resources and director of Compensation and Benefits at Intel Corporation.
OH the irony in the name of the Chosen Spokesperson related to the subject matter :roll::fear:
 
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Okay.

Yes because of PC culture, or how more people made noise about discrimination!

By "they" you mean men?

Is that all you got from this debate?

As for some of you having this theory that boys (always?) do better than girls, or men vs women, how about you take a look at the rest of the world?

http://cbse.nic.in/newsite/attach/statistics-12-2018.pdf
http://cbse.nic.in/newsite/attach/PRESS NOTE 2016 FOR CLASS XII (stat).pdf
http://cbse.nic.in/newsite/attach/PRESS NOTE 2017 FOR CLASS XII (Region Wist Stat.).df
http://cbse.nic.in/attach/Press Note for class 12th - Stat. 2015.pdf
http://cbse.nic.in/attach/NOTIFICATION FOR CLASS XII _ajm,ran,cha,bhu,pat_2014.pdf
IMO - PC culture has done more to segregate and alienate people than any other ideology I've ever seen. It's really great at segregating people who would otherwise get along.

I mean look at this thread... perfect example: We have a bunch of computer geeks, who want people to be paid fairly for their work, arguing over ... men vs women.
If I was a conspiracy guy, I would 100% believe that Intersectional Gender Studies was invented by the Russians to sow discord in American society.
 
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Hopefully they didnt "fix" this by just giving people who works less, and are worse at their jobs, more money just because of their skin color and gender.
Seriously? Did you even read what they said?
Intel defines pay equity as closing the gap in the average pay between employees of different genders or races and ethnicities, where data is available, in the same or similar roles after accounting for legitimate business factors that can explain differences, such as performance, time at grade level and tenure.
This really isn't very complicated.
So a shortcut to better pay for same effort output is to pick something else on the gender spectrum? Fantastic! Ain't nobody gonna complain about extra dollars if all it takes is saying I am interested in more than one type of holes, or sticks, or whatever floats your boat.

See above.
The problem is this is a false argument from the very get go..... imagine a scenario where all genders are equally productive (the one which people are trying to paint right now). Now imagine one of those genders are paid less.... wouldn't it be prudent for all companies to first hire the equally productive and qualified gender that is paid less??? I mean, that is the capitalistic way right? Same amount and quality of work for less pay. But wait.... that's not what has happened. There are still more men than women in these industries. Must be that men are keeping women out of these industries. But then we have all these scholarships and grants that go to the "minority" gender in engineering or other STEM fields. See how your twisted view of things starts to fall apart?? On top of that, there are many studies that highlight the fact that women, on average, take more sick days than men. As more and more of the talking points of pay equality are studied, the more and more it shows that it is very much a fallacy. Where I work right now (all men and all engineers), there is no set wage; we all knew what we valued ourselves at and negotiated our salary ourselves, not as a collective gender.

But the above argument is mostly for the US since I can't comment on work force experience outside of here, but for what I have experienced myself, yeah it is PC bullsh*t.
I see your cherry-picked statistics and raise you a more complex view of the world:
-Hiring doesn't follow gender wage gap spending patterns when there also exists a stigma in society saying that one group (gender, ethnicity, etc.) is somehow better at said job than others. When that's the case, hiring follows the latter pattern.
-Men aren't keeping women out, nor are white (and to some extent asian) people keeping other people of color out - but patriarchal and racist social structures where men and people from certain ethnic groups are believed to be better at these jobs are indeed keeping people not belonging to those groups out of these industries. Of course, this is systemic and not just something found in hiring practices, which means that the problem shows itself at far earlier stages (from socialization into interest for particular subjects to the adaptation of study programmes to teaching/learning styles more suited to the socialized behaviours of certain groups).
-Plenty of studies show that taking sick day increases productivity when compared to not taking sick days and coming in to work sick. Recovery takes significantly longer, productivity drops over a longer period of time, and the chance of infecting co-workers increases dramatically. This aligns with countries with generous sick leave laws generally having high levels of productivity - Norway has one of the most lenient sick leave policies in the world, yet in 2017 we were 3rd globally on the OECD's ranking of level of GDP per capita and productivity.
-Your last point just proves that rules and norms are necessary - expecting everyone to negotiate their own salaries is something that ultimately gains employers, not employees (seriously, look it up), and advantages privileged groups (white men in particular) as they are far more likely to have their demands met by management due to inherent (and often unconscious) bias. With women as an example, they are both socialized to value themselves less than men and to be less demanding in situations like this, and are seen as less valuable employees and less productive despite evidence to the contrary - in other words, they are doubly disadvantaged in any salary negotiation.

Bunch of meaningless crap to make it seem like they are fulfilling their progressive/socialist agenda, or rather the agenda that is imposed to them due to political circumstances.

You can bet your ass most of their employees, at least when talking about engineering positions, are still overwhelmingly men and are definitely getting paid more on average because they still perform more complicated jobs after all. This will always be the case and there is nothing unfair/wrong about it.
Ahahahahahahahahahahaha XD XD XD
Intel has (or is pretending to have) a socialist agenda? Seriously? Please, enlighten me as to what exactly this might be, as Intel is about as much of a predatory capitalist company as you'll ever find.

And, again, nobody has said anything about wage equality between different jobs or for people with different levels of education - this is about wage equality in equivalent jobs when accounting for factors such as performance, tenure, and time at grade level. You're (intentionally or not) misunderstanding the basic premise of what this is about - which from your rhetoric seems like a scare tactic to make this look like the scary PC mafia is coming for the high-paying jobs for well-educated people. That is obfuscation at its very worst.

To sum up: We closed the gender pay gap by giving women a higher wage than men
That is ... an interesting take. Where, exactly, do you find any support whatsoever for that statement? 'cause from where I'm looking, that would create a wage gap, not remove one.
 
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I see your cherry-picked statistics and raise you a more complex view of the world:
Funny, I didn't put any statistics in that comment at all but go ahead and start an opinionated argument such as yours with a false base of "facts / more complex view of the world". Plenty of studies have also shown that taking many sick days does the opposite of what you say and actually is detrimental to the company whether it be from reduced production or from resentment from fellow employees. See, I can make points without citing the actual studies as well. Lets up the ante a little now, throw in some affirmative action in the hiring bias and now you still want to act like there's this invisible force keeping down other genders and races? Sorry, but if that behavior really was rampant in this day and age of instant internet fame, it would be plastered everywhere and there would be an abundance of instances to cite instead of opinions.
 

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Any more personal attacks will be followed up by thread bans and points earned. Stick to the topic, be constructive, or move on!
 

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I would love to see a pay break down. My guess is over the entire company the salary increase is very close to zero. Intel is simply instituting a policy that protects itself from lawsuit.
 
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Hopefully they didnt "fix" this by just giving people who works less, and are worse at their jobs, more money just because of their skin color and gender. + every other post of this same ilk and mindset :shadedshu:

....and we wonder why the world is in its present state..... its mind boggling the level of sheer ignorance those who claim superior intelligence often produce. Its because of this mentality that we need draconian systems, laws and protective acts like this. I applaud Intel and every other company who's doing their part to level the playing field by tearing down the walls of these - good old boys / He man woman haters / must look like me / clubs which strangle and diminish true growth and creativity.... ok go ahead...you can hate me now.
 
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Funny, I didn't put any statistics in that comment at all but go ahead and start an opinionated argument such as yours with a false base of "facts / more complex view of the world". Plenty of studies have also shown that taking many sick days does the opposite of what you say and actually is detrimental to the company whether it be from reduced production or from resentment from fellow employees. See, I can make points without citing the actual studies as well. Lets up the ante a little now, throw in some affirmative action in the hiring bias and now you still want to act like there's this invisible force keeping down other genders and races? Sorry, but if that behavior really was rampant in this day and age of instant internet fame, it would be plastered everywhere and there would be an abundance of instances to cite instead of opinions.
You started out with "there are many studies that ...". I simply followed up.

When it comes to resentment due to sick leave, that's a workplace culture issue, not a productivity issue, likely mostly caused by overly competitive work environments and lack of trust between co-workers - a classic set of conditions caused by weak or nonexistent unions and labor laws, and what neoliberals, libertarians and the right all love - as infighting between workers means more power to management and owners, and ultimately more profits and worse working conditions across the board. If co-workers see sick leave when you're sick as a legitimate thing (which it really ought to be - nobody should be forced to work when sick), the chance of resentment to a degree that might harm productivity is minimal.

As for sick leave causing a fall in productivity, that's only if the leave is long-term and the company is too cheap to hire a temp to cover the workload - which ought to be part of the cost of doing business (people get sick, it's unavoidable, so to maximise productivity you need to a) get them healthy as quickly and thoroughly as possible, and b) cover their work while they do so (that's of course without mentioning what comes before that, which is creating a work environment conducive to protecting workers' health)), but the Milton Friedman school of economic thinking (which is not only the norm in the US, but the law) states that profits should be increased short-term by minimizing costs in any and all ways (to increase shareholder profitability), and thus working conditions suffer immensely. And that's how we get companies either denying people sick leave (lowering productivity) or refusing to hire temps replacing people on long-term sick leave (causing resentment due to increased workload on those still there, again lowering productivity).

Thirdly, affermative action exists precisely to counter bias - because due to the unconscious and nigh-unnoticeable (for the biased person) nature of the phenomenon, it's practically impossible to account for without legal restrictions. There's also plenty of data showing that hiring bias is alive and well even with affirmative action. It is getting better, and affirmative action policies help, but they have not come even close to creating a level playing field.



Most people here portraying this as either unfair or bad in some way are also presenting a fundamentally wrong understanding of what "wage equality" means. Either you're blinded by ideological bias and unable to read what the press release says (see my above post), or you need to read up on the definition. Wage equality does not mean equal pay for unequal work - it means equal pay for equal work. Period.

Also, for those of you saying there is no wage gap: cool. If so, Intel has simply done the research to be able to say this to shareholders without being sued for lying. If so, nothing at all has changed - so why are you protesting? And if not, and something has changed, you either have to accept that your preconceived view was wrong or that you hold a fundamental bias against this phenomenon existing. Your choice.

IMO - PC culture has done more to segregate and alienate people than any other ideology I've ever seen. It's really great at segregating people who would otherwise get along.

I mean look at this thread... perfect example: We have a bunch of computer geeks, who want people to be paid fairly for their work, arguing over ... men vs women.
If I was a conspiracy guy, I would 100% believe that Intersectional Gender Studies was invented by the Russians to sow discord in American society.
That's a view with a very short historical horizon. Binary gender as we know it is to a large degree a 20th century (Western) phenomenon - quite a few cultures, including Western countries, have had non-binary gender structures before modernity. The 20th century (and the 19th, though to a lesser degree) was generally characterized by ever-increasing systematization and formalization of designations, which (thanks in large part to the lack of actual knowledge among a lot of the people making these definitions official, or their morality) has created a far more rigid and restrictive society than any seen before. "PC culture" is a necessary and obvious response to this, particularly later developments such as gender studies and understandings of social interaction such as actor network theory - these are schools of thought that seek to break down oversimplified and overly restrictive categorizations that don't match reality so that we can understand reality better. Period. They're not always right (at least not right off the bat), but they generally move us in a positive direction.
 
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Intel defines pay equity as closing the gap in the average pay between employees of different genders or races and ethnicities, where data is available, in the same or similar roles after accounting for legitimate business factors that can explain differences, such as performance, time at grade level and tenure.
lol at all the butt hurt people. Did anybody even read Intels statement? They literally state the argument used to debunk the gender pay gap. The only thing Intel has done is conduct a study verifying what we already knew, that after accounting for legitimate business factors that can explain differences there's not much of a difference.
They're basically getting free brownie points for doing nothing.
 
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